1388 réponses à ce sujet

[Bill Casey]

wiggles89 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Refuse is the only Paragon option...
Everything else is completely monstrous...

No. Allowing everyone in the galaxy to be wiped out just so that you can preserve your honour and ideals is monstrous, something that only the most craven individual would do.

We'll fight and win without it...
I won't let fear compromise who I am...

[Seboist]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

wiggles89 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Refuse is the only Paragon option...
Everything else is completely monstrous...

No. Allowing everyone in the galaxy to be wiped out just so that you can preserve your honour and ideals is monstrous, something that only the most craven individual would do.

We'll fight and win without it...

But you don't. You lose.

Lose in a pathethic way too, Shepard just stands there like an idio...well, as himself while my boy the Catalyst truimphs like a boss.

Modifié par Seboist, 23 décembre 2012 - 03:07 .

[Steelcan]

Bill Casey wrote...

wiggles89 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Refuse is the only Paragon option...
Everything else is completely monstrous...

No. Allowing everyone in the galaxy to be wiped out just so that you can preserve your honour and ideals is monstrous, something that only the most craven individual would do.

We'll fight and win without it...
I won't let fear compromise who I am...

I bet the innocents who were harvested by the Reapers took comfort that your Shepard lacked balls

[The Heretic of Time]

[quote]StayFrosty05 wrote...

Synthesis: Rape of the natural world and condemnation to disfigurement and removal of freedom of choice for all life eternally.
[/quote]

That's a load of horsecrap. What gives you the idea that Synthesis removes the freedom of choice? As dor disfigurement. That's just a matter of opinion. Everyone looked quite normal to me. They just got green shiz all over their bodies.


[quote]
Control: An eternity of I can trust myself never to corrupt and become the eternal Dictator with big guns....BullSh*t!
[/quote]

Your opinion and headcanon is bullsh*t. Paragon Shepard clearly does not take the roll of a dictator on himself in the Control ending. A Renegade Shepard might.


[quote]
Refuse: Condemn's everyone to death for what?
[/quote]

True.

[quote]
Destroy: Yes, it comes with horrific genocide of one entire species...but what
other choice is there?....It ends the reaper threat once and for all, for all life and all life to come.
[/quote]

There is Control and Synthesis to choose. Yet you choose the one and only ending where you commit genocide to end the reaper thread. Again, that isn't Paragon at all. That's a Renegade action.

There is nothing wrong with Destroy though. It's a valid choice with a very valid Renegade train of reasoning behind it.


[quote]
As for the Reapers and Heretic Geth, there's an old saying I feel fits perfectly here..."I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees"....
[/quote]

That's a nice way of justificing the RENEGADE decisions. Destroy the Heretic Geth is the Renegade option, that's just a fact. There is no arguing about that. Arguably the Destroy ending is also the Renegade option.


[quote[
I think you are mis-undertanding mostly Paragon ideals....
[/quote]

No I don't. The Paragon ideals are live and let-live. The Paragon always tries to take the moral highground and tries to end things with the least amount of casualties. "We do this the clean way, not the quick way." is a quote from Paragon Shepard.

[quote]
sometimes destruction is the best choice....
[/quote]

It is. That doesn't make it the Paragon choice though. Paragon choices aren't always the best choices. Sometimes Renegade choices are the best choices.


[quote]
being Paragon doesn't mean you simply roll over....
[/quote]

Most of the time it does.


[quote]
Then again I do think BW didn't know what they were talking about half the time either.....
[/quote]

So you claim to know it better than the devs themselves? LMAO! 


[quote]
I don't see it as a Paragon choice to force survival on others at the cost of their own freedom of choice, that sounds a whole lot more like fascism and dictatorship to me.
[/quote]

Luckily there is on such option in the game.


[quote]
The Rachni Queen...she is the last of her kind....complete Genocide is a crucial decision to make....yes, I know Destroy leads to Genocide also, but the whole Galaxies continued existance isn't relying on the life or death of the Queen....it's a whole nother level....She like many other victims deserves the benefit of the doubt, same goes for the Zhus Hope inhabitants....it's a matter of choosing the lesser of the two (or four) evils....And so the Queen and Zhus Hope inhabitants are a chance needing to be taken.
[/quote]

Choosing the Control ending is also a chance needing to be taken from a Paragon perspective. It ends the reaper thread and it keeps everyone alive. Yes, there is a chance the choice might backfire, but it's either that or genocide. And we just established that taking chances to avoid nasty atrocities like genocide is the Paragon thing to do. That doesn't all of the sudden change at the ending.


[quote]
The Genophage....I admit you have me over a barrel on that one....I am uncomfortable with both options and am still thinking about it.
[/quote]

Fair enough, but curing the genophage is the Paragon thing to do, faking the cure is the Renegade thing to do. This is how the game presents both choices.


[quote]
The Council is simply a matter of forward planning....
[/quote]

LMAO!  There is no forward planning. There is only this far you need to plan ahead:

You stop Sovereign as fast as possible with as many ships as possible, or Sovereign opens the Citadel gate, warps in all their reapers and you're doomed. DOOMED. PERIOD.


Focussing on Sovereign is the smart thing to do. It's also the Renegade thing to do. You condemn thousands of lives to prevent possible billions of casualties. Of course Paragon Shepard doesn't feel comfortable with the idea of sacrificing lives to up the chances to take down Sovereign. Paragon is about looking good and being able to look at himself in the mirror with a straight face. "We do this clean, not quick."
A Paragon is willing to risk the entire galaxy for that. That's the Paragon way.


[quote]

Due to the whole Paragon/Renegde design being an artificial construct of a fictional gaming system...it is difficult to assign a real world ethical stance on the senerios, the game assigns a black and white scorecard to your desicions (like a preset moral code) unlike the murky, uncomfortable, real world situational ethics that will never leave you with a satisfactory feeling or real answer.
[/quote]

But we're not talking about real world ethics, we're talking about Paragon v.s Renegade, the binary system BioWare created and and what it represents.

[The Heretic of Time]

Bill Casey wrote...

wiggles89 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Refuse is the only Paragon option...
Everything else is completely monstrous...

No. Allowing everyone in the galaxy to be wiped out just so that you can preserve your honour and ideals is monstrous, something that only the most craven individual would do.

We'll fight and win lose without it...
I won't let fear compromise who I am...

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 23 décembre 2012 - 03:14 .

[Bill Casey]

Bioware ****ing curbstomped Paragons...

[Steelcan]

Bill Casey wrote...

Bioware ****ing curbstomped Paragons...

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9aePqzynFfUyVTineq-8ouNG06neUAoqDVQ_QKEQR1wTcz9uW

this is sarcasm right?

[Bill Casey]

Steelcan wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Bioware ****ing curbstomped Paragons...

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9aePqzynFfUyVTineq-8ouNG06neUAoqDVQ_QKEQR1wTcz9uW

this is sarcasm right?

No it isn't...
If you choose the only paragon option, everyone dies...
**** yo idealism...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 23 décembre 2012 - 03:20 .

[Seboist]

Bill Casey wrote...

Bioware ****ing curbstomped Paragons...

That's why I love the Catalyst, he brings the juvenile power trip the Paragon kiddies have had for three full games to a screeching halt.

[Steelcan]

All series long BioWare has made blind trust and naivety the "best" option. Pragmatism, ambition, and self reliance are never rewarded, and are portrayed through Cerberus as being abhorrent.

Then the endings finally bring some balance in the game, and the paragons are completely lost, no voice in their head telling them what is "right". Decide for yourself, there is no "paragon" ending, all the endings have pros and cons.

[The Heretic of Time]

Bill Casey wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Bioware ****ing curbstomped Paragons...

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9aePqzynFfUyVTineq-8ouNG06neUAoqDVQ_QKEQR1wTcz9uW

this is sarcasm right?

No it isn't...
If you choose the only paragon option, everyone dies...
**** yo idealism...

Refuse is not the only Paragon option. Control is also pretty damn Paragon. Synthesis is also Paragon, unless you headcanon it as "omg raping the galaxy". But that's just headcanon.

It's the idea behind Synthesis that couts. And the idea behind Synthesis is as Paragon as it gets. There isn't anything in the Mass Effect trilogy than the idea behind Synthesis: everyone is equal, everyone will understand each other and everyone will be able to get along and live in harmony, while being more healthy and prosperous than ever before. There is a reason why BioWare labeled the Synthesis ending as the "perfect ending" in both the leaked stript and the actual variables in the game code.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 23 décembre 2012 - 03:28 .

[Bill Casey]

Control and Synthesis are monstrously disgusting endings...
Especially Synthesis...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 23 décembre 2012 - 03:28 .

[Seboist]

Synthesis is for sure the ideal ending as determined by BW. They address the "problem" unlike destroy and control.

[The Heretic of Time]

Bill Casey wrote...

They are monstrously disgusting endings...

WEEEEEEEHHHHHH! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! Cry some more.

[Steelcan]

Seboist wrote...

Synthesis is for sure the ideal ending as determined by BW. They address the "problem" unlike destroy and control.

There is no "problem" there is a delusional AI who needs to be shut down, nothing more

[The Heretic of Time]

Steelcan wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Synthesis is for sure the ideal ending as determined by BW. They address the "problem" unlike destroy and control.

There is no "problem" there is a delusional AI who needs to be shut down, nothing more

Says you. Maybe the AI was right after all. There is no way to know because we can't look 50.000 years into the future.


And before you say: "but I created peace between the quarians and geth!" The Catalyst clearly says the peace won't last. Maybe he's right, maybe he isn't. We simply do not know.


The real question what makes the endings actually interesting is: Do you believe the theory of the Catalyst or do you not? And if you do; what will you do about it? Do you think you can deal with it on your own? Or do you think you need some help from giant starship armada? Or do you think blurring the lines between organics and synthesics will help you?


If you don't believe the theory of the Catalyst, you can easily pick Destroy or Control and don't worry about it. There is no real reason to pick Synthesis if you don't believe the Catalyst's theory.

But if you do believe the Catalyst's theory, than I think Synthesis is the first choice to consider, with Control on the 2nd place.



I personally chose Control because I didn't believe the Catalyst, but I acknowledged the fact that he COULD be right. If the Catalyst turns out to be right, than my Shepard Catalyst can use the reapers to protect the organics against synthetics.
I didn't feel much for changing the entire galaxy in cyborgs with space magic.
Destroy is a cool ending and I chose that with my 100% Renegade Shepard.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 23 décembre 2012 - 03:42 .

[Bill Casey]

The Catalyst's theory is racist...

[The Heretic of Time]

Bill Casey wrote...

The Catalyst's theory is racist...

It's not racist if it's correct.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 23 décembre 2012 - 03:43 .

[Bill Casey]

If it's correct, then the Mass Effect universe is racist...

[The Heretic of Time]

Bill Casey wrote...

If it's correct, then the Mass Effect universe is racist...

That doesn't make any sense.

[MacroSpamMK]

I don't pick anything other than Destroy because I die.
I'm a selfish bastard. I saved the galaxy. I don't deserve to die.

[Steelcan]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Synthesis is for sure the ideal ending as determined by BW. They address the "problem" unlike destroy and control.

There is no "problem" there is a delusional AI who needs to be shut down, nothing more

Says you. Maybe the AI was right after all. There is no way to know because we can't look 50.000 years into the future.


And before you say: "but I created peace between the quarians and geth!" The Catalyst clearly says the peace won't last. Maybe he's right, maybe he isn't. We simply do not know.


The real question what makes the endings actually interesting is: Do you believe the theory of the Catalyst or do you not? And if you do; what will you do about it? Do you think you can deal with it on your own? Or do you think you need some help from giant starship armada? Or do you think blurring the lines between organics and synthesics will help you?


If you don't believe the theory of the Catalyst, you can easily pick Destroy or Control and don't worry about it. There is no real reason to pick Synthesis if you don't believe the Catalyst's theory.

But if you do believe the Catalyst's theory, than I think Synthesis is the first choice to consider, with Control on the 2nd place.

I personally chose Control because I didn't believe the Catalyst, but I acknowledged the fact that he COULD be right. If the Catalyst turns out to be right, than my Shepard Catalyst can use the reapers to protect the organics against synthetics.
I didn't feel much for changing the entire galaxy in cyborgs with space magic.
Destroy is a cool ending and I chose that with my 100% Renegade Shepard.

I never said we needed peace to prevent the problem.  We can blow any synthetics we create to hell.  I reject the notion that the created will destroy their creators.  Javik makes it clear that the Protheans were able to beat machine rebels, twice.  And the quarians would have destroyed the geth easily without Reaper intervention.

I choose Destroy because we don't need giant cuttlefish "protecting" us, we can handle ourselves.