189 réponses à ce sujet

[taplonaplo]

Lord_Sirian wrote...
That's because the average PUG cannot play this game to save their life. If we're balancing based on what the average PUG can do, then every single weapon in the game should be buffed to the level of pre-nerf Krysae, so that I can stop scoring 270k in games and having the next best score like 30k.

That's kinda where the game is heading for a while now.

[Crimson Vanguard]

Annomander wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...
You should kill all the stuff with your claymore before they can get close enough to hit it with the LOLReegar. That's what I do.

I try, but sooner or later they shoot stuff before I can get a reload cancel done.

Why can't more people play properly Sirian, WHYYY?

You want people to play the way you want? 

[taplonaplo]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

MajorStupidity wrote...

Reegar is completely faceroll and harrier is balanced hmmm... well considering I see a reegar maybe once in 10 games or less compared to the harrier which I see in at least 1 out of 2 games. While I agree the reegar should not be affected by AP ammo or mods (to further reinforce the weakness to armor) it is hardly the insta-win gun that people are making it out to be.

 

There are no truly overpowered/broken guns in this game at the moment. But if ANY gun comes close to being OP/broken, it has to be the LOLReegar. 

Prevalence, in spite of what Bioware and all the pubstars on this forum seem to think, is NOT a good indication of whether something is overpowered or not.

So why exactly was the krysae so broken that it HAD to be nerfed... more than once? It's not like you couldn't keep up with it using other optimized builds, heck the fastest speedrun using it was not even close to the current times, and i'm pretty sure it's not because of an enourmous increase in player skill. The krysae's biggest fault was that it was too easy to use, not that it could outperform everything else.

[ZoM_Head]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

MajorStupidity wrote...

Reegar is completely faceroll and harrier is balanced hmmm... well considering I see a reegar maybe once in 10 games or less compared to the harrier which I see in at least 1 out of 2 games. While I agree the reegar should not be affected by AP ammo or mods (to further reinforce the weakness to armor) it is hardly the insta-win gun that people are making it out to be.

 

There are no truly overpowered/broken guns in this game at the moment. But if ANY gun comes close to being OP/broken, it has to be the LOLReegar. 

Prevalence, in spite of what Bioware and all the pubstars on this forum seem to think, is NOT a good indication of whether something is overpowered or not.

M-4 Shuriken

M-29 Incisor

Krysae was fine, worked wonders on mobs, worked like crap on bosses. A hammer dropped on it like made, now it is horrible.

I can go on about this.

Modifié par ZoM_Head, 18 décembre 2012 - 08:38 .

[tthw]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

And speed run times have gotten faster simply because people have tried more and more speed runs, gotten better at the game (yes) and developed better strategies for speed running.

8 missiles helps.  

[The Answer]

People need to shut up about the Harrier already. It's one of the few guns (URs specifically) that this game did right. I like using an assault rifle that feels like an assault rifle.

[ZoM_Head]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

taplonaplo wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

MajorStupidity wrote...

Reegar is completely faceroll and harrier is balanced hmmm... well considering I see a reegar maybe once in 10 games or less compared to the harrier which I see in at least 1 out of 2 games. While I agree the reegar should not be affected by AP ammo or mods (to further reinforce the weakness to armor) it is hardly the insta-win gun that people are making it out to be.

 

There are no truly overpowered/broken guns in this game at the moment. But if ANY gun comes close to being OP/broken, it has to be the LOLReegar. 

Prevalence, in spite of what Bioware and all the pubstars on this forum seem to think, is NOT a good indication of whether something is overpowered or not.

So why exactly was the krysae so broken that it HAD to be nerfed... more than once? It's not like you couldn't keep up with it using other optimized builds, heck the fastest speedrun using it was not even close to the current times, and i'm pretty sure it's not because of an enourmous increase in player skill. The krysae's biggest fault was that it was too easy to use, not that it could outperform everything else.

 

The Krysae's fault is that it could perform all roles on all classes. It was CC, huge DPS, mook slaying and boss killing all in one, AND it took no skill to use, because you didn't even have to aim it. You could wipe entire spawns in a single cloak cycle.

The only person who can do that with a Harrier is Jay.

It did very little damage to bosses. Several videos showing the Krysae being used/reviewed when released.

Great on goons, horrible on bosses.

[taplonaplo]

Lord_Sirian wrote...
The Krysae's fault is that it could perform all roles on all classes. It was CC, huge DPS, mook slaying and boss killing all in one, AND it took no skill to use, because you didn't even have to aim it. You could wipe entire spawns in a single cloak cycle.

The only person who can do that with a Harrier is Jay.

I think grenade gear is responsible for spawn nuking about as much as the krysae was. The krysae was broken because of the 40% multiplicative damage bonus, on the other classes it was just a "competent with no skill needed" weapon but it didn't make a bad player suddenly outperform good ones.

Like it or not, the game has gotten a lot easier in the past months. I do believe that at this point a pre nerf krysae wouldn't be a goto weapon for power gamers. The only ppl it would benefit would be "average pugs", and judging by your posts they need all the help they can get, right?

[HolyAvenger]

ZoM_Head wrote...

It did very little damage to bosses. Several videos showing the Krysae being used/reviewed when released.

Great on goons, horrible on bosses.

No. No it didn't. Prenerf Krysae ruined everything www.youtube.com/watch

I remember every single gold lobby being 4 Krysae users. It was horrible.

[taplonaplo]

HolyAvenger wrote...

ZoM_Head wrote...

It did very little damage to bosses. Several videos showing the Krysae being used/reviewed when released.

Great on goons, horrible on bosses.

No. No it didn't. Prenerf Krysae ruined everything www.youtube.com/watch

I remember every single gold lobby being 4 Krysae users. It was horrible.

It took 12 seconds to kill the prime from around 8:03 with more than one infiltrators firing at it. I don't have exact numbers but that's a pretty slow kill by todays standards.

Modifié par taplonaplo, 18 décembre 2012 - 10:03 .

[Heldarion]

Harrier is bad and everyone using it should feel bad.

[banans_huligans]

Reager is closer to op weapon than harrier, but due to it's limited range I guess it is somewhat ok

[Happy Shepard]

Don't pretend like nobody hates the Harrier and constantly tries to force BSN to fight about it by creating Harrier thread after Harrier thread. And yes, i'm talking about you OP.

Modifié par Happy Shepard, 18 décembre 2012 - 10:16 .

[Kyerea]

Cyonan wrote...

It has some of the highest damage output in the game with the weakness being much less of a weakness than the other guns in that damage range(Typhoon, PPR, Hurricane, Piranha, Reegar).

Anytime somebody uses the word nerf followed by the word Harrier, they get flamed for about 15 pages.

Though suggesting anything be nerfed will probably get you at least a couple of pages of flames, unless you're being painfully obvious that you're being sarcastic(even then you'll still get a couple).

Great dps, and an extreme lack of spare ammo capacity. So you'll be blowing through Thermal Clips and molesting ammo boxes during all your matches. So it balances out pretty well. Typhoon (on Destroyers and Geth Troopers), PPR, and Saber are all the higher-tier ARs in the game in terms of capability and purpose. Also the game being a co-op experience, the cries for nerf make little to no actual sense and have usually made things worse for everyone. In fact, I think the only nerf that ever made things better was the BE nerf waaaaaaaaaaay back when.

"Balancing should be implemented based solely on player statistics that are collected in-game. One can tell a lot from just glancing at what the most popular weapon/class is and what the most or least played factions are. Most companies that are serious about game balancing don't take input from the screeching minority (believe it or not, nearly 80-90% of the community doesn't use this site) present. What isn't needed is the input from this cesspool of small e-penises and f*cktards that take pleasure in screwing other people for the sole benefit of improving their own lot. That's what all this prof-nerf and anti-nerf garbage comes down to.

With no proper form of competition available within the game (it's a co-op experience, not a pvp one; nor do I think that should change mind you) these minority of loud-mouthed, self-entitled whiners pick fights with other loud-mouthed, self-entitled whiners. At this point, I think I've seen all the vets on BSN switch sides in the pro-nerf and anti-nerf arguments. Since the BE-nerf debacle, to the Geth Hunter/Infiltrator s**tstorm, then the Tactical Cloak f**kfest only to culminate in the recent "Stimpacks are so broken" debate. I agreed the Stimpack shield boost needed to be lowered a tad (4,000 is a bit much), but it got out of hand with people claiming TGIs were the new Geth Hunters (the SAME PLAYERS mind you that wanted new and more powerful Turians. Good job with whole gratitude-thing guys, real proud of you.). Then the anti-nerfers would come into the thread and go on how [insert nerf-thread needs to die], yet simply add more fuel to the rage-fire so as to ensure someone at BioWare lifts their head and notices. Most of those that come out of the woodworks to post b/s on how [insert "broken" weapon or class or ability here] have some ulterior reasoning behind it. Most want to be seen or praised for their esoteric knowledge so as to feel better about their own self-worth. Others are trolling, knowing full well that posting a thread that is about "balancing", "buffing" or "nerfing" will 'cause instant drama and confusion.

But the one thing that both accomplish, whether intentionally or unintentionally, is proverbially screwing over the majority of people that play this game. Completely unaware of the inferno that rages on these forums to get things nerfed (oh I'm sorry, I mean "Balanced"). Most nerfs made in the past were on the whims of the community, whether BW cares to admit or not. Thankfully, this seems to have changed after the heated TC nerf. Most of the balances made since the TC debacle have been general balance tweaks due to the either op nature of an ability/weapon or the popularity of said character/kit vs. a specific faction. If there's one thing that players on here tend to forget, it is the repercussions of their actions or wishes. The TC nerf didn't fix anything, it simply reduced the overall cloaking duration by a couple seconds but left the Shotgun-wielding Infiltrators in the same position of superiority pre-nerf. While severely hampering if not destroying the usefulness of all SR-Infiltrator builds on Gold/Plat. It wasn't until post-Earth DLC release that all non-Krysae/post-Rebellion SRs received a tremendous (25% roughly) damage buff with an adjustment to shield-gate penetration for all weapons. Yet this only happened two months after the Krysae and TC nerfs, two months of contention and bullcrap because players begged Edmonton to severely nerf Infiltrators by holding up GP's "balancing guide" and in turn they caved-in and accomodated their wishes. Only to screw over every Infiltrator in the game that liked the use of SRs over Shotguns when it was the Shotty Infiltrators that were the most popular and frequently highest-scoring build in the game post-Rebellion. 

So yeah, I blame the nerfers and I blame the anti-nerfers for continuing this b/s for so long. It's a f**king co-op game and so far I'm not seeing any cooperative nature on here. It's a bunch of smug, elitist, contrived players who suck too bad at other, actually competitive games. So they come on to these co-op titles to fill the insatiable hunger for confrontation and competition that usually remains expediated in actually competitive games. This is why game-balancing should be left to Edmonton solely and input from the BSN "community" should either be ignored or taken with a spoonful of salt. Since a grain hasn't cut it so far."

Modifié par Kyerea, 18 décembre 2012 - 10:14 .

[d_nought]

taplonaplo wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

ZoM_Head wrote...

It did very little damage to bosses. Several videos showing the Krysae being used/reviewed when released.

Great on goons, horrible on bosses.

No. No it didn't. Prenerf Krysae ruined everything www.youtube.com/watch

I remember every single gold lobby being 4 Krysae users. It was horrible.

It took 12 seconds to kill the prime from around 8:03 with more than one infiltrators firing at it. I don't have exact numbers but that's a pretty slow kill by todays standards.

By today's standards. But back in the day it did comparable damage to the Black Widow (~500 vs 600 at level X iirc), but at that time there was:

i) 100% enemy shieldgate, which the Krysae ignored

ii) No boss headshots

iii) The Krysae had (and still has) a *50% multiplier vs armor, superior to the damage bonus gained from a boss headshot (*40%) in today's metagame

With consumables on a GI (hurf durf), it could kill entire mobs in one shot if they were placed appropriately, and even then, you could kill Rocket Troopers/Centurions on Gold in one shot without even aiming. With the state of consumables then, the only way to get one shots on shielded Gold enemies with other snipers was with the Javelin X (debatable), and even then you had to get a headshot, and ALSO deal with the aim delay. In the state of its introduction, it obsoleted the Black Widow in such a way that the BW couldn't be buffed via .ini edits without bringing it into the realm of absurdity.

I agree with Sirian on his sentiments on the Harrier in that it is a jack-of-all-trades gun in the current metagame, although I wis there were more competitive options. I would really like to see a Rare AR version of the Collector Sniper Rifle.

Modifié par chipsandwich, 18 décembre 2012 - 10:17 .

[HusarX]

HolyAvenger wrote...


Prenerf Krysae ruined everything www.youtube.com/watch

I remember every single gold lobby being 4 Krysae users. It was horrible.

Looks balanced.

[KyreneZA]

I need a Phoenix Soldier before I'll use it...

[Hausner85]

Krysea is now useless. Before removing the charge mechanics you could make two fast shots. One with 1.75x bonus. Now this gun i pure horror, I much more prefer to take M13 Raptor to gold game.

Harrier. Better opinion the actual performance... Most people shooting long range go full auto and miss half the shots.... And if you don't go for headshots you will run out of clip before killing a centurion.... Still it's the game only true AR

Typhoon UR Heavy machine gun. Now it's really ok

Reegar not touching this (except Vorcha soldier i like to shoot lighting and fire). This gun i realty hugely in balanced

[Fixx21]

I love running out of ammo every 2 seconds.

[121210Olivia]

Well, I just finished about 4 hours game-play (Gold). Interestingly, in that time (about 8-9 games) the Harrier did not stand out as being overly overused.

At all.

Good games too:).

Modifié par 121210Olivia, 18 décembre 2012 - 10:58 .