199 réponses à ce sujet

[SeanThen1]

Even with the buff, the Paladin is superior to the Saber simply due to the better mods available to pistols. Either 40% damage if you typically can't hit the head, or 40% Headshot damage if you can hit it consistently.

The AR's only advantage is clip size.

[InArts]

Saber has much less crosshair bloom than the Paladin, and it bothers me that I can't shoot the paladin at full ROF without sacrificing some accuracy.

[mrcanada]

I think the Saber is superior, but right now it's debatable. What the Saber needs is just a slight ROF enhancement and it would be perfect.

[SeanThen1]

mrcanada wrote...

I think the Saber is superior, but right now it's debatable. What the Saber needs is just a slight ROF enhancement and it would be perfect.

That, or better mods for the AR class. How about a ROF mod? That would be insane.

[Curzyfish]

jrm_ayun wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

jrm_ayun wrote...

Titus Thongger wrote...

Cowwy seems to have a personal vendetta against anyone who so much as smiles sheepishly at the saber.

Lol I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe just stressed from the responses. I do agree the Paladin is a better gun and people before have already said that. Just that the thread title and original post are different in views.

But here's the thing: the Paladin is not better. At all. It does less damage per shot, has lower sustained DPS, is less accurate, and has a smaller clip and smaller ammo reserve. The only advantage it has is weight, which on the weapons classes with which the Saber is typically used is not a primary concern. So the OP is just flat wrong. The Saber is a better gun.

A seperate issue might be that the Saber isn't powerful enough for the weight class it is in. I haven't given it a lot of thought lately, but I would think you could make a strong argument this is the case.

If the numbers posted in N7HQ is right then no the Paladin has higher DPS even at a lower level especially reload cancelled but I do love the Saber and that ooh so sexy sound

Only burst dps, and consider that your burst time with the paladin is much less than half of the sabers (faster ROF / smaller clip) so the burst dps of the saber is much more meaningful.  Really though, if you are laying down headshots you are definitely not making full use of the ROF of the paladin, and probably not even of the saber's anyways.  DPS only really matters if you want to compare to atlases etc, where they come out basically even.

EDIT: I never spell definitely right the first time.

Modifié par Curzyfish, 18 décembre 2012 - 03:22 .

[mrcanada]

SeanThen1 wrote...

mrcanada wrote...

I think the Saber is superior, but right now it's debatable. What the Saber needs is just a slight ROF enhancement and it would be perfect.

That, or better mods for the AR class. How about a ROF mod? That would be insane.

Unlocking more mods would be most people's nightmare. They can change ROF in weekly balance adjustments. Increase the Saber, Falcon and Krysae just a tad and away we go.

[Trontor]

mrcanada wrote...

I think the Saber is superior, but right now it's debatable. What the Saber needs is just a slight ROF enhancement and it would be perfect.

Not sure about slight, but it definitely needs a better Rate Of Fire.

[darkblade]

saber needs nothing, stop trying to lower the skill ceilings for weapons.

[UKStory135]

Independent of the Paladin, the Saber is not nearly as good of an assault rifle as the other UR's. The gun is amazing in the hands of the Ghost, but so is the Harrier, PPR, and Typhoon.

Personally, I never use the Paladin or the Saber, since the Valiant at a similar level is better at the same job than both of them, but the idea that a Pistol with similar functions and half the weight can have a higher DPS than a UR Assault Rifle is silly to me.

IMHO, the Saber needs to some AP and a bonus headshot multiplier to be worth its weight, slow fire rate, and ridiculous reload speed.

[ladyvader]

What's this Saber gun you people are talking about? It's the only gun I don't have open. :/

[chefcook90]

SeanThen1 wrote...

Even with the buff, the Paladin is superior to the Saber simply due to the better mods available to pistols. Either 40% damage if you typically can't hit the head, or 40% Headshot damage if you can hit it consistently.

The AR's only advantage is clip size.

And accuracy.
And armor piercing.

[Randomical]

Marksman + two Saber clips = dead Praetorian.
Though I prefer Paladin for casters. Obviously.

[cowwy]

[quote]Deerber wrote...

[quote]tyhw wrote...

[quote]Deerber wrote...

Actually, it''s once a second if you reload cancel properly. Saber shoots just a bit faster. But that doesn't mean much, as it's its bad side and you should try to work on that with RoF-boosting abilities. Which won't work as well on a Claymore.

Not even mentioning the fact that you can get headshots 2 kms farther than claymore can get 1 pellet on the body...
[/quote]

No, 2 seconds is right.  You have to wait for the RoF (64) before the reload starts.  Try hand timing yourself and you'll see getting better than 2 seconds is very good.   Also, use the wraith, acolyte, or krysae to better see this effect.

[/quote]

My bad.

Sorry about that. I didn't know you have to add the RoF to the reload time and I saw 1 sec in Cyonan's sheet  Well, you might call me stupid, but I like the fact that after a while of being here, I still have loads of things to learn :happy:

So, is that the mechanism by which if I have a RoF boosting ability that will cut down my reload time as well?

Oh and thanks for pointing that out, sorry Aedolon 

[quote]jrm_ayun wrote...

If the numbers posted in N7HQ is right then no the Paladin has higher DPS even at a lower level especially reload cancelled but I do love the Saber and that ooh so sexy sound

[/quote]

No clue if they're accurate, but I'm sure that these https://docs.google....put=html&gid=10 are more accurate. And the Saber has got better multi-clip DPS than the Paladin, along with better accuracy and lots of other advantages.

[quote]cowwy wrote...

Here's the deal, I'm fully aware that cooldown isn't the end all be all. However, I could bring a Paladin and a Wraith for about the same weight as the Saber alone. So what's your point, some classes don't care about cooldown, congrats, you made your point. My point is that if I was going to cost myself the encumbrance of the Saber, why not just bring a PPR?

[/quote]

Please, tell me you're joking. This argument started off as one of the few around here with a sense. Still wrong in my opinion, but I could see your points and see what your thoughts were and why. But please stop doing stupid comparisons like this, cause they will only make people think it's better not to argue anymore and just tell you that you're wrong.[/quote]
[/quote]

The only reason I brought up the PPR is because everyone keeps saying that if you bring a Paladin you can't bring an Acolyte. I'm well aware that the PPR and Saber are completely different guns with completely different purposes, I just wanted to make the point that there are far better weapons with the same weight as the Saber.

[cowwy]

Javo2357 wrote...

My point is it depends on what you want your primary method of killing enemies to be. If you want run a character that can one-shot/headshot mooks the Saber does a great job. Taking the Paladin as your primary weapon, won't be as effective if this is your goal because you have to reload every 3 shots unless you equip the Pisto Mag Mod. Also, Saber has more reserve ammo.

Another thing that most people overlook about the Saber is that it reliably staggers most mooks with bodyshots, much more so than the Paladin.

People overlook it because it's not true.

Cyonan wrote...

Weapons don't actually have force, but as
noted they have hit reaction chances instead, which vary based on where
you hit the target. Enemies also all have their own modifier for hit
reactions which gives them a resistance to it.

All of those factors combined makes it a bit to say to something like "The Disciple has a 100% chance of staggering the target".

It
would be more like "The Disciple has a 100% chance of staggering the
target if you hit them in the head, but if you're hitting a Geth Prime
then it's reduced by 60%".

(Those aren't actual numbers btw, I just made them up for the example)

[GunWraith]

I'm still waiting for OP to address my post and the massive crosshair bloom on the Paladin after each successive shot which drastically affects it's accuracy at long range for double-taps.

[lightswitch]

chefcook90 wrote...

SeanThen1 wrote...

Even with the buff, the Paladin is superior to the Saber simply due to the better mods available to pistols. Either 40% damage if you typically can't hit the head, or 40% Headshot damage if you can hit it consistently.

The AR's only advantage is clip size.

And accuracy.
And armor piercing.

Where did this rumor start? No innate armor piercing on the Saber.

cowwy wrote...

The only reason I brought up the PPR is because everyone keeps saying that if you bring a Paladin you can't bring an Acolyte. I'm well aware that the PPR and Saber are completely different guns with completely different purposes, I just wanted to make the point that there are far better weapons with the same weight as the Saber.

Most of the time a PPR is a better weapon than the Saber, I won't argue with you on that. But here's the caveat: due to the warm up time on the PPR, I personally can kill mooks much faster with the Saber. When I'm actually shooting to my potential (which is certainly not most of the time), it's not too difficult for me to rip apart whole spawns of mooks with the Saber in a very short amount of time. On the other hand, I doubt it's possible on any class for the Saber to be as effective as the PPR against bosses.

The bottom line with the Saber is that it is a niche weapon. It's not like a Harrier where any player can slap it on literally any class and it will perform well. It is excellent on only 3 maybe 4 classes, and furthermore if you don't consistently land headshots then forget about it. It also will never match more prominent weapons in terms of boss killing ability. But here is its' niche: it is the only gun with a large clip that is deadly to mooks at any range and does not require quickscoping at short range. In hands of the right player and equipped on a properly specced kit, the Saber is capable of being a powerful force.

[Poison_Berrie]

lightswitch wrote...

chefcook90 wrote...

And accuracy.
And armor piercing.

Where did this rumor start? [b]No innate armor piercing on the Saber.

Better armor piercing mod. The main reason brought up for the Paladin being better than the Saber seems to be the headshot or heavy barrel.

[darkpassenger2342]

it is. not alot better, and not pure dps, but better.

bigger clip, staggers, better for hipfire.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 19 décembre 2012 - 10:41 .

[Tyrannus00]

Personally, I hate reloading every five seconds with the Paladin.

[ArcaptSSX]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

chefcook90 wrote...

And accuracy.
And armor piercing.

Where did this rumor start? [b]No innate armor piercing on the Saber.

Better armor piercing mod. The main reason brought up for the Paladin being better than the Saber seems to be the headshot or heavy barrel.

AP has little interest on a weapon with such high damage per shot. After putting extended barrel, getting your passives (~10% at least), probably a gear mod with 12% damage, you're already at 750 damage/shot on a Saber V. That's a loss of less than 7% damage due to gold/plat-level armor.

Regarding PPR, the kit with which i have the most problems against phantoms is probably the Tsent which i play with PPR. You're much safer with a Saber, though less efficient overall.

Modifié par JohnBobbyTheThird, 19 décembre 2012 - 10:55 .

[cowwy]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

it is. not alot better, and not pure dps, but better.

bigger clip, staggers, better for hipfire.

Doesn't stagger any more reliably than the Paladin, or any other gun for that matter, I don't know where people are getting this from, but it's wrong.

[cowwy]

GunWraith wrote...

I'm still waiting for OP to address my post and the massive crosshair bloom on the Paladin after each successive shot which drastically affects it's accuracy at long range for double-taps.

Either use a scope or pace your shots. If you're trying to fire at the maximum fire rate while not in cover with a pistol from one side of the map to the other and at a mook or a small target then, quite frankly, you're doing it wrong.

Massive run-on ftw.

[GunWraith]

cowwy wrote...

GunWraith wrote...

I'm still waiting for OP to address my post and the massive crosshair bloom on the Paladin after each successive shot which drastically affects it's accuracy at long range for double-taps.

Either use a scope or pace your shots. If you're trying to fire at the maximum fire rate while not in cover with a pistol from one side of the map to the other and at a mook or a small target then, quite frankly, you're doing it wrong.

Massive run-on ftw.

So use another mod on the pistol to make it 'better' than a Saber? You asked for reasons why the Saber is better than the Paladin, yet you brush off every example with "Oh, just use XXX mod and it compensates." There are only two mod slots. If you use a scope and heavy barrel, you get 3 shots and 33 reserve with no AP unless you add ammo mods. You can easily make cross map double tap shots with the Saber with the regular sights, allowing you to put an extended barrel and AP mod. When you do this you still have 8 shots and 40 in reserve, plus you have more freedom to choose an Ammo mod other than AP.

I will repost my original examples as well, since you conveniently ignore them in your crusade to show that the Paladin is better than the Saber in every way.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paladin

- 3 shot clip/33 reserve with AP mod
- 5 shot clip/33 reserve with Mag mod
- Due to the sight pattern on the Paladin it is harder to double tap successfully at long range
- Weight is only an issue on certain classes and I find the Acolyte works better on most of those classes

Saber

- 8 shot clip/40 reserve with AP mod
- 14 shot clip/56 reserve with Mag mod
- Far better accuracy at range due to tighter sight pattern


To
sum up, I've had both at X for a long time and I have never liked the
way the Paladin works at long range. It is great at short to mid range,
but realistically it is replaceable by rare pistols (Acolyte/Arc) in that role and
bested easily by the Talon.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The fact is both weapons are very good in the role they were intended for. If you plan on using powers and making short to mid range shots, the Paladin is a good fit. If you plan on making mid to long range shots and powers are not your main dps output, the Saber is a good fit. Evidence as well as experienced player comments show that each gun is going to perform better in the role it was intended for. You continue to try and compare the Saber at it's weakest against the Paladin at it's strongest, of course the Paladin is going to outclass the Saber if you are using it in the wrong way.

[darkpassenger2342]

cowwy wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

it is. not alot better, and not pure dps, but better.

bigger clip, staggers, better for hipfire.

Doesn't stagger any more reliably than the Paladin, or any other gun for that matter, I don't know where people are getting this from, but it's wrong.

 no its not, the saber staggers bosses easily and the paladin doesnt.

 i dont have the stuff to make videos so youll have to expect it to be proven by someone elses video.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 21 décembre 2012 - 09:01 .

[cowwy]

GunWraith wrote...

cowwy wrote...

GunWraith wrote...

I'm
still waiting for OP to address my post and the massive crosshair bloom
on the Paladin after each successive shot which drastically affects
it's accuracy at long range for double-taps.

Either use a
scope or pace your shots. If you're trying to fire at the maximum fire
rate while not in cover with a pistol from one side of the map to the
other and at a mook or a small target then, quite frankly, you're doing
it wrong.

Massive run-on ftw.

*snip

The
fact is both weapons are very good in the role they were intended for.
If you plan on using powers and making short to mid range shots, the
Paladin is a good fit. If you plan on making mid to long range shots and
powers are not your main dps output, the Saber is a good fit. Evidence
as well as experienced player comments show that each gun is going to
perform better in the role it was intended for. You continue to try and
compare the Saber at it's weakest against the Paladin at it's strongest,
of course the Paladin is going to outclass the Saber if you are using
it in the wrong way.

But if you were trying to be making long range shots, you'd bring a sniper rifle, a Valiant, Black Widow, or Indra all occupy the long range niche, even though I don't agree with your assessment. And all the Paladin needs to be at it's strongest is the Heavy Barrel, and maybe a magazine mod if you don't like reloading that often, while the Saber needs Marksman to truly excel. My point isn't that the Saber is bad, it's just the fact that it shouldn't even be debatable that it's better than the Paladin, because of how heavy it is, it should have better DPS capabilities to offset the Power recharge penalty you have to incur.

Modifié par cowwy, 21 décembre 2012 - 09:52 .