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[Dani Douglas]

So this is just my opinion and you can say whatever you want.


I believe part of the reason Origins was so amazing and loved is because the game allows you to connect to the character you make by playing through their origin story and getting a feel for them.  Like I somewhat cried
when I left my "mother" and "father" there to die so my character would be spared.

And during the game you got to grow with the character and you could connect with your traveling buddies and have a romance with them so it added to the connection.


With DA2 you didn't have that.  The most you got for a beginning story was some information about your family.  Tiny information.  You have a sister and brother, depending on which class you pick on dies and you’re not
really affected, it's like "Oh well whatever", if that was my sister or brother I would be outraged and have some superman insane moment against that ogre but nope, nothing.  You also don't get the "I love you"
or "I'm proud of you" or anything like you did in origins.  I realize your running for your lives but still throw in something that seems like you guys are a family besides your mother saying listen to your sister. 


So I'm hoping in dragon age 3 they will bring back that aspect and make it better because that personally is what made dragon age origins for me and why I love playing through it over and over again.


I heard, I can't remember where I heard this BUT they are bringing back different origin starts but you won’t be able to play through them, it will be shown to you.  I'm praying that isn't true or your just defeating the purpose of having different starting points.


Anyways what are your opinions?

Modifié par Dani Douglas, 18 décembre 2012 - 05:51 .

[thats1evildude]

krul2k wrote...

i had chicken an chips for dinner, was rather nice

That's kind of an odd mix.

[Navasha]

I agree with you on the Origins definitely. I have played through DA:O many many times and I have played every single origin story and its associated character and each playthrough felt unique.
Sure it was the same story basically after the joining... but still my dalish felt somewhat outcast and seeing what happened to Tamlen was a huge moment. My noble was desperate for information on her brothers location and status.and grieving for her parents. My dwarven clanless had reason to be rude and uncaring to most everyone in the world, and returning to Orzammar as a grey warden who other dwarves now had to "respect" for his position was a priceless feeling.

Each character had some deeper connection to me, and allowed me to really view the events, people and places I encountered with a much different perspective.

Honestly, I think DA2 would have been MUCH better if we were allowed to play some little origin story with all the siblings as children and could have met the father, and seen how the mother. It would have made some of the deep emotional events in the game MUCH more hard hitting.

I HOPE the developers realize what an emotional difference it is to learn about something about your characters past before the game tries to throw you into the meat of the game. I think it would benefit DA3 greatly if they change their mind on not having a playable origin.

[thats1evildude]

krul2k wrote...

BBQ chicken m8, made it maself an i have chips with everything (oh incase your american chips in scotland = fries where your from lol)

Chips and fries are somewhat inter-changeable in the English-speaking parts of Canada. You order fries at McDonalds, you make fish n' chips for dinner.

Usually you get chips with burgers or with fish. But I guess barbecue chicken works.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 18 décembre 2012 - 06:11 .

[funmachine]

Dani Douglas wrote...

...I heard, I can't remember where I heard this BUT they are bringing back different origin starts but you won’t be able to play through them, it will be shown to you.  I'm praying that isn't true or your just defeating the purpose of having different starting points...

Just wanted to comment on this bit. Though I understand how it may be easier to "get into your character" if you play through an origin story, I think this new approach has a lot going for it as well.

Origin stories were very cool, and I played through all of them (some multiple times) but as soon as you reach Ostagar in DA:O you get more or less the same story for every character from then on. There are some small exceptions of course, but not enough to give me the feeling that they have a huge impact on the rest of the game.

I'm hoping that in DA:I they will make your origin more relevant throughout the entire story. This way you may not experience your characters beginnings yourself, but you do get to play through whatever the written-out past conjures up for you. Of course, it's a matter of waiting now to see what we'll actually get...

[Dani Douglas]

krul2k wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

krul2k wrote...

i had chicken an chips for dinner, was rather nice

That's kind of an odd mix.

BBQ chicken m8, made it maself an i have chips with everything (oh incase your american chips in scotland = fries where your from lol)

uh guys can we get back onto the subject.

[Dhiro]

I do agree that the avaliable reactions to your sibling deads are pretty awkward at best, but that's it.

I liked that our past was vague, because that way I could create several different personalities and only be constrained by "you have a family and you live in the run". I never felt like I couldn't connect with my Hawkes, and while the Origins were nice, I also didn't felt like they were that important.

In any case, we won't have Origins, but backgrounds in DA: I. Apparently they will change a few things during your storyline.

[Maria Caliban]

I usually connect to my character after I finish the game and I reflect on what happened. A lot of my fanfiction is just me sorting out the character and events in my head. To some extent, BioWare simply provides the basis for my extrapolations.

Dani Douglas wrote...

So this is just my opinion and you can say whatever you want.

Dani Douglas wrote...

uh guys can we get back onto the subject.

If you leave the barn door open, you have no one to blame but yourself when the horses get out.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 18 décembre 2012 - 06:45 .

[Sir George Parr]

I could connect with Lady Hawke quite easily and cared about this woman over the course of the game , which makes the lack of closure and catharsis for her at the end very disappointing. I can see the advantage of an opening like Fallout 3 where you are with your protagonist from day one and could have seen the twins grow up. To a teenage Hawke having a crush on Leliana.Even seeing why Carver feels eclipsed by Hawke. The Only thing i would leave out is Malcolm, As time goes by the two remaining children struggle to remember what he looked like so why should we get to see him.These events could have being used to mould Hawke's personality for the rest of the story.
It would have made the death of the one sibling have a greater impact.Carver would have benefitted from opening like this, as on most of my play throughs he has a date with that Ogre and Bethany comes to Kirkwall.

[Wrathion]

I think Origins...gives you a bit more leeway. I mean in the Human Noble story. You're still a noble but...no one tells you what kind of person you were BEFORE you choose any dialogue.


For DA2... It helped a large amount that your family looks like you (somewhat) I could actually imagine that they were related this time around. But...Carver/Bethany die right off the bat. And for some reason that game expected me to be sad, even though they both had like 10 lines...

Then I read some of the codex pages and they ended up defining some of Hawkes past.

Like relationship with their living+dead sibling and some writing ends up defining your own Hawke (Bethany admired her mage siblings TOTAL AWESOME embracing of his/her magic blah blah) and even what they did before they escaped Lothering (Rot in the house, joined the army) and I figured stuff like that was left to the imagination. I didn't appreciate it in the slightest.
Then the DLC rolled along and killed me. My Hawke is always 25(whhhhhy), Malcolm was a nice wonderful person that did the most for his family, he ALSO had the same personality as Hawke...

The least I could do is headcanon the dead people.

[Sanunes]

I really don't connect to my characters the same way some people do in video games and I think that is why I never have the same issues that a lot of people seem to (such as not playing Shepard in the future).

I do feel there was more to Origins then Dragon Age 2 for you were able to develop a history with your character because you have the origin story for each of the races that help connect your character with the story and in Dragon Age 2 it was more like a FPS with "congratulations you are the chosen one, go kill the enemies", from a few of the posts I have read around here it sounds like they are going to try and give our characters a past in Dragon Age 3, but that might give people the connection they are looking for.

[Fast Jimmy]

Beginning and endings. That's where your connections are made or broken.

Development happens in the middle. But if you aren't connected, you only develop a growing sense of apathy.

A beginning that gets you in the unique mindset of your character is crucial. And ending where you say goodbye to your character is crucial. A middle where you get to develop your character is also crucial, but only if you care about said character to begin with, or that connection isn't invalidated arbitrarily by endings that do nothing to ring closure or catharsis.

[esper]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

I think Origins...gives you a bit more leeway. I mean in the Human Noble story. You're still a noble but...no one tells you what kind of person you were BEFORE you choose any dialogue.


For DA2... It helped a large amount that your family looks like you (somewhat) I could actually imagine that they were related this time around. But...Carver/Bethany die right off the bat. And for some reason that game expected me to be sad, even though they both had like 10 lines...

Then I read some of the codex pages and they ended up defining some of Hawkes past.

Like relationship with their living+dead sibling and some writing ends up defining your own Hawke (Bethany admired her mage siblings TOTAL AWESOME embracing of his/her magic blah blah) and even what they did before they escaped Lothering (Rot in the house, joined the army) and I figured stuff like that was left to the imagination. I didn't appreciate it in the slightest.
Then the DLC rolled along and killed me. My Hawke is always 25(whhhhhy), Malcolm was a nice wonderful person that did the most for his family, he ALSO had the same personality as Hawke...

The least I could do is headcanon the dead people.

If you can do basic math Hawke is always under 25 in act one. (Carver and Bethany are 18 at the beginning), even before the dlc.

Malcom has a fluent personality, but nobody says it is the same as Hawke.

The Malcom I head canon was 'Calm and never raised his voice' do to Hawke being base diplomatic, but in actually Malcom and my Hawke hadn't spoken for the last three years, because my Hawke basically thought he was a wuss and his whole 'magic must serve that which is best in us not base' was an excuse which he used to never do anything to try and change the world. Malcom, knowing that Hawke had inherited her mother's strong will and tendency to decide what was best for herself , purposely bound Hawke to protect the family knowing his daughter enough to know that she would always tries to fullfill a vow once given.

That's not nice and wonderfull that is very manipulative and the result was a Hawke who was very passive-aggressive. I found nothing in the codex to suggest that wasn't how he acted. I highly appreciate the little informations we got on Malcom, we got just enough to give him the hint of a personality beyond mysterious dead father figure, which I appreiciate if I have to get into a character.    

[_- Songlian -]

Origins is better as far as connecting goes because your choice is included from the start, but if the story is good and the dialogue plenty, i think you will eventually connect with anything BW throws at you.

[esper]

- Songlian - wrote...

Origins is better as far as connecting goes because your choice is included from the start, but if the story is good and the dialogue plenty, i think you will eventually connect with anything BW throws at you.

Actually I never gave anything about Tamlen, or the Cousland's family at all. Origins are not an gurantee that you connect with the early character deads at all.

What we need to connect to a character is  highly subjective´. I connected well with Jowan and Shianni and your sister in dwarven commoner sister, but not with the Cousland, nor Tamlen nor did I feel the dwarven noble family very much. 

[Arppis]

I could connect with Hawke easily, I could connect with Warden easily.

I have only problems when I am playing a silent protagonist, who doesn't even speak silent dialogue.

[_- Songlian -]

esper wrote...

- Songlian - wrote...

Origins is better as far as connecting goes because your choice is included from the start, but if the story is good and the dialogue plenty, i think you will eventually connect with anything BW throws at you.

Actually I never gave anything about Tamlen, or the Cousland's family at all. Origins are not an gurantee that you connect with the early character deads at all.

What we need to connect to a character is  highly subjective´. I connected well with Jowan and Shianni and your sister in dwarven commoner sister, but not with the Cousland, nor Tamlen nor did I feel the dwarven noble family very much. 

Isn't this thread about connecting to YOUR character? As opposed to connecting with other NPCs?

Just because you connect with your character does not mean you're obliged to like everyone in his story. Maybe the Cousland pup was a dirtbag and hated his parents. Maybe the dalish elf couldn't stand Tamlen and just tagged along because she had nothing better to do. But I can still get attached to them nonetheless.  

Modifié par - Songlian -, 18 décembre 2012 - 10:39 .

[Wrathion]

esper wrote...

If you can do basic math Hawke is always under 25 in act one. (Carver and Bethany are 18 at the beginning), even before the dlc.

Malcom has a fluent personality, but nobody says it is the same as Hawke.

The Malcom I head canon was 'Calm and never raised his voice' do to Hawke being base diplomatic, but in actually Malcom and my Hawke hadn't spoken for the last three years, because my Hawke basically thought he was a wuss and his whole 'magic must serve that which is best in us not base' was an excuse which he used to never do anything to try and change the world. Malcom, knowing that Hawke had inherited her mother's strong will and tendency to decide what was best for herself , purposely bound Hawke to protect the family knowing his daughter enough to know that she would always tries to fullfill a vow once given.

That's not nice and wonderfull that is very manipulative and the result was a Hawke who was very passive-aggressive. I found nothing in the codex to suggest that wasn't how he acted. I highly appreciate the little informations we got on Malcom, we got just enough to give him the hint of a personality beyond mysterious dead father figure, which I appreiciate if I have to get into a character.    

Oh wow, that's so amazing. instead of actually 25 sometimes they're VAGUELY around 25. Much better. 

MOTA banter. Hawke mentions that Malcolm acted the same way depending on your chioce of dialogue. Even Leandra says it after Legacy during their little talk depending on what options you choose.

Well good for you. But I have very many Hawkes and I have no interest in having the personality of someone I never meet and will never know being defined for me in each and every playthrough.  And some of the backrounds for my Hawke rely on Malcolm being an mage-loving butthole. So "GOD I HOPE MY CHILD WONT HAVE MAGIC BECAUSE MAGIC SUCKS EW WHO WOULD WANT MAGIC, AND I'M CREATING THIS SEAL FOR THE GREY WARDENS SO THEY WONT MURDER THAT THE LOVE OF MY LIFE THAT I TOTAL ALWAYS CARE COMPLETELY ABOUT IN EVERY SINGLE PLAYTHROUGH!" don't work.

You have 1 Hawke! Awesome! Your headcanon is extremely similiar to Bioware's own canon so it didn't take much effort to integrate them? Radical dude! Well, you can have your Great Caring Malcolm with his 1 bit personality over there. Thumbs up, yah. But i'm going to sit over here with my 8 fleshed out characters and lament over the fact that almost every thing i've made up for them and their family, and their life before Kirkwall has pretty much been contradicted already for absolutely no reason. Yay, where's my party hat!?

 Close enough.

Modifié par Alexandrine Delassixe, 18 décembre 2012 - 11:05 .

[Isaantia]

PurebredCorn wrote...

With the exception of Shepard, I don't really get attached to my player characters. I am more inclined to get attached to the followers than any of my characters. The origins were an incentive to replay DA:O, but so were the variety in race and class options.

For some reason, I got super attached to my Shepard. Attached to the point I couldn't play any other Shepards. There was just that Shepard and only that one. I replayed the game with her numerous times. 

Conversely, I had 3 different mage Hawkes and a rogue Hawke.  I have a few Couslands, Amells, etc. 

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the entirety of DA2 is an origin story. This is where Hawke comes from, how Hawke causes a war. You are deciding all that stuff, her/his tone, etc. Agressive Hawke, Nice Hawke and Sarcastic Hawke are ALL like Malcom, thats just part of Hawke, like the Cousland is a noble. Like the Amell is a mage.

The awkwardness for me in the DA2 story are the huge time jumps. Interesting stuff probably happened in those time periods - its all headcannon. But despite the time changes, nothing much changes among the people around Hawke. Everyone looks the same, no one aged visibly. No one even changed their hairstyle or clothes. 

At least in Mass Effect, Shepard is comatose during the largest time jump. All the other characters around Shepard did stuff and they can talk about it with certainty. Shepard was just out cold.   

The advantage DAO has is that it occurs over 1 relatively short period of time in your character's life.  

I would argue that connecting with your character is a fuction of agency. Or maybe a coefficent of agency would be more accurate.  

[Wulfram]

I think what makes me connect with a character are interesting choices where the responses chosen say something deeper about the character as a person than "is nice" or "is a jerk".

Family and background stuff isn't necessarily part of that, just character development stuff rather than running around killing stuff.

[Dani Douglas]

XM-417 wrote...

I could connect with Lady Hawke quite easily and cared about this woman over the course of the game , which makes the lack of closure and catharsis for her at the end very disappointing. I can see the advantage of an opening like Fallout 3 where you are with your protagonist from day one and could have seen the twins grow up. To a teenage Hawke having a crush on Leliana.Even seeing why Carver feels eclipsed by Hawke. The Only thing i would leave out is Malcolm, As time goes by the two remaining children struggle to remember what he looked like so why should we get to see him.These events could have being used to mould Hawke's personality for the rest of the story.
It would have made the death of the one sibling have a greater impact.Carver would have benefitted from opening like this, as on most of my play throughs he has a date with that Ogre and Bethany comes to Kirkwall.

Yeah I see what your saying, I could connect on a level but they're reactions are what ruined the connection.  My sister/brother died "Let's just go already", you break up with someone "Well lets go kill things now".

With origins you got reactions that actually expressed emotion.  Like with the noble origins, Oren is dead your face goes weird, you see your father bleeding you run to him and when you break up they banter and such about it and it is mentioned.

I think the best reaction was probably when you took your brother/sister into the deep roads and that was a very limited reaction at best.  

Having an origin story is very helpful in the connection because it allows you to see the emotions the PC shows in reaction to the NPCs in it's story that helps you connect on a more deeper level because it gives you a sense of reality or understanding.

I don't know if that made sense, it did in my head so lol