20 réponses à ce sujet

[Swagger7]

I was playing a little DA2 earlier and I got an idea while talking to Viscount Dumas.  What if the Friendship/Rivalry bar (or whatever its DA3 equivalent winds up being) applied to people who weren't in your party as well?  It wouldn't apply to most NPCs, just the major quest giver types (like Dumas, Meredith and Orsino) and perhaps some givers of minor sidequests (like Meeran or Athenril). 

Angering a major quest giver would occur from either aiding their foe, being a jerk or disagreeing with them.  The consequences could consist of reduced payouts from an annoyed quest giver, and greater rewards plus special perks from a quest giver who likes you.  With the sidequest givers, making them angry enough could cut off their supply of quests entirely, or lead to a special quest where you have to regain their favor in order to get jobs from them in the future.

What do my fellow forumites think?

Modifié par Swagger7, 19 décembre 2012 - 10:05 .

[AppealToReason]

I don't like the idea of having to be nice to people for quests. I like to play an **** but I find myself too often having to be Mr. Niceguy just so I can undertake quests for Xp and loots. Sucked when I'd be all "Hey Fenris you suck!" only to soon follow it with "Sure best buddy I'll help you with a quest for Xp and loots" (+15 friendship) >_<

[Arppis]

AppealToReason wrote...

I don't like the idea of having to be nice to people for quests. I like to play an **** but I find myself too often having to be Mr. Niceguy just so I can undertake quests for Xp and loots. Sucked when I'd be all "Hey Fenris you suck!" only to soon follow it with "Sure best buddy I'll help you with a quest for Xp and loots" (+15 friendship) >_<

I can't resist quests either.

[Saibh]

AppealToReason wrote...

I don't like the idea of having to be nice to people for quests. I like to play an **** but I find myself too often having to be Mr. Niceguy just so I can undertake quests for Xp and loots. Sucked when I'd be all "Hey Fenris you suck!" only to soon follow it with "Sure best buddy I'll help you with a quest for Xp and loots" (+15 friendship) >_<

But realistically, you wouldn't get what you wanted by being a dick. This is being reflected back by their reactions. The world shouldn't exist as your plaything to manipulate. 

As for a friendship/rivalry bar? It would require either leaps and bounds of friendship/rivalry boosts instead of small increments, or they would need a lot of dialogue. Sort of impractical. Not to mention it would mean there would have to be three different conversations (friendly, neutral, rival) for regular characters. It also means players would presumably want to be able to influence these non-companions in bigger way than they would otherwise, which is unlikely. 

[atum]

What they should do is make it so you can refuse to help someone and go on the quest and steal all the gold anyways.

As described a bit above, there was a major problem with the way friendship/rivalry worked in DA2. In addition to the Fenris example above, 90% of quests I accepted would cause Isabella to disapprove because I was helping some poor sod.

So giving viable options for being "renegade" is what I would rather see than a bar or meter or anything like that.

Modifié par atum, 19 décembre 2012 - 12:41 .

[Tootles FTW]

I'm getting flashbacks to the Fable franchise, where I can fart in all of the villager's faces and suddenly dozens of NPCs with heart icons floating above their heads would be following me around the area.

Assuming that no flatulence would be involved in DA, I think certain plot-critical NPCs could be implemented into this system. Meredith & Orsino from DA2 spring to mind. It sucked that one or the other shut you out of all conversations if you chose mages/templars over templars/mages. I mean, WHY would I have incentive to change my opinion if the other side doesn't let me see where they're coming from?

[Wulfram]

I don't think you interact with non-companion NPCs enough for it to really make much sense.

Tracking the players responses, yes. But there are probably only 1 or 2 choices with an NPC that really matter, so just check those responses and give appropriate dialogue.

[Gazardiel]

Tootles FTW wrote...

I'm getting flashbacks to the Fable franchise, where I can fart in all of the villager's faces and suddenly dozens of NPCs with heart icons floating above their heads would be following me around the area.
 

Fable came to my mind too (great example).  I think that trying to apply the F/R would be a bit more than needed, but I would like the idea that recurring NPCs would respond better to certain types of statements.  For example, with Qunari I would usually go with the Aggressive responses even though I preferred Sarcastic/Witty Hawke because it seemed to fit more with their culture.  Likewise, someone who's grieving probably wouldn't like to hear a joke about boneless women flopping around and would be less inclined to reward you in later quests. 

Maybe if you engage with these NPCs in a more compatible way, a couple more small quest opportunities open up (like an extra bit in the quest chain) or you get an extra bonus (in money or XP or a trinket).  Nothing game-breaking, but a reward for considering the style of the NPCs.

[Di-Hydrogen-Monoxide]

To make this idea they would have to ensure that by refusing or irritating one quest giver, his rival would then off you a similar quest.

Otherwise people would complain that they were stopped from playing the game as they wanted to play it.

[Monica21]

Angering a quest giver is almost always reflected in dialogue though, isn't it? I'm thinking of the city magistrate who sends you off to rescue his son. Kill his son and he gets mad and walks away (although with no other consequences) and, I honestly can't remember what happens if you let his son live because it's been too long since I've done that.

Your interactions with the Viscount are because someone else has asked him for you, not necessarily because he thinks you're the best person for the job. He seems to continue to believe that you're acting in a manner above your station. So, I don't know how a friendship/rivalry bar would change any of that. Yeah, he might like you more, but that won't change whether the Qunari asked him for you specifically to help in a quest.

Modifié par Monica21, 19 décembre 2012 - 05:25 .

[hexaligned]

This is essentially a reputation system/meter. There aren't enough interactions with individual NPC's, it makes more sense (mechanically), to lump them and all of your interactions with them together.

I could see it working for specific NPC's that we are constantly in contact with, but who may not be party companions. For example, if we do end up getting a keep to manage in DA3, your senechal or captain of your guard, or something. Just for random quest givers I don't think it would work well.

Modifié par relhart, 19 décembre 2012 - 05:29 .

[HTTP 404]

they should get rid of the bar and instead make whatever your decisions you make affect your companions whether you realize it or not.   You should be able to gauge how you stand through conversation with npcs. 

kinda like real life.....how easy would it be if we all had meters for everyone in real life.

Modifié par HTTP 404, 20 décembre 2012 - 02:17 .

[Swagger7]

HTTP 404 wrote...

they should get rid of the bar and instead make whatever your decisions you make affect your companions whether you realize it or not.   You should be able to gauge how you stand through conversation with npcs. 

kinda like real life.....how easy would it be if we all had meters for everyone in real life.

Yeah, but IRL you talk to people a lot more and it's easier to guage these things.  Think of the bar as a representation of your conversational experience I guess.

[HTTP 404]

Swagger7 wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

they should get rid of the bar and instead make whatever your decisions you make affect your companions whether you realize it or not.   You should be able to gauge how you stand through conversation with npcs. 

kinda like real life.....how easy would it be if we all had meters for everyone in real life.

Yeah, but IRL you talk to people a lot more and it's easier to guage these things.  Think of the bar as a representation of your conversational experience I guess.

I would argue that we should be able to talk to our companions about what they think about certain issues and their opinion of the other companions.  After every main quest completed, their views will be updated.  As for NPCs, we wouldn't know until it comes up again just like IRL.  That also gives the writers opportunities to look at twists in story and keep it less predictable if we don't know where the characters we hardly know stand.

Modifié par HTTP 404, 21 décembre 2012 - 02:23 .

[Swagger7]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Swagger7 wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

they should get rid of the bar and instead make whatever your decisions you make affect your companions whether you realize it or not.   You should be able to gauge how you stand through conversation with npcs. 

kinda like real life.....how easy would it be if we all had meters for everyone in real life.

Yeah, but IRL you talk to people a lot more and it's easier to guage these things.  Think of the bar as a representation of your conversational experience I guess.

I would argue that we should be able to talk to our companions about what they think about certain issues and their opinion of the other companions.  After every main quest completed, their views will be updated.  As for NPCs, we wouldn't know until it comes up again just like IRL.  That also gives the writers opportunities to look at twists in story and keep it less predictable if we don't know where the characters we hardly know stand.

That would be ideal, I agree.  However, it would require a lot more writing and dialogue recording, which might not be an option.

[HTTP 404]

Swagger7 wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

Swagger7 wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

they should get rid of the bar and instead make whatever your decisions you make affect your companions whether you realize it or not.   You should be able to gauge how you stand through conversation with npcs. 

kinda like real life.....how easy would it be if we all had meters for everyone in real life.

Yeah, but IRL you talk to people a lot more and it's easier to guage these things.  Think of the bar as a representation of your conversational experience I guess.

I would argue that we should be able to talk to our companions about what they think about certain issues and their opinion of the other companions.  After every main quest completed, their views will be updated.  As for NPCs, we wouldn't know until it comes up again just like IRL.  That also gives the writers opportunities to look at twists in story and keep it less predictable if we don't know where the characters we hardly know stand.

That would be ideal, I agree.  However, it would require a lot more writing and dialogue recording, which might not be an option.

You could be right.  but it is possible to do.  Also more writing and more dialogue isn't a bad thing

[Fortlowe]

I don't know about a friendship/ rivalry system for NPC's but a reputation system is something I have advocated. Shaping a character in DA2 that is possessed of a personality of my own making was brilliant. Perhaps not as deftly done as we might have liked, but done well yet in still. In DA:I I'd see that mechanism refined (tone toggle!) and made more ambitious to include reactivity from NPC's based on how my character behaves.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

Agreed.


Also, a way to incur favor with NPCs besides Companions which would lead to romances outside of just your companions/henchmen would be cool.

Dating people you work with (or worse, who work FOR you - see Yeoman Chambers and Samantha Traynor) is categorically a dicey move, with risk and chance for fallout. The fact that we can hook up with multiple people in our "group" and have very little to no disastrous outcomes from it is nothing short of a miracle. I'd like the opportunity to get my cinematic virtual nookie from someone who isn't wielding a deadly weapon next to me 99% of the game, thank you.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 21 décembre 2012 - 05:56 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Maybe a factional reputation system would be a fun way to go with it. And have it opening/closing quest lines. For example, if you get a reputation as a criminal, you might not get some guard quests, but it would open up some Underworld ones instead. So you'll have the same amount of content either way, but not the same exact content.

[Ageless Face]

Oh hell no. I'm sick enough from the companions and their bars; I'm so busy making everyone happy that I can't even give my Hawke a personality until late in the game. no way I'd support to expand it further.

If I want a present from a NPC, I'd like it to be the good old fasioned way, because I found his nugs, or his relative's corpse, or whatever.