1388 réponses à ce sujet

[SeptimusMagistos]

Massa FX wrote...

A trillion murdered souls cry out. Let us rest in peace. Destroy the Reapers. (my opinion)

Well, they've already been murdered, so they don't get a choice. I'm not killing any of my allies for something as petty as revenge.

Modifié par SeptimusMagistos, 28 décembre 2012 - 04:39 .

[Codename_Code]

The basic nature of the reapers is to control, probably because of their thorian/leviathan origin. This is their way of thinking, their natural impulse, and when somebody starts thinking about controling the reapers, is because that person is starting to think like a reaper.

Modifié par Codename_Code, 28 décembre 2012 - 05:05 .

[L2 Sentinel]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Rauhel wrote...

Because I promised Kaidan that I'd make it out alive, and Destroy is the only ending that even entertains that possibility (barely, but still).

If you're only doing it so Shepard can live, you're doing it for the wrong reasons (and metagaming, besides).

It's not metagaming. The catalyst tells you in his super long explanations that you will die if you pick control or synthesis. The first ending I actually chose was Refuse. All the options sucked. I played the ending again after I saw what happens if I chose it. I shot the kid out of spite, and saw what happened. I only reluctantly chose destroy after a thrid playthrough of the ending. Control and Synthesis just seemed terrible, and not just because Shepard dies.

Synthesis drastically and permanently alters the physiology of all life-forms in the galaxy. I wasn't comfortable making that decision. Furthermore, I had just told the brat that we didn't want to be harvested. We'd rather keep our current form. Synthesizing organic and synthetic life didn't seem like a much better alternative. It's essentially the same thing, only removing the unpleasant harvesting steps.

Choosing control seemed so out of character. The starbrat only revealed that it was possible, and did nothing to persuade me that it was a good idea. I just had a showdown with TIM. I told him we weren't ready for that kind of power. I told him we were messing with things we didn't understand. The only way to guarantee an and to the war is to destroy the reapers. Allowing them to exist is a risk I'm not willing to take. What happens if I can't maintain control? The reapers are way too dangerous. I wasn't going to become the new TIM just because the catalyst told me it was doable. After all the reapers have done, why would I want them to be my slaves? I wanted them gone.

The only thing about destroying the reapers I didn't like is I had to wipe out the geth in the process. I persuaded them to work against the reapers because I promised them not only survivability, but freedom as well, whereas the reapers only offered the former. Then I wiped them out. Anderson was shown picking this option. It was the only choice that didn't turn me into a hypocrite, although it did make me a liar.

I don't know how the other London farewell scenes go, but after the paragon Kaidan scene, I knew I was going to pissed at the ending if either of us died. Yes, making it out alive factored into it, but it was far from the only reason.

Modifié par Rauhel, 30 décembre 2012 - 08:06 .

[Hey]

Honestly, I think it's because a lot of people see the potential downside of control. I think it becomes a numbers game which I don't see in favor of control no matter how much I liked EDI - and I do.. I love that girl like she's a sister... A fake ass virtual sister..

It's a tough choice but there is too much potential **** in control..

[thefallen2far]

1. You spent the entire game trying to stop the Reapers. You don't befriend any of these behemoth monsters, you don't see it from their perception as reasonable concerned citizens and you don't in any way feel sorry for them.... they're bat crazy moronic moral acclimate-deficient robots with the power to wipe out civilizations that can be hacked and reprogrammed by a dying grunt with a bullet in their gut relying on this spineless quitter's strength of character [which suddenly vanished in the twilight hours of that character's life] to not just fade into the same bat crazy thinking of the thousands of already present minds doing the exact same thing.

2. You hear about their atrocities, They don't humanely wipe out civilization, quickly and methodically, not even needing to present themselves as anything more than a ship in the sky before they release a paralytic gas to slowly make everyone go to sleep forever....nope, they create concentration camps, infiltrate governments, corrupt AIs to make them kill everything in sight, insight wars, infect any and all advanced species, turn their comrades into living zombies bent on killing all around them, subjugating those that surrender as malformed slaves to continue the next culling and melt the civilizations while they're conscious into a liquid to make more of them. Really, I didn't have to go past "concentration camps" to say they were despicable

3. You spent the entire game fighting an entire faction of people whose sole purpose is to control the Reapers. You aren't given the option to fight with them or take their side, you can't agree with them, you can't help them, you spend every dialogue moment morally stating why it can't and shouldn't be done. You don't fight the Reapers as much as you fight these people trying to control the Reapers, so either the people designing the ending didn't take into account the rest of the game or the rest of the game didn't take into account the ending.... you pick.

[Soilborn88]

Thegnat wrote...


While I will admit my subsequent playthroughs have chosen destroy for purely meta reasons (shallow, I suppose), my initial gut reaction was destroy as well. 

Initially, there was my natural distrust that the Catalyst's explanation of the wonky handlebar apparatus would work out as he assured. I had that same practical question regarding shooting the tube but I figured shooting the tube would be best as an action because if it was all just some lie then at least I'd still be alive, ready to continue my mission.

The ethical dilemma did weigh on me though. Control seemed like it only killed Shep's body, the EC wasn't around so I assumed I'd just use the Reapers for good. In the end, though, I did not choose Control simply because I felt leaving the Reapers around in any form was too much of a risk for me to consider. I chose to destroy them.

Sure, the ethical problems of destroying the Geth and EDI as collateral after all they had achieved was weighing on my mind; however, I always figured in the end Shepard was going to have to make a very difficult decision in which he may have to sacrifice his own moral and ethical guidelines in order to save life itself.

Certainly, future scholars, politicians and ethicists would debate the moral justification of my actions. In the end, I chose the ending that destroyed the reapers and gave future generations the ability to hammer out all the fine details like "what is life?"

I know others won't see eye to eye with my decision and that's fine. In such a desperate situation, I doubt I would myself put ethics before survival.  Maybe I'm being dumb.

I totally agree. Destruction is the only way to prevent a mega-machine race from coming in and destroying all galactic civilization once they reached their apex.

Synthesis would destroy what the meaning of being a human, a turian, a krogan, or simply an "organic".

Control would have no telling what sort of unintended consquences down the road, maybe Shep starts intervening in galactic matters, maybe someone hacks his AI and forces the Shepalyst to do their own will with the repeaers..

I mean the variables are just too significant not to destroy the Reapers. Sure the destruction of the Geth will weigh on your mind, and normally I'm not the one to believe in such sacrifices to achieve the greater good but Destruction of the Reapers is the only solution I see.

Furthermore.. The Catalyst and the Reapers are responsible for the destructions for trillions of organic lives in each cycle.. No telling how many cycles took place either.. The past civilizations deserve justice and vengeance.

[GabrielsLaw]

Because when Shepard goes crazy none of us want to see our Shepard as the next Starbrat. Could you picture that, do it, just take a second. I'll wait.......................... OMG you see how terrible that is
Destory is the only option in my opinion.

[stephen_dedalus]

One factor that doesn't seem to have received sufficient consideration is whether the Reapers retain their individuality after the Shepard AI replaces the Catalyst. I know that many players feel that ME3 renders nugatory the possibility that the Reapers were ever the sovereign states that they claimed to be for most of the trilogy, but assuming for the sake of argument that it's possible to reconcile the influence of the Catalyst with the Reapers' possession of individual personalities, does anyone detect the suggestion in the EC Control ending that the Shepard AI may impose itself upon the Reapers so fully that their own identities are attenuated or even eliminated? There's no direct evidence, and so this cannot be considered a strong or a definitive interpretation, but two features of the EC Control epilogue justify and encourage speculation in this regard.

First: the Shepard AI's voiceover narration exclusively employs the pronoun "I," as in "I will rebuild what the many have lost," and "I will create a future of limitless possibility." Contrast this with the original Catalyst's occasional lapses into the first-person plural, as in "it is now in your power to destroy us," which suggests a conflation of identities that seems absent from EC Control.

Second: Harbinger's "eyes" appear blue in the Citadel slide in the EC Control epilogue, despite the fact that they appeared yellow during the reign of the original Catalyst, who, like the Shepard AI, is represented as bluish light.

There is, then, both verbal and visual textual evidence suggestive of the possibility that the Shepard AI may have overwritten much or all of each individual Reaper's personality. The implications of this are intriguing. Would Control become a more attractive option if, say, all of the knowledge and processing power of each Reaper could be maintained without also permitting the continued existence of an identity that took perverse pleasure in the harvest? This would make Control something akin to a Destroy+. Reaper bodies may be preserved and exploited by the Shepard AI, but the condescending and sadistic selves that inhabited those bodies may be dispensed with. This would grant all of the satisfaction of punishment justly meted out that is currently present in Destroy, without the collateral damage that makes Destroy so distasteful.

Modifié par stephen_dedalus, 30 décembre 2012 - 08:32 .

[Fatiguesdualism]

OP: If one accepts the dreams as being a symptom of PTSD or other indication that Shepard's mental health is 'questionable' does that factor into whether Control is the 'best' solution?

Important note: Mental health issues are not a frivolous matter, please accept my apologies if any of the following rant upsets you. It is not my intention to make fun of those suffering from a mental health issue or discriminate against them.

[Rant for comedic effect follows!]
Call me nuts but I would prefer that the future overlord of life, the galaxy and a lot of other stuff be on a bit more stable psyche.
Or perhaps when the [glowkid] makes a copy he just doesn't copy that bit? No wait hold on that could raise an issue. Maybe becoming part of the AI that has a proven history of genocide/extinction causing will cure Shep? Sure the memories of all those cullings, water off a duck's back right? Got it, the reason for the nightmares can alter the Shepard personality so she/he doesn't have an issue. Just as long as that is the only alteration it makes, and no other pesky bits like that 'culling is bad, save the puny ones' idea. I mean it is the architect of the unchanging solution, the solution that must always occur because it is the best solution that could be devised over billions of years and with the sum of knowledge of all those culled. Just because the AI accidently activated the elevator when it really wanted to close the blinds, and landed 'the first organic to make it here' in his kitchen is a good enough reason to end the best idea it's had for a few billion years, right?
The only other alternative is to let this ape, who's a couple of plums short of being a fruit basket, become the most known powerful thing in the galaxy. Because a crazy AI entity holding the power of life and death over them all, who would find that objectionable?
[End of Rant]

Seriously though I am interested to see how/if Shepard's portrayed mental state factored into people's choices (pre EC at least).

[The_XBL_Nihilus]

I want my Shepard to return to my LI, that's why.

[o Ventus]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

A trillion murdered souls cry out. Let us rest in peace. Destroy the Reapers. (my opinion)

Well, they've already been murdered, so they don't get a choice. I'm not killing any of my allies for something as petty as revenge.

Funny. I didn't think anyone was.

I see the Reapers as weapons. Tools of war, on top of being slushies filled with biomatter and slag. Their very existence is an abomination. I'm not sacrificing the geth because the Reapers beat some of my friends up, I'm doing it because I legitimately see it as the best course of action. 

Knowing how powerful the Reapers are, I couldn't trust myself (see: my Shepard) in control of them, nor could I necessarily trust the Catalyst after Synthesis, knowing its less than stellar track record.

[Ghaleon]

Out of all the endings this one even though it goes against quite a bit of what Shepard fought against, it fit my paragon shepard the most.

Destroy genocide many synthetics and possibly some organic with synthetic parts, imagine quarians with geth uploaded into suit may of suffered also.

Synthesis, genetically rape the entire galaxy and have reaper creations running around.


how i viewed it anyway

[Eterna]

Ghaleon80 wrote...


Synthesis, genetically rape the entire galaxy and have reaper creations running around.

Do you think I'd be able to abort my synthesis rape baby or would the pro life zealots in the states force me to birth the little monster?

Modifié par Eterna5, 31 décembre 2012 - 07:49 .

[Ghaleon]

Eterna5 wrote...

Ghaleon80 wrote...


Synthesis, genetically rape the entire galaxy and have reaper creations running around.

Do you think I'd be able to abort my synthesis rape baby or would the pro life zealots in the states force me to birth the little monster?

Not sure you are a Batarian, and i have no idea what the Hegemonys laws are on such things.

BTW by reaper creations i meant husks banshees etc.

Modifié par Ghaleon80, 31 décembre 2012 - 07:53 .