256 réponses à ce sujet

[BattleCop88]

I strongly dislike this change. Not simply because it brought back the charge mechanic, but because Bioware didn't give players the option to fire instantly like the Arc pistol. I think an Acolyte that can do both would please everybody. With instant firing at lower damage, players with less experience can get used to the mechanics and increase survivability, while rewarding higher skilled players with high damage, shield stripping, and general fun.

Since it is unlikely they would do this, (but I will definitely float the idea), I will say that it's a shame that they didn't decrease the time required for the gun to fire. A second exposed to fire, yet nothing comes out-- that's why people are opposed to this change.

[K_O_513]

Hiero Glyph wrote...

Rad_Rage wrote...

Hiero Glyph wrote...

Rad_Rage wrote...

It's hilarious to see people suggesting that holding a button down requires more skill than pressing it.

And yet somehow it does because you cannot do certain things while charging, like going into cover.

That's a matter of convenience, not skill. Player X isn't better than Player Y at this game because the former prefers to charge his Acolyte.

Yet Player X can be better at Player Y when using the Acolyte due to the charge mechanic.  Without the charge mechanic the learning curve was minimal; now it has a learning curve in order to utilize it to its full potential.  Certainly there is some skill involved with using a Hurriance without a stabilization module, or a single-shot sniper like the Javelin due to the long reload animation (even with canceling).  Not all players can use such weapons easily and it has nothing to do with convenience.

It's everything with convenience. There is no learning curve in holding a button down instead of just pressing it. That's like saying the Cobra Missile Launcher took more skill to use back when it had a delay on it. No one is going to use the Acolyte differently (except people who play the Shadow and maybe Novaguard). The only difference in charge vs. no charge is that you take slightly longer to kill your target since you have to hold a button down instead of just tapping it. That and you can no longer panic fire the Acolyte when you're being bumrushed by Phantoms/Hunters/etc.

[N172]

Maybe the charge makes sense balancing-wise.
But have you ever seen any asari with anti-armor capabilities (the ones this thing was designed for) successfully using it,
how whould you explain the inability to charge it while in cover
and the forced release when you drop down somewhere?
Why is there no "start-charge"-button on it?

I hate it because it is the catalyst of ME3MP, it pretends to be an awesome idea (the only gun you need to charge to do anything at all), but in fact it is a heap of illogical bs.

[mackfactor]

N7-Commander wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

once agian its a buff. all you people complaining make no sense. Alot of us felt screwed by the nerf of removing charge just to stop cheaters and then eveyrone and their mom overused it getting it nerfed. Now tis back to its original glory and i'm happy as hell for that.

I honestly don't care how you perceive it to be. Removing the charge was one of the best and most useful buffs I ever had the pleasure of enjoying, imo.

It is a caster weapon. Casters are squishy. You have to stay out of cover to fire the weapon. This means jack on bronze and silver but gold isn't so forgiving on so such stupidity. But oh hey! Vanguards can now do that charge-charge trick! So yay! Its not like they didn't have a Geth Plasma Shotgun, or any other charge weapons. Thank god those classes are safe, if the squishy casters and adepts, for which the gun was designed for, are crippled because of it, so be it! They are necessary causalities.

This is like the only gun in the game that HAS to be charged to fire. How anyone can not view that as a ridiculous weakness, especially on a caster, is beyond me. All other charge weapons have the ability to fire instantly, be it at a weaker damage output. I'd rather have that then be crippled with a mandatory charge up.

Don't agree? Good for you. No, really. I'm super happy that this nerf doesn't effect you personally, kudos, good for you. Must be nice. Forgive me if your pleasure over this nerf doesn't have relevance to how much it hurts my casters.

Harrier is widely claimed to be one of the best assault rifles. I never use it myself though. So if they nerf it down to be crap I won't personally care since it doesn't effect me. Doesn't mean I won't be aware of how much it'd hurt other players and kits though. They nerfed a caster weapon to be less effective on squishy casters. Weapon kits and a few niche kits won't be effected by it, so what?

It's still a nerf, a fatal nerf, to many caster players regardless of how much you personally prefer it to be as such.

Boom. Great reply.

It's okay to say that you like or don't like a change, but acting like there's no other viewpoint than your own and insulting people with a different opinion is douchery at its finest.

[BattleCop88]

It's one thing to have a learning curve to fully utilize a weapon's potential, but another to require a learning curve to even use the weapon. The former is brilliant balancing, the latter is frustrating to those with anything short of 1337

[Major Durza]

I love the change.
Why?
It is harder to use, so fewer people are going to attempt to use it. Fewer people using it means that it will not *flood* the lobbies like the nerf-herders claim that it did. It is no longer a easy crutch, now takes some degree of skill to use effectively.
But the thing is, it is less popular, but has it lost any of its effectiveness inherently?

NO!

As a matter of fact, it shoots slightly faster with its charging mechanism in place.
Yes, basically made it next to nerf-proof, without reducing its effectiveness! I support the change wholeheartedly. Part of an excellent Christmas Gift Bioware gave us this season!

[mackfactor]

upinya slayin wrote...

count_4 wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

count_4 wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

count_4 wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

count_4 wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...
The acolyte was better pre-nerf and i'm happy its back

No, it wasn't. It could still strip shields in one shot from any enemy besides bosses after the nerf, which means it wasn't actually a nerf in practice.
And how is a one second delay before firing preferable to a second delay after firing (and killing the target)?

I have yet to hear even one single argument from the pro-chargers why it was better before that actually makes sense.

how about reading my whole posts on it?

I did.
The ROF increase is negligible as it is too minor to really do anything in practice.

The damage increase? Sure helps a bit against bosses but the bosses aren't the ones killing me, it's the mooks and minor bosses, both of which can be one-shot with the chargeless Acolyte.

And firing on impact? What keeps you from firing on impact manually?

Reverting the Acolyte to the charge mechanic takes away the ability to react instantly to any threat without giving us anything worthwhile in return.
And while I know that lore isn't really a concern to people on MP, nobody in their right mind would build a weapon where you have to constantly pull the trigger and release it only if you want to fire.

it takes away 245 damage per shot against shields/barriers and tahts w/o any amps. thats alot.

anyway with that said the firing on impact can't be done since you can't fire in the middle of a charge. if you charge the weapon then perform a Biotic charge it releases up impact stripping away the shields then letting teh force and damage from BC affct health.

and yes it takes away the ability to react insatnly unless you know you run around with it charged and then you can react even faster

When rolling my Asari Vanguard I usually fire first and instantly BC afterwards, result is about the same, except that I don't have to wait a second before I can engage and the BC takes away the biggest chunk of the cooldown., when I'm done BC'ing, I can almost instantly fire again

So while you are still charging your Acolyte I'd have already killed one Phantom and stripped the shields of a second one. 

Lift Grenade
Damage: 2970/2970/4455/2970 (health/shields/barries/armor)

i charge and throw in 2 lift grenades and the whole spawn dies. Acoltye what?

Well, I charge in and use a missile. Your point?
It's about the Acolyte not how fast you can kill things with some arbitrary means.

the AV isn't built on weapons. its built on lift grenades. its one of the highest damage output classes in the game

My point is i listed several situations where the charge is better, you listed 1 that hardly made any sense.

I could say the harrier sucks on a human adept cause it ruins my cooldown. it makes no sense to say it but i could. You are complaining becuase this made teh agme "harder for you" get over it.

So you complain that people should diversify the way they play ("1000 kits, blah, blah, blah") and then tell someone that if they aren't playing a class the way you do, or even what you consider the "optimal" way, they're doing it wrong?

Dude, you're deflecting rather than addressing a point you're not interested in acknowledging.

[Homey C-Dawg]

I'll see your disapproval of the acolyte change OP, and raise you one approval.

[Pugz82]

The charge mechanic was always there and barely anyone used it...was nice. Now everyone and their mother uses it.

I am glad it's back...I like it better that way.

[Atheosis]

Some people like it more with with charge mechanic. I can't begin to comprehend why, but to each their own. Honestly, I'm kind of glad the Acolyte will cease to be the no brainer caster weapon it was without the charge mechanic.

[born2beagator]

Major Durza wrote...

I love the change.
Why?
It is harder to use, so fewer people are going to attempt to use it. Fewer people using it means that it will not *flood* the lobbies like the nerf-herders claim that it did. It is no longer a easy crutch, now takes some degree of skill to use effectively.
But the thing is, it is less popular, but has it lost any of its effectiveness inherently?

NO!

As a matter of fact, it shoots slightly faster with its charging mechanism in place.
Yes, basically made it next to nerf-proof, without reducing its effectiveness! I support the change wholeheartedly. Part of an excellent Christmas Gift Bioware gave us this season!

exactly.  noticed how everyone  started using the gun once the charge was taken off, and consequentally, the whiners came out saying that it was OP.  now that the charge is back, look at all the "HAR I'LL NEVER USE IT AGAIN" postsB)

[mackfactor]

Hiero Glyph wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

that wasn't the point. yes with mods you can do it (the 40% mod and the wepaon is still only .3 encomberance) will do it by itself I'm quite aware of it. I'm glad the crutch feature is gone though I like the old acolyte better more stargey less spam

Yeah, I totally agree about the charge mechanic being back again.  It requires limited skill to use effectively and you do not have to deal with the horrendous reload pause after your final shot.  Hopefully this will prevent the randoms from using it ad naseum.

Riiiiiight. Because randoms are just so uncool and anything they do is to be looked down upon with revulsion.

[Bolo Xia]

3 weeks with zero balance changes, so the weapon is going to be stuck this way at least until then, if not permanently.

also im not sure how charging a weapon equals skill, just means you cant be in cover or exposed very long especially on platinum.

that was the great thing about the no-charge version is because on platinum it is easy to be destroyed before we ever shoot this charge up version.
its why i wouldnt use this gun before, also its not always charged when it makes the noise either so it actually loses DPS.
plus with DPS you would have to perfectly charge the weapon right when done firing, which case if your in cover you already know how that ends.
so that only leaves soft cover in a hard cover based shooter...

so when are they going to fix the on-host phantom insane DR?
oh right must be balanced then... guess since im host 99% of the time im stuck going back to using phantom slaying guns other than the acolyte or dancing with them ridiculously to long.

am i crying, raging, or whatever?
nope, just stating how it is.
i play gold/platinum constantly so basing my reasons off of that experience.

also, just because someone's opinion differs does not instantly mean "omg cry/rage/noskill"

[vladgd]

What ever happened to smgs or rapid fire weapons being good vs shields/barriers?

I would even use the geth smg if it would strip off those shields/barriers better, even if it did literally 0 damage to health/armor(although it kind of already does 0 damage already...).

[FeralJester616]

Major Durza wrote...

I love the change.
Why?
It is harder to use, so fewer people are going to attempt to use it. Fewer people using it means that it will not *flood* the lobbies like the nerf-herders claim that it did. It is no longer a easy crutch, now takes some degree of skill to use effectively.
But the thing is, it is less popular, but has it lost any of its effectiveness inherently?

NO!

As a matter of fact, it shoots slightly faster with its charging mechanism in place.
Yes, basically made it next to nerf-proof, without reducing its effectiveness! I support the change wholeheartedly. Part of an excellent Christmas Gift Bioware gave us this season!

Oh I get it...
The original version was OP as hell and the reason nobody noticed was that hardly anyone was using it.
I get it now.

Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Charge or not, they should bring back the damage nerf. Stop it being OP again.

Not that it bothers me either way.
Hate both versions of this gun and the rest of the Charge Weapons too...



Edit: formating.

Modifié par FeralJester616, 19 décembre 2012 - 02:27 .

[wrexthegrunt]

i personally find the mechanic of pulling a trigger and nowt happening very counter intuitive,especially in a game [which i love] that suffers from glitches and lag...:pinched:What would make me happy? How about an Asari SMG with Natural shield/barrier bonuses?

[Cole Jones]

InTheZone wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Zhuinden wrote...

After messing with the Carnifex and the Piranha, there should be at least one Caster weapon left.

The Acolyte did not need to be reverted, I'd laugh if the missile glitchers would be more abundant yet again.

People don't realize that the charge removal was a nerf not a buff. I'm happy to have it back the way it was.

How was it a nerf?

Basically, now you have to charge in the open and you'll die on Gold easily.

Nissun wrote...

Quit ****ing and learn how to use it. It's not that hard.

Yeah, people know how to use it. You hold down the RT (on PS3/XBOX) and then you fire. It's a stupid mechanic and this gun will collect dust now.

Really cause this is the first time this gun has been worth jack Since it was removed.

[FlowCytometry]

BattleCop88 wrote...

I strongly dislike this change. Not simply because it brought back the charge mechanic, but because Bioware didn't give players the option to fire instantly like the Arc pistol. I think an Acolyte that can do both would please everybody. With instant firing at lower damage, players with less experience can get used to the mechanics and increase survivability, while rewarding higher skilled players with high damage, shield stripping, and general fun.

Since it is unlikely they would do this, (but I will definitely float the idea), I will say that it's a shame that they didn't decrease the time required for the gun to fire. A second exposed to fire, yet nothing comes out-- that's why people are opposed to this change.

I concur. I can see why the uncharged acolyte needed more tuning, but this reversion was too much. Charging hurts my throw-using classes and casters more than it helps, and forces yet another playstyle revision. I can't stick a charged shot in between throw's fast cd w/o delaying BEs even more, plus no on-demand stagger for phantom packs.

Its just bad form. Really wish the thing simply functionned like all other charge-capable weapons- what's so wrong w/ that?

[121210Olivia]

[quote]InTheZone wrote...

How was it a nerf?

Basically, now you have to charge in the open and you'll die on Gold easily.[quote]


True, accurate and correct.

[quote]Nissun wrote...

Quit ****ing and learn how to use it. It's not that hard.[/quote]

Vulgar, Neanderthal, and offensive.

Edit: formatting

Modifié par 121210Olivia, 19 décembre 2012 - 02:45 .

[Titus Thongger]

back in the day you could fire the acolyte while sprinting, so you didnt have to stop and fire while you were a spawn nuking drell

and you could fire AS you biotic charged.

the tears of bsn pre-acolyte haters is glorious.

[Hiero Glyph]

mackfactor wrote...

Hiero Glyph wrote...

Yeah, I totally agree about the charge mechanic being back again.  It requires limited skill to use effectively and you do not have to deal with the horrendous reload pause after your final shot.  Hopefully this will prevent the randoms from using it ad naseum.

Riiiiiight. Because randoms are just so uncool and anything they do is to be looked down upon with revulsion.

It has nothing to do with being cool, but has everything to do with understanding how to use the weapon and its charge mechanic effectively.  Most public players do not understand the mechanics of the game enough to know how/when to use a weapon effectively.  It is no different than talking about specific skills on this forum.  While there is some perference for playing style, most disregard skills simply because they requires some effort to use properly.

There is a huge different between a simple, yet effective weapon or skill and one that requires practice and making adjustments in playing style to utilize.  Lash and Homing Grenades are great examples of this in action and you will read several uninformed opions regarding them both.  While I openly admit that I avoid specific weapons or skills due to my preferred playing style, I won't claim that a weapon or skill is bad or weak simply because I am unable to use it effectively as I realize it is my own shortcomings that cause this weakness.  The same cannot be said for many other posters on this forum.

The Acolyte's charge mechanic being reinstated results in faster successive shots, less delay before reloading, and the ability to fire the weapon while running.  All of these are fantastic changes once a player takes the time to adjust to the charge mechanic.

Modifié par Hiero Glyph, 19 décembre 2012 - 02:54 .

[Titus Thongger]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Some people like it more with with charge mechanic. I can't begin to comprehend why, but to each their own. Honestly, I'm kind of glad the Acolyte will cease to be the no brainer caster weapon it was without the charge mechanic.

 

Might have something to do with the fact that it fires much faster with the charge mechanic?

and no more delay when you want to reload the damn thing

[cuzIMgood]

No, it was way overpowered, now it is only still the best pistol.

[MP-Ryan]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Some people like it more with with charge mechanic. I can't begin to comprehend why, but to each their own. Honestly, I'm kind of glad the Acolyte will cease to be the no brainer caster weapon it was without the charge mechanic.

 

Might have something to do with the fact that it fires much faster with the charge mechanic?

And can be fired while under TC.

And can be fired while running.

And switches to the Hurricane you should also be carrying much faster.

And... yeah.

The charge mechanic is what kept the Acolyte balanced.  It was either bring that back, or prepare to see it turn into the next Krysae.  My vote was for the former, so I'm quite pleased that happened.