157 réponses à ce sujet

[Urazz]

I agree about the mages wearing robes stands out toomuch but staves can be said to be walking sticks or in some cases can be designed as a spear/staff as in the case of the staff of parlathan in DA2.

I think having them wear cloaks over their light armor would work out well. DA2 was a step in having mages in general having other looks than being in robes with a couple of sets that aren't robes. My favorite set was the champion armor set since that made you look like a battlemage.

[Zeta42]

That's why Gascard DuPuis was the only sane apostate. Ironically, he was also a blood mage.

[LobselVith8]

Nizaris1 wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

It doesn't make sense at all...DA2 played as a Mage doesn't make any sense at all...

Which is why I gave up playing one short time into the game. It's just really completely nonsensical. Sucks, cause mage/caster class always used to be my second playthrough in... pretty much every game that had such options and that I played more than once.

It doesn't make sense at all and beyond reasoning...it is a total f**ked up by Bioware

Technically speaking, since Hawke and his (or her) sibling are the children of a known apostate, Hawke running around Kirkwall free as a warrior or a rogue doesn't make sense either, since the children of mages belong to the Chantry by law. Leandra escaped Kirkwall with a known apostate, but there are no ramifications for this. There are problems with the narrative either way, which is why there are heated debates between people who disliked the game, and people who liked it.

Nizaris1 wrote...

Even i like DA2 magic compared with DA:O, the story as Mage Hawke can be thrown into a trash can...

In my opinion, it's missing an apostate POV, and the story being reactive to an apostate protagonist. I would have liked to see Sebastian's reaction to learning that Hawke was a mage, to speak with Ser Thrask once he learns that Hawke is actually an apostate, to deal with the dangers and risks of being an apostate at the seat of Chantry power over eastern Thedas.

Nizaris1 wrote...

Bioware either must disregard at all Hawke as a Mage in DA:I or make it Varric is lying to cover it...that is the only way for "save import Mage Hawke FIX" 

I don't think discarding apostate Hawke being a mage is going to solve anything. I think it would be better for the developers to simply learn from their mistakes with Dragon Age II, and make a mage protagonist meaningful in Inquisition.

[NoForgiveness]

this thread is rubbish. normal people wear robes and have a magical staff all the time

[LobselVith8]

[quote]Nizaris1 wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

That can apply to blood magic as well, since mind manipulation can't be visably seen. If Hawke is engaged in combat with someone, however, it's a different story. The real problem is the narrative puts apostate Hawke in situations where he uses magic in front of people, but nobody seems to realize he's actually a mage. [/quote]

That is why i said earlier that at least it give an immersion that Hawke didn't fancy casting spells. The whole Hawke as a Mage is ridiculous in this game [/quote]

Technically, so is the concept of warrior and rogue Hawke roaming around free, as well as Leandra facing no consequences for fleeing Kirkwall with a known apostate.

[quote]Nizaris1 wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

It doesn't make sense even if Hawke is pro-templar, since the templars wouldn't permit an apostate to roam free. The argument behind the Order of Templars and the Chantry controlled Circles is that they don't believe mages should roam around free.

Gascard is a mage, but it's not publicly known. He seems to be a noble, which is why he lived in a mansion, and the reason behind Meredith sending him an apology.[/quote]

Some rules can be amend, maybe it can be made a back story that Meredith only want to make Hawke as a scape goat, but it is already too late. Meredith does want to make hawke as scape goat, it mentioned after the Circle fall (if side with Templar), but the whole story before that didn't support it...so it is too late

About Gascard D'Puis...that is another mess up by Bioware. I am not sure if anyone realize it, but i do feel weird when i am doing the quest, only now i question it.

If Gascard can walk away freely using blood magic and Knight Commander sending apology letter...the whole Templar-Mage sentiment is BS [/quote]

The point was that no one knew Gascard was a mage; Meredith apologized to Gascard because he was a noble, but none of the templars realized he was really an apostate.

[quote]Nizaris1 wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

It wouldn't be the first time templars attempted to bring Anders in (as we see with Rylock in Amaranthine), and Karl was made tranquil illegally by Alrik. Cullen acknowledges Anders as a mage in Act II, but I have to assume that he doesn't try to bring him in under the assumption that he's a Grey Warden. [/quote]

if it is so, then Templar order is a very stupid order of all time...the world just going through a Blight, darkspawn is still a threat, they still want to mess with Grey Warden Mage [/quote]

That was the whole point of what Rylock did: it's an example that some will cross the line, even if it means going against a Grey Warden.

[quote]Nizaris1 wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

I can't dispute that Anders being in Dragon Age II doesn't always make sense - he can die defending Vigil's Keep, Justice in Kristoff's body can die in Vigil's Keep, the two can never meet and one of them can die... no effort was put into explaining how Anders and Justice meet if Anders was never recruited, and Justice was killed in the Dragonborn Wastes. [/quote]

Anders doesn't make sense at all, since the beginning of the quest, it doesn't make sense at all.

- He is a grey Warden, he doesn't need to hide, he have nothing to fear with the Templar. You may say he doesn't want to be a Grey Warden anymore or not active, but everyone know he is a Grey Warden
- Why he is so pissed off with Kirkwal Templar? If he really want to cause a rebellion, he can do it anywhere in Thedas. yet he want to going through all the trouble be in Kirkwal and doing the most stupid thing ever [/quote]

First, the short story for Anders explained that the Grey Wardens were forced to permit a tempar spy into the order, which doesn't make any sense, since there's no reason anyone would single out Anders, and Greagoir isn't the kind of person who would be able to make the First Warden or the Warden-Commander capitulate to any of his demands. Greagoir basically folds like a house of cards when the ruler of Ferelden rules that the mages of the Circle of Ferelden are going to be free in the US Ending for the Magi Warden, so it doesn't really make any sense. In addition, the Warden-Commander from the Circle has no reason to bend knee to any demands from the Order of Templars, either.

Regardless, the short story had Anders turn into a cannibal and murder the templar spy as an invincible abomination... and yes, it's as asinine and nonsensical as it sounds.

Second, Anders came to Kirkwall to rescue Karl, who was made tranquil illegally. Anders then became a member of the mage underground, and sought to emancipate the mages. Anders was in love with Karl years ago, and he came to Kirkwall in the first place to rescue him from the Gallows.

[quote]Nizaris1 wrote...

- If Warden is a Mage, it is better using the Warden influence to strengthen whatever he is fighting about, but he never do that and choose to become "apostate"? [/quote]

Given the Epilogue for Origins, the Hero of Ferelden from the Circle of Ferelden was supposed to be able to change things for his people. However, the Magi Boon was rectonned for Dragon Age II; that's why Cullen going insane because of the Magi Boon and the absense of an independent Circle of Orzammar with the Circle of Ferelden being given it's freedom were both handwaved for Dragon Age II.

[quote]Nizaris1 wrote...

If Warden is a Mage, what Anders do is throwing **** at the Warden face. The Warden going through all the trouble to uphold Mages name, to make peoples trust Mages, to make the world in peace, Anders destroy it all.
- there are a lot more [/quote]

Anders had a problem with mages being forced to give up their freedom to an oppressive system that had been going on for almost a thousand years. He wanted to free all mages across Thedas from the Chantry controlled Circles; he wasn't trying to win a popularity contest.

[quote]Nizaris1 wrote...

The whole premise of DA2 is BS actually...Mage-Templar conflict is BS...Bioware should focus on Grey Warden, Darkspawn, Archdemon and The Blight story [/quote]

I agree, to an extent; making mages and templars into one-dimensional cartoons basically invalidated the entire mage and templar argument in Dragon Age II. If you make the mage antagonists insane and stupid, and make the templars sadists and rapists, what's the point? If Decimus thinks Merrill is a templar and Grace wants revenge against the Champion becsause Hawke helped her escape from the templars, how am I suppose to take the story seriously when it doesn't make any sense?

Modifié par LobselVith8, 26 décembre 2012 - 07:53 .

[Tootles FTW]

I'm currently reading Dragon Age: Asunder, and there's a part where a templar and three mages walk into a bar (the start of any great joke) and the entire room hushes because, despite the mages all being in traveling clothes and out of their robes, their staves showed them to be mages.  (To me, them not wearing robes was specifically mentioned to show that, generally, robes = mages)
Worth noting: this bar in question was not filled with mage-weary templars, but back-country farmers.  Even THEY knew what was up based upon nothing but their stick-o-choice.

[leminzplz]

I just imagine that female Hawke is wearing an ordinary dress, because she's powerful and well-known, so to show for that she wears fancy looking dresses haha...
...for male Hawke, I haven't gone far enough into the game to see his mage robes, but from what I see they look like casual slacks.

[Hatchetman77]

I think we ned to let Solomin Grundy weigh in on this topic.

Modifié par Hatchetman77, 27 décembre 2012 - 06:39 .

[Augustei]

Hatchetman77 wrote...
Anders had a problem with mages being forced to give up their freedom to
an oppressive system that had been going on for almost a thousand
years. He wanted to free all mages across Thedas from the Chantry
controlled Circles; he wasn't trying to win a popularity contest.

It is a bit of a popularity contest really though, His actions severely damage the mages reputation and the mages can't have a horrible reputation if they want to get the support of the nations of thedas.. And if they don't get the support of any of the thedosian nations they will  be annihilated

[LobselVith8]

Nizaris1 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I agree, to an extent; making mages and templars into one-dimensional cartoons basically invalidated the entire mage and templar argument in Dragon Age II. If you make the mage antagonists insane and stupid, and make the templars sadists and rapists, what's the point? If Decimus thinks Merrill is a templar and Grace wants revenge against the Champion becsause Hawke helped her escape from the templars, how am I suppose to take the story seriously when it doesn't make any sense?

Yes, the whole grace thing is nonsense at all...

- Meredith or Orsino ask Hawke to investigate a conspiracy

- it is conspiracy against Meredith

- why Orsino want Hawke to investigate anyway?

The problem isn't Orsino asking Hawke to investigate (since Orsino was out of the loop regarding Thrask's plan to overthrow Meredith), it's that the rebel mages and rebel templars try to murder Hawke simply because the Plot says so. It's completely asinine. If Hawke is a known apostate who has helped mages and publicly opposed Meredith's dictatorship, it makes no sense that Thrask's people would attempt to murder him.

Nizaris1 wrote...

- Hawke learn that her brother/sister, or love one have been kidnapped

i. if Bethany/Carver a Grey Warden, how the hell they manage to kidnap them?

More importantly, if Hawke is already opposed to Meredith's dragonian rule over Kirkwall, why kidnap his sibling in the first place?

Nizaris1 wrote...

ii. afterward, they just left the scene....going back to deep road or whatever...there is no Warden outpost there in Kirkwal

- Hawke arrived at the scene, first meeting with Samson, he want to join the order back if Meredith gone (hawke dialogue this time is somewhat screwed)

- Hawke meet with those rebels, they all assume Hawke working with Meredith (despite Hawke maybe never supporting Meredith)

Well, this is the same game where Decimus assumes that Merrill (a Dalish elf) must be one of the templars (despite the Dalish and the templars being opposed to one another since the war with the Dales), so I suppose we shouldn't expect much.

Nizaris1 wrote...

i. Those Mages and Templars kidnap Hawke love ones just for forcing Hawke to meet them? For what? To force Hawke agree with them ditching out Meredith?

ii. Hawke may agree with them, but suddenly Grace going crazy and want to kill Hawke for revenge...for what? Hawke already agreeing with what they fussing about

iii. After Grace going crazy, those Mages and the Templars attacking Hawke...WTF? Hawke want to help them, there is no reason for those mages and Templars join Grace to attack Hawke

Grace attacking Hawke if he helped her and the others escape makes no sense. Nonsensical actions like this are why there are such heated debates about the failings of Dragon Age II to begin with. It's why some of us are so hesitant about Inquisition.

Nizaris1 wrote...

- Cullen arrived with Samson when everyone dead except few mages, Cullen ask some message to be sent to Meredith

i. Hawke can ask Samson to join the order back and Samson agree...WTF? isn't he only want to join the order if Meredith have been ditch out?

ii. Hawke may ask for Meredith being nice...all the remaining Mages in which also blood mages going back to Circle...end of story, nothing happen to them

- Then Hawke going back to the Gallow either to Meredith or Orsino...isn't Cullen already do that?

So what is the point of the whole quest? 

It's severe Plot Railroading. Thrask was one of the few developed templars in Dragon Age II, and instead of allowing Hawke to have actions that matter, the Plot railroads the protagonist down a linear path, no matter what our choices were. It's one of the reasons why so many people complain about the lack of significant choices in Dragon Age II, because our choices and actions don't seem to really matter.

XxDeonxX wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Anders had a problem with mages being forced to give up their freedom to an oppressive system that had been going on for almost a thousand years. He wanted to free all mages across Thedas from the Chantry controlled Circles; he wasn't trying to win a popularity contest. 

It is a bit of a popularity contest really though, His actions severely damage the mages reputation and the mages can't have a horrible reputation if they want to get the support of the nations of thedas.. And if they don't get the support of any of the thedosian nations they will  be annihilated. 

Mages have been vilified for nearly a thousand years by the regional region, to the point where people think that mages are cursed and try to murder them because they blame mages for anything bad that happens (as Wynne explains to The Warden). I can understand disagreement with Anders' actions, but the reputation of the mages was already in the gutter for nearly a millennia.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 27 décembre 2012 - 05:14 .

[Uccio]

One would expect that in medieval type world clothing is a way to show your social status. So colourfull robes with runes in them and awesome staff would be a big deal for a Magister of Tevinter to show his status. Or a circle mage. On the other hand apostate blood made would most likely go around in plain tunic and pants without stave to stay hidden if he knew what was good for him.

Unless of course the apostetes name is Hawke and is living in Kirkwall...

[Yalision]

Zobo wrote...


Also I think it will be interesting to see a mage hiding his/her identity by using a warrior/rogue disguise or even mostly neglecting his/her magic abilities because said mage genuinely prefers physical exercises over mental activity (only doing magical minimum as trying not to get possesed by demons of cause). So far warrior/rogue/mage gameplay mechanic dominated character portrayal in a way that is kinda excessive.

Lol, I never saw this comic. I almost cried so funny.

[LobselVith8]

krul2k wrote...

templars know hawkes a mage nigh from day 1, meredith has a list of reports saying so, she says so, but she gives hawke for lack of a word the "benefit", only thing that is stupid in the whole scene is if hawkes a blood mage, but as ive stated before, the way the story has unfolded "so far" giving the pc the blood mage spec was the dumbest thing to do from the beginning

I don't see why it's dumb; being a blood mage is logical if an apostate wants to be able to handle templars who try to murder or capture him, as the templars can nullify the other schools of magic (with the only exception being blood magic).

[Augustei]

LobselVith8 wrote...
[Mages have been vilified for nearly a thousand years by the regional
region, to the point where people think that mages are cursed and try to
murder them because they blame mages for anything bad that happens (as
Wynne explains to The Warden). I can understand disagreement with
Anders' actions, but the reputation of the mages was already in the
gutter for nearly a millennia.

Their reputation would have improved significantly in Ferelden where they helped stop the blight (and in some cases are the hero of ferelden) and the King himself is looking out for them so their reputation there would be improving.

They already have it good in Rivain where they are revered, I can imagine the Warden's having control over the Anderfels would advocate mage interests there due to how useful they are.

and they would have a bit of a good rep in Orlais as well since they helped save the divines life after the Templar coup in DOTS and the divine advocating their interests.

The Templars I can imagine having a firm grip on Orlais however (Thanks Emperor Drakon)

But i'm of the opinion that Nevarra could be the nation that makes or breaks the mages cause of becoming free. And they can't get Nevarran or any further support if they have a bad reputation

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 27 décembre 2012 - 07:54 .

[gneisenau556]

To me the staves seemed like a Tevinter Magister tradition where one wanted to show their power. But honestly what's wrong with mages using martial weapons ? They don't have to be experts but should be able to use them to some degree.

Modifié par gneisenau556, 27 décembre 2012 - 10:20 .

[LobselVith8]

krul2k wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I don't see why it's dumb; being a blood mage is logical if an apostate wants to be able to handle templars who try to murder or capture him, as the templars can nullify the other schools of magic (with the only exception being blood magic).

Blood Magic is one of the most reviled things in thedas if i pick it up right from the game, thus having the "HERO" be a blood mage is hypocritical and dumb, why i have never played one an never will, being backed into a corner as a mage is no exscuse to go all stupid like orisino, its for them sort of reactions of extreme stpudity you have such distrust of mages.

I will say it again, as blood mages stand in the game having the "HERO" be one is utter folly. 

Merrill is a blood mage. Some Grey Warden mages use blood magic to protect people against the darkspawn. It's not a school of magic used only by villains.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 27 décembre 2012 - 11:02 .

[DarthLaxian]

i agree with the last statement about blood-magic:

it is a tool and everyone of my mages would dabble in it (they might not actually learn the skill in-game, because other skills are more usefull, as the PC does not get the things that really make bloodmagic powerfull, like spells having twice the damage or being able to summon demons etc. but in my head-canon all my mages are blood-mages (and in DA:O i would add the specialization via cheats, also i never really use it) because it makes them more powerfull)

as for wearing robes: well, traveling clothes over light armor (leather or even light chainmail) is a really good option, even more now as there is the constant danger of templars (imho, any mage that does not wear some sort of armor - only his robes/clothes - is stupid, even if they can learn things like rock-armor etc. because that can be forcefully deactivated by anti-magic spells etc.)

greetings LAX
ps: mage-pants/armor is really needed for DA:I (and: i want Arcane-Warrior back, because i loved my mage in (heavy-)armor (the warden-commander-set)

[New Display Name]

Honestly, you shouldn't have been able to play as a mage in Dragon Age 2 - unless they made a lot of changes involving ways Hawke hides his/her magic - which does not sound practical to make.

On the subject of robes, members of the chantry are shown to be wearing them, so if you wore robes but didn't have a staff with you, you might be able to pose as chantry or believer.

However, having a staff should be a dead giveaway or at least cause a great deal of suspicion, enough for a templar to investigate you if you're in kirkwall.

[DragonAgeTemplar]

Errrrrrr, No one can do a damn thing if the Inquisitor is a mage.