393 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

Refuse is basically the Han'Gerrel gambit. Keep shooting until you're all dead when there was another way out.

Raise your hand if you're a refuser who punched him.

[Steelcan]

AlanC9 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Well in refuse everyone dies.  Everyone.  In Destroy the geth might die (if you didn't already kill them), and EDI kicks it.

So in order to keep from killing the geth a Refuse Shep... lets the Reapers kill the geth.

Quarians or Destroy beam not reapers, but yeah.  at least then their deaths are meaningful

[Jadebaby]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Shepard in Refuse "I am too moral to save billions of lives"

"I won't let fear compromise who I am..."



"... but I will let who I am compromise everybody's life trololololo."

These are the kinds of quotes I'm talking about in the OP, is it that hard to understand that without metagaming, you don't know you're going to lose? These kinds of quotes just ****** me off, especially when I already addressed it in the OP.

And as for, "But I will let who I am compromise everybody's life trlololol." Have you not seen the Synthesis ending?

[Dysjong]

What about the synthesis ending?

[ATiBotka]

Jade8aby88 wrote...


without metagaming, you don't know you're going to lose? 

The Crucible is our only chance, you knew it without metagaming.

[Steelcan]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Shepard in Refuse "I am too moral to save billions of lives"

"I won't let fear compromise who I am..."



"... but I will let who I am compromise everybody's life trololololo."

These are the kinds of quotes I'm talking about in the OP, is it that hard to understand that without metagaming, you don't know you're going to lose? These kinds of quotes just ****** me off, especially when I already addressed it in the OP.

And as for, "But I will let who I am compromise everybody's life trlololol." Have you not seen the Synthesis ending?

"We can't beat the reapers conventionally"
"The reapers are too strong to beat conventionally without the Crucible"


Lets try our luck......

[Jadebaby]

Dysjong wrote...

What about the synthesis ending?

You don't think it doesn't compromise their lives?

ATiBotka wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...


without metagaming, you don't know you're going to lose?

The Crucible is our only chance, you knew it without metagaming.

Wrong! We didn't even know what the damn thing did.

[Jadebaby]

@ Steel Can, sorry, as soon as i see someone mention the word "conventional" I tune out.

[ATiBotka]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Wrong! We didn't even know what the damn thing did.

Yet we wasted our resources to build it.

[Steelcan]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

@ Steel Can, sorry, as soon as i see someone mention the word "conventional" I tune out.

Well that's what Refuse banks on.  Conventional Victory, which we know isn't possible due to.... reasons.

[IBPROFEN]

Reorte wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I respect your choice, J. But the cost of that principle is too high. Too many die and the next cycle has to make a choice or the same thing happens again. So why delay that and let all those die? Better to do it now and get it over with.

My question would be this; Why does the cost of that principle have to be more severe than those of any other ending?

Why does sitting back and letting the Reapers kill everyone have to have a higher cost?

 Well if cost of ppls lives then why not Control that saves even more. When shepard takes over Reapers leave right then with no more lost lives and relays,tech are not destroyed.
 I picked refused after EC just wished I could have told Citboy the same way I told Tim on the collector ship.

[xtorma]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Shepard in Refuse "I am too moral to save billions of lives"

"I won't let fear compromise who I am..."



"... but I will let who I am compromise everybody's life trololololo."

These are the kinds of quotes I'm talking about in the OP, is it that hard to understand that without metagaming, you don't know you're going to lose? These kinds of quotes just ****** me off, especially when I already addressed it in the OP.

And as for, "But I will let who I am compromise everybody's life trlololol." Have you not seen the Synthesis ending?

It doesn't take a military genious to figure out the end result of war with the reapers.

[Jadebaby]

ATiBotka wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Wrong! We didn't even know what the damn thing did.

Yet we wasted our resources to build it.

And it was worth it to find out the truth about things, doesn't mean we have to use it...

Once again though, I'm not for a second defending refuse's result. [im really surprised I have to repeat that already].

[ATiBotka]

Steelcan wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

@ Steel Can, sorry, as soon as i see someone mention the word "conventional" I tune out.

Conventional Victory, which we know isn't possible due to.... reasons.

It isn't possible because of this

Modifié par ATiBotka, 17 décembre 2012 - 10:10 .

[BansheeOwnage]

Steelcan wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

@ Steel Can, sorry, as soon as i see someone mention the word "conventional" I tune out.

Well that's what Refuse banks on.  Conventional Victory, which we know isn't possible due to.... reasons.

Nah. The reapers are great at making themselves look better (and more numerous) tha they actually are. There is plenty of foreshadowing that the Crucible may be some sort of trap anyway, so not using it might be a smart decision.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 17 décembre 2012 - 10:13 .

[Wayning_Star]

I've always chosen synthesis for canon, as that is the demands of the MEU, end the cycle/reaper threat. I just figured that we'd end up back at square one anyway with the other choices. No metagaming needed for me. For some reason, the rational for the story led to the apex of existence within the MEU and being is the catalyst is just a byproduct of organic piddling, of course it would eventually return, just as humanity and other organics would just assume that synthetic life was just as important as organic life. The sad part of it being that altering mother nature to that extent couldn't be explained, nor the reprocussion of synthesis fully understood. But, if you think about, it's a little late to worry about it, and the refuse ending may just be a delay for this same reaction to the situation, in any event? So why refuse do to what no man/woman has done before. Peace at any cost.

We're stuck with synthesis, apparently.

If we just knew who the choice makers really were, we could have a better understanding of those choices as to why they were presented. but alas, there is no information available for those engineers.

[Jadebaby]

xtorma wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Shepard in Refuse "I am too moral to save billions of lives"

"I won't let fear compromise who I am..."



"... but I will let who I am compromise everybody's life trololololo."

These are the kinds of quotes I'm talking about in the OP, is it that hard to understand that without metagaming, you don't know you're going to lose? These kinds of quotes just ****** me off, especially when I already addressed it in the OP.

And as for, "But I will let who I am compromise everybody's life trlololol." Have you not seen the Synthesis ending?

It doesn't take a military genious to figure out the end result of war with the reapers.

People said Shepard would lose people on the suicide mission too.

Crucible has the power to disperse enough energy, use it to bring down Reaper's barriers, Then we could kick their arses.

@Steelcan, sorry, tuned out again....

[geceka]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Plus, even if it were successful, it's not like there wouldn't be any casualties at all. Therefore there could still be some consequences in choosing it, other than *everyone* dying.
Because, as it stands, that's the only part of refuse I can't stomach, is it's result (In fact, my canon romances Liara so I can't watch it at all). It really is indefensible.

I respect the Refuse ending and think that the ending scenes – even if they are very short – are nicely done (I think the last look we get of Shepard totally gets how conflicted he/she must feel).

However, I'd argue that actually without metagaming, it needs to be expected that the Reapers finish this cycle off, like they have countless times before. In the game world, you are repeatedly assured by everyone relevant (Hackett, the Prothean VI, etc...) that the Reapers can't be beat conventionally. The only way you could envision actually winning is by metagaming, because – ME3 being a game – there might be a chance to beat the odds (again). There is no in-universe evidence that might even give you the impression of having a chance.

Also, what I wonder most about in "Refuse" is how the next cycle (which actually defeats the Reapers with the Crucible, owing to Liara's time capsule) will judge Shepard: In their own cycle, nobody will ever now that Shepard doomed the cycle to extinction for whichever reasons they might have had – For them, the Crucible just didn't work. However, if the next cycle uses the Crucible, Shepard's actions might very well be documented somewhere. I'm not sure how history would judge such a Shepard (I'm not trying to be provocative here, I just genuinely wonder).

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

These are the kinds of quotes I'm talking about in the OP, is it that hard to understand that without metagaming, you don't know you're going to lose? These kinds of quotes just ****** me off, especially when I already addressed it in the OP.

Yes, very. Shepard knows more about the Reapers than anyone else in the galaxy, and the best plan he/she can come up with before the Crucible is, "We fight, or we die!" No other options besides the Crucible are explored either. So let's not pretend Refusers have something up their sleeve when they make their choice.

And as for, "But I will let who I am compromise everybody's life trlololol." Have you not seen the Synthesis ending?

Haven't you learned not to derail your own threads?

[Reorte]

IBPROFEN wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Why does sitting back and letting the Reapers kill everyone have to have a higher cost?

 Well if cost of ppls lives then why not Control that saves even more. When shepard takes over Reapers leave right then with no more lost lives and relays,tech are not destroyed.
 I picked refused after EC just wished I could have told Citboy the same way I told Tim on the collector ship.

Indeed, why not? That's a perfectly valid reason for picking Control. The reason I don't is because I don't trust it one inch and the liklihood of it going wrong and costing more in the long run seems high.

[Dysjong]

Jade8aby88

That depends. If i choice destroy, then i would kill all geth and EDI, which i couldnt do, i let the rachni Queen live in the first game.

Control didnt suitede me, because i told TIM that we were not ready for it.

Synthesis was the only solution for me, because i respect all life, including the geth. Plus that the older races who are reapers, won't be forgotten and the current cycle would benefit more from that wisdom.

It's a gamble, i already knew from the start but i had to do something.

[BansheeOwnage]

Dysjong wrote...

Jade8aby88

That depends. If i choice destroy, then i would kill all geth and EDI, which i couldnt do, i let the rachni Queen live in the first game.

Control didnt suitede me, because i told TIM that we were not ready for it.

Synthesis was the only solution for me, because i respect all life, including the geth. Plus that the older races who are reapers, won't be forgotten and the current cycle would benefit more from that wisdom.

It's a gamble, i already knew from the start but i had to do something.

If you respect all life, how can you possibly force something on everyone. I'm sorry, synthesis is inexcusable on the morality compass.

[Dysjong]

And so is destroy? Making legions sacrifice a joke? Atleast i sacrificed myself in order to give the Galaxy a chance for a better understanding. They are stil alive in synthesis and they can learn from the past cycles because of the reapers.

How that chance is affecting the rest of the galaxy, i don't know.

[tanisha__unknown]

Well, I usually choose refuse because it's the only option that actually makes sense if you're not metagaming and the only one which is actually in line with what Shepard would do.

[ThaDPG]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

@ Steel Can, sorry, as soon as i see someone mention the word "conventional" I tune out.

Well that's what Refuse banks on.  Conventional Victory, which we know isn't possible due to.... reasons.

Nah. The reapers are great at making themselves look better (and more numerous) tha they actually are. There is plenty of foreshadowing that the Crucible may be some sort of trap anyway, so not using it might be a smart decision.

Exactly, other than everyone TELLING you that conventional victory is impossible, there has been foreshadowing and hints throughout the series that the Reapers aren't as invincible and unstoppable as they either make themselves out to be, or think they are