138 réponses à ce sujet

[Arppis]

Why does the character carry the staff on his back in the first place? Why can't he just hold it in his hand? 

I don't know, but it kinda looks silly. I mean, it's not like Hawke or Warden does any climbing or something.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

You mean why can't they just walk around with it like Gandalf does?



BioWare probably has them strap it on their back for much the same reason that they started having characters sheath their weapons in all their games post-KOTOR: it looks silly when characters are interacting with an object or emoting with manual gestures while holding a weapon.

[Battlebloodmage]

It looks more consistent when cutscenes started to play. They can't just have the staffs suddenly disappear or quickly put away the staff everytime. They would also require extra resources since sword and bow probably require different put away animations in different cutscenes.

[Arppis]

Yeah, I know technical issues are at work. Ofcourse. But I'd love it if they would find a way around this problem in the 3rd game. Why not break some ground?

[Captain Crash]

I like the staff on the back.  Unlike Gandalf (or other stereotypical Wizards) my mage isn't about 70 and in need of a walking stick.

Im not using the staff,  I dont want to walk around with a lump of wood in my hand all day.  I prefer it on my back.

[Arppis]

Captain Crash wrote...

I like the staff on the back.  Unlike Gandalf (or other stereotypical Wizards) my mage isn't about 70 and in need of a walking stick.

Im not using the staff,  I dont want to walk around with a lump of wood in my hand all day.  I prefer it on my back.

Well each for it's own. For me it looks kinda silly to carry something like that on back. I'd use it as walking staff personaly.

[Captain Crash]

Actually until recently I thought there was a universal acceptance of of them being on your back. I personally think it looks pretty good. When Skyrim never did it I thought it was the biggest oversight ever.  Turns out a lot of people were happy with it.  Seemed odd to me, but like you said everyone has their own preference. I was just a little surprised I was a bit oblivious to it.

Also reading my initial post again, that came off a little snappy which wasn't my intention.  I think I have some pent up issues with Skyrim not having it still.

[Case Alexander]

My only issue with it is that it seems to just sort of float there....
No strap or anything to actually keep it from falling.

Then again I guess that can be said for all the weapons.

But something akin to Assassins Creed 3 would probably be my ideal for weapons placement. At least in terms from the way the Bow and arrows are placed...

[Treacherous J Slither]

Heck, I don't like the staff PERIOD. Mages shouldn't need them to do basic attacks. They should be able to fight bare handed. Carrying that thing around breaks lore because it immediately identifies someone as a mage and it's ridiculous to think that the Templars don't see a 5+ft staff hanging off some chumps back.

[Tatinger]

JSlither wrote...

Heck, I don't like the staff PERIOD. Mages shouldn't need them to do basic attacks. They should be able to fight bare handed. Carrying that thing around breaks lore because it immediately identifies someone as a mage and it's ridiculous to think that the Templars don't see a 5+ft staff hanging off some chumps back.

Yeah, that took me out of the whole experience too.  It was so ridiculously obvious who was a mage in the game that I was surprised that it took the Templars until the beginning of Chapter Two to arrest Bethany.  If anything, with Kirkwall being in heavily surveyed lockdown the way it was, she should have been nabbed as soon as she had stepped off the boat.  Then, knowing that your character associates with mages, as soon as you make your way back to the city from your adventures with Merrill on Sundermount, the city guard should have been there waiting for you -- ready to pounce.  Actually, seen from that point of view, a whole new set of parameters could have opened up for the third part of the story: rescuing your friends from The Gallows.  In retrospect, this which might've made people more sympathetic to the mages' plight.  Or, at least, balanced out some of the horrible blood magicky things that mages were doing throughout the game with trying to save your mage friends and thus creating more of a moral grey area, which I think was the whole intent.

Modifié par Tatinger, 19 décembre 2012 - 12:11 .

[Kileyan]

Captain Crash wrote...

Actually until recently I thought there was a universal acceptance of of them being on your back. I personally think it looks pretty good. When Skyrim never did it I thought it was the biggest oversight ever.  Turns out a lot of people were happy with it.  Seemed odd to me, but like you said everyone has their own preference. I was just a little surprised I was a bit oblivious to it.

Also reading my initial post again, that came off a little snappy which wasn't my intention.  I think I have some pent up issues with Skyrim not having it still.

Np people feel strongly about things. I am on the opposite end, I've never really heard of a mechansim to strap a staff to your back, a staff sheathe?

I'm not 70, but I carry a long walking stick when on long hikes. I use them to lean on, help up tricky inclines, pushing sticker plants and vines out of my way, the all important job of knocking down long paths of spider webs in summer, crossing slick slimy rocky stream beds.

Its one of those handy dandy tools you carry, especially in a world where horses can't be ridden and  you must walk everywhere.

Mostly though I don't see the problem of a staff showing up in a cutscene, have the actor lean on it, or just hold it, why is it so much cooler to have it strapped to his back, which I have never heard off outside of maybe WoW. It certainly isn't a standard to me.

[Wulfram]

Kileyan wrote...

Mostly though I don't see the problem of a staff showing up in a cutscene, have the actor lean on it, or just hold it, why is it so much cooler to have it strapped to his back, which I have never heard off outside of maybe WoW. It certainly isn't a standard to me.

You're probably going to want the character to gesture, and you don't want to spend a whole bunch of resources for special animations that make this not look silly with a great big stick in their hands.

edit:  Also, RPG characters run everywhere, which would make using a stick in movement kind of awkward.

Modifié par Wulfram, 19 décembre 2012 - 01:59 .

[Saibh]

JSlither wrote...

Heck, I don't like the staff PERIOD. Mages shouldn't need them to do basic attacks. They should be able to fight bare handed. Carrying that thing around breaks lore because it immediately identifies someone as a mage and it's ridiculous to think that the Templars don't see a 5+ft staff hanging off some chumps back.

It enhances their abilities, though. And since your PC spends a lot of time in combat, it's reasonable to assume they'd want a staff. And it's also because it adds variety and customization options. 

DAII made a lot less sense with the whole staff thing, considering you didn't have Grey Warden immunity. It would have been cool to have a little cutscene somewhere where templars tried ambushing you in DAO (it could even work for non-mages with the presence of Morrigan and all), but I can imagine it happened anyway. I digress. And, in DAO, I think you could choose to unequip your staff. Not really an excuse for DAII, though.

It doesn't bother me at all--you accept that somehow they're carting around five suits of armor, 400 gold, three bows, and a nug, don't you? And yet they're clearly not wearing packs (even if they were, where do greatswords fit, exactly?). It's just an abstraction and a necessary result of video game mechanics. Leaving them floating on your back is probably the least destracting thing they could do.

Nizaris1 wrote...

Bioware must change their rigidness about Mages must carry staff.

Mages can use swords in DAO, but the reality is that it's there to add definition to each class. Each class is distinct in DAII, with little overlap. Mages in DAO could be better tanks than your sword-and-shield warrior. I suppose it's to make people more careful about their tactic and party considerations. It becomes more critical for you to choose a good set-up if everyone is limited by what they can use.

As for why they don't have wands or something, I assume it's an animation thing--they don't really want to model or animate anything besides a staff. 

Modifié par Saibh, 19 décembre 2012 - 02:15 .

[Kileyan]

Wulfram wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

Mostly though I don't see the problem of a staff showing up in a cutscene, have the actor lean on it, or just hold it, why is it so much cooler to have it strapped to his back, which I have never heard off outside of maybe WoW. It certainly isn't a standard to me.

edit:  Also, RPG characters run everywhere, which would make using a stick in movement kind of awkward.

Why? Just hold the staff near its balance point and run, not so hard. Carrying a staff is NOT the same as having to hobble around using it as a cane or crutch while moving or running.

We will have to disagree, I find it laughable that someone straps a 6 foot object to their back, go head and try it. While moving around in the world, ducking under branches and climbing over rocks, that would get in your way much more often than just carrying the darn thing.

Now I am all for saying mages requiring 6 ft staves to attack is silly, although I cannot agree that my impressive Hawkester the Mage would look all that impressive carrying around a wand either.

I don't like the requirements at all, I'd be fine with a mage being open handed or channeling his magic through a more usefull object like a sword.

[Heimdall]

Kileyan wrote...

Np people feel strongly about things. I am on the opposite end, I've never really heard of a mechansim to strap a staff to your back, a staff sheathe?

I'm not 70, but I carry a long walking stick when on long hikes. I use them to lean on, help up tricky inclines, pushing sticker plants and vines out of my way, the all important job of knocking down long paths of spider webs in summer, crossing slick slimy rocky stream beds.

Its one of those handy dandy tools you carry, especially in a world where horses can't be ridden and  you must walk everywhere.

Mostly though I don't see the problem of a staff showing up in a cutscene, have the actor lean on it, or just hold it, why is it so much cooler to have it strapped to his back, which I have never heard off outside of maybe WoW. It certainly isn't a standard to me.

I don't think Bioware uses mo-cap actors for cutscenes.  They create the animations themselves.  Keeping the staffs on the back allows them to use the same animations for all classes, its just economical and understandably a low priority compared to the rest of the game.

[DeathScepter]

It supposed to have at least 2 functions; 1) a Focusing tool for their craft or Art and 2) Big Walking Stick.

I don't mind to have an Unarmed Mage that uses Amulets, Talismens or lucky charms as a focus for their arts.

or have Sigils being tattooed or painted is perfectly alright. Empowered Swords through Glyphs and Sigils are good. Of course Enchancments are the way to go with Empowering Swords and Armor.

It is archtype of Warriors to be Either 2 handers or Sword and Boards; Rogues being Duel Wielding or Archers; Mages being Staff wielders. It comes from Lord of the Rings Legacy in which Much of the DnD Lore comes from.

[Saibh]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Mages/magicians in real world or fantasy actually don't look like magicians in DA

When we look at David Copperfield if we don't already know he's a magician, do he look like magician? He look like any other ordinary guy

Yeah, he's not a mage. He's a performer. Stage magic doesn't even start to apply to fantasy magic. 

In fantasy world, witches, evil magician wear rags, ugly and dirty, riding broom, and wizards with pointy hat with a wand...

So from where Mages MUST carry a staff come from?

Why DA specifically uses only staves in combat? As I said, presumably for animation reasons. Wands look kind of dinky compared to swords or longbows, so they picked staves. And they chose to only animate them. Maybe someday we'll see other kinds. 

As for where staves came from in association with magic and wizards?

Merlin. Merlin is the answer. 

[DeathScepter]

Nizaris1 is right. Mages shouldn't be limit to just the Staff. Staff, regardless of age, is a useful weapon and with a non mage, it can be useful for many Non Magical AOE abilities. So Regardless of class, a Dedicated Staff wielder can be a good use on a team.

In my older post, Sigils can be painted or tattooed on for a Magical buff. So Why Not have a Mage have his face Painted due to a Magical tradition or have tattoos on his body to reflect another magic tradition.

[DeathScepter]

Mages, having a staff is a non issue for me. But for Roleplaying purposes, it should be reflective of the magical traditions than anything else.

[Saibh]

Nizaris1 wrote...

As for where staves came from in association with magic and wizards?

Merlin. Merlin is the answer.

Yoda in Star wars episode 2 carry staff when walking, because he is old, 400 years old, but when magic battle with Dooku, he throw away his staff, then he fencing with lightsaber jumping around and striking...

That is the actual reason why Mages being stereotypically carrying a staff, because the character is old person. Not because the staff have power or a must, just for the person can walk properly

And actually, Mages carry staff is driven by the image of Moses carrying staff have a challenge with Pharaoh magicians...and splitting the sea...

Merlin i know using wand...

The reason women are carried over the threshold in weddings is in reference of the rape of the Sabine women. 

This is not actually relevant to why women are carried over the threshold now. It's not "I'm kidnapping you", it's just a symbol of marriage. 

Regardless of the origin of the archetype, mages and staves are closely associated now. There is no rule that they ONLY use staves, but it's not coming out of thin air. It's also simply a matter of RPG classes and class distinction. 

Merlin had a wand in the legend, but he was artistically depicted as having a staff. Same with the robes and beards and old men thing.