393 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The moral of the story of Mass Effect is .... "no good deed goes unpunished."

[IBPROFEN]

Rip504 wrote...

Some could consider refusal an act of cowardice. Just saying.

 It could also be the last act of defiance couldn't it?(thinking about the mouse with middle finger at the hawk before it gets him).

[griot13]

Exactly, If I actually cared about the Geth and EDI I would choose Refuse allot more than Destroy...But I didn't really care...SO

[JasonShepard]

Jade8aby88 wrote...


Disclaimer: Literary Interpretation only.

Since my first canon playthrough being obviously Destroy, and then Extended Cut choosing refuse, I have been doing a lot of thinking about which ending best fits my canon's character, my character.

I have decided to choose refuse, this is based on a few reasons of which I will try to explain.

People in the past have said that refuse is the weak way out because you're failing to act and make a choice.

However, refuse is *the* hardest choice to actually make because of the fact that you're refusing. You're saying, look I know we spent the whole game building this thing, but what you're asking,  I can't do it, I wont. You're saying that you wont compromise in your role to win this war, and that you will fight to the death for what you believe is right.

But you're not just choosing to refuse the Catalyst because you don't like it's other choices or it's outcomes. You're also choosing to fight for everybody's freedom, and that is why refuse isn't inaction. Because that is the choice, to fight for everyone, and this is why it deserves a better ending because standing up for what you believe in shouldn't be rewarded with mass nihilism.
Plus, even if it were successful, it's not like there wouldn't be any casualties at all. Therefore there could still be some consequences in choosing it, other than *everyone* dying.
Because, as it stands, that's the only part of refuse I can't stomach, is it's result (In fact, my canon romances Liara so I can't watch it at all). It really is indefensible.

Also, not only did the Rannoch arc (if you made peace) disprove the Catalyst's assertions, but in the refuse ending you're once again choosing to fight for them too, treating them as an even truer equal, when you had another chance to destroy them. And that's what I prefer about Refuse over Destroy, because you're only proving the Catalyst right if you do destroy them.

So refuse haters, please recognize that if someone says they support refuse, the chances are they are supporting the choice to fight for everybody, at least moreso than they are supporting it's result.

Cool. I can respect that. I have to say, if Control wasn't so easy to headcanon into an (almost) perfect ending, I'd be giving Refuse a serious look in, even with the known result. Why? Because whatever Twitter Word of God says, I'm of the belief that the next cycle didn't use the Crucible: the Reapers were sufficiently weakened by fighting an entire united galaxy (for the potential reinforcement of... 1 Sovereign class and a handful of Destroyers) that they could be defeated by a cycle that had ample time to prepare and actually listened to the warnings. Our cycle was never going to win conventionally - the next cycle? That's a different question altogether.

[Peranor]

Steelcan wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Refuse is the epitome of honorable stupid. Just shoot the tube and be done with it.

I would argue that Destroy goes to honorabl stupid too. Shepard can't resist shooting that tube point blank.

Nah, that's just stupid

Since Bioware insist on having Commander Derpard walking in to the explosion they should just have had him lose his pistol and made him head-butt the pipe till it exploded instead.

[Dysjong]

Yeah, say that to the trillions of asaris, krogans, turians and all other races.

Again, i can accept refuse but is it just me, that feels that it's like betraying the rest of the galaxy?

[M Hedonist]

anorling wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Refuse is the epitome of honorable stupid. Just shoot the tube and be done with it.

I would argue that Destroy goes to honorabl stupid too. Shepard can't resist shooting that tube point blank.

Nah, that's just stupid

Since Bioware insist on having Commander Derpard walking in to the explosion they should just have had him lose his pistol and made him head-butt the pipe till it exploded instead.

Having to do a Heavy Melee attack on the pipe would've been epic.

[griot13]

anorling wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Refuse is the epitome of honorable stupid. Just shoot the tube and be done with it.

I would argue that Destroy goes to honorabl stupid too. Shepard can't resist shooting that tube point blank.

Nah, that's just stupid

Since Bioware insist on having Commander Derpard walking in to the explosion they should just have had him lose his pistol and made him head-butt the pipe till it exploded instead.

LOL:D

[Rip504]

Bill Casey wrote...


Shepard: I fight for freedom. I fight for the right to choose our own fate. And if I die, I'll die knowing that I did everything I could to stop you. And I'll die free.

In the Destroy/Control/Synthesis Ending,Shepard chooses the terms and the galaxy now lives in freedom and peace.



Each Choice has a consequence and one should weight the potential consequences of their actions. Everything in ME3 states we can not win w/o the Crucible. So the logical assumption should be we can not win w/o the Crucible.

Because Shepard chose not stop the Reapers,the galaxy now pays for it. IMO you can not justify your choice when it cost the life of every Innocent man,woman,and child of every civilized species. Trillions lost because you chose to let them die. <- Insinuated throughout ME3 if this war is to be fought w/o the Crucible.
Proven after the choice. Yet it is justified because Shepard(You) felt so. Really? Trillions lost because of your personal choice and somehow this is justified?

Just IMO though.

"A fourth option is provided to the player as an alternative to the original three. Shepard can now refuse to activate the Crucible,either through dialogue or by shooting at the Catalyst. This dooms the galaxy to another successful Reaper purge."  masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect_3:_Extended_Cut With or Without Metagaming the refusal choice is made clear to be the sacrifice of Trillions in the name of Shepard's personal opinion/feelings.

For those who defend the Geth joining the Reapers to survive or killing Billions to survive. Do you honestly think the entire galaxy(Including Geth) is now willing to die in the name of Shepard's beliefs? The Geth have shown a wanting to survive,so have the Krogan etc. Also how many and how long does/do the members of the Galaxy consider Shepard mistaken about the Reapers? How many times does someone disagree with Shepard? Now all of a sudden against everything in the ME Games,everyone is willing to die in the name of Shepard? Not IMO.

IBPROFEN wrote...

 It could also be the last act of defiance couldn't it?

If we are only considering Shepard's feeling and the outcome it will have on Shepard. While and only ignoring the fate of the galaxy.IMO

As the Galaxy has openly opposed Shepard for years,and every race in the galaxy has shown a will to live and survive. All of a sudden the entire galaxy feels as if Shepard feels and are willingly to die needlessly.

Modifié par Rip504, 17 décembre 2012 - 11:47 .

[M Hedonist]

Dysjong wrote...

Yeah, say that to the trillions of asaris, krogans, turians and all other races.

Again, i can accept refuse but is it just me, that feels that it's like betraying the rest of the galaxy?

That depends on how you look at it.
Did you unite the galaxy to get the Crucible working? Or did you unite the galaxy for the sake of uniting the galaxy?
Imo people shouldn't have blindly put their trust into the Crucible in the first place. I'm sure preperations were made if the Crucible didn't just happen to conveniently save the world.

[Dysjong]

And by refusing, im going against what i did. I united the galaxy for both. By refusing, im going against my own beliefs. Otherwise i could just be rid of the rachni queen in the first game, wouldnt give crap about the geths, and the krogans could die a slow death.

[Rip504]

Sauruz wrote...

Dysjong wrote...

Yeah, say that to the trillions of asaris, krogans, turians and all other races.

Again, i can accept refuse but is it just me, that feels that it's like betraying the rest of the galaxy?

That depends on how you look at it.
Did you unite the galaxy to get the Crucible working? Or did you unite the galaxy for the sake of uniting the galaxy?
Imo people shouldn't have blindly put their trust into the Crucible in the first place. I'm sure preperations were made if the Crucible didn't just happen to conveniently save the world.

But they did and it is the United Galaxy plans to use the Crucible,not die needlessly for Shepard's personal belief. Which makes more sense? The Galaxy wants to live in freedom and peace,or the galaxy wants to die needlessly for Shepard's personal beliefs?

[Wayning_Star]

Bill Casey wrote...

LastStand
DoomedMoralVictor
DefiantStoneThrow
DefiantToTheEnd
HonorBeforeReason
BolivianArmyEnding
EvilCannotComprehendGood

Child: Your time is at an end. You must decide.

Shepard: No. I'm going to end this war on my terms.

Child: Then you will die knowing you failed to save everything you fought for.

Shepard: I fight for freedom. I fight for the right to choose our own fate. And if I die, I'll die knowing that I did everything I could to stop you. And I'll die free.

Child:

__________________________________________________

Paragon Shepard: We'll fight and win without it. I won't let fear compromise who I am.

Samara: Only your actions will be remembered. May you choose them well.

Illusive Man: That idea is not so easily destroyed.

Child: Tell me another story about the Sheperd.

Shep has NO choices. That's the kicker in this story. No matter how we dramatize it. The catalyst holds the cards. Billions of years of experience and all the 'tech' utilized by Shepard to upend it. Sure you can 'pretend' to destroy it, but you cannot destroy what you cannot control. The idea will resurface as the destroy folly, and those it effects directly, namely synthetic life. Create and destroy. See the pattern?

Only one entity can control the catalyst and it's experiment. Who is that? No body knows, especially the Shepards.


Who designed the crucible and it's choices menu?  How did they know what is known about the catalyst and it's programming, how to violate that organization? Interpret it's folly, understand it's science? End the cycle?

We may never know, and yet we 'know for a certainty, what will "win" in the endgame.


in·ter·pret
/inˈtərprit/






Verb






Explain the meaning of (information, words, or actions): "interpret the evidence".
Translate orally the words of another person speaking a different language.



Synonyms




explain - construe - translate - read - expound - render

[M Hedonist]

Rip504 wrote...

In the Destroy/Control/Synthesis Ending,Shepard chooses the terms and the galaxy now lives in freedom and peace.

In Destroy, everyone but the Geth get to live in freedom and peace.
In Control, the galaxy will be policed by the Reapers for the rest of eternity, whom are controlled by a Shepard who does not consider himself to be human anymore. That's the worst kind of dictator.
In Synthesis, you change all life irreversibly, without knowing whether it's truly for the better or the worse. Plus, the Reapers get to stick around, so there's that.
That's how I see it.

[M Hedonist]

Rip504 wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Dysjong wrote...

Yeah, say that to the trillions of asaris, krogans, turians and all other races.

Again, i can accept refuse but is it just me, that feels that it's like betraying the rest of the galaxy?

That depends on how you look at it.
Did you unite the galaxy to get the Crucible working? Or did you unite the galaxy for the sake of uniting the galaxy?
Imo people shouldn't have blindly put their trust into the Crucible in the first place. I'm sure preperations were made if the Crucible didn't just happen to conveniently save the world.

But they did and it is the United Galaxy plans to use the Crucible,not die needlessly for Shepard's personal belief. Which makes more sense? The Galaxy wants to live in freedom and peace,or the galaxy wants to die needlessly for Shepard's personal beliefs?

They planned to fight the Reapers, first and foremost. And that is what they do.
There seems to be a common misconception that choosing Refuse somehow kills all life in the galaxy in an instant. But it doesn't. It doesn't even necessarily kill all life eventually.

Modifié par Sauruz, 17 décembre 2012 - 11:50 .

[Rip504]

Sauruz wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

In the Destroy/Control/Synthesis Ending,Shepard chooses the terms and the galaxy now lives in freedom and peace.

In Destroy, everyone but the Geth get to live in freedom and peace.
In Control, the galaxy will be policed by the Reapers for the rest of eternity, whom are controlled by a Shepard who does not consider himself to be human anymore. That's the worst kind of dictator.
In Synthesis, you change all life irreversibly, without knowing whether it's truly for the better or the worse. Plus, the Reapers get to stick around, so there's that.
That's how I see it.

They are still Alive and free.
Ignore everything else stated as well LOL. Dictator is based on a baseless assumption.
Lmao where did I say the death was Instant? What we learn from the previous Reaper cycles is that they Kill and/or Harvest all life No matter the time it takes. "The slaughter of an entire ... is a long and slow Process" Javik. Refusal allows the Reaper cycle to continue and be succseful. Are we even playing the same games?

Here since I feel the need to restate this.

Rip504 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...


Shepard:
I fight for freedom. I fight for the right to choose our own fate. And
if I die, I'll die knowing that I did everything I could to stop you.
And I'll die free.

In the Destroy/Control/Synthesis Ending,Shepard chooses the terms and the galaxy now lives in freedom and peace.



Each Choice has a consequence and one should weight the potential consequences of their actions. Everything in ME3 states we can not win w/o the Crucible. So the logical assumption should be we can not win w/o the Crucible.

Because Shepard chose not stop the Reapers,the galaxy now pays for it. IMO you can not justify your choice when it cost the life of every Innocent man,woman,and child of every civilized species. Trillions lost because you chose to let them die. <- Insinuated throughout ME3 if this war is to be fought w/o the Crucible.
Proven after the choice. Yet it is justified because Shepard(You) felt so. Really? Trillions lost because of your personal choice and somehow this is justified?

Just IMO though.

"A fourth option is provided to the player as an alternative to the original three. Shepard can now refuse to activate the Crucible,either through dialogue or by shooting at the Catalyst. This dooms the galaxy to another successful
Reaper purge."  masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect_3:_Extended_Cut With or Without Metagaming the refusal choice is made clear to be the sacrifice of Trillions in the name of Shepard's personal opinion/feelings.

For those who defend the Geth joining the Reapers to survive or killing Billions to survive. Do you honestly think
the entire galaxy(Including Geth) is now willing to die in the name of Shepard's beliefs? The Geth have shown a wanting to survive,so have the Krogan etc. Also how many and how long does/do the members of the Galaxy consider Shepard mistaken about the Reapers? How many times does someone disagree with Shepard? Now all of a sudden against everything in the ME Games,everyone is willing to die in the name of Shepard? Not IMO.

IBPROFEN wrote...

 It could also be the last act of defiance couldn't it?

If we are only considering Shepard's feeling and the outcome it will have on Shepard. While and only ignoring the fate of the galaxy.IMO

As the Galaxy has openly opposed Shepard for years,and every race in the galaxy has shown a will to live and survive. All of a sudden the entire galaxy feels as if Shepard feels and are willingly to die needlessly.

Modifié par Rip504, 17 décembre 2012 - 11:57 .

[Dysjong]

Refuse does have one good thing. If the rest of the galaxy knew what Shepard did..... Oh the horror

Gotta hand it to the ending. It's one sad and horrible truth.

Modifié par Dysjong, 17 décembre 2012 - 11:52 .

[M Hedonist]

Rip504 wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

In the Destroy/Control/Synthesis Ending,Shepard chooses the terms and the galaxy now lives in freedom and peace.

In Destroy, everyone but the Geth get to live in freedom and peace.
In Control, the galaxy will be policed by the Reapers for the rest of eternity, whom are controlled by a Shepard who does not consider himself to be human anymore. That's the worst kind of dictator.
In Synthesis, you change all life irreversibly, without knowing whether it's truly for the better or the worse. Plus, the Reapers get to stick around, so there's that.
That's how I see it.

They are still Alive and free.
Ignore everything else stated as well LOL. Dictator is based on a baseless assumption.

The Geth are not alive and free.
Control!Shepard is the de facto most powerful being in the galaxy, and he is actively policing it with his giant death machines. What is he gonna do if people start developing weapons that can destroy Reapers or threaten his existence? Ask them politely to stop? You can't police an entire galaxy for eternity without getting your hands dirty.
If that assumption is baseless, so is the assumption that Refuse kills everybody.

[Rip504]

Sauruz wrote...

The Geth are not alive and free.
Control!Shepard is the de facto most powerful being in the galaxy, and he is actively policing it with his giant death machines. What is he gonna do if people start developing weapons that can destroy Reapers or threaten his existence? Ask them politely to stop? You can't police an entire galaxy for eternity without getting your hands dirty.
If that assumption is baseless, so is the assumption that Refuse kills everybody.

Is this serious? Or are you trolling me?

Do not speak of the sacrifice of the Geth when you are willing to sacrifice trillions for your personal beliefs. At least the Reapers are stopped and this cycle can honor their sacrifice. While living in freedom and peace. Instead of dieing in pain and misery in the name of Shepard(You).

Yours is a baseless assumption. I have three games stating that the Reapers wipe out all civilized life each cycle. Protheans or did you forget about the history of the Reapers? Also form the Wiki Link provided in Previous post.

"A fourth option is provided to the player as an alternative to the original three. Shepard can now refuse to activate the Crucible,either through dialogue or by shooting at the Catalyst. This dooms the galaxy to another successful Reaper purge."

 

Modifié par Rip504, 18 décembre 2012 - 12:03 .

[M Hedonist]

Rip504 wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

The Geth are not alive and free.
Control!Shepard is the de facto most powerful being in the galaxy, and he is actively policing it with his giant death machines. What is he gonna do if people start developing weapons that can destroy Reapers or threaten his existence? Ask them politely to stop? You can't police an entire galaxy for eternity without getting your hands dirty.
If that assumption is baseless, so is the assumption that Refuse kills everybody.

Is this serious? Or are you trolling me?

Do not speak of the sacrifice of the Geth when you are willing to sacrifice trillions for your personal beliefs. At least the Reapers are stopped and this cycle can honor their sacrifice. While living in freedom and peace. Instead of dieing in pain and misery in the name of Shepard(You).

Yours is a baseless assumption. I have three games stating that the Reapers wipe out all civilized life each cycle. Protheans or did you forget about the history of the Reapers? Also form the Wiki Link provided in Previous post.

"A fourth option is provided to the player as an alternative to the original three. Shepard can now refuse to activate the Crucible,either through dialogue or by shooting at the Catalyst. This dooms the galaxy to another successful Reaper purge."

The wiki says it, therefore it must be true? Now I have to ask you whether you are serious.
The Protheans managed to get a living Prothean into the next cycle. And the current cycle is much better prepared than the Protheans were. From what Javik tells us, the Protheans were completely disorganized - yet they managed to preserve so much for the next cycle. Even the Catalyst pretty much admits that the current cycle has gotten further than any other cycle before.
You are sacrificing the Geth. And I will keep reminding you no matter how much you hate to hear it.

[Cyberfrog81]

Dysjong wrote...

Yeah, say that to the trillions of asaris, krogans, turians and all other races.

Again, i can accept refuse but is it just me, that feels that it's like betraying the rest of the galaxy?

Nah, the "betrayal" endings are Synthesis and Control.

[Dysjong]

I have give Sauruz partialty right in this.

But then it comes to how you(the player) view each race. If you don't give a crap about the geth or EDI, then destroy makes sense. It's a gamble, because the reaper accident could happen again.

Control is also a gamble, because you become something more but you are not truly alive, more like aware.

Synthesis is by far,the biggest gamble, sinds you change the whole galaxy for whatever reasons you can come up with. I have said mine.

Refuse... Im not sure would call it a gamble but it is there. As Sauruz pointed out, not everybody trusts the catalyst, which is understandable.

[Dysjong]

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

Dysjong wrote...

Yeah, say that to the trillions of asaris, krogans, turians and all other races.

Again, i can accept refuse but is it just me, that feels that it's like betraying the rest of the galaxy?

Nah, the "betrayal" endings are Synthesis and Control.

according to you

[M Hedonist]

Dysjong wrote...

I have give Sauruz partialty right in this.

But then it comes to how you(the player) view each race. If you don't give a crap about the geth or EDI, then destroy makes sense. It's a gamble, because the reaper accident could happen again.

Control is also a gamble, because you become something more but you are not truly alive, more like aware.

Synthesis is by far,the biggest gamble, sinds you change the whole galaxy for whatever reasons you can come up with. I have said mine.

Refuse... Im not sure would call it a gamble but it is there. As Sauruz pointed out, not everybody trusts the catalyst, which is understandable.

Right, every ending is a gamble to some extent. I wouldn't say Destroy, though. It's the one ending where you pretty much get exactly what you were promised. I don't know whether the whole Reaper thing could really happen again, or whether the other endings truly stop that threat from happening, though... but now we're getting side-tracked.
But when did I say the Catalyst can't be trusted?

[Dysjong]

Sauruz wrote...

Dysjong wrote...

Yeah, say that to the trillions of asaris, krogans, turians and all other races.

Again, i can accept refuse but is it just me, that feels that it's like betraying the rest of the galaxy?

That depends on how you look at it.
Did you unite the galaxy to get the Crucible working? Or did you unite the galaxy for the sake of uniting the galaxy?
Imo people shouldn't have blindly put their trust into the Crucible in the first place. I'm sure preperations were made if the Crucible didn't just happen to conveniently save the world.