157 réponses à ce sujet

[Vilegrim]

Plaintiff wrote...

I think it's ridiculous for mages to wear floor-length robes generally, it's one of the more irritating tropes of fantasy fiction for me, and I curse the day it was first written.

It has been a 'trope' since the idea of Magus entered western thought, the robes used to be the mark of a scholar or holy man, that is why monk wear them to this day.  Druids wore them as far as we can tell, Greek philosphers wore something close, that is why as far back as, well , Merlin the 'wise man' wears a robe.

esper wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

How powerful Varric is that he can make the whole order blinded?

yes
he can bribe some Templars, but sure not the high ranking Templars. And
not to mention that Hawke involve is big issues not small ones.

If
Hawke is not pro-Templar and showing his/her anti-Templar attitude all
the time, offending the order, it is unbelievable he/she can be too
comfortable in Kirkwal, even with Varric protection.

In
da:o you could walk around with a party of a Golem, A Qunari (the race)
and potentially two mages, I don't remember that causing any problem.

It
is a general problem in both games not just da2. In da:o, I chalked it
upto people not wanting to cross the party of killing machines, and in
da2 I chalked it up to much of the same. Plus Kirkwalls templars weren't
exactly the orders finest and least currupt and Cullen and Trask
personally owed you favours.

I have a mental image of Cullen
going debunking any rumours in front of Meridith because he knows that
Hawke would mercesslessly kill anyone trying to arrest her (And the one
to arrest her would likely be him).

In DA:O you got a pass for being a Gray Warden. 

Modifié par Vilegrim, 19 décembre 2012 - 03:35 .

[HTTP 404]

Rawgrim wrote...

i never really understood why apostates would wear robes. i mean, they are supposed to be in hiding. walking around in a robe just screams "mage".

and don't forget carrying staffs.   I think they should bring wands in as a weapon of choice for apostate mages.

[LobselVith8]

Nizaris1 wrote...

It is the reason i make my Mage Hawke only learn passive-defensive spells like Telekinetic and Force Mage specialization, it give the immersion she don't fancy casting spells here and there because Telekinetic spells is like Psychic power, Prof Xavier or Jean kind of power in X-Men. It is an "unseen Force" (although the visual graphic showing that)

I think using spells akin to telekinesis would make it apparent that the protagonist is a mage, even though they aren't as "flashy" as blood magic spells or some of the other standard Circle spells. The fact that Hawke and Carver discussed the former being an apostate right in front of the templar recruit Kerran, without any concern that Kerran might reveal this fact to his superiors, was one of the many examples of how Hawke being an apostate is pretty much handwaved throughout the storyline.

Nizaris1 wrote...

Hawke can move around freely in Kirkwall can be justified if she is a Pro-Templar and Carver join the Templar. It is like she become a Templar pet among the apostates, so the Knight Commander use her as her pet. (But of course i side the Circle Mage in the end, lol). But what bother me is dialogues, there are a lot of dialogues peoples and Templars didn't realize Hawke is apostate Mage. Especially Cullen when he say "Mages are not like you and me" when Hawke argue with him.

I disagree. I don't think that aspect of the narrative makes sense, even if Hawke is a pro-templar apostate. Loyalist mages still have to live inside the Circle Tower, and having an open apostate live outside the Circle Tower can establish a precedent.

As for no one recognizing that apostate Hawke is a mage, that's pretty much the problem throughout Dragon Age II. The story never even bothers to address Sebastian dealing with Hawke being an apostate, despite him contemplating exposing Merrill and Anders to the Order of Templars since they are apostates. I think that would have been interesting to see unfold.

Nizaris1 wrote...

If Hawke is anti-Templar then it is ridiculous no matter how powerful Hawke is, as an apostate Mage who live in Templar city she cannot survive offending the order all the time.

Regardless of whether Hawke is pro-mage or pro-templar, he would still have to live inside the Circle Tower if he was exposed as a mage.

Nizaris1 wrote...

Anders can be justified as a Grey Warden, so the Templar even the Knight Commander cannot say anything about it. Grey Wardens are not belong to anything thing, they are above the law no matter during the Blight or outside the Blight, Anders is a member of the order. But what bother me is like that title, Grey Warden, like being nothing in the game, especially if the Warden in DA:O is a Mage. If play as non-Mage Hawke, Hawke can say "Anders is a Grey Warden, he deserve respect" something like that to Fenris, and only that, there are no further regard toward Grey Warden in the game, and Anders being overshadowed as the same with all other apostate Mages. He have to live underground while he suuposed not to become like that, like any other apostates.

The only Mage characters that are not under any "protection" are Merill and Bethany. 

Anders and Merrill are supposed to be protected by their friendship with Hawke (post-Champion status), as Anders is technically an apostate now, and no longer an active member of the Grey Wardens. Meredith addresses this to Anders when he blames her for what happened in Act III (if Hawke doesn't blame her initially when he returns to her office in "On the Loose").

[Huntress]

I think Robes are fine for mages, is cloth very light and mages needs to move their arms and body to cast spells or curses, the more the armor weight the slower it takes to cast a spells.

The Staff could be seen as a walking stick to anyone or a very powerful weapon to others, in a fantasy world many of this staff come with magical abilities and only creatures with magic can use and exploit.


Walking stick are been used by travelers since.. ever.

So no templars will not stop people just for walking with an stick..

Now open you're mind and see Thedas this way:
The Circle of magi has their own brand of staff's+ clothing that way if any mage scape they can be easily detected by the way their dress, in Da2 a mage gave to hawke her staff, why? because it carries Starkheavens mark!
Now Apostate do not walk naked in thedas they use cloth, just think of morrigan now imagine every apostate out there wearing stolen commun people cloth's.

The only way to find out if this person is a mages is if the mage didn't destroyed his phylactery or one of his old "friends" recognize him , so if this apostates did everything right they can go around and pass as "normal" travelers.

[sunnydxmen]

they can give mages clothing that's not armor but is enchanted to give them protection in combat,it could look like normal people clothing with different styles, like spandex pants or shorts or loos pants in shorts.

[deuce985]

Plaintiff wrote...

I think it's ridiculous for mages to wear floor-length robes generally, it's one of the more irritating tropes of fantasy fiction for me, and I curse the day it was first written.

This, this and this! For the love of god DA3, please buck the trend...

Give me some freaking light armor and not robes/dresses/dunce caps. Is it not reasonable to think a mage can wear stuff like the mage's champion set in DA2? C'mon...they're battle mages. The armor is so bad, it basically pushes me away from playing the class...I hate their armor that much in fantasy games.

If you insist on robes like that, then at least make it clothing underneath armor. Like Dragon's Dogma does. You can equip both clothing and armor in some slots like the body.

I love mages in fantasy RPGs! But they never have cool looking armor dammit. I want to look cool like the dang warriors/rogues too! I'm not saying run around with 400lbs of armor on but give me freaking armor...something that's logical for a mage in combat.

Modifié par deuce985, 20 décembre 2012 - 06:56 .

[xsdob]

You know your right. I never did like the dragon age robes, one of the main reasons I speced for an arcane warrior was just so I could wear things other than robes.

Also the dalish seem to have caught on to this fact, or at least the keepers have. Wearing pants, risky, but highly practical.

Modifié par xsdob, 20 décembre 2012 - 07:59 .

[Commander Kurt]

Hmm.. I don't mind the robes from an aestethic point of view, the hats are... a different story.

However, I do find myself curious about the argument that robes are silly on apostates. I get that you feel this way, and it's really no different from wanting the game to acknowledge a LI or a charachter death or something so I don't really question your point, but I'm wondering.

Where does this rate on the scale?
1. Hauling around 100+ items, apparently without even having pockets.
2. Leaving the house at night without a sweater (Hawke lives with his mother, right?)
3. Performing a massacre while bystanders continue with their shopping.
4. Your house not having toilettes.
5. Swinging swords larger than an average elf.
6. Drakes and dragons mating.
7. Being able to kill a high dragon but not step over a fallen log.
8. Wearing lipstick that never fails.
9. Almost dying, but never ever scratching your armor.
10. And so on, forever and ever...

[ioannisdenton]

Zobo wrote...

:lol::lol: Thread win!!! This one thing bugged me for my mage playthrough in Da2.

[74 Wrex]

Why do people hate robes?!

[ioannisdenton]

Commander Kurt wrote...

Hmm.. I don't mind the robes from an aestethic point of view, the hats are... a different story.

However, I do find myself curious about the argument that robes are silly on apostates. I get that you feel this way, and it's really no different from wanting the game to acknowledge a LI or a charachter death or something so I don't really question your point, but I'm wondering.

Where does this rate on the scale?
1. Hauling around 100+ items, apparently without even having pockets.
2. Leaving the house at night without a sweater (Hawke lives with his mother, right?)
3. Performing a massacre while bystanders continue with their shopping.
4. Your house not having toilettes.
5. Swinging swords larger than an average elf.
6. Drakes and dragons mating.
7. Being able to kill a high dragon but not step over a fallen log.
8. Wearing lipstick that never fails.
9. Almost dying, but never ever scratching your armor.
10. And so on, forever and ever...

Well said sir

[TheRealJayDee]

Nizaris1 wrote...

It doesn't make sense at all...DA2 played as a Mage doesn't make any sense at all...

Which is why I gave up playing one short time into the game. It's just really completely nonsensical. Sucks, cause mage/caster class always used to be my second playthrough in... pretty much every game that had such options and that I played more than once.

[LobselVith8]

Nizaris1 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I think using spells akin to telekinesis would make it apparent that the protagonist is a mage, even though they aren't as "flashy" as blood magic spells or some of the other standard Circle spells. The fact that Hawke and Carver discussed the former being an apostate right in front of the templar recruit Kerran, without any concern that Kerran might reveal this fact to his superiors, was one of the many examples of how Hawke being an apostate is pretty much handwaved throughout the storyline.

at lest if something moving in thin air there is no evidence Hawke who doing it

That can apply to blood magic as well, since mind manipulation can't be visably seen. If Hawke is engaged in combat with someone, however, it's a different story. The real problem is the narrative puts apostate Hawke in situations where he uses magic in front of people, but nobody seems to realize he's actually a mage.

Nizaris1 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I disagree. I don't think that aspect of the narrative makes sense, even if Hawke is a pro-templar apostate. Loyalist mages still have to live inside the Circle Tower, and having an open apostate live outside the Circle Tower can establish a precedent.

As for no one recognizing that apostate Hawke is a mage, that's pretty much the problem throughout Dragon Age II. The story never even bothers to address Sebastian dealing with Hawke being an apostate, despite him contemplating exposing Merrill and Anders to the Order of Templars since they are apostates. I think that would have been interesting to see unfold.

That is a mess in DA2, showing this game is never being tested, never carefully planned

I just think if it can be made that Hawke is actually an apostate who work with the Templar, maybe at least it make sense.

Anyway, is Gascard D'Puis a Mage? If not then how come he can use Blood Magic? If he is a Mage, how come Knight Commander sent apology letter? And how can he can walk away freely?

It doesn't make sense even if Hawke is pro-templar, since the templars wouldn't permit an apostate to roam free. The argument behind the Order of Templars and the Chantry controlled Circles is that they don't believe mages should roam around free.

Gascard is a mage, but it's not publicly known. He seems to be a noble, which is why he lived in a mansion, and the reason behind Meredith sending him an apology.

Nizaris1 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Regardless of whether Hawke is pro-mage or pro-templar, he would still have to live inside the Circle Tower if he was exposed as a mage.

Again, maybe it can be made that Templar need someone outside the Circle

Even police have volunteers from civilians

That contradicts the entire premise behind the current Order of Templard and the Chantry controlled Circles. They don't allow apostates to roam around free. The only mages who are permitted to live outside the Circle Tower are Grey Wardens.

Nizaris1 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Anders and Merrill are supposed to be protected by their friendship with Hawke (post-Champion status), as Anders is technically an apostate now, and no longer an active member of the Grey Wardens. Meredith addresses this to Anders when he blames her for what happened in Act III (if Hawke doesn't blame her initially when he returns to her office in "On the Loose").

Grey Warden Mage never be an apostate. If so, then Warden Mage the Hero of Ferelden is an apostate now and must be hunted down by the Templar and be made tranquil?

Anders left the order; he's referred to as an apostate several times throughout the narrative, and Stroud thought he was dead when they encounter each other in the Deep Roads. Technically, the Grey Wardens could bring him back into the order, which Anders mentioned as a possibility.

The Hero of Ferelden, in contrast, is a national hero, with possible support from the Crown of Ferelden, so it's doubtful the templars could do anything if the Magi Warden decides that he doesn't want to be a Grey Warden anymore. Like Windhelm (Shale's former master), a war hero who was allowed to live outside the Circle Tower and raise a family, despite this being illegal by Chantry law (for mages).

Nizaris1 wrote...

If there is a new Archdemon somehow, Anders can kill it, so Grey Warden is forever a Grey Warden no matter actively or not. And no matter if the person don't consider him/herself as Grey Warden or not.

That is why the story about Anders in DA2 quest is BS

Karl say "this is the apostate" is BS

It wouldn't be the first time templars attempted to bring Anders in (as we see with Rylock in Amaranthine), and Karl was made tranquil illegally by Alrik. Cullen acknowledges Anders as a mage in Act II, but I have to assume that he doesn't try to bring him in under the assumption that he's a Grey Warden.

Nizaris1 wrote...

DA2 totally downgraded Anders into the same level as others bad and evil apostates, just because Anders is a Mage. If Anders is not a Mage but a Grey Warden then what?

It is better if Anders character is replaced by new Mage character, but Bioware want to buy old  DA:O and DA:A players....

I can't dispute that Anders being in Dragon Age II doesn't always make sense - he can die defending Vigil's Keep, Justice in Kristoff's body can die in Vigil's Keep, the two can never meet and one of them can die... no effort was put into explaining how Anders and Justice meet if Anders was never recruited, and Justice was killed in the Dragonborn Wastes.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

deuce985 wrote...


I love mages in fantasy RPGs! But they never have cool looking armor dammit. I want to look cool like the dang warriors/rogues too! I'm not saying run around with 400lbs of armor on but give me freaking armor...something that's logical for a mage in combat.

Try TES. If nothing else Oblivion has the coolest conceivable robes, and they're available from the first time you fast-travel to Bruma; just break into J'Ghasta's. He's not home. If you insist on armor instead, try joining the Dark Brotherhood.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 21 décembre 2012 - 02:20 .

[Sharn01]

Or, staves could be a viable weapon for non mages and actually used to hit things rather then just cast spells. Better yet, make staves have absolutely nothing to do with magic, and allow mages to cast spells at full potential with any weapon in hand.

If you want to keep robes they can simply be a type of attire that some people wear, but they would need to actually have people other then mages and priests wearing them.

[sunnydxmen]

Templars have to be really dumb to not know a person wearing robes with a hoodie on in holding a staff if elemental has some effect to it to not know there a mage,but come on this is just as bad as people not knowing superman identity just because he wears glasses.

[ultimatekotorfan]

This is why I enjoy wearing the vest you get from that apostate raider in Act 2. It looks badass on a mage without you look like a mage.

That along with the mage Champion armor (which I absolutely love) are the only two mage armors in either game that I actually enjoy wearing. Aside from the blood writing on the Champion armore (which is annoying playing as a non-bloodmage) they don't necessarily tip people off to you mage status.

[DanIsNotVegan]

I always thought that a cloak would work a lot better, since they would be worn by travellers as well, while still maintaining the classic "mage look".