189 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

Lord_Sirian wrote...
The other thing you might've missed is Cyonan (implying at very least) that the LOLReegar is more balanced than the Harrier.

             

Balanced at what level of play my dear Lord Sirian?

How many average pugs do you think could use nothing but the Reegar on Gold/Plat without dying 50 times in the match =P

[121210Olivia]

Cyonan wrote...

The non UR SRs actually aren't all that impressive without consumables or a specific character that can boost their damage(primarily Infiltrators). Kishock maybe, but it has off-host issues.

Agree--and that was my point. There is nothing godly about the recent sniper buffs, they were simply necessary (as many inventories with unused sniper amps running into their hundreds attests to).

Cyonan wrote...

The problem with the "it should be useful without any mods or equipment" argument is mainly armour. Anything with a high RoF immediately requires AP to be useful against bosses or else it's going to be very overpowered when running with 100% AP. Even the Harrier is not incredibly impressive with no mods. I disagree that mods/gear should not be a requirement since they are not consumed on use. You have no reason not to use them.

I disagree. I think the current requirement for adding mods / amps to make weapons somewhere near as good as they should be without them, is far too great. Testimony to that fact is even with lvl IV amps, no weapon feels, as you describe "overpowered". Just fun.
Obviously, without amps / modding, most, if not all, weapons in general on Gold are indeed, very underwhelming.

This, imo, is quite simply wrong.
 

Cyonan wrote...

When I can get 150% extra weapon damage from my consumables, it's not going to be easy mode to use something with the damage output of a Harrier at that point. It's going to be overkill(which is why I use the Vindicator on my Justicar and not my Harrier).

150% extra weapon damage? Let's be realistic. Most PUGs are reluctant to even equip lvl 1-2 consumables. I know, I regularly find myself repeating, "use equipment or leave the lobby, thanks" almost every other game. Fact. So, this means many players are relying on using weapons with minimal-to-no-modification. In game, they often die, go down too frequently, and the game gets a little tedious because of this. Running around constantly reviving fallen team players who fell, as a result of pathetically underwhelming unmodded weapons is not my idea of fun.

Cyonan wrote...

If you think this is just limited to ARs, then go take the Incisor into Gold on a character with no mods, no consumables, and no armour sundering(so no AP at all) and tell me how well you fare against armoured targets. Do the same for the Tempest.

and the only difficulty I play is Gold.

Where, even once, did I imply, infer, or state this as being the case? This thread is centred around ARs, specifically--the Harrier. Let's try not to digress and remain on topic.

Edit: typos

Modifié par 121210Olivia, 18 décembre 2012 - 06:20 .

[heybigmoney]

There's no way the gold ARs are going to be balanced with the way the harrier is now. In most shooters high dmg per bullet guns are balanced by low rof, recoil patterns, or accuracy making them less ideal for long range use. The harrier really doesn't suffer from any of those.

That said, its definitely OP but nowhere near game breaking like the krysae or prenerf pirahna. It just introduces balance issues with the other full auto ARs. The ppr and typhoon have interesting mechanics to make them somewhat balanced, but the other ARs don''t have that kind of function.

I'd start by giving the harrier its in cover recoil pattern.

[d_nought]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...
The other thing you might've missed is Cyonan (implying at very least) that the LOLReegar is more balanced than the Harrier.

             

Balanced at what level of play my dear Lord Sirian?

How many average pugs do you think could use nothing but the Reegar on Gold/Plat without dying 50 times in the match =P

 

Probably more than the number of people who can use a Harrier on the same difficulty.  

There's a reason people recommend Reegar Kroguards and not Harrier Kroguards.

There's a reason people recommend Harrier TGIs and not Reegar TGIs

[d_nought]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

chipsandwich wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...
The other thing you might've missed is Cyonan (implying at very least) that the LOLReegar is more balanced than the Harrier.

             

Balanced at what level of play my dear Lord Sirian?

How many average pugs do you think could use nothing but the Reegar on Gold/Plat without dying 50 times in the match =P

 

Probably more than the number of people who can use a Harrier on the same difficulty.  

There's a reason people recommend Reegar Kroguards and not Harrier Kroguards.

There's a reason people recommend Harrier TGIs and not Reegar TGIs

 

Knew someone would come back with that.

Might have something to do with the 20% multiplicative AR damage for 10 seconds after cloaking, right?

nah, couldn't possibly be that.

And the Reegar is good (or OP, or whatever) on the Kroguard because of survivability and biotic charge overcoming the weaknesses of the Reegar. I don't care what happens to either, I'm just saying that the point about Harrier Kroguards is silly because they do not synergise properly. There are other faceroll classes, ie TGI, which synergise properly with the Harrier.

[Ziegrif]

k1ngl1ves wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

Eh...
I have it at IX.
I use it once in a blue moon.
if you want my crown jewel...
hmm...
The Claymore. Yeah I think fiddling with the Claymore would get a LOT louder reaction from the BSN than fiddling with the harrier.

The only people I EVER see using the Claymore are BSNers... and I think BW sees that too.  I consider the Claymore our little secret we share with BW.  A little "Insiders Perk.":wub:

Huh... Never thought of it like that.
Whenever I see a BSNer in a PuG I immediately just get the mind set of.
Show me your moves.

[Tyrannus00]

Ziegrif wrote...

k1ngl1ves wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

Eh...
I have it at IX.
I use it once in a blue moon.
if you want my crown jewel...
hmm...
The Claymore. Yeah I think fiddling with the Claymore would get a LOT louder reaction from the BSN than fiddling with the harrier.

The only people I EVER see using the Claymore are BSNers... and I think BW sees that too.  I consider the Claymore our little secret we share with BW.  A little "Insiders Perk.":wub:

Huh... Never thought of it like that.
Whenever I see a BSNer in a PuG I immediately just get the mind set of.
Show me your moves.

This hurts me.

[Cyonan]

121210Olivia wrote...

I disagree. I think the current requirement for adding mods / amps to make weapons somewhere near as good as they should be without them, is far too great. Testimony to that fact is even with lvl IV amps, no weapon feels, as you describe "overpowered". Just fun.
Obviously, without amps / modding, most, if not all, weapons in general on Gold are indeed, very underwhelming.

This, imo, is quite simply wrong.

Again the issue is armour.

Let's imagine that the GPR hits so incredibly hard that it actually kills an Atlas fairly quickly with 0 AP. Now give that GPR 100% AP and watch it tear into that Atlas as though it were made out of paper. It would make Gold look like it's a difficulty below Bronze.

There is no way to balance every weapon so that they're balanced with each other with and without consumables, so it is better to balance around the idea of people at the very least using the non consumable mods that everybody ever uses unless they don't physically have one yet, if not around consumables as well.

If people do find being overpowered fun, there is a difficulty for doing that. There is two, actually =P

121210Olivia wrote...

150% extra weapon damage? Let's be realistic. Most PUGs are reluctant to even equip lvl 1-2 consumables. I know, I regularly find myself repeating, "use equipment or leave the lobby, thanks" almost every other game. Fact. So, this means many players are relying on using weapons with minimal-to-no-modification. In game, they often die, go down too frequently, and the game gets a little tedious because of this. Running around constantly reviving fallen team players who fell, as a result of pathetically underwhelming unmodded weapons is not my idea of fun.

The fact still stands that my consumables alone can add enough damage to make it seem like there is an extra player in the game who isn't using consumables.

and when was the last time you saw somebody not using mods in Gold who wasn't a new player?

121210Olivia wrote...

Where, even once, did I imply, infer, or state this as being the case? This thread is centred around ARs, specifically--the Harrier. Let's try not to digress and remain on topic.

Edit: typos

My point is that this is hardly an AR specific problem. The majority of weapons are underwhelming if you aren't using any mods because of the weakness to armour that requires AP on most full auto weapons.

Our whole discussion is not really about the Harrier anyway. It's about the question "Should you balance around the assumption that people are using full consumables or none?" since I've been arguing that they're decent with consumables and you're arguing that they're bad without them.

Guns will never be balanced at both(even ignoring my overkill comments), but I think at the very least you should assume mods and gear since everybody uses those except new players who don't have them yet(and they probably shouldn't be in Gold anyway).

[BlueTobimon]

I've never seen that gun, I would need USEFUL RANDOM PACKAGES

[BridgeBurner]

Ahhh, the reegar. The reason why I dread public games.

There I am, casually shooting stuff with my civilised, manly claymore, then some reetard with the reetard carbine comes over and spoils all the fun.

If you can't play properly and need a fisher price gun like the reegar carbine to carry you, go back to bronze.

Every public player I've ever met using the Reegar has been a complete and utter monkey.

On topic: I've taken to sticking the typhoon on everything. Even volus. My harrier X is gathering dust.

[121210Olivia]

Ziegrif wrote...

Huh... Never thought of it like that.
Whenever I see a BSNer in a PuG I immediately just get the mind set of.
Show me your moves.

Witty and on point: win. Nice one Ziegrif !

[Cyonan]

Lord_Sirian wrote...
The Reegar doesn't need survivability to be good. Everything dies so quickly it doesn't have time to shoot you.

The Harrier's damage output is puny in comparison, especially against bosses.

I wonder why everyone says to use it on the Kroguard then and not say, the Drell Vanguard.

I mean, it doesn't need survivability for the average pug, right?

[HoochieHamiltoe]

Annomander wrote...

Ahhh, the reegar. The reason why I dread public games.

There I am, casually shooting stuff with my civilised, manly claymore, then some reetard with the reetard carbine comes over and spoils all the fun.

If you can't play properly and need a fisher price gun like the reegar carbine to carry you, go back to bronze.

Every public player I've ever met using the Reegar has been a complete and utter monkey.

On topic: I've taken to sticking the typhoon on everything. Even volus. My harrier X is gathering dust.

As is mine. 

[Ziegrif]

121210Olivia wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

Huh... Never thought of it like that.
Whenever I see a BSNer in a PuG I immediately just get the mind set of.
Show me your moves.

Witty and on point: win. Nice one Ziegrif !

I was on POINT?!
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS!
THIS WAS PURELY AN ACCIDENT PEOPLE!
DO NOT PANIC!

Tyrannus00 wrote...

This hurts me.

Why?
I only have the mindset for a couple of games.

Then it changes to Jolly Co-Operation mindset.

Modifié par Ziegrif, 18 décembre 2012 - 06:45 .

[Tyrannus00]

Ziegrif wrote...

121210Olivia wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

Huh... Never thought of it like that.
Whenever I see a BSNer in a PuG I immediately just get the mind set of.
Show me your moves.

Witty and on point: win. Nice one Ziegrif !

I was on POINT?!
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS!
THIS WAS PURELY AN ACCIDENT PEOPLE!
DO NOT PANIC!

Tyrannus00 wrote...

This hurts me.

Why?
I only have the mindset for a couple of games.

Then it changes to Jolly Co-Operation mindset.

It's like sending someone to the inside of the sun for vitamin D.

[MajorStupidity]

Reegar is completely faceroll and harrier is balanced hmmm... well considering I see a reegar maybe once in 10 games or less compared to the harrier which I see in at least 1 out of 2 games. While I agree the reegar should not be affected by AP ammo or mods (to further reinforce the weakness to armor) it is hardly the insta-win gun that people are making it out to be.

Modifié par MajorStupidity, 18 décembre 2012 - 06:52 .

[BridgeBurner]

Lord_Sirian wrote...
You should kill all the stuff with your claymore before they can get close enough to hit it with the LOLReegar. That's what I do.

I try, but sooner or later they shoot stuff before I can get a reload cancel done.

Why can't more people play properly Sirian, WHYYY?

[Ziegrif]

Tyrannus00 wrote...

It's like sending someone to the inside of the sun for vitamin D.

AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
BWAHAHAHA!!!

I NEED TO DO THAT!!

We need to make the space program about this!

PRONTO!

[DJ Airsurfer]

Ziegrif wrote...

Tyrannus00 wrote...

It's like sending someone to the inside of the sun for vitamin D.

AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
BWAHAHAHA!!!

I NEED TO DO THAT!!

We need to make the space program about this!

PRONTO!

This just became my favorite thread. EVER.