139 réponses à ce sujet

[Kileyan]

freche wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

freche wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

I think this will work for mages

i. long cooldown on spells
ii. mana cost high on spells
iii. staff or weapon deal more damage

This will control spell spam because players will use weapons and less relying on spells.

Coldowns are the worst crap ever.
Abilities should be limited by resources & deminishing returns
Extreme abilities could completly drain the character and make them unable to regain resources for a short time.

Wouldn't that be the same as a cooldown, exept on top of the mandatory cooldown, you coudn't even drink a mana potion or use a mana recharge aura and continue casting the less extreme spells?

You answered it yourself, it's not the same as a cooldown.

I think you are I are on the same page. I'm just working within what I think Bioware might implement. Cooldowns are not just easiest to implement on their side, but Bioware is also coming at this from the angle of making the game accessible to "people who do not play rpgs" line of marketing. Diminishing returns and trade offs in defense for using a power repeatedly is likely more than they want to cover in a tutorial.

I do like your ideas though.

I'm still hoping for magic to define itself as being more than just another dps mechanism, the allure to magic to me was always variety, I could change battle with curses and crowd control, not just by blowing stuff up. Then again, that is also problematic, that is harder to explain to a player than showing them big fireballs and lightning storms.

[HurricaneGinger]

I'd love for my mage to be able to teleport accross the battlefield to get away from danger. It's an alternative to "Mind Blast", but it is also an adaptation of the Rogue talent "Back to Back" if the mage should wish to aid an ally. 

I would also like to see more melee attacks for a mage besides just hitting the opponent with their staff; perhaps some punching or kicking. Or even hitting an enemy or sweeping them off their feet as the mage runs past. And more animation variety would be nice - like this. I did love the mage animations in DA2, it made the class faster and a lot more graceful. And the simple twiddle of fingers on the staff was a nice touch.

[Kileyan]

Nizaris1 wrote...

What funny in DA2 is we and companion Mage cannot teleport, but Rogues and enemy Mages can...

Bioware seemed to think it was important to tell us that the mages are not really teleporting, they are just turning invisible and moving really fast, but your mage still can't do that trick.

So that would lead to another request, if I can do it, the enemy can do it, and visa versa........aside from special encounters.

DAO mostly threw enemies at me that had the powers I do, DA2 had cannon fodder mage enemies that for some reason were totally divorced from the game world and did things our mages couldn't do, while being unable to do most basic mage spells. I never understood why this was done that way.

DA2 made so many strange decisions on all levels, I could never understand what they were trying to accomplish. Enemy mages just being my nitpick at the moment, but why...seriously?

[Blamejudg3s]

do not even know if people still read this forum, but here goes...

dodge mechanic
instant cooldowns for 'basic' attacks (spirit bolt, mighty blow, etc)
movement based combat available for all classes (basically be able to dash from enemy to enemy like the 2H warrior)

more sieges (less spawnwave, just entire groups pushing forward, attacking in different areas, helping out here n there, placing companions to assist in areas, etc)

Blood magic needs some work... summoning (higher level summons have a chance to turn on summoner and be a 'third party' in combat)

Force Mage > Maker's Fist just seems so bad to me...

Cross class classes... Like arcane warrior, but make it more warrior focused, or mage focused, and have the secondary part be subpar (have both options dependent on skill choices)

More field spells that are not focused on damage, but setting up CCC

Weapon balance... Really a GS has less damage than that puny dagger (not including the bonuses from having dex = rogue attack )

More attributes per level, but more things to put them in... separate magic attack and resistance, etc etc this will allow for more diverse character setups, create better balanced characters, and have specialized characters

Be nice to play with friends, not a huge fan of the single player experience.  Even if I play as a mercenary or something in their story.

:innocent:

Modifié par Blamejudg3s, 19 décembre 2012 - 03:40 .

[mickey111]

freche wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

freche wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

I think this will work for mages

i. long cooldown on spells
ii. mana cost high on spells
iii. staff or weapon deal more damage

This will control spell spam because players will use weapons and less relying on spells.

Coldowns are the worst crap ever.
Abilities should be limited by resources & deminishing returns
Extreme abilities could completly drain the character and make them unable to regain resources for a short time.

Wouldn't that be the same as a cooldown, exept on top of the mandatory cooldown, you coudn't even drink a mana potion or use a mana recharge aura and continue casting the less extreme spells?

You answered it yourself, it's not the same as a cooldown.

The extreme example would be something like a last resort thing, an "Ohh ****" ability. You know your character will be exhausted afterwards but you might turn the tide to your favor.
Just having cooldowns means there will be rotations, you use the best abilites and then drink a potion wait for CD then use them again and again, until the fight is over.

Restricting ability usage by other means then cooldowns will add an extra strategical layer.
Maybe I shield bash 5 times in a row and then I'm so tired that I wont be able to block.
Maybe I cast 5 frost spells in a row the battle area drops in temperature and my frost spells become less effective.
I heal someone 2 times in a row, the second time wont be as effective because their body hasn't had time to fully recover from the first heal.

You see where I'm going? You are able to spam abilities as long as your stamina/mana pool allows it, but using things too frequently will have repercussions.

But with that said I know the cooldown system is much easier to balance, but it's also MUCH more boring.

Easier to balance by simply setting hard limits to how many uses of particular spells you can have. To this day I haven't found a single RPG where mages are more tactical than in BGII, and that's all because they were required to ration out their magic and not throw it around at will, and also because the mage was much more effective as a support class than a DPS class. Afterall, if you're forced to be so conservative in how you use your magic then why settle for simply damaging 1/2 the best warriors health? It's just that you hit the warrior once, but then it's all over, there is no afterparty to be had or anything.  What if you can temporarily recruit him as an ally through magical means? Or slow/engangle a large portion of the enemy group? Or give all your melee fighters a speed boost and 10-20 additional attacks each? This magic was actually really low level too, so that's just the tip of the iceberg when it came to tactical applications of magic.

Modifié par mickey111, 19 décembre 2012 - 07:40 .

[Nefla]

The only kind of battle system I actually enjoy is an action/reflex/skill based one. I hate mindless button mashing and "press A to win" but I don't like slow, tactical or turn based combat either. I don't play games for the combat though so I don't really care.

[Iosev]

While I enjoy the tactical combat of the Dragon Age series, I personally have no problem if Bioware wanted to go in another direction. I personally would love to see a game utilize action-based combat (e.g., Dark Souls), but meld it with party-based tactics.

I do think that a shift towards a Dark Souls-like combat (e.g., blocking, parrying, dodging, etc.) would mean that you would probably only be in control of your character, but as long as I'm given the ability to manage each companion's combat AI to a certain degree, I wouldn't mind.

With that said, I'm fairly open to changes, so I'm looking forward to hearing about what DA:I will offer.

Modifié par arcelonious, 19 décembre 2012 - 04:59 .

[freche]

arcelonious wrote...

While I enjoy the tactical combat of the Dragon Age series, I personally have no problem if Bioware wanted to go in another direction. I personally would love to see a game utilize action-based combat (e.g., Dark Souls), but meld it with party-based tactics.

I do think that a shift towards a Dark Souls-like combat (e.g., blocking, parrying, dodging, etc.) would mean that you would probably only be in control of your character, but as long as I'm given the ability to manage each companion's combat AI to a certain degree, I wouldn't mind.

With that said, I'm fairly open to changes, so I'm looking forward to hearing about what DA:I will offer.

They would have to improve the AI a thousandfold for that to work. Current level of NPC intelligence equalls a braindead monkey (even with decent tactics).

[Jennifer Waits]

As long as they keep up this new, fast paced styled of combat I'm happy. Nothing was worse than trying to play a 2 handed warrior in DA:O because it was so painfully slow and boring.

[Rawgrim]

PhantomGinger wrote...

I'd love for my mage to be able to teleport accross the battlefield to get away from danger. It's an alternative to "Mind Blast", but it is also an adaptation of the Rogue talent "Back to Back" if the mage should wish to aid an ally. 

I would also like to see more melee attacks for a mage besides just hitting the opponent with their staff; perhaps some punching or kicking. Or even hitting an enemy or sweeping them off their feet as the mage runs past. And more animation variety would be nice - like this. I did love the mage animations in DA2, it made the class faster and a lot more graceful. And the simple twiddle of fingers on the staff was a nice touch.

If you can teleport across the battlefield, that will open up a huge can of worms everytime the mage can`t teleport across a chasm or whatever in non combat situations. It would end up being lore-breaking and whatsnot.

[Medhia Nox]

@Rawgrim: Though if you really want to nitpick - the Shapechanger tree "should" give you the ability to turn into a bird.

[Medhia Nox]

@Nazaris1: That's cool - cause I totally said nothing about dragons.

[Bfler]

Jennifer Waits wrote...

As long as they keep up this new, fast paced styled of combat I'm happy. Nothing was worse than trying to play a 2 handed warrior in DA:O because it was so painfully slow and boring.

Have you ever played games like Neverwinter Nights?

[bloodmage13]

1.) better enemies would make combat more interesting. DA 3 should have another type of brood mother. I would also like to see enemy shapeshifters and giants.
2.) quality and quantity. DA 3 should stop doubt waves of enemies and should focus on making enemy AI better.

[BrodbeckChris]

I really like the combat in both DA games.

The only thing I would implement is follow-up commands.

It would be great to be able to set up things like:

"Archer, go here THEN activate aim, THEN hit target X with Arrow of Slaying, THEN keep attacking target Y."

There could even be a timed attacks, stretching threwout your whole party.

For example, when the mage hits target X with attack 1, the warrior goes in and strikes with attack 2 etc etc.

[XX-Pyro]

Agreed with above poster. Creating queues for combat abilities would be wonderful. Also, no cooldowns on spells please. Just make a negative side effect of spamming the same one, such as increased mana cost or something.

[Kajagoogoo3]

 I might get flamed but I actually enjoyed the combat in DA2. What I think could be improved is to give us more specializations. We only had 3 in DA2 where as we had about 4 in Origins.

[AstraDrakkar]

I really didn't have any problem with the combat either. I play the DA games primarily for the story though.

[freche]

What I hope their biggest focus for improvement will be, is AI, pathing and friendly fire.

Started a new DA2 play through on Nightmare and halfway through Act1 I just lowered to Hard, not because I had trouble with the enemies, but because my companions would always think it's a good idea to run straight through the melee fighters, passing by me just as I'm preparing to use assault and they instantly die.

Fast paced combat is fine but not when the companions are retarded and die in 0.2 seconds from friendly fire.

In melee, I doubt even if I use an ability that I would deliberately hit a friend. So even if we are close to each other in melee there should just be a small chance for friendly fire (like a fumble).

For AoE attacks the AI must learn how to strategically place it to hit enemies and not friends.

[Installation17]

Weapon combos (not too long)
Spell combos again (Storm of the Century was the sh*t)
Spears, not staves with funky blades, spears.
More complex tactics options.
Toggle between manual aim and auto-target for ranged weapons.
A Tiger.