138 réponses à ce sujet

[Uccio]

Thats just lame excuse.

[DeathScepter]

Swagger7 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Swagger7 wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

that is not the issue, the issue is THE IDENTITY

of course anyone can use staff and maybe better with it, but do they carry staff in ancient time? Only old men carry staff, and even young men can use staff better because learn it he never use it because he never carry a staff until he get old

As an Asian martial artist, it probably annoys you whenever ignorant Westerners start making silly comments about your martial arts and history.  Please stop doing the same thing to us.

Read this:
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Quarterstaff

thank you.

You are quite welcome.

I am always interested in the martial arts. And Yes there is a lot to learn about them. 

[Arppis]

Saibh wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Personally, I kind of wish we'd just go back to having weapons disappear when they aren't being used. At least, unless we get some sort of proper sheathes.

Well, I hope the swords wouldn't do that. I wish the characters would carry the shields on their arms when you are not in the city.

It would look goofy during animations and while your character was sprinting along.

Don't think it would look that silly. I recall the "running" or jogging animation to be pretty tame in DA2.

[Wulfram]

Bioware didn't invent the Consular. The Star War Roleplaying Game on which KotOR was loosely based had it.

[MaggieSh]

So, I've read this thread from beginning to end, and...it's confusing. Nizaris, why do you keep switching topics? This appeared to be a thread to discuss the odd placement of the staff, and then you just went off on several tangents on WHY the staff is there in the first place, or WHY templars don't notice them.

If you wanted to talk about the idiocy of templars, or what you perceive to be an inaccurate choice(which is your opinion and appears to be an unpopular one) in magical weaponry, perhaps you should have created a thread on that.

As is, your topic jumping makes you appear as though you are unwilling to listen to well thought out arguments to the haphazard statements you've been throwing out.

[Allan Schumacher]

Wulfram wrote...

You're probably going to want the character to gesture, and you don't want to spend a whole bunch of resources for special animations that make this not look silly with a great big stick in their hands.

This is going to be a large reason.  Especially if we have animations set up that aren't explicitly used in a controlled cutscene.

If we just kept it attached at the end in the same spot, it'd act REALLY REALLY weird because it'd often end up looking weightless and things like that, as it spins around.  They're also clipping nightmares.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 19 décembre 2012 - 07:47 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

scyphozoa wrote...

I would love to have a "hide weapon" toggle the same way Bioware introduced a "hide helmet" toggle.

Being able to equip and unequip weapons from the hotbar (like NWN) amounts to the same thing.

I don't understand why that feature ever went away.

[Allan Schumacher]

In SWTOR, Consular/Inquisitor is the Bioware Mage from the Holy Trinity, they use Lightstaff (double blade lightsaber), it have become an icon for Mage type class in Bioware

I was always under the impression that consulars were best suited for a single bladed saber (with dueling to boot) since they don't get the BAB to compensate for the 2-handed penalty.

[Dhiro]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Mages carry a staff is Bioware standard Mage design in any Bioware games even Star Wars (except KotOR) like i mention before.

In SWTOR, Consular/Inquisitor is the Bioware Mage from the Holy Trinity, they use Lightstaff (double blade lightsaber), it have become an icon for Mage type class in Bioware

While in original Star wars there are no such thing as Guardian, Sentinel, Consular whatever....but because of Bioware games must have the Holy trinity, and so we got a tank, dps and nuker type of Jedi, and these rigidly being presented by tough guy, agile guy and weakling guy carry a staff

The very same thing being imposed in DA, when the character is a Mage, we will see they carry staff at their back, we easily identify them as Mages, even the NPCs are blind dumb

That kill immersion...

Actually, a Consular/Inquisitor can only use a single-saber lightsaber. If the Consular becomes a Shadow/Assassin they will be able to use a saberstaff... but they will also become much closer to battlemages. Sages/Sorcerers on other hands, are pretty much Space Mages, and are unable to use saberstaves.

So I dunno what you're talking about, sorry.

If you mean Knights of the Old Republic, however, a Consular can use any kind of saber s/he wants, staff or not, and in fact start with a single-bladed one.

[Wulfram]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

In SWTOR, Consular/Inquisitor is the Bioware Mage from the Holy Trinity, they use Lightstaff (double blade lightsaber), it have become an icon for Mage type class in Bioware

I was always under the impression that consulars were best suited for a single bladed saber (with dueling to boot) since they don't get the BAB to compensate for the 2-handed penalty.

You're thinking KotOR not SWtOR. 

In SWtOR, Sages equip single sabre but never use it to attack anything after they get their advanced class because they're pure casters, while Shadows use a doublebladed lightsaber but aren't really casters.

Modifié par Wulfram, 19 décembre 2012 - 08:09 .

[Tatinger]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

In SWTOR, Consular/Inquisitor is the Bioware Mage from the Holy Trinity, they use Lightstaff (double blade lightsaber), it have become an icon for Mage type class in Bioware

I was always under the impression that consulars were best suited for a single bladed saber (with dueling to boot) since they don't get the BAB to compensate for the 2-handed penalty.

That's how I use mine, as well.

[Arppis]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

You're probably going to want the character to gesture, and you don't want to spend a whole bunch of resources for special animations that make this not look silly with a great big stick in their hands.

This is going to be a large reason.  Especially if we have animations set up that aren't explicitly used in a controlled cutscene.

If we just kept it attached at the end in the same spot, it'd act REALLY REALLY weird because it'd often end up looking weightless and things like that, as it spins around.  They're also clipping nightmares.

Well, shoot. Can't make left arm NOT to make gestures and instead being the hand where you could hold stuff in?

[bombspy]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This is going to be a large reason.  Especially if we have animations set up that aren't explicitly used in a controlled cutscene.

If we just kept it attached at the end in the same spot, it'd act REALLY REALLY weird because it'd often end up looking weightless and things like that, as it spins around.  They're also clipping nightmares.

But you admit that it looks weird as well if your staff just floats a few cm away from you back in the air.

I hope Bioware finds finally a way to add the weapons believable to the characters. Frostbite 2 should have enough ressources to make it possible.

Please no hover weapons anymore.

[MacNille]

For a onehand sword, they should just use this:

Come on Bioware, It is not that hard.

[Arppis]

MacNille wrote...

For a onehand sword, they should just use this:

Come on Bioware, It is not that hard.

Aye... Even holding a staff in that position (well lower angle on arm) wouldn't be a problem.

[Wulfram]

That's what you'd want, yeah. I guess it's on a place that moves a lot, so clipping and stuff gets in the way.

And I don't know if it might not look silly with the oversized weapons we've got.

[Allan Schumacher]

You're thinking KotOR not SWtOR.

In SWtOR, Sages equip single sabre but never use it to attack anything after they get their advanced class because they're pure casters, while Shadows use a doublebladed lightsaber but aren't really casters.

Oh! Hah! I figured since we weren't talking about an MMO (DA3), I did totally read that as KOTOR. Especially since that's where Consulars were introduced in a video game setting. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

[hoorayforicecream]

Arppis wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

You're probably going to want the character to gesture, and you don't want to spend a whole bunch of resources for special animations that make this not look silly with a great big stick in their hands.

This is going to be a large reason.  Especially if we have animations set up that aren't explicitly used in a controlled cutscene.

If we just kept it attached at the end in the same spot, it'd act REALLY REALLY weird because it'd often end up looking weightless and things like that, as it spins around.  They're also clipping nightmares.

Well, shoot. Can't make left arm NOT to make gestures and instead being the hand where you could hold stuff in?

Yes, you can. It just means you've doubled the number of gesture animations the animators have to create, as well as the things that QA has to test.

[Allan Schumacher]

bombspy wrote...

But you admit that it looks weird as well if your staff just floats a few cm away from you back in the air.

Actually, it doesn't bother me as a gamer at all.  I can't really say why.  It didn't bother me before I started working for a game dev either.  /shrug

Yes, it doesn't look realistic.  But a strict adherence to realism isn't something that I think is necessary in my gaming tastes.

I hope Bioware finds finally a way to add the weapons believable to the characters. Frostbite 2 should have enough ressources to make it possible.

Please no hover weapons anymore.

It's not really an engine thing.  It's a "account for all the variations" thing.  The post above yours says "Well, shoot. Can't make left arm NOT to make gestures and instead being the hand where you could hold stuff in?"

We could make the left arm not make gestures, but that means that the left arm will then pretty much never make gestures, because making double the animations to accommodate for these is a non-trivial thing to do.  Right now, all characters, regardless of class (and I think even gender) will use the same base animation for running.  As long as that run animation looks good, we cover 6 variations on that alone (not counting that the same animation can probably still be used for elves and dwarves too).

Suddenly we add a staff to the mages, and now we've gone from one animation for running, to at least two, possibly 3 if we find that the elf mage needs special considerations.

Say we have 4 standard emotes that frequently get used in talking that use both hands.  If we're keeping weapons in the hand, suddenly those emotes have to be done in a way that not only takes into account the fact that there may be weapons in their hands, but also different types of weapons.  This will end up placing restrictions on either the way the weapons can look, or the way the emotes behave.  Unless, of course, we make custom animations for each permutation.  Which is prohibitively expensive.  We go from 4 standard emotes to maybe 1 (no variation with the same weapons) for each weapon type.  Or we start exploding into 8, 12, 16 animations.


Of course, competition is going to exert some pressure.  People will look at Geralt and go "BioWare, give me scabbards like they did!"  I think it's easier to do when you have a more fixed protagonist (Geralt has two swords, and they'll always be in the same place) because anticipating the permutations becomes easier.

I don't suspect we'll always have floating weapons from now until forever.  I just think that, as a gamer myself, it's typically on the "nice to have" variety.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 19 décembre 2012 - 09:22 .

[TEWR]

It'd be nice to have them use it as a walking stick as opposed to a magical back-brace that isn't even attached to them, but something tells me that a more realistic placing of weaponry when not in battle isn't on the table ever.

[Wulfram]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I don't suspect we'll always have floating weapons from now until forever.  I just think that, as a gamer myself, it's typically on the "nice to have" variety.

How about a...  *hides behind sofa* ... toggle that can let us just turn them off when they aren't being used.

[Allan Schumacher]

How about a... *hides behind sofa* ... toggle that can let us just turn them off when they aren't being used.

As in hide the weapons outright? It's certainly more doable than several animations.

A blanket solution of "hide weapons" would have potential problems with some scenes, so unfortunately I wouldn't consider it trivial. Situations where weapons did need to be drawn in a cinematic, and stuff like that. Might not be too difficult to do. I wouldn't know the finer details of what all is involved, unfortunately.

[hoorayforicecream]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Of course, competition is going to exert some pressure.  People will look at Geralt and go "BioWare, give me scabbards like they did!"  I think it's easier to do when you have a more fixed protagonist (Geralt has two swords, and they'll always be in the same place) because anticipating the permutations becomes easier.

The thing that most folks may not have noticed about Geralt's swords is that the only thing that was different about them was their hilts. The blades are all of uniform length, shape, and width. The crossguard and the pommels differed, but all steel swords and all silver swords all still had the same respective dimensions in order for the animations and scabbards to work with them.

I imagine that it could be easy to fix such issues in Dragon Age. All that would have to happen is that all weapons of each type must adhere to standardized sizes and shapes for certain parts, specifically the area where the hands grip, and the area around where the weapon attaches to the back. If you can guarantee that the 3D space around the weapon's attachment point will always be the same size, then the developers can get rid of the floatiness and possibly even toss in a scabbard or a carrying strap. If they vary in size, shape, and look, then this rapidly becomes a much more expensive endeavor.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 19 décembre 2012 - 09:43 .