211 réponses à ce sujet

[LinksOcarina]

AresKeith wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

My biggest problem is that she's the worst Prothean expert ever.

Explain.

You have Javik right?

Yeah, and?

Oh, the fact that the Prothean history was ultiamtely a lie? 

Well, thats history for you. I thought that was brilliant because it shows the fallacy of historical study without a smoking gun. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 17 décembre 2012 - 05:17 .

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

My biggest problem is that she's the worst Prothean expert ever.

Explain.

You have Javik right?

So Laira was sappose to know every deal about the protheans even thought the reapers made sure to leave as little info on them as possible?

Which is why she shouldn't call herself a Prothean expert


And its Liara not Laira

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

http://masseffect.wi...0_BCE_-_1_CE.29

Ok, so it's about more then 2000 worth of info, but that still means it's massive any way.

And you think the Shadow Broker is going to have almost 30000 years worth of information that won't be useful to anyone?

[LinksOcarina]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

My biggest problem is that she's the worst Prothean expert ever.

Explain.

You have Javik right?

So Laira was sappose to know every deal about the protheans even thought the reapers made sure to leave as little info on them as possible?

Which is why she shouldn't call herself a Prothean expert


And its Liara not Laira

I don't want to derail this too much, so you can PM the answer to this question if you like.

What year did Rome fall? 

[AresKeith]

LinksOcarina wrote...

I don't want to derail this too much, so you can PM the answer to this question if you like.

What year did Rome fall? 

What does that have to do with anything?

[Daxamite]

UrgentArchengel wrote...
That, and the writers didn't do much with her on the SB front.

in fact its almost entirely redundant. Her most important contribution is to uncover the Crucible plans in the archives. That relies on her expertise on protheans. She does use SB resources to help refugees etc, but its fairly minor stuff in the background. 

At the end of LOTSB, she hints that the Yahg shadow broker was looking at the Protheans because he believed they still had something in their legacy left to fight the Reapers, and Shepherd is confused as he says they have already used the Beacons and also Vigil and the Conduit on Ilos. I dont think they even mention that this led Liara to go to the archives. She just goes there because of her own research and because Hackett asks her. 

[3DandBeyond]

Steelcan wrote...

That's one example. Now please tell me how she wouldn't know about everything else in the galaxy. Sanctuary, Turian bomb, beacon, geth/Quarian war, females on Sur'Kesh,

Seeing as the Shadow Broker has all that secret info about galactic leaders and politics that you can earn money from in ME2, it makes no sense that this stuff just slips through.

The info on the Quarians that is in the Spectre office would be known to her, so she'd be investigating it.  The other stuff as well.  More dumbed down characters-why am I not surprised.  Especially since Liara had no idea what Shepard was doing on Mars.  Liara: Hmm, this might be something big that could destroy the reapers.  Liara to Shepard:  Why are you here?  Shepard:  Oh, I don't know something about a big weapon that could destroy reapers.  Something really unimportant.

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

http://masseffect.wi...0_BCE_-_1_CE.29

Ok, so it's about more then 2000 worth of info, but that still means it's massive any way.

And you think the Shadow Broker is going to have almost 30000 years worth of information that won't be useful to anyone?

1. The link is to the start ofthe council era.
2.The issue is not about the info the sb has. Theissue is about going through that info.

Do you really think someone is going to go through over 2000's worth of info in just 6 months?And that most of the info get destroyed because of cerberus.

[LinksOcarina]

AresKeith wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

I don't want to derail this too much, so you can PM the answer to this question if you like.

What year did Rome fall? 

What does that have to do with anything?

humor me for a moment and I will explain how it ties in.

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

That's one example. Now please tell me how she wouldn't know about everything else in the galaxy. Sanctuary, Turian bomb, beacon, geth/Quarian war, females on Sur'Kesh,

Seeing as the Shadow Broker has all that secret info about galactic leaders and politics that you can earn money from in ME2, it makes no sense that this stuff just slips through.

The info on the Quarians that is in the Spectre office would be known to her, so she'd be investigating it.  The other stuff as well.  More dumbed down characters-why am I not surprised.  Especially since Liara had no idea what Shepard was doing on Mars.  Liara: Hmm, this might be something big that could destroy the reapers.  Liara to Shepard:  Why are you here?  Shepard:  Oh, I don't know something about a big weapon that could destroy reapers.  Something really unimportant.

3d, if you have a dictionary,do you know every word and defination in that dictionary?

[AresKeith]

LinksOcarina wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

I don't want to derail this too much, so you can PM the answer to this question if you like.

What year did Rome fall? 

What does that have to do with anything?

humor me for a moment and I will explain how it ties in.

476 AD I think

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

My biggest problem is that she's the worst Prothean expert ever.

Explain.

You have Javik right?

So Laira was sappose to know every deal about the protheans even thought the reapers made sure to leave as little info on them as possible?

Which is why she shouldn't call herself a Prothean expert


And its Liara not Laira

That doesn't mean she is not a prothean expert.  We can't fault her for info she could not of gotten.

[DirtySHISN0]

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

That's one example. Now please tell me how she wouldn't know about everything else in the galaxy. Sanctuary, Turian bomb, beacon, geth/Quarian war, females on Sur'Kesh,

Seeing as the Shadow Broker has all that secret info about galactic leaders and politics that you can earn money from in ME2, it makes no sense that this stuff just slips through.

The info on the Quarians that is in the Spectre office would be known to her, so she'd be investigating it.  The other stuff as well.  More dumbed down characters-why am I not surprised.  Especially since Liara had no idea what Shepard was doing on Mars.  Liara: Hmm, this might be something big that could destroy the reapers.  Liara to Shepard:  Why are you here?  Shepard:  Oh, I don't know something about a big weapon that could destroy reapers.  Something really unimportant.

3d, if you have a dictionary,do you know every word and defination in that dictionary?

I'd imagine s/he knows how to look something up when s/he needs to.

*cough ****** liara cough*

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 17 décembre 2012 - 05:28 .

[dreman9999]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

That's one example. Now please tell me how she wouldn't know about everything else in the galaxy. Sanctuary, Turian bomb, beacon, geth/Quarian war, females on Sur'Kesh,

Seeing as the Shadow Broker has all that secret info about galactic leaders and politics that you can earn money from in ME2, it makes no sense that this stuff just slips through.

The info on the Quarians that is in the Spectre office would be known to her, so she'd be investigating it.  The other stuff as well.  More dumbed down characters-why am I not surprised.  Especially since Liara had no idea what Shepard was doing on Mars.  Liara: Hmm, this might be something big that could destroy the reapers.  Liara to Shepard:  Why are you here?  Shepard:  Oh, I don't know something about a big weapon that could destroy reapers.  Something really unimportant.

3d, if you have a dictionary,do you know every word and defination in that dictionary?

I'd imagine s/he knows how to look something up when s/he needs to.

*cough ****** liara cough*

In order to look up something one must have the draw of curiousity to do so. If her intrest is to finding a way to stop the reapers, why would she ever want to  looking into what the turian did tothe krogans as a result of the end of the krogan rebellions.

Just because youhave an index does nto mean you know everything in the book.

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

My biggest problem is that she's the worst Prothean expert ever.

Explain.

You have Javik right?

So Laira was sappose to know every deal about the protheans even thought the reapers made sure to leave as little info on them as possible?

Which is why she shouldn't call herself a Prothean expert


And its Liara not Laira

That doesn't mean she is not a prothean expert.  We can't fault her for info she could not of gotten.

Who said I fault her for it

I say that about everyone who calls themself an expect on history like that

My reasons for Liara not being a good SB is different from others here

[3DandBeyond]

LinksOcarina wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

My biggest problem is that she's the worst Prothean expert ever.

Explain.

Well, nothing that is "known" about the Protheans is right.  Liara doesn't just catalog information that she's obtained, she assumes things about the Protheans.  She sees them as much like the Asari, rather peaceful and uniting figures.  This indicates a kind of misunderstanding about the Asari too, since they seem often to appear to be above everyone else in their opinion. 

Liara is almost totally wrong about everything she assumes the Protheans to be.  They are despotic, slavers, conquerors, murderers, and basically not really a wonderful race of people.  They uplift races to join and to fight for them, using them as fodder in many cases.  Liara worships them as if they are Gods, but Javik indicates they have a disdain for the races they ultimately uplift.  Javik belittles the idea of honor, but they did one honorable thing-in the wake of the reaper invasion, they stopped atttempts to uplift humans and other lesser races, hoping they'd be too primitive for the reapers.

The confrontation between Liara and Javik bears out a lot of her misunderstanding as does the Thessia mission if you bring both of them along.  Almost nothing that was thought to be of Prothean design, is actually Prothean and she's the foremost expert on them.

Now, I know it isn't easy to dig in the dirt and fully understand a culture-you get hints and glimpses, but she asserts a lot of things as true and she asserts a lot of that stuff dug up is Prothean when it isn't.  She also puts way to much faith in the Protheans to solve the problem when they succumbed to the reapers and had a real chance to survive.  They fought amongst themselves and even tried to appease the reapers in some cases by sacrificing their children to the reapers (one group did this).  Sounds kind of familiar, by the way.  Sending someone basically who's innocent to die to save the masses.  Hmmmmm.

[3DandBeyond]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

That's one example. Now please tell me how she wouldn't know about everything else in the galaxy. Sanctuary, Turian bomb, beacon, geth/Quarian war, females on Sur'Kesh,

Seeing as the Shadow Broker has all that secret info about galactic leaders and politics that you can earn money from in ME2, it makes no sense that this stuff just slips through.

The info on the Quarians that is in the Spectre office would be known to her, so she'd be investigating it.  The other stuff as well.  More dumbed down characters-why am I not surprised.  Especially since Liara had no idea what Shepard was doing on Mars.  Liara: Hmm, this might be something big that could destroy the reapers.  Liara to Shepard:  Why are you here?  Shepard:  Oh, I don't know something about a big weapon that could destroy reapers.  Something really unimportant.

3d, if you have a dictionary,do you know every word and defination in that dictionary?

I'd imagine s/he knows how to look something up when s/he needs to.

*cough ****** liara cough*

Yeah, if I have a dictionary I don't have to know every word or definition in it.  That's why it exists, for me to use to look that stuff up.  All Liara has to do is ask Glyph for any new relevant information on TIM's whereabouts.  If the info exists, Glyph is the "dictionary" that will give her access to it.

Or say, Glyph might have any info needed that could be an impediment or that presents a new problem to resolving conflict between Turians and Krogan.  That's what Glyph is for.  He's the interface or search engine to be used.

I seriously cannot believe dremann asked that question.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 17 décembre 2012 - 05:41 .

[AresKeith]

@3D, he's Dreman

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

That's one example. Now please tell me how she wouldn't know about everything else in the galaxy. Sanctuary, Turian bomb, beacon, geth/Quarian war, females on Sur'Kesh,

Seeing as the Shadow Broker has all that secret info about galactic leaders and politics that you can earn money from in ME2, it makes no sense that this stuff just slips through.

The info on the Quarians that is in the Spectre office would be known to her, so she'd be investigating it.  The other stuff as well.  More dumbed down characters-why am I not surprised.  Especially since Liara had no idea what Shepard was doing on Mars.  Liara: Hmm, this might be something big that could destroy the reapers.  Liara to Shepard:  Why are you here?  Shepard:  Oh, I don't know something about a big weapon that could destroy reapers.  Something really unimportant.

3d, if you have a dictionary,do you know every word and defination in that dictionary?

I'd imagine s/he knows how to look something up when s/he needs to.

*cough ****** liara cough*

Yeah, if I have a dictionary I don't have to know every word or definition in it.  That's why it exists, for me to use to look that stuff up.  All Liara has to do is ask Glyph for any new relevant information on TIM's whereabouts.  If the info exists, Glyph is the "dictionary" that will give her access to it.

Or say, Glyph might have any info needed that could be an impediment or that presents a new problem to resolving conflict between Turians and Krogan.  That's what Glyph is for.

I seriously cannot believe dremann asked that question.

In order to look up something one must have the draw of curiousity to do so. If her intrest is to finding a way to stop the reapers, why would she ever want to  looking into what the turian did tothe krogans as a result of the end of the krogan rebellions.

Just because youhave an index does not mean you know everything in the book.

I  seriously cannot believe you can't comprehend that.

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

@3D, he's Dreman

You're seriously saying someoneis going to look up information they have no questions or intrest about just because?

[Barquiel]

3DandBeyond wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

My biggest problem is that she's the worst Prothean expert ever.

Explain.

Well, nothing that is "known" about the Protheans is right.  Liara doesn't just catalog information that she's obtained, she assumes things about the Protheans.  She sees them as much like the Asari, rather peaceful and uniting figures.  This indicates a kind of misunderstanding about the Asari too, since they seem often to appear to be above everyone else in their opinion. 

Liara is almost totally wrong about everything she assumes the Protheans to be.  They are despotic, slavers, conquerors, murderers, and basically not really a wonderful race of people.  They uplift races to join and to fight for them, using them as fodder in many cases.  Liara worships them as if they are Gods, but Javik indicates they have a disdain for the races they ultimately uplift.  Javik belittles the idea of honor, but they did one honorable thing-in the wake of the reaper invasion, they stopped atttempts to uplift humans and other lesser races, hoping they'd be too primitive for the reapers.

The confrontation between Liara and Javik bears out a lot of her misunderstanding as does the Thessia mission if you bring both of them along.  Almost nothing that was thought to be of Prothean design, is actually Prothean and she's the foremost expert on them.

Now, I know it isn't easy to dig in the dirt and fully understand a culture-you get hints and glimpses, but she asserts a lot of things as true and she asserts a lot of that stuff dug up is Prothean when it isn't.  She also puts way to much faith in the Protheans to solve the problem when they succumbed to the reapers and had a real chance to survive.  They fought amongst themselves and even tried to appease the reapers in some cases by sacrificing their children to the reapers (one group did this).  Sounds kind of familiar, by the way.  Sending someone basically who's innocent to die to save the masses.  Hmmmmm.

You're right, she is wrong about prothean culture. But she discovered the extinction cycle all on her own (and gets laughed at). That alone is astounding. She also knows that the protheans didn't build the citadel and the relays. Liara was obviously closer to the truth than other prothean experts in our cycle.

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

My biggest problem is that she's the worst Prothean expert ever.

Explain.

Well, nothing that is "known" about the Protheans is right.  Liara doesn't just catalog information that she's obtained, she assumes things about the Protheans.  She sees them as much like the Asari, rather peaceful and uniting figures.  This indicates a kind of misunderstanding about the Asari too, since they seem often to appear to be above everyone else in their opinion. 

Liara is almost totally wrong about everything she assumes the Protheans to be.  They are despotic, slavers, conquerors, murderers, and basically not really a wonderful race of people.  They uplift races to join and to fight for them, using them as fodder in many cases.  Liara worships them as if they are Gods, but Javik indicates they have a disdain for the races they ultimately uplift.  Javik belittles the idea of honor, but they did one honorable thing-in the wake of the reaper invasion, they stopped atttempts to uplift humans and other lesser races, hoping they'd be too primitive for the reapers.

The confrontation between Liara and Javik bears out a lot of her misunderstanding as does the Thessia mission if you bring both of them along.  Almost nothing that was thought to be of Prothean design, is actually Prothean and she's the foremost expert on them.

Now, I know it isn't easy to dig in the dirt and fully understand a culture-you get hints and glimpses, but she asserts a lot of things as true and she asserts a lot of that stuff dug up is Prothean when it isn't.  She also puts way to much faith in the Protheans to solve the problem when they succumbed to the reapers and had a real chance to survive.  They fought amongst themselves and even tried to appease the reapers in some cases by sacrificing their children to the reapers (one group did this).  Sounds kind of familiar, by the way.  Sending someone basically who's innocent to die to save the masses.  Hmmmmm.

You do realise that a good protion of what Liara thinks about the protheans is because of her teachers and what is generally thought and know a them?

It not just Liara who it wrong but every person who studied and learned about them. It a case of people filling the holes with what they belive when studing something that has a lot of gaps of infomation in it. All studies of past  events and sociaties do this.

Added, your forgetthe fact here that see did find something from the protheans to stop the reapers.

Modifié par dreman9999, 17 décembre 2012 - 05:49 .

[3DandBeyond]

dreman9999 wrote...
That doesn't mean she is not a prothean expert.  We can't fault her for info she could not of gotten.

You can't call yourself an expert on something and then claim that because there was no information on the topic available you couldn't know anything about it.  That means that no one could be an expert.

I could claim I'm an expert on talking cows.  I am the de facto, certified expert on English speaking cows.  Oh, so what if there's no information that they actually exist.  I am the expert.  I'd need medication if that was the case.

Experts also would be able to examine things and say that something does not fit in with the other things that a bygone era created.  Since the reapers do always remove or get rid of signs of previous civilizations before they leave, it's kind of a mess of an idea to think that very much at all would be known about the Protheans.  It also calls into question the sudden expansion in the size and number of newly discovered Prothean knowledge and sites.  Mars suddenly has archives.  And TIM apparently has more knowledge of what's inside and again is quicker to act upon it than anyone else, including the expert who is again wrong, because the crucible is not a Prothean device at all.  Who knows who created it?

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

@3D, he's Dreman

You're seriously saying someoneis going to look up information they have no questions or intrest about just because?

She was comparing Glyph to a dictionary

[3DandBeyond]

Barquiel wrote...


You're right, she is wrong about prothean culture. But she discovered the extinction cycle all on her own (and gets laughed at). That alone is astounding. She also knows that the protheans didn't build the citadel and the relays. Liara was obviously closer to the truth than other prothean experts in our cycle.

Except she didn't.  In the codex there are entries about other civilizations that were wiped out and indications of horrific events that happened (cycles of extinction).  That's the problem with the Asari, that they often don't want to know what they know.  Remember, they had the VI hidden in the temple.  It's just as likely they knew about the cycles and were ignoring them.  They hid the VI to learn from it in order to know more than the other races, it seems.