I was looking at the site today and imagine my suprise when I saw that the expansion can already be pre-ordered. We have not yet had a release of DLC post game release and an expansion can be re-ordered?
Myself and others bout Bioware-Points in an effort to support Dragon Age and buy DLCs as they release. In other words you already have my money and yet nothing for it. My question is we will continue to see DLC post expansion?
Also I am a bit concerned about the price of the expansion. The Dragon Age game which needed a lot more time and cost to produce was sold for on release $49.95. The expansion is listing at $39.95 or only $9 less, 20% than the original game. Now I do not expect the expansion to have the same amount of content as the original, it is after all an expansion. However I would hope that at only 20% less cost we would see nothing below 50% less content. I mean you are really close to the same price so if asking for half the content really that bad?
Yet the number bantered around is 15 hours, or in other words less that 30% of the content in the original game. By some standards it is close to 20%.
So my questions before you are ....
1) Will I see the DLC content I in essence pre-paid for or will I have an option to demand a refund for my Bioware Points?
2) Will this expansion offer more than 15 hours of play time or will we see a price reduction?
I can tell you know that I fear this is EA controlling the whole thing and doing their little bait and switch they are so famous for when it comes to computer gaming. I personally will no longer be buying Bioware Points at least until I know I will actually get something for my money.
As for the expansion if the 15 hours is true then I will quietly put Dragon Age aside and wait for the bargain bins to get the expansion for $20.
What does the expansion mean to DLC?
Débuté par
ComputerEd
, janv. 06 2010 12:38
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#2
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 12:46
rayvioletta
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BioWare comments seem to suggest that they still plan to release RtO as soon as it's ready, and I'd imagine that there will still be further DLC's as well. some will likely require Awakening, depending on exactly what they do, but I'd be surprised if the expansion is instead of DLCs
#3
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:02
Torias
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ComputerEd wrote...
Also I am a bit concerned about the price of the expansion. The Dragon Age game which needed a lot more time and cost to produce was sold for on release $49.95. The expansion is listing at $39.95 or only $9 less, 20% than the original game. Now I do not expect the expansion to have the same amount of content as the original, it is after all an expansion. However I would hope that at only 20% less cost we would see nothing below 50% less content. I mean you are really close to the same price so if asking for half the content really that bad?
Yet the number bantered around is 15 hours, or in other words less that 30% of the content in the original game. By some standards it is close to 20%.
Consider the reverse....
Dragon Age: Origins should have cost more than $50.
They crammed an incredibly large amount of content into the game (looking at modern game lengths, perhaps 3 games worth) and sold it for the cost of one.
They did that to kick start a new franchise....
So they gave us this amazing deal to start the franchise, three games worth of content for the price of one.
Most modern games don't last 15 hours. Awakening for 15 hours and $40 will:
1) add new stuff to Dragon Age: Origins (talents and what not), increasing it's replay value.
2) provide a full game worth of content for 20% less than the price of a full game.
That's a pretty good deal.
It might not be the absolutely astonishingly good value as Origins itself way (three games for the price of one), but one game for the price of 0.8 is still good :-)
Also, they have mentioned that the team working on DLC is seperate from the team working on the expansion, so they shouldn't have an impact on each other.
Modifié par Torias, 06 janvier 2010 - 01:03 .
#4
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:09
supervexi
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Not that I'm any expert or anything but:
In response to question 1) an it's lead-up:
- BioWare has stated since quite a long time before release that they have a roughly two-year DLC life-cycle planned for DA:O.
- Although only recently announced, I doubt that they only recently stated work on DA:A. Therefore, it's announcement should have no effect on the larger planned periodic release of content.
- While an expansion and not a typical DLC (it has it's own subtitle afterall), DA:A is in all probability a part of the greater DA IP content release plan - not in addition to it.
- Your BioWare points will be redeemable in the future for DLC, starting with RtO, followed by whatever else they have up their sleeves for us.
In response to question 2) :
- Expect to pay the $39.99 for a pre-ordered copy. I would not be surprised in the least for it to retail for the full $49.99
- Do not expect to see a price reduction... Unless no one buys it, and they cite the price. In which case, you might see a price reduction for future expansions. But, that will never happen.
- While on the one hand I fully understand the basic idea of a price scheme distributed over the life of an IP (i.e. lower prices up front to suck you in, then higher prices later to make a profit) it does seem that EA is pushing the envelope with this particular price for an expansion. But then, the industry as a whole is attempting to raise PC game prices to something resembling console game prices - 60 bucks a pop. So in that light I suppose it isn't very surprising.
And finally, while I despise many of EA's practices, I love BioWare's games. I, for one, will be willing to shell out to EA in order to enjoy BioWare now, and to help ensure that I can do so in the future.
-supervexi
In response to question 1) an it's lead-up:
- BioWare has stated since quite a long time before release that they have a roughly two-year DLC life-cycle planned for DA:O.
- Although only recently announced, I doubt that they only recently stated work on DA:A. Therefore, it's announcement should have no effect on the larger planned periodic release of content.
- While an expansion and not a typical DLC (it has it's own subtitle afterall), DA:A is in all probability a part of the greater DA IP content release plan - not in addition to it.
- Your BioWare points will be redeemable in the future for DLC, starting with RtO, followed by whatever else they have up their sleeves for us.
In response to question 2) :
- Expect to pay the $39.99 for a pre-ordered copy. I would not be surprised in the least for it to retail for the full $49.99
- Do not expect to see a price reduction... Unless no one buys it, and they cite the price. In which case, you might see a price reduction for future expansions. But, that will never happen.
- While on the one hand I fully understand the basic idea of a price scheme distributed over the life of an IP (i.e. lower prices up front to suck you in, then higher prices later to make a profit) it does seem that EA is pushing the envelope with this particular price for an expansion. But then, the industry as a whole is attempting to raise PC game prices to something resembling console game prices - 60 bucks a pop. So in that light I suppose it isn't very surprising.
And finally, while I despise many of EA's practices, I love BioWare's games. I, for one, will be willing to shell out to EA in order to enjoy BioWare now, and to help ensure that I can do so in the future.
-supervexi
#5
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:10
supervexi
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And as soon as I post, I find much of what I wrote was sheer redundancy to the sage advice and counsel of our moderator.
#6
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:13
Elanareon
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The mod was is right. You are silly if you think that DA:O only costs 50$. We had a bargain and that's it. lol
#7
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:13
Ulous
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a lot of people are talking dollars and tbh you have got it good compared to the UK, in the UK it cost me £40 for my copy of DAO which is the equivelent of about $60-$70, so just consider yourselves lucky you don't live here :-)
#8
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:17
Loerwyn
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I paid £40 (or was it £30 in the Steam sale?) for my Digital Deluxe version of DAO. I'm gonna be paying £40 for Mass Effect 2: Collector's Edition.
$40 is about £30 I think, which is the normal price for a PC game.
$40 is about £30 I think, which is the normal price for a PC game.
#9
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:17
devSin
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What DLC?
OH, SNAP!
OH, SNAP!
Is there anything else you'd like to tickle while you're down there, sir?Torias wrote...
Consider the reverse....
Dragon Age: Origins should have cost more than $50.
They crammed an incredibly large amount of content into the game (looking at modern game lengths, perhaps 3 games worth) and sold it for the cost of one.
#10
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:19
Octane30
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w/e I paid $69.95 at the local gamestop only to find later I over paid according to the walmart price of $39.95 it was going for only 2 blocks away >.<
#11
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:23
Ulous
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all things aside when you compare the price of "any" game to other stuff in life it is good value (unless its an awful game), average of £40 for a new game here, a night on the town and headache the next day can cost a lot more than that and leave you with nothing to show for it :-)
#12
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:24
supervexi
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I think you could say that the bottom line (he-he-he [that's a sarcastic self-depreciating chuckle]) is that computer
video game prices are rising across the board. From Flagship Titles,
to expansions, to DLC (which is still rather new and finding it's
pricing equilibrium).
And Ulous is correct: those in the US have less to complain about as their home market has managed to resist some of the rising prices for entertainment seen throught Europe and Asia. (A ticket to a non-first-run movie cost roughly $18 here in Japan) And on that note, the US consumers ought to get used to the idea of higher-priced games especially with the $ in it's long slow slide in vaule as compared against other currencies.
-supervexi
video game prices are rising across the board. From Flagship Titles,
to expansions, to DLC (which is still rather new and finding it's
pricing equilibrium).
And Ulous is correct: those in the US have less to complain about as their home market has managed to resist some of the rising prices for entertainment seen throught Europe and Asia. (A ticket to a non-first-run movie cost roughly $18 here in Japan) And on that note, the US consumers ought to get used to the idea of higher-priced games especially with the $ in it's long slow slide in vaule as compared against other currencies.
-supervexi
#13
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:28
Raxtoren
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Torias wrote...
ComputerEd wrote...
Also I am a bit concerned about the price of the expansion. The Dragon Age game which needed a lot more time and cost to produce was sold for on release $49.95. The expansion is listing at $39.95 or only $9 less, 20% than the original game. Now I do not expect the expansion to have the same amount of content as the original, it is after all an expansion. However I would hope that at only 20% less cost we would see nothing below 50% less content. I mean you are really close to the same price so if asking for half the content really that bad?
Yet the number bantered around is 15 hours, or in other words less that 30% of the content in the original game. By some standards it is close to 20%.
Consider the reverse....
Dragon Age: Origins should have cost more than $50.
They crammed an incredibly large amount of content into the game (looking at modern game lengths, perhaps 3 games worth) and sold it for the cost of one.
They did that to kick start a new franchise....
So they gave us this amazing deal to start the franchise, three games worth of content for the price of one.
Most modern games don't last 15 hours. Awakening for 15 hours and $40 will:
1) add new stuff to Dragon Age: Origins (talents and what not), increasing it's replay value.
2) provide a full game worth of content for 20% less than the price of a full game.
That's a pretty good deal.
It might not be the absolutely astonishingly good value as Origins itself way (three games for the price of one), but one game for the price of 0.8 is still good :-)
Also, they have mentioned that the team working on DLC is seperate from the team working on the expansion, so they shouldn't have an impact on each other.
Your logic is retarded.
Nobody would buy a 15 hour rpg.
Oblivion would have sucked, Final Fantasy would have sucked.
Don't compare action or shooters with tight corridors who focus on graphic and fast pace action with any rpg.
If I put on Modern Warfare 2 I know I will get fun action the first minute I play, in DAO? no, it might takes minutes or hours at some points.
Rpg's are about characters and story, take for ex "batman arkham asylum" which is 15 hours, you dont need to introduce the Joker, or the batman, they assume you do know them. so its all about the action from the start.
How much of that 15 hours is boring? or dragged out? nothing. not a minute. So take of your mod cap for a second and be objective.
Modifié par Raxtoren, 06 janvier 2010 - 01:30 .
#14
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:28
daiosmith
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If you think you got it tough try living in Australia. I bought the collectors edition from EB (our biggest games retailer) for $120 AUD which is 110 USD at current exchange rates 
#15
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:29
Targonis1
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Expansion packs are a fun topic, and I have seen enough of them over the years to give me some insight into the how and why of these things compared to extra downloadable content.
Expansions tend to be things that not only add content, but either extend the story(mini-sequel style), but also add features to the game that just were not available previously, and ALSO provide extra features in the original game. In this case, from what has been posted, Awakenings will add stuff to the game that you can pick up from playing the original game, enhancing the value there, in addition to the extra content.
Now, paid retail expansions also add another factor that many do not think about, and that is to keep a game on store shelves. Most retail stores only keep a game on shelves that is selling well, or has an expansion that requires the original game. From that perspective then, it will have been out for over five months, which would normally push a game off the shelves. The expansion will bring it back, which will also increase sales of the original game.
Paid downloadable content(DLC) is there really as fairly minor additions to the game compared to an expansion. You get more content, but it fits within the scope of the game. This means we might see new adventures, but wouldn't see new features.
There are additional factors here that have been mentioned already, such as the pen and paper rule system, and sequels. If Bioware designed the game engine with a sequel in mind, then the cost of developing the sequel(s) will be much less than having to develop an all new engine again. This is how Baldur's Gate 2 was even possible, because the game engine from the original Baldur's Gate could be used without needing a HUGE amount of work. The licensing of the Infinity engine back then for other games(Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale 1 and 2, etc....) also helped the bottom line.
And that is the true key for success in a difficult financial environment, look at all the uses for ONE product so you can make as much money off of it as possible. It is POSSIBLE that with the success of DA:O, there will be other companies that will license the engine for their own games.
I am not a fan of $40 expansion packs myself, but considering that Bioware has a proven track record when it comes to good content, I am willing to pay the extra $10+shipping+tax here. In the long run, it will be worth it. Remember, $8-$10 for a movie....will you be playing the expansion for long enough, with the extra features to make the value worth it?
Expansions tend to be things that not only add content, but either extend the story(mini-sequel style), but also add features to the game that just were not available previously, and ALSO provide extra features in the original game. In this case, from what has been posted, Awakenings will add stuff to the game that you can pick up from playing the original game, enhancing the value there, in addition to the extra content.
Now, paid retail expansions also add another factor that many do not think about, and that is to keep a game on store shelves. Most retail stores only keep a game on shelves that is selling well, or has an expansion that requires the original game. From that perspective then, it will have been out for over five months, which would normally push a game off the shelves. The expansion will bring it back, which will also increase sales of the original game.
Paid downloadable content(DLC) is there really as fairly minor additions to the game compared to an expansion. You get more content, but it fits within the scope of the game. This means we might see new adventures, but wouldn't see new features.
There are additional factors here that have been mentioned already, such as the pen and paper rule system, and sequels. If Bioware designed the game engine with a sequel in mind, then the cost of developing the sequel(s) will be much less than having to develop an all new engine again. This is how Baldur's Gate 2 was even possible, because the game engine from the original Baldur's Gate could be used without needing a HUGE amount of work. The licensing of the Infinity engine back then for other games(Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale 1 and 2, etc....) also helped the bottom line.
And that is the true key for success in a difficult financial environment, look at all the uses for ONE product so you can make as much money off of it as possible. It is POSSIBLE that with the success of DA:O, there will be other companies that will license the engine for their own games.
I am not a fan of $40 expansion packs myself, but considering that Bioware has a proven track record when it comes to good content, I am willing to pay the extra $10+shipping+tax here. In the long run, it will be worth it. Remember, $8-$10 for a movie....will you be playing the expansion for long enough, with the extra features to make the value worth it?
#16
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:33
Titius.Vibius
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15 hours is not bad and may probably be longer for other casual gamers.
#17
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:37
biomag
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Truth is, $ 40 for the expansion is very expensive for 15h of gameplay and there is no other company I would pay this price. Also I think that both DLC cost a lot and the Warden's Keep is a rip off (there should be an extension for this DLC that finishes it, so it just looks like a bad joke).
...BUT: I spent already more than 100 h with this game and enjoyed every one of it. BioWare made a great game and they have the point that their production cost have risen while the price for PC-games has not in years. I ain't thrilled by the idea of pay $ 40 for the expansion, still the cost will have to go up. Rather paying 20% more than in the past than seeing a company like BioWare giving up their standards because they can't cover the costs.
...BUT: I spent already more than 100 h with this game and enjoyed every one of it. BioWare made a great game and they have the point that their production cost have risen while the price for PC-games has not in years. I ain't thrilled by the idea of pay $ 40 for the expansion, still the cost will have to go up. Rather paying 20% more than in the past than seeing a company like BioWare giving up their standards because they can't cover the costs.
#18
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:42
ComputerEd
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Great discussion folks, nice to see the adults come out and play :-)
Torias I understand your point and do believe BIOWARE gave us a great product but they, actually EA set the price point. If they could have charged more and did not that was their choice and has no bearing on this discussion.
I agree that I love the work BIOWARE does but am scared EA will ruin them.
Torias I understand your point and do believe BIOWARE gave us a great product but they, actually EA set the price point. If they could have charged more and did not that was their choice and has no bearing on this discussion.
I agree that I love the work BIOWARE does but am scared EA will ruin them.
#19
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:46
supervexi
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@ComputerEd:
Key distinction! I am sure that there are more than a few of us out here who love BioWare games, and are more than happy to consume them (and, of course pay for them), but are leery of the corporate-evil-incarnate that is sometimes thought to be personified by EA.
Key distinction! I am sure that there are more than a few of us out here who love BioWare games, and are more than happy to consume them (and, of course pay for them), but are leery of the corporate-evil-incarnate that is sometimes thought to be personified by EA.
#20
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:49
Torias
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ComputerEd wrote...
Torias I understand your point and do believe BIOWARE gave us a great product but they, actually EA set the price point. If they could have charged more and did not that was their choice and has no bearing on this discussion.
I agree that I love the work BIOWARE does but am scared EA will ruin them.
Actually, it has every bearing on this discussion.
As for "set the price point", that's incorrect. There's the industry
standard price point ($60 for xbox / ps, $50 for pc). They couldn't
realistically go above that, even though the content provided justified
a much higher price.
This expansion was part of a long term plan to make their 5 years of effort profitable.
The Dragon Age: Origins retail price alone probably isn't enough to cover that 5 years of costs... this expansion has a role to play in covering those costs...
#21
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:50
Targonis1
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I agree with you, ComputerEd. EA has a proven track record of ruining companies, but at least they are not as bad as Sony Online Entertainment(EverQuest and Star Wars Galaxies). My own feeling is that there should be a LOWER price for games using a direct download method since you don't have the overhead of shipping, packaging, or retail mark-up. I would still pay for the CD/DVD version since I tend to replay games for years, and replace/upgrade my computers every year or two.
#22
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 01:50
Erlec
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First, I remember back in the day where we payed 120 $ to play a game for four hours (Price differences, plus tax, plus, plus plus) 40 $ is quite cheap, and it gives a incentive for more quality DLC's in the future/expansions. I will however not get it on the first days due to me being away from my gaming computer for at that time.
However, a retail expansion seems more of a PR/EA move, then a Bioware tactic. Nonetheless, I hope to get it over steam when I can and play it out.
P.S. Do you know how much voice acting/new models/abilites/areas/story writing costs as well as time it takes?
If you don't like the price, wait for sale. If you want to help out the studio, then buy it if you want to.
However, a retail expansion seems more of a PR/EA move, then a Bioware tactic. Nonetheless, I hope to get it over steam when I can and play it out.
P.S. Do you know how much voice acting/new models/abilites/areas/story writing costs as well as time it takes?
If you don't like the price, wait for sale. If you want to help out the studio, then buy it if you want to.
#23
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 02:13
addiction21
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Erlec wrote...
P.S. Do you know how much voice acting/new models/abilites/areas/story writing costs as well as time it takes?
If you don't like the price, wait for sale. If you want to help out the studio, then buy it if you want to.
So its 15 hours and thats all that matters. The length not the the content. /sarcasim
Honestly tho does anyone have a link to the thread or interview that A BIOWARE REPRESENITIVE (I.E> someone that actualy has the information and works for BW) stating this 15 hours game time? Just asking because I have not found it anywhere. Maybe I just have not been looking in the right spots.
#24
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 02:19
Torias
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addiction21 wrote...
Erlec wrote...
P.S. Do you know how much voice acting/new models/abilites/areas/story writing costs as well as time it takes?
If you don't like the price, wait for sale. If you want to help out the studio, then buy it if you want to.
So its 15 hours and thats all that matters. The length not the the content. /sarcasim
Honestly tho does anyone have a link to the thread or interview that A BIOWARE REPRESENITIVE (I.E> someone that actualy has the information and works for BW) stating this 15 hours game time? Just asking because I have not found it anywhere. Maybe I just have not been looking in the right spots.
You know, I was wondering the same thing... I swear I read it somewhere, but I can't find it anywhere anymore.
I THINK it used to be mentioned on this page:
http://www.gamestop....roduct_id=76825
but I can't find mention of it anymore... maybe it was removed...
#25
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 02:31
Nosajaar
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I'm sure many folks here will banter about the price of DLC, the price of Awakening, the price of a watt of electricity to run the PC that allows them to play the game, etc.
In the end, the cost/value determination will be a very personal one. Even hardcore fans of any game will differ greatly on what was best about it. Some will cite the characters, or even a favorite, others the story, others the way it felt, or had an impact on them in some way. No two people will agree on every point, but they all made the decision that the game had some value to them before purchasing it, despite what it may have cost.
How does this translate to the impact of Awakening against the value of DLC? Simply put, no matter if it is good, bad, or ugly, in the end the value will still be determined by whatever influenced you to buy it in the first place, as well as its impact as you utilize it. For some, getting to explore a particular part of the story further will make it worth it. For others, simply getting to spend more hours crushing darkspawn into oblivion will be worth it.
As a final argument, the fact that Bioware has released the toolset that they have to a community this large means that despite what we may have sunk into the game for the content Bioware themselves have provided, there will be plenty of user mods to sate every taste.
In the end, the cost/value determination will be a very personal one. Even hardcore fans of any game will differ greatly on what was best about it. Some will cite the characters, or even a favorite, others the story, others the way it felt, or had an impact on them in some way. No two people will agree on every point, but they all made the decision that the game had some value to them before purchasing it, despite what it may have cost.
How does this translate to the impact of Awakening against the value of DLC? Simply put, no matter if it is good, bad, or ugly, in the end the value will still be determined by whatever influenced you to buy it in the first place, as well as its impact as you utilize it. For some, getting to explore a particular part of the story further will make it worth it. For others, simply getting to spend more hours crushing darkspawn into oblivion will be worth it.
As a final argument, the fact that Bioware has released the toolset that they have to a community this large means that despite what we may have sunk into the game for the content Bioware themselves have provided, there will be plenty of user mods to sate every taste.
