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The harrier seems like BSN's crown jewel.


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#51
Javo2357

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cowwy wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

121210Olivia wrote...

If other ARs weren't as atrociously underwhelming as they currently are, then this thread wouldn't even be here.

Food for thought.


The PPR, Sabre and Mattock are all atrociously underwhelming?

I wouldn't even call the Typhoon atrociously underwhelming, but I know if I include it in that list someone will try to tell me it's bad because it can't kill a platinum Atlas in 6 seconds or something.


Shielded or unshielded? :whistle:

Shielded, of course. But without any amps or bonuses :P

#52
cowwy

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Javo2357 wrote...

cowwy wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

121210Olivia wrote...

If other ARs weren't as atrociously underwhelming as they currently are, then this thread wouldn't even be here.

Food for thought.


The PPR, Sabre and Mattock are all atrociously underwhelming?

I wouldn't even call the Typhoon atrociously underwhelming, but I know if I include it in that list someone will try to tell me it's bad because it can't kill a platinum Atlas in 6 seconds or something.


Shielded or unshielded? :whistle:

Shielded, of course. But without any amps or bonuses :P


I can't read that thread and not laugh. :P

#53
121210Olivia

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UnknownMercenary wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

121210Olivia wrote...

If other ARs weren't as atrociously underwhelming as they currently are, then this thread wouldn't even be here.

Food for thought.


The PPR, Sabre and Mattock are all atrociously underwhelming?

I wouldn't even call the Typhoon atrociously underwhelming, but I know if I include it in that list someone will try to tell me it's bad because it can't kill a platinum Atlas in 6 seconds or something.


All of them are ultra-rares except the Mattock. ME3MP has 15 assault rifles, 4 of which don't require specific builds and consumables to be effective, and 3 of those are ultra-rares.

It's plain as day that the assault rifle category needs a major overhaul.


This.

#54
Cyonan

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UnknownMercenary wrote...
All of them are ultra-rares except the Mattock. ME3MP has 15 assault rifles, 4 of which don't require specific builds and consumables to be effective, and 3 of those are ultra-rares.

It's plain as day that the assault rifle category needs a major overhaul.


As long as we're talking "atrociously underwhelming" I would also throw Revenant and Argus in there since while you do need to get closer the damage is actually solid. They could use a bit of a buff but they're hardly atrociously underwhelming imo. I just didn't include them because they weren't part of the painfully obvious ones and I know it'll just spawn a debate from people trying to use them at long range and claiming they do poor damage.

However, how many non UR Sniper Rifles are not underwhelming on a non weapons class with no consumables?

How many SMGs?

The problem is not unique to the Assault Rifle class.

The problem is that consumables give you too much of a damage increase to not be taking them on higher difficulties. Weapons would be hilariously overpowered if they all hit as hard as the Harrier does and we started using consumables.

Kind of like people call the Harrier overpowered right now =P

#55
ToaOrka

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1. Particle Rifle
2. Saber
3. Mattock
4. Geth Pulse Rifle
5. Typhoon

Whaddaya know, all weapons I'd use before I touched the Harrier.

#56
121210Olivia

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Cyonan wrote...

UnknownMercenary wrote...
All of them are ultra-rares except the Mattock. ME3MP has 15 assault rifles, 4 of which don't require specific builds and consumables to be effective, and 3 of those are ultra-rares.

It's plain as day that the assault rifle category needs a major overhaul.


As long as we're talking "atrociously underwhelming" I would also throw Revenant and Argus in there since while you do need to get closer the damage is actually solid. They could use a bit of a buff but they're hardly atrociously underwhelming imo. I just didn't include them because they weren't part of the painfully obvious ones and I know it'll just spawn a debate from people trying to use them at long range and claiming they do poor damage.

However, how many non UR Sniper Rifles are not underwhelming on a non weapons class with no consumables?

How many SMGs?

The problem is not unique to the Assault Rifle class.

The problem is that consumables give you too much of a damage increase to not be taking them on higher difficulties. Weapons would be hilariously overpowered if they all hit as hard as the Harrier does and we started using consumables.

Kind of like people call the Harrier overpowered right now =P


Cyonan, considering I read somewhere on a thread that some of the snipers received a "GODLY" buff (how pathetically exaggerated IS that description *tut-with disgust added*), I hold firm to my, imo, APT description (i.e. atrociously underwhelming) of many of the ARs as they currently stand.

Oh and btw, I also think that all weapons should perform well without the need to rely on modding them and adding consumables. Doing so should make them easy mode. Currently, without modding and adding amps etc.

...many SUCK.

I should add I am specifically referring to Gold. Not even remotely interested to listen about how they fare on anything less.

*edit: typos

Modifié par 121210Olivia, 18 décembre 2012 - 05:09 .


#57
UnknownMercenary

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Cyonan wrote...

UnknownMercenary wrote...
All of them are ultra-rares except the Mattock. ME3MP has 15 assault rifles, 4 of which don't require specific builds and consumables to be effective, and 3 of those are ultra-rares.

It's plain as day that the assault rifle category needs a major overhaul.


As long as we're talking "atrociously underwhelming" I would also throw Revenant and Argus in there since while you do need to get closer the damage is actually solid. They could use a bit of a buff but they're hardly atrociously underwhelming imo. I just didn't include them because they weren't part of the painfully obvious ones and I know it'll just spawn a debate from people trying to use them at long range and claiming they do poor damage.

However, how many non UR Sniper Rifles are not underwhelming on a non weapons class with no consumables?

How many SMGs?

The problem is not unique to the Assault Rifle class.

The problem is that consumables give you too much of a damage increase to not be taking them on higher difficulties. Weapons would be hilariously overpowered if they all hit as hard as the Harrier does and we started using consumables.

Kind of like people call the Harrier overpowered right now =P


It's just most noticeable with the AR category because there are so many of them - well, arguably the SMG category has it the worst because there's the Hurricane, and then everything else although the Tempest and Hornet can work in certain builds. I think the only categories that have a wide spread of useful options are the pistols and shotguns. Everybody talks up the Talon and Claymore, but the both have a ton of options that work.

#58
xsdob

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Personally, I'd take an argus rifle over a harrier anytime.

#59
Guest_Lord_Sirian_*

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Kalas321 wrote...

Just leave it alone. Balanced weapon is balanced.

 

This. The gun is perfectly balanced as is.

It's not the Harrier's fault that so many people have L2P issues and can't use other guns properly.

#60
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Cyonan wrote...

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

I suppose people like it because it combinates extremely high damage with such an easy use that my cat could solo bronze with it.


It's also fairly low risk for very high reward. Of the other guns I mentioned:

Typhoon/PPR - Requires sustained fire with ramp up times. Going to be high risk unless you know how to use right hand advantage properly(average pug doesn't know about this)

Reegar/Piranha/Hurricane - Bad spread or limited range means you need to get closer unless you have an accuracy boosting class for the Piranha/Hurricane. CQC tends to bring higher risk unless you're skilled enough to not get killed constantly.

The Krysae pre-nerf suffered the same problem as the Harrier does now, only it was lower risk for even higher reward since it staggered and was AoE.

 

Looks like you spend too much time data mining and too little time actually playing.

#61
Red Panda

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Make it pink.Posted Image

Modifié par OperatingWookie, 18 décembre 2012 - 05:16 .


#62
Ziegrif

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Eh...
I have it at IX.
I use it once in a blue moon.
if you want my crown jewel...
hmm...
The Claymore. Yeah I think fiddling with the Claymore would get a LOT louder reaction from the BSN than fiddling with the harrier.

#63
Cyonan

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121210Olivia wrote...

Cyonan, considering I read somewhere on a thread that some of the snipers received a "GODLY" buff (how pathetically exaggerated IS that description *tut-with disgust added*), I hold firm to my, imo, APT description (i.e. atrociously underwhelming) of many of the ARs as they currently stand.

Oh and btw, I also think that all weapons should perform well without the need to rely on modding them and adding consumables. Doing so should make them easy mode. Currently, without modding and adding amps etc.

...many SUCK.

I should add I am specifically referring to Gold. Not even remotely interested to listen about how they fair on anything less.


The non UR SRs actually aren't all that impressive without consumables or a specific character that can boost their damage(primarily Infiltrators). Kishock maybe, but it has off-host issues.

The problem with the "it should be useful without any mods or equipment" argument is mainly armour. Anything with a high RoF immediately requires AP to be useful against bosses or else it's going to be very overpowered when running with 100% AP. Even the Harrier is not incredibly impressive with no mods. I disagree that mods/gear should not be a requirement since they are not consumed on use. You have no reason not to use them.

When I can get 150% extra weapon damage from my consumables, it's not going to be easy mode to use something with the damage output of a Harrier at that point. It's going to be overkill(which is why I use the Vindicator on my Justicar and not my Harrier).

If you think this is just limited to ARs, then go take the Incisor into Gold on a character with no mods, no consumables, and no armour sundering(so no AP at all) and tell me how well you fare against armoured targets. Do the same for the Tempest.

and the only difficulty I play is Gold.

UnknownMercenary wrote...
It's just most noticeable with the AR category because there are so many of them - well, arguably the SMG category has it the worst because there's the Hurricane, and then everything else although the Tempest and Hornet can work in certain builds. I think the only categories that have a wide spread of useful options are the pistols and shotguns. Everybody talks up the Talon and Claymore, but the both have a ton of options that work.


You very rarely see Sniper Rifles outside of the Infiltrator class as well(unless you're Stardusk playing the Turian Soldier) which qualifies as "specific builds".

If we're talking about which categories have the most number of useful options, then I imagine that ARs would fare quite well because of the fact that there are so many of them. They'd probably also win most number of useless options as well, again because of the sheer number of them.

I'm not saying that Gold ARs are all amazing weapons, but I am saying they're not nearly as bad as people around the BSN say they are(for the record, I have said that all gold ARs could use a buff of varying amounts). I suspect that people just aren't using consumables or have an insanely high standard of what not being "atrociously underwhelming" is.

Modifié par Cyonan, 18 décembre 2012 - 05:29 .


#64
millahnna

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GriM_AoD wrote...

It never got more than a meh out of me



#65
k1ngl1ves

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Ziegrif wrote...

Eh...
I have it at IX.
I use it once in a blue moon.
if you want my crown jewel...
hmm...
The Claymore. Yeah I think fiddling with the Claymore would get a LOT louder reaction from the BSN than fiddling with the harrier.


The only people I EVER see using the Claymore are BSNers... and I think BW sees that too.  I consider the Claymore our little secret we share with BW.  A little "Insiders Perk.":wub:

#66
Tybo

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@Cyonan:

I think many would agree that the CSR is a very good all purpose weapon, even on non-Infiltrators. The Kishock is also a very good gun. The SMG class is pretty underwhelming outside of the Hurricane, but there also are fewer SMGs than any other class of weapon.

Modifié par tyhw, 18 décembre 2012 - 05:37 .


#67
Cyonan

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tyhw wrote...

@Cyonan:

I think many would agree that the CSR is a very good all purpose weapon, even on non-Infiltrators. The Kishock is also a very good gun. The SMG class is pretty underwhelming outside of the Hurricane, but there also are fewer SMGs than any other class of weapon.


The argument I'm being given is that it should perform well without consumables or even mods, though.

With Incendiary Ammo I would say it's one of the best Sniper Rifles.

Modifié par Cyonan, 18 décembre 2012 - 05:41 .


#68
taplonaplo

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Lord_Sirian wrote...
Looks like you spend too much time data mining and too little time actually playing.

Looks like someone really doesn't like to be challanged by the game.

#69
Schachmatt123

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Kalas321 wrote...

Just leave it alone. Balanced weapon is balanced.



#70
Tybo

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Cyonan wrote...

tyhw wrote...

@Cyonan:

I think many would agree that the CSR is a very good all purpose weapon, even on non-Infiltrators. The Kishock is also a very good gun. The SMG class is pretty underwhelming outside of the Hurricane, but there also are fewer SMGs than any other class of weapon.


The argument I'm being given is that it should perform well without consumables or even mods, though.

With Incendiary Ammo I would say it's one of the best Sniper Rifles.


I'll admit I didn't read the whole thread, sorry.  That is a completely ridiculous restriction.  In that case, the Kishock/Graal/GPS are probably among the best weapons in the game, since they gain the least from mods in general.  

Also, with the advent of level IV ammo, I'm swimming in ammo at the very least.  I'd say its fair to assume ammo usage as well.  Rail Amps and cyclonic mods on the other hand...

#71
Guest_Lord_Sirian_*

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taplonaplo wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...
Looks like you spend too much time data mining and too little time actually playing.

Looks like someone really doesn't like to be challanged by the game.

 

Because this game is extremely hard and challenging.

/sarcasm

#72
Guest_Lord_Sirian_*

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tyhw wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

tyhw wrote...

@Cyonan:

I think many would agree that the CSR is a very good all purpose weapon, even on non-Infiltrators. The Kishock is also a very good gun. The SMG class is pretty underwhelming outside of the Hurricane, but there also are fewer SMGs than any other class of weapon.


The argument I'm being given is that it should perform well without consumables or even mods, though.

With Incendiary Ammo I would say it's one of the best Sniper Rifles.


I'll admit I didn't read the whole thread, sorry.  That is a completely ridiculous restriction.  In that case, the Kishock/Graal/GPS are probably among the best weapons in the game, since they gain the least from mods in general.  

Also, with the advent of level IV ammo, I'm swimming in ammo at the very least.  I'd say its fair to assume ammo usage as well.  Rail Amps and cyclonic mods on the other hand...

 

The other thing you might've missed is Cyonan (implying at very least) that the LOLReegar is more balanced than the Harrier.

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

#73
taplonaplo

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Lord_Sirian wrote...

taplonaplo wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...
Looks like you spend too much time data mining and too little time actually playing.

Looks like someone really doesn't like to be challanged by the game.

 

Because this game is extremely hard and challenging.

/sarcasm

It used to be, somewhat. Then balance tuesdays and rebellion happened.

#74
Guest_Lord_Sirian_*

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taplonaplo wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

taplonaplo wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...
Looks like you spend too much time data mining and too little time actually playing.

Looks like someone really doesn't like to be challanged by the game.

 

Because this game is extremely hard and challenging.

/sarcasm

It used to be, somewhat. Then balance tuesdays and rebellion happened.

 

Right. Because playing as a Novaguard is supah difficult. And nobody ever complained about Novaguards being OP. 

A game against fairly thick AI, where you can abuse game mechanics like right hand advantage to mean you can basically never get hit, is not really that challenging.

#75
Tybo

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Lord_Sirian wrote...


The other thing you might've missed is Cyonan (implying at very least) that the LOLReegar is more balanced than the Harrier.

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P


Ok, that I can't agree with.  The reegar is the most broken weapon in the game.  Eliminates both bosses and mooks very quickly.  Doesn't require aim/precision.  Double damage vs. Shields/Barriers is a huge bonus against mooks.  The half damage against armor barely hurts you with incendiary/AP/warp ammo, as these function off of the base damage of the weapon (before the 50% armor modifier).  I feel dirty after using it.