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[Lokiwithrope]

Could someone fill me in on this? I'm hopefully lost.

[DeathScepter]

In another universe(Mass Effect Deception), Kai Leng broke into David Anderson's place and ate his cereal. And kills a main character from a previous book with a toothbrush.

Modifié par DeathScepter, 19 décembre 2012 - 04:39 .

[FJVP]

Don't forget that he also pees in vases.

[Lokiwithrope]

DeathScepter wrote...

In another universe(Mass Effect Deception), Kai Leng broke into David Anderson's place and ate his cereal. And kills a main character from a previous book with a toothbrush.

Seriously? That's... kinda hardcore.

[Red Panda]

Lokiwithrope wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

In another universe(Mass Effect Deception), Kai Leng broke into David Anderson's place and ate his cereal. And kills a main character from a previous book with a toothbrush.

Seriously? That's... kinda hardcore.

He totally should have killed Thane with a toothbrush.

[DeathScepter]

Lokiwithrope wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

In another universe(Mass Effect Deception), Kai Leng broke into David Anderson's place and ate his cereal. And kills a main character from a previous book with a toothbrush.

Seriously? That's... kinda hardcore.

Well Kai leng at his best, is in Mass Effect Retribution. Drew's Mass Effect books are quite good better than his Star wars books. And His verison of Kai Leng is much better, smarter and hardcore. Drew's Kai Leng is 100x better than ME3 and Deception.

I have nothing against Space Ninjas but In Mass Effect 3, Kai Leng wasn't well written. Yes I love Badass Space Ninja regardless of series.

[Someone With Mass]

Lokiwithrope wrote...
Seriously? That's... kinda hardcore.

Given the context of the story, it's really not.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 19 décembre 2012 - 04:48 .

[Kileyan]

You know how some dogs pee in a corner to mark their territory?

Apparently Kai Leng eats peoples cereal instead of peeing on it. I think that should clear everything up..........or not:)

Also he pees on things anyway, just because he can.

He is a hardcore cereal eating guy who has to pee a lot. To be fair, he may have to pee a lot since Anderson blew up the lower portions of his body with a shotgun.

Seriously Kai Leng was a badass assassin in a book about Mass Effect. He would watch your routines for weeks, learn your weaknesses and kill you. If rushed he'd still likely kill you, but he was good at his job and didn't like leaving traces or getting caught.

In the books he was great, in the game was just a silly ninja comic book character. One the the many things ME3 fugged up.

Modifié par Kileyan, 19 décembre 2012 - 04:54 .

[Obadiah]

I've found that I look forward to the Kai Leng encounters in ME3. Someone gets a good death, and that car scene is hilarious.

I gained a bit more respect for the character after reading Retribution, but that's not where the cereal-and-toothbrush-thing came from.

[Reth Shepherd]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...
Seriously? That's... kinda hardcore.

Given the context of the story, it's really not.

Yeah, that rage comic? 100% accurate. I have no idea how that book made it past quality control, much less GOT PRAISED by Chris Priestly. How the frell?!

[Animositisomina]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...
Seriously? That's... kinda hardcore.

Given the context of the story, it's really not.

Yeah, that rage comic? 100% accurate. I have no idea how that book made it past quality control, much less GOT PRAISED by Chris Priestly. How the frell?!

You really expect a BioWare employee to come out and bash one of their products?

[TheWerdna]

Lokiwithrope wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

In another universe(Mass Effect Deception), Kai Leng broke into David Anderson's place and ate his cereal. And kills a main character from a previous book with a toothbrush.

Seriously? That's... kinda hardcore.

While this comic itself if fan-made, the dialogue is taken directly from the book...

[WhiteKnyght]

Lokiwithrope wrote...

Could someone fill me in on this? I'm hopefully lost.

Cereal: Kai Leng has an intense grudge against Anderson for shooting him in the legs. It wasn't so much the Cereal as it was that he was messing with Anderson's stuff without him being any the wiser. It was a psychological way to feel powerful; likely to make up for the powerlessness he previously felt at Anderson's hands. At least that's my opinion. Either way, a guy's gotta eat.

Toothbrush: Kai Leng was in prison. Prisoners will make anything they can get their hands on into a weapon. Toothbrushes are a very commoon item to be used to make a makeshift knife because everybody needs one. I believe the novel even referred to it as a "prison style shank"


I actually like how Dietz highlighted Leng's time in prison before being busted out by Cerberus. Prisons have a psychological effect on people, sometimes traumatizing. In some cases, it's about survival. Karpyshyn never bothered to do that I guess because it wasn't relevant to what was going on.

William C. Dietz took time to develop all of the important characters of the novel. Kahlee and Anderson had already been developed, but Gillian, Nick, Leng, and Hendel had a lot of new insights into their characters given.

A few errors aside, people shouldn't be condemning Dietz, they should be complimenting him. He was brought in at the final hours of a project to finish someone else's story. And aside from the few lore errors, he still told an interesting story. I read Deception faster than I read Revelation, Ascension, or Retribution.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 19 décembre 2012 - 05:45 .

[WhiteKnyght]

DeathScepter wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

In another universe(Mass Effect Deception), Kai Leng broke into David Anderson's place and ate his cereal. And kills a main character from a previous book with a toothbrush.

Seriously? That's... kinda hardcore.

Well Kai leng at his best, is in Mass Effect Retribution. Drew's Mass Effect books are quite good better than his Star wars books. And His verison of Kai Leng is much better, smarter and hardcore. Drew's Kai Leng is 100x better than ME3 and Deception.

I have nothing against Space Ninjas but In Mass Effect 3, Kai Leng wasn't well written. Yes I love Badass Space Ninja regardless of series.

Thane was a space ninja too.

Anybody using that to slam Leng is slamming Thane too. He just didn't use one of those swords. Which are actally designed to cut through kinetic barriers. They serve a purpose.

[FaWa]

We were supposed to respect him as a villain

[The RPGenius]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...
Seriously? That's... kinda hardcore.

Given the context of the story, it's really not.

Yeah, that rage comic? 100% accurate. I have no idea how that book made it past quality control, much less GOT PRAISED by Chris Priestly. How the frell?!

Yeah, it would totally, definitely for sure be the very first time that a Bioware employee said that something blatantly horrible was awesome.

[Jadebaby]

Still makes me laugh...

And Chris Priestly didn't just praise it. Casey Hudson did too....

[Zardoc]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...

Could someone fill me in on this? I'm hopefully lost.

-praising Dietz' horrible writing snip-

The f*ck am I reading...

Thane was a space ninja too.

Anybody using that to slam Leng is slamming Thane too. He just didn't use one of those swords. Which are actally designed to cut through kinetic barriers. They serve a purpose.

Thane was a proper assassin who used his head. Post Retribution Kai Leng was a weeaboo retard with a sword.

Modifié par Zardoc, 19 décembre 2012 - 08:53 .

[XXIceColdXX]

Yeah Deception was embarassing, and is where i really started to have doubts on Bioware's commitment to the quality and continuity of the franchise.

Remember this tweet from Casey! "Finished my final review of the #MassEffect Deception novel. A really fun lead-in to #ME3! Kai Leng is a badass."

[JamesFaith]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Toothbrush: Kai Leng was in prison. Prisoners will make anything they can get their hands on into a weapon. Toothbrushes are a very commoon item to be used to make a makeshift knife because everybody needs one. I believe the novel even referred to it as a "prison style shank"

Main problem isnť that he killed her with toothbrush. Yes, this is happening in prisons. No doubt Dietz took inspiration from some prison movie. But main problem is - where he got that toothbrush? This is description of his cell:

Other than the light, the bucket that had been placed in a corner, and the narrow bed, there was no furniture in the room. Nothing that could be transformed into a weapon, used as a pick, or otherwise turned against his captors. 

So he was in room without furniture and flowing water and they gave him toothbrush? Even if they brought him some washbowl and tootbrush, how could they missed he keep it? Not mentioned that he was under constant surveillence.

This is one basic mistake I'm warning young writters before - every action, dialog and description have consequences in story, so be carefull to not contradict yourselves. And exactly this Dietz did.

I really like how Dietz highlighted Leng's time in prison before being busted out by Cerberus. Prisons have a psychological effect on people, sometimes traumatizing. In some cases, it's about survival. Karpyshyn never bothered to do that I guess because it wasn't relevant to what was going on.

Again, no problem with prison scene in common, but with its form. Alliance in ME is desribed as moraly advanced organisation, but yet they are using prison looking like gulags? Really? Such types of prisons was closed in advanced world during first half of 20th century, only states like CCCP and North Corea using them later. Such place in such form can't exist in democratic society with free press.

This was just another example, when Dietz used something, because he considered it cool, but didn't think too much about consequences.

William C. Dietz took time to develop all of the important characters of the novel. Kahlee and Anderson had already been developed, but Gillian, Nick, Leng, and Hendel had a lot of new insights into their characters given.

And this... You are maybe right with Nick, but other? Gillian stripped of ALL autistic characteristic and turned to just little confused teenager? And Hendel, who was changed from proud self-control soldier with iron will to drunk choleric, who was threatening everyone, within TWO days? This wasn't "new insights", this was reshaping of characters so Dietz can used them his way - which is against one off main rules of shared series. Yes, you can change characters, but not so fast and illogically.

Deception wasn't bad just because lore mistakes, but there were also bad dialogs, works with characters, stylistic and weak story.

[Demonique]

 In Mass Effect: Deception (a novel which also retcons Gillian Grayson's autism and Hendel's homosexuality) Kai Leng breaks into Anderson's apartment and eats his cereal and later kills Gillian with a sharpened toothbrush

There's also something involving pissing in a vase

[Xandurpein]

To be honest, one of the worst aspects of Kai Leng in ME3 is that no one has yet to design a combat system that is fun to play and yet doesn't produce ludicrous visual scenes when you pit someone armed with melee weapons against someone with guns.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 19 décembre 2012 - 02:33 .

[WhiteKnyght]

JamesFaith wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Toothbrush: Kai Leng was in prison. Prisoners will make anything they can get their hands on into a weapon. Toothbrushes are a very commoon item to be used to make a makeshift knife because everybody needs one. I believe the novel even referred to it as a "prison style shank"

Main problem isnť that he killed her with toothbrush. Yes, this is happening in prisons. No doubt Dietz took inspiration from some prison movie. But main problem is - where he got that toothbrush? This is description of his cell:

Other than the light, the bucket that had been placed in a corner, and the narrow bed, there was no furniture in the room. Nothing that could be transformed into a weapon, used as a pick, or otherwise turned against his captors. 

So he was in room without furniture and flowing water and they gave him toothbrush? Even if they brought him some washbowl and tootbrush, how could they missed he keep it? Not mentioned that he was under constant surveillence.

This is one basic mistake I'm warning young writters before - every action, dialog and description have consequences in story, so be carefull to not contradict yourselves. And exactly this Dietz did.

I really like how Dietz highlighted Leng's time in prison before being busted out by Cerberus. Prisons have a psychological effect on people, sometimes traumatizing. In some cases, it's about survival. Karpyshyn never bothered to do that I guess because it wasn't relevant to what was going on.

Again, no problem with prison scene in common, but with its form. Alliance in ME is desribed as moraly advanced organisation, but yet they are using prison looking like gulags? Really? Such types of prisons was closed in advanced world during first half of 20th century, only states like CCCP and North Corea using them later. Such place in such form can't exist in democratic society with free press.

This was just another example, when Dietz used something, because he considered it cool, but didn't think too much about consequences.

William C. Dietz took time to develop all of the important characters of the novel. Kahlee and Anderson had already been developed, but Gillian, Nick, Leng, and Hendel had a lot of new insights into their characters given.

And this... You are maybe right with Nick, but other? Gillian stripped of ALL autistic characteristic and turned to just little confused teenager? And Hendel, who was changed from proud self-control soldier with iron will to drunk choleric, who was threatening everyone, within TWO days? This wasn't "new insights", this was reshaping of characters so Dietz can used them his way - which is against one off main rules of shared series. Yes, you can change characters, but not so fast and illogically.

Deception wasn't bad just because lore mistakes, but there were also bad dialogs, works with characters, stylistic and weak story.

- Ever think maybe Leng's ex-gf might have slipped him one when she broke him out and revealed herself to him?

- Also did you even pay attention in Ascension at all? In Paul Grayson's narratives, Gillian was normal when she was young, and later in the novel, her condition begins to improve aboard the Flotilla because she's not being doped up by Cerberus all the time. Which is why Paul let her stay there. The meaning is that Gillians condition is the fault of Cerberus, she might not have even truly been autistic, just suffering the side effects of years of strange drugs. If you look on wiki it says " The diagnostic criteria require that symptoms become apparent before a child is three years old." Gillian was more than three years old IIRC when her symptoms manifested.

- Also Hendel, if you even paid attention in Deception, you'd see that was explained. When Hendel was in the Alliance, when he was head of security at Grissom Academy, and when he was taking care of Gillian on the Idenna, he had something to focus on - to keep himself straight. Some people are like that, when they work, they're committed, when they have nothing, they crash and burn. That was how Hendel's character was developed.

- Also "not so fast and illogically?" Deception is *three years later* than Ascension, the last time you saw Hendel or Gillian.

Also without comment from Drew Karpyshyn on Deception, you cant really say if these are errors in any way. He might have left some directions for how to write the novel and how to handle the characters.

Plus there were some errors in Retribution as well. If you noticed, when Anderson told Kahlee about the Reapers, they were news to her, even though her entire reason for being taken to the Quarian flotilla was so they could get her opinion on them. They even used the word "Reaper" in regards to Sovereign.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 19 décembre 2012 - 02:50 .