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The fanbase will ultimately determine whether or not Shepard will be in ME4


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#76
Ironhandjustice

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Sauruz wrote...

Ironhandjustice wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

chidingewe8036 wrote...

all I am saying is if they decided to bring him back in an epic way, in such a way, the teaser trailer could be amazing and ME3 would be a distant memory. A brand new story or "fresh start" would be kinda meh after the way ME3 was recieved by many. Bringing Shep. back would kinda be Bioware's way of saying "we f ed up, we are sorry, lets give it one more go and this time go out with a bang"

call it fan service if you want but so be it..........then and only then can they "start fresh"

I get it. You just want to get some real closure on Shepard's story.
If Bioware wanted to give us closure they would have done so in EC.


Mmmmm... no.

Limited money, limited time, many angry fans trying to kill them. Perhaps they have only bought time with EC. When they say "no more DLC" I will start to believe they are done. Meanwhile, I'll be working on the MEHEM with the other guys :whistle:

Wait, why would you be working on MEHEM if you're expecting Bioware to make more ending content? I mean, why would you work to create a proper ending if you think Bioware will eventually make a proper ending, anyway? That's like two completely opposite sides on a spectrum.


Because I'm an extremist guy :devil:

The intelligent bioware would fix this mess, the artistic bioware will embrace their artistic integrity. There is a chance that they don't fix the endings, so I'll have a backup. MrFob did an awesome work, and my intention is help him. Is too much work for a single man.

And, bye the way, if they see that the MEHEM is accepted by the community as canon ending, perhaps they change their mind and make it official. For me, it would be an honor, even if not mentioned ;)

Did you know that Half Life: Counter strike was a Mod of Half Life, completely fan made?

The things change when people unite. Perhaps I achieve nothing, but.. what the hell, sheppard would have done the same for me!

#77
chidingewe8036

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Sauruz wrote...

chidingewe8036 wrote...

Control, Synthesis, and Refuse are "what if" endings Destroy is the only ending that could bring Shepard back for another round. The other endings are "Shepard aint coming back and its over" type endings.

Yes, Destroy is arguably the only ending where Shepard potentially lives. That doesn't make it any more or less canon than the other endings. Moot point is moot.


Destroy gives a sense of hope to the player, Shepard's allies and friends, etc.

Umm... what?
Destroy doesn't have hope. The Reapers are dead. Celebrations are in order. Or mourning if you really miss the Geth. What is there to hope for?
Refuse is a hopeful ending. There is hope, that somehow, eventually, the Reapers were defeated, possibly without using the Crucible. Well, that is unless you just assume the worst possible scenario.
Destroy on the other hand is a closed story, save for the ambiguity of Shepard's life.


Refuse = worst possible ending, everything and everyone dies

Control = TIM's solution, What the second BAD GUY of the trilogy wanted

Synthesis = Saren's solution, What the first BAD GUY of the trilogy wanted

Destroy = What Shepard and The Galaxy were freakin fighting for all three games...........no one wanted to Control, understand or join with the reapers accept the BAD GUYS.

Normally the HERO'S solution is the canon solution

and YES IT IS THAT BLACK AND WHITE...........it should have been that easy instead Bioware gave us some BS ending that was obviously thought about to much by it's creators.

#78
chidingewe8036

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CastonFolarus wrote...

Umm...no. Bioware will do what Bioware thinks is best, regardless of fanbase wants. They will, however, take some EA deadlines, of course.


Bioware will do what Bioware thinks is best, regardless of fanbase wants????? Then their sales will reflect this which will effect it's creators and this particular franchise.

#79
3DandBeyond

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chidingewe8036 wrote...

If the fanbase remains divided on this topic the result will be a mediocre game, with mediocre reviews, mediocre profit, a mediocre story, and a mediocre following.

1) Some want Shepard back
2) Some want ME4 to be a prequel
3) Some want ME4 to be set millions of years in the future or whatever that is all about
4) Some want to play as Liara, Wrex, and Thane's races ummmmm ok whatever
5) Some don't give a crap anymore
6) and some seem as though they want a brand new look to Mass Effect

as long as this remains the issue Bioware will do whatever they want to do and deliver some half arsed forced trilogy with the Mass Effect title slapped on it that will dissolve into mediocrity, not a really good starting point for the next game.

I am just one voice but I really hope for all of our sakes that the Mass Effect fanbase and Bioware themeselves thread carefully with this one, we don't want a repeat ME3. ME3 has more flaws than it has good qualities and if they are not addressed by it's creators the next game will be MEDIOCRE at best.

What is that Garrus said? Yell loud enough and............well if you played the game you know the rest Posted Image


Well, good luck.  The fanbase was pretty coherent and mostly agreed on things (900 plus pages in the We Are Listening stickied thread of people mostly agreeing on major points) with the original endings and we got the EC.  The EC did essentially nothing but attempt to make the endings feel better.  They added a few things that to me are pretty much meaningless because the endings are basically the same with a bit more chit chat from the kid.  And they retconned a lot of what they said was meant to happen, still not fixing one major flaw in all that retconning (ruptured mass relay in Destroy ending that should screw the Sol system).  They added "happy" effects, muted down the straight up RGB effect (though in the files the endings are called red, green, blue) and added in some things to make it seem better.  But the endings are the same things as they originally were.

In fact, there's been a lot of cohesiveness and agreement on things that has been straight up ignored, so I'm sorry but thinking that even trying to do so now is a lost cause.  I know, I tried it.  I asked everyone to consider compromise and to try to work together to get everyone back to the same point-fans would consider paying for optional DLC to fix their game and make their desire for any additional DLC more likely.  Bioware would consider looking at the debacle with new eyes and try and put all the hurt and anger in the past.  Fans that like their endings would not protest or throw fits if Bioware decided to appease others that want something different. 

For this, I got called selfish and all kinds of names.  Some of the most idiotic things I've ever heard on this forum were said-things I consider idiotic.  It was said people would hate that because if it was a happier ending (not sappy happy, not Disney, not bunnies and rainbows) it would become canon because too many people would want it (hmm, in most businesses this means money and if true it means that people do not like what they now have). 

Or, some said they wouldn't buy it, and wouldn't want it made, because it would ruin their own game just because it exists, even if they never saw it-that one makes real sense to me (not).  Some talked themselves into circles and ended up agreeing with me, but could not admit it so they left and came back to start up a different line of protest.  Some who even had threads where they made suggestions to Bioware for DLC, said that it was wrong for me to ask because Bioware does not take suggestions.  I can't deal with this level of irrationality.  It's not my reality.  In my world, people make sense.  Trust me, if I were happy with these endings, and others were not, I'd want them to have what they'd like as well.  If I'm having fun, I want it to be shared by others.  But some people are actually not very nice people in my book and have no idea how selfish they appear to be nor how irrational.  And the majority of the people in the thread, agreed with me.

I give kudos to the idea of actually trying to form a consensus and to try and get people to work together, but no matter what you do even if everyone is united behind one idea (not ever going to happen because people like different things), Bioware will ultimately do what they have most likely already made up their minds to do.  They are giving you the illusion of choice, but you have no choice here.  You have no impact.  In fact, if you say you would really like A and B to happen, but please never do C and D, you will get C and D.  They seem to really have a very poor ability to understand the things they have "listened" to. 

You must understand that big companies like EA hire people to determine what customers will like.  And they look at where the money is in the industry.  They erroneously think that other than Sports games what will sell well into the future are FPSs that are light on story and heavy on "action".  And the fact that Montreal will be making ME4 does not give me any hope.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 17 décembre 2012 - 03:19 .


#80
mcgreggers99

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Refuse = worst possible ending, everything and everyone dies

Control = TIM's solution, What the second BAD GUY of the trilogy wanted

Synthesis = Saren's solution, What the first BAD GUY of the trilogy wanted

Destroy = What Shepard and The Galaxy were freakin fighting for all three games...........no one wanted to Control, understand or join with the reapers accept the BAD GUYS.

Normally the HERO'S solution is the canon solution

and YES IT IS THAT BLACK AND WHITE...........it should have been that easy instead Bioware gave us some BS ending that was obviously thought about to much by it's creators.


I think it was a ballsy move because we didn't get the happy-go-lucky unicorns eating cake while farting rainbows ending.

They went for "artistic" and it didn't quite work. It blew up in their faces. Heck I've finished the game with different saves for all 4 endings, and I still can't decide which one is "my" canon ending. I call that a success. There are positives and negatives to each ending, it's pretty amazing that no one ending is perfect. I think that's the best part about how this series ends. War is ugly, there are always casualties.

Modifié par mcgreggers99, 17 décembre 2012 - 03:21 .


#81
Pedrak

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I'd argue that the laziness of Priority Earth, which I was anticipating as a series of epic battles featuring the different forces I had collected and turned out to be just running around a destroyed city, ultimately hurts the overall quality of ME3 a lot more than the endings - once those have been improved with the EC, that is.

#82
crimzontearz

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mcgreggers99 wrote...



Refuse = worst possible ending, everything and everyone dies

Control = TIM's solution, What the second BAD GUY of the trilogy wanted

Synthesis = Saren's solution, What the first BAD GUY of the trilogy wanted

Destroy = What Shepard and The Galaxy were freakin fighting for all three games...........no one wanted to Control, understand or join with the reapers accept the BAD GUYS.

Normally the HERO'S solution is the canon solution

and YES IT IS THAT BLACK AND WHITE...........it should have been that easy instead Bioware gave us some BS ending that was obviously thought about to much by it's creators.


I think it was a ballsy move because we didn't get the happy-go-lucky unicorns eating cake while farting rainbows ending.

They went for "artistic" and it didn't quite work. It blew up in their faces. Heck I've finished the game with different saves for all 4 endings, and I still can't decide which one is "my" canon ending. I call that a success. There are positives and negatives to each ending, it's pretty amazing that no one ending is perfect. I think that's the best part about how this series ends. War is ugly, there are always casualties.

what about the people who simply want a definitive answer about one ending? Seriously, I juat wanted a CLEAR confirmation of Shepard's survival and reunion.

For that I will GLADLY sacrifice EDI, legion, the quarians, the geth, Earth, half the Normandy's crew including joker and Garrus.


 
Is that ugly enough? Does it need more casualties? 'cause I can throw in the Krogan too...and the Hanar....

#83
N7 Lisbeth

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I've said it before and I'll say it again.

If Mass Effect 4 isn't a sequel, and if it doesn't let me play Shepard, then I will not buy it. I guarantee you Bioware will alienate their fanbase even further by forcing the issue of Shepard's removal. They'd be braindead to think otherwise.

Don't do it, BW. Well, unless you want to tank the entire franchise and never make back what you're certain to spend to make ME4 and never get it back in sales.

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 17 décembre 2012 - 03:31 .


#84
chidingewe8036

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mcgreggers99 wrote...



Refuse = worst possible ending, everything and everyone dies

Control = TIM's solution, What the second BAD GUY of the trilogy wanted

Synthesis = Saren's solution, What the first BAD GUY of the trilogy wanted

Destroy = What Shepard and The Galaxy were freakin fighting for all three games...........no one wanted to Control, understand or join with the reapers accept the BAD GUYS.

Normally the HERO'S solution is the canon solution

and YES IT IS THAT BLACK AND WHITE...........it should have been that easy instead Bioware gave us some BS ending that was obviously thought about to much by it's creators.


I think it was a ballsy move because we didn't get the happy-go-lucky unicorns eating cake while farting rainbows ending.

They went for "artistic" and it didn't quite work. It blew up in their faces. Heck I've finished the game with different saves for all 4 endings, and I still can't decide which one is "my" canon ending. I call that a success. There are positives and negatives to each ending, it's pretty amazing that no one ending is perfect. I think that's the best part about how this series ends. War is ugly, there are always casualties.


There should not have been any underlying message or back thought to this trilogy.......Bioware should have kept it simple GOOD VS. EVIL, LIGHT VS. DARK. None of this scientific logical thought technical babble. GOOD VS. EVIL, LIGHT VS. DARK simple STAR WARS good guys agains the bad guys lets keep it simple folks it still would have been a mind blowing trilogy.

#85
ShadyKat

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Shepard's story is over.
This was the plan since ME1, why can't people get this? Bioware wants a new lead, and in the end they will do what they want.

#86
3DandBeyond

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chidingewe8036 wrote...


Refuse = worst possible ending, everything and everyone dies

Control = TIM's solution, What the second BAD GUY of the trilogy wanted

Synthesis = Saren's solution, What the first BAD GUY of the trilogy wanted

Destroy = What Shepard and The Galaxy were freakin fighting for all three games...........no one wanted to Control, understand or join with the reapers accept the BAD GUYS.

Normally the HERO'S solution is the canon solution

and YES IT IS THAT BLACK AND WHITE...........it should have been that easy instead Bioware gave us some BS ending that was obviously thought about to much by it's creators.


I do agree partly with this but here's the problem.  My Shepard would not agree with either choice.  Not me, metagaming and wanting my Shepard to live, but the Shepard I role played said as much against such things and was very specific about not having the right to decide the fates of others (their destruction) based on flimsy or uncertain information.

I make the case that plain vanilla renegade and plain vanilla paragon Shepards would have problems with all 3 choices, so there's a real case for refuse being the only thing that makes sense.  Not that I'd choose that either.

A renegade would want to know that not only (or specifically) had s/he stopped the reapers, but would care what happens to him/herself.  A renegade is not selfless.  A renegade does things without hesitating, but is concerned with his/her own fate.  Control-dies and seemingly is given awesome power.  No way.  A renegade still would want the joy of having people know s/he wields this power.  And a renegade still would want to enjoy the pleasures of life.  Synthesis, oh great.  Dead and can't enjoy the supposed new found improvements that everyone else does.  No way.  Destroy-again, it's a question of "what happens to me?"  Destroy is so vague and convoluted as to what exactly happens that for the first time ever a renegade might actually want to investigate what the hell it all means.

A paragon is thoughty and would sacrifice it all, but it would have to be the right reason with a foreseeable good outcome.  Control-dies (sure would do this) but then forces people to live with reapers.  No way would a paragon do this, understanding the horror that has been forced upon them already and that living reapers are a reminder of those horrors.  And, there's not enough of an explanation as to whether Shepard still is mostly Shepard, with a conscience and even feelings.  Synthesis-dies (would do so), but there's no good complete explanation for how it's achieved and exactly what happens.  What tech is inserted into every organic thing?  Is it reaper tech?  Where does the full understanding of organics come from that is given to synthetics?  There's just not enough information to make an informed decision.  Destroy-yes, this was always the goal and Shepard would be less concerned as to his/her own fate than that of others.  But, again the explanation for it is terrible so Shepard would not know exactly who will die because of this (who is targeted and would die outright and not collateral damage).  The reapers are destroyed-this is the only good, tangible thing.  But the rest of the description by the kid is garbage.

I fully agree with you that destroying the reapers was always the goal-no rational person in the game ever said that anything else would work or be a good idea, and they had the other choices laid out before them.  Did they want to control them?  No, they were told it might be an option and they rejected it.  Did they want to become synthesized along with the reapers?  No, they discussed the effects of this and they rejected it.  Did they want to get all touchy feely with them and psychoanalyze their motives, trying to understand them?  No, they wanted them destroyed.  Explanations for the reapers and their motives could well have been in an epilog, and could have been well done.  Given as reasons for doing what they want and not even trying to do what you want without concession, is moronic.

#87
Brovikk Rasputin

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t_skwerl wrote...

Seival wrote...

(2) Shepard's story is over. Community has to deal with it.

This.

FFS, Bioware has been telling us this even before ME3 released! Also, Shepard dies in every ending except one. Face the facts for once; Shepard will not return. Get over it.

#88
crimzontearz

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Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

t_skwerl wrote...

Seival wrote...

(2) Shepard's story is over. Community has to deal with it.

This.

FFS, Bioware has been telling us this even before ME3 released! Also, Shepard dies in every ending except one. Face the facts for once; Shepard will not return. Get over it.

I sincerely do not care if he returns or not


 
That is definitely not my concern

#89
mopotter

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Ieldra2 wrote...

I do not want Shepard, or anything of him (or her), in the next game. I want something new.


As do I. 

Shepard was a great ride and I hope they do not do another series like it for many many years.  

New characters, same world - that works just fine.    I wouldn't mind a news story about the hero Shepard helping to re-build earth or Shepard being seen with the LI at a ceremony on some planet, but I don't want to see or hear Shepard ever again, if Shepard even survived which is not true in every game.  And I don't want a prequel.  

#90
chidingewe8036

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[quote]ShadyKat wrote...

Shepard's story is over.
This was the plan since ME1, why can't people get this? Bioware wants a new lead, and in the end they will do what they want.[/quote 

yeah ok sure your right I need to except that.............but sales, following and reviews will walk the walk and talk the talk

#91
Guest_Finn the Jakey_*

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Seival wrote...

(1) ME3 has less flaws than any game ever developed.

Wow.
You have said some ridiculous things on here, but I think this takes the cake.

Do agree with (2) though.

#92
Ticonderoga117

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Shepard went out like a punk. Get over it. BioWare wanted it to happen that way regardless of hell or high water. Now we'll be able to see another character become awesome, and then die like a chump when the chips are down.

#93
3DandBeyond

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mcgreggers99 wrote...



Refuse = worst possible ending, everything and everyone dies

Control = TIM's solution, What the second BAD GUY of the trilogy wanted

Synthesis = Saren's solution, What the first BAD GUY of the trilogy wanted

Destroy = What Shepard and The Galaxy were freakin fighting for all three games...........no one wanted to Control, understand or join with the reapers accept the BAD GUYS.

Normally the HERO'S solution is the canon solution

and YES IT IS THAT BLACK AND WHITE...........it should have been that easy instead Bioware gave us some BS ending that was obviously thought about to much by it's creators.


I think it was a ballsy move because we didn't get the happy-go-lucky unicorns eating cake while farting rainbows ending.

They went for "artistic" and it didn't quite work. It blew up in their faces. Heck I've finished the game with different saves for all 4 endings, and I still can't decide which one is "my" canon ending. I call that a success. There are positives and negatives to each ending, it's pretty amazing that no one ending is perfect. I think that's the best part about how this series ends. War is ugly, there are always casualties.


Ok, I must point out that no ending would have been unicorns eating cake-that's such a flawed and narrow view of the reality of the game and the reality of what people have been talking about all along.  Where are the real consequences of what has happened, including the choices.  Those slides attempt to show the unicorns, but not what people are even talking about for a happier ending.  The galaxy is a mess and should be a mess.  The story, the epilog should have been about everyone coming together to rebuild (much like the Destroy Hackett speech but not so trite).  Billions have died.  There are piles of bodies rotting on the citadel.  Planets are burning.  Colonies destroyed.  Shepard's given up much of life already.  This is not unicorns. 

They went for pseudo-intellectualism and the Emperor's New Clothes in the ending.  They dare anyone to say it isn't smart and cool, because people don't tend to want to appear dumb by saying the ending isn't art and isn't smart. 

It isn't a success when you are not moved enough to be emotionally attached to the fate of all within a story.  The idea that neither ending is complete to you, indicates the story has not ended.  The ending of a story should satisfy-it should validate your emotions.  It should either make you feel sad that things didn't work or make you feel that you've done it.

Oh please.  War is ugly.  Well, sanitized choices to determine the ending of a war that do not even address the goal is just moronic.  Yes, war is ugly, but please point me to the war that Shepard took part in-you know, the one with the reapers.  We got a super stupid whatchamakalit crucible that was created by someone and improved by others, when they had no idea what it was supposed to do (I really don't know how you can improve something when you don't know what it is), and a kid that explains what it's supposed to do.  A kid that contradicts himself, that says he might help you, but says he's been sending reapers to turn everyone into goo throughout many cycles.  He can't be argued with because he's a machine who's super smart as AIs go, but whose just a shackled piece of unfeeling and unalterable hardware that changes because the crucible paid a visit.  He has a solution (reapers) that no longer works, and yet he still uses a non-working solution when it will not fulfill his goal.  Ok, if he's just programmed to do one thing and to never understand the ramifications, he'd not continue to use what does not work.

War is ugly.  Sure is.  But war is ugliest when it amounts to nothing and achieves nothing.  Or if what it achieves is very possibly just as bad as what has already taken place.  War is ugliest if it does not meet the goal and leaves intact the very threat it was meant to get rid of.  It's also ugly when we forget who the heroes are and leave them faceless in a pile of rubble, while we are only too happy to watch the skin fly off their dying faces.  And it's not war if you decide to kill a whole race of people that are your allies simply to end the war.  That's genocide.  None of this is artistic (oh maybe some think the skin flying off dying Shepard's face is), nor is it intelligent.  It's also not original.  This is all derived from the endings of other source material, other peoples' IP.

I ask people that think that some of these endings make sense and that then seem to think they can be equated to real life events, to really start considering real life events, then.  People fight for freedom and die for it because they don't want to be controlled or under someone's control-they'd rather die than have that happen.  And they don't want to let despots who killed their loved ones to live, either.  So, they do fight, no matter how futile because they believe there's a chance to win, always a chance.  People don't want a super race, because in creating a so-called super race, some of the variety (the happy differences in people) would be lost.  The likelihood of becoming extremely similar is all too real.  People don't as a whole think that their survival justifies anything and everything they decide to do.  Someone who kills an innocent just to save his own life is held accountable for that.  In war, real soldiers have been disciplined (imprisoned) for deciding to destroy villages and individuals because they merely thought they might pose a threat or for no reason at all.  And soldiers would never decide to bomb their own squadmates because the enemy says it will stop the war.  Art, what a crock.

#94
chidingewe8036

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yeah Ticonderoga Bioware forgot alot of stuff they did throughout the trilogy like that whole darn conversation with Soverign in ME1 lol.

#95
Brovikk Rasputin

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crimzontearz wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

t_skwerl wrote...

Seival wrote...

(2) Shepard's story is over. Community has to deal with it.

This.

FFS, Bioware has been telling us this even before ME3 released! Also, Shepard dies in every ending except one. Face the facts for once; Shepard will not return. Get over it.

I sincerely do not care if he returns or not


 
That is definitely not my concern

Okay?

#96
3DandBeyond

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crimzontearz wrote...


I sincerely do not care if he returns or not


 
That is definitely not my concern


Nor do I.  However, until they actually end Shepard's story, any new story will seem incredibly hollow.  I'd really just love to see Bioware make one ending canon and watch the reaction of those staunch supporters (it's Bioware's story, deal with it) try to back pedal and retcon all that they've said on here.  It'd be cool to see them make Destroy or even Refuse canon and then see those that think Refuse is just giving up try to deal with that.  Ending haters will take a back seat to beginning haters in hiding.

#97
Ticonderoga117

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3DandBeyond wrote...
Nor do I.  However, until they actually end Shepard's story, any new story will seem incredibly hollow.  I'd really just love to see Bioware make one ending canon and watch the reaction of those staunch supporters (it's Bioware's story, deal with it) try to back pedal and retcon all that they've said on here.  It'd be cool to see them make Destroy or even Refuse canon and then see those that think Refuse is just giving up try to deal with that.  Ending haters will take a back seat to beginning haters in hiding.


I vote refuse. Would love to watch the fireworks from that.

#98
Brovikk Rasputin

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3DandBeyond wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...


I sincerely do not care if he returns or not


 
That is definitely not my concern


Nor do I.  However, until they actually end Shepard's story, any new story will seem incredibly hollow.  I'd really just love to see Bioware make one ending canon and watch the reaction of those staunch supporters (it's Bioware's story, deal with it) try to back pedal and retcon all that they've said on here.  It'd be cool to see them make Destroy or even Refuse canon and then see those that think Refuse is just giving up try to deal with that.  Ending haters will take a back seat to beginning haters in hiding.

They did finish Shepard's story..

#99
crimzontearz

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Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

t_skwerl wrote...

Seival wrote...

(2) Shepard's story is over. Community has to deal with it.

This.

FFS, Bioware has been telling us this even before ME3 released! Also, Shepard dies in every ending except one. Face the facts for once; Shepard will not return. Get over it.

I sincerely do not care if he returns or not


 
That is definitely not my concern

Okay?

my concern is getting definitive closure to my story arc and my ending and making sure Bioware knows that leaving us on BS speculation is not OK going forward

#100
crimzontearz

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Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...


I sincerely do not care if he returns or not


 
That is definitely not my concern


Nor do I.  However, until they actually end Shepard's story, any new story will seem incredibly hollow.  I'd really just love to see Bioware make one ending canon and watch the reaction of those staunch supporters (it's Bioware's story, deal with it) try to back pedal and retcon all that they've said on here.  It'd be cool to see them make Destroy or even Refuse canon and then see those that think Refuse is just giving up try to deal with that.  Ending haters will take a back seat to beginning haters in hiding.

They did finish Shepard's story..

yours maybe, not mine