279 réponses à ce sujet

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Topographer wrote...

Whoa whoa, Talon GI is freaking amazing. A fully amped up PPR might be just as good but it's not fully amped up all the time. Sorta like Sirian said, it feels like a 7-shot wraith on a GI, except it fires faster.

You can do even better.

GI w/ PPR+Talon. Fire PPR, switch to Talon just before overheating, shoot Talon while PPR reloads itself.

[wes60620]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

wes60620 wrote...

born2beagator wrote...

CYB3RFR34K wrote...

please remove the charge time. now i hate the acolyte just like i hated it before...

keep the hate flowing.  maybe if enough people keep their nonsensical whining up, it will acutally get a damage buff:O

Just like all the "nonsensical whining" that was done to get the charge restored...... hypocrites:D.

 

It wasn't nonsensical whining. It was pointing out the fact that changing how a weapon functioned to stop missile glitchers would be all well and good if missile glitching actually stopped when the Acolyte was changed. It was NOT.

Based on that assumption then the charge should be restored to the rocket launcher. That excuse is old and out the door.   When the chargeless Acolyte was produced, it was discovered to be well a rounded weapon in a clinch. Without a heavy weight penalty for softer characters & casters. Very popular just like the Harriar.  

Mostly Vanguards & harder charater players complained about the previous Acolyte.

[FlowCytometry]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Topographer wrote...

Whoa whoa, Talon GI is freaking amazing. A fully amped up PPR might be just as good but it's not fully amped up all the time. Sorta like Sirian said, it feels like a 7-shot wraith on a GI, except it fires faster.

You can do even better.

GI w/ PPR+Talon. Fire PPR, switch to Talon just before overheating, shoot Talon while PPR reloads itself.

I'm surprised I dun see many people using the PPR and doing this trick. Maybe its cause the weapon swap anim is annoying, but on a heavy weapons toon its quite nice to be able to keep firing and not have to wait on the PPR's refill.

0.o well this topic is veering off track quite a bit now. Better than reading more hyperbole from both sides of the acolyte change, though .. which is getting quite tiring :/

[CYB3RFR34K]

there should be 2 firing mode on the acolyte, charge and chargeless~

Modifié par CYB3RFR34K, 20 décembre 2012 - 08:25 .

[Hausner85]

This 

Ryan Torant wrote...

Edit: Excuse me for the following ****storm, it was the heat of the moment and stuff. I didnt know taht they had asked peope whether to keep the acolyte as it is, or change it. So please excuse that. I reamain with my opinion that it kinda sukcs now, but I see a lot of peope dont think the same. 

I think the title explains it. WHY THE F**K BIOWARE!!. Hated the Acolyte when it had the charge ****, then they change it, and it was really good for adepts, now they change it again, AND THAT SUCKS!
Come on, is the only gun in the game that dosent fire when you pull the trigger. It gets you kill the charge time!
So yes, really really angry about that! Congratulations Bioware, you managed to f**k up one of the best guns!! Nerfs for everyone!!!!!

and this 

Dilandau3000 wrote...

It's a gun that's insanely powerful against shields, staggers nearly everything, is pretty damn accurate at long range once you get used to how the projectiles fly, makes an utter joke of phantoms, can be used to hit enemies in cover or around corners, does AoE damage so can keep entirely spawns at bay, and can also deliver ammo powers in that AoE.

It has to have some drawback. That used to be charge. Without the charge, it overshadows every other heavy pistol in the game. So they already began to nerf its damage to keep it at bay. Much better to revert to the charging and get our damage back than to keep nerfing it until it's truly useless.

I'm glad they did this. I loved the Acolyte before the charge was removed, so I'll still love it now that the charge is back.

 
It's time for some people to understand that this game and gold challenge should be a CHALLENGE... And if there are weapons that make it to easy is destroying the game... If you play just to unlock everything then i'm sorry for you. Also what is the point of heaving 40+ different weapons if your going to use just 3 or 4???

[Nylon Angel]

Keep the Acolyte as is, introduce a new weapon called the "Peacemaker" that acts like the chargless Acolyte, everyone wins.

[CYB3RFR34K]

Nylon Angel wrote...

Keep the Acolyte as is, introduce a new weapon called the "Peacemaker" that acts like the chargless Acolyte, everyone wins.

good idea.

[Ryan Torant]

http://social.biowar...62/polls/42440/ check this please and lets end this debate shall we?

[CYB3RFR34K]

Ryan Torant wrote...

http://social.biowar...62/polls/42440/ check this please and lets end this debate shall we?

just voted ^^

[quebra]

Nylon Angel wrote...

Keep the Acolyte as is, introduce a new weapon called the "Peacemaker" that acts like the chargless Acolyte, everyone wins.

+2 vorpal post of slaying!

[Ashen One]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

If it's not a case of them being harder to use properly on xbox (no matter what you say xbox players CANNOT kill as fast as PC players, the horrible controls make sure of that), then the fact that you think of them as "caster weapons" is rather odd. Makes me think you haven't bothered to try them.

I have tried them and find them vastly inferior to the Particle Rifle for reasons I've already posted in over 9000 different threads in the past. Spoiler alert: It's not even close to being an issue of me not knowing how to use the Hurricane or Talon.

Lord_Sirian wrote...

I kill just as quickly with a Talon/Hurricane as I do with a PPR. If not more quickly.

I'd like to see a clip of you killing a Posessed Praetorian on Gold/Plat faster with a Talon than with a Particle Rifle running Incendiary ammo IV, rail amp III, AR amp V

[Ryan Torant]

quebra wrote...

Nylon Angel wrote...

Keep the Acolyte as is, introduce a new weapon called the "Peacemaker" that acts like the chargless Acolyte, everyone wins.

+2 vorpal post of slaying!

Love this! The Peacemaker lol

Modifié par Ryan Torant, 20 décembre 2012 - 08:44 .

[Tybo]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

If it's not a case of them being harder to use properly on xbox (no matter what you say xbox players CANNOT kill as fast as PC players, the horrible controls make sure of that), then the fact that you think of them as "caster weapons" is rather odd. Makes me think you haven't bothered to try them.

I have tried them and find them vastly inferior to the Particle Rifle for reasons I've already posted in over 9000 different threads in the past. Spoiler alert: It's not even close to being an issue of me not knowing how to use the Hurricane or Talon.

Lord_Sirian wrote...

I kill just as quickly with a Talon/Hurricane as I do with a PPR. If not more quickly.

I'd like to see a clip of you killing a Posessed Praetorian on Gold/Plat faster with a Talon than with a Particle Rifle running Incendiary ammo IV, rail amp III, AR amp V

No s*** Sherlock.  The PPR kills the tankiest unit in the game faster than a Talon?  Who'd a thunk it...

You know what the talon does do?  One shot every mook in the game.  It is a far superior mook slayer to the PPR.

And the Hurricane can probably kill said Possessed Praetorian nearly as fast, while also being a superior mook slayer due to no charge up time and much quicker reloading.

[Ashen One]

tyhw wrote...

No s*** Sherlock.  The PPR kills the tankiest unit in the game faster than a Talon?  Who'd a thunk it...

Obviously not Sirian, given his vague reply "I kill just as fast with a talon as I do with a PPR".

Either he forgot to specify low tier enemies that aren't really a significant threat anyhow, or he's just garbage with the Particle Rifle.

tyhw wrote...

You know what the talon does do?  One shot every mook in the game.  It is a far superior mook slayer to the PPR.

Tell me exactly what is required to OSK for example a Geth Hunter on Platinum. (headshot from TC? What equipment are you using? How many pellets have to land on the head? Are you factoring in the damage from PM, or no?) We both know the Talon has ****** poor accuracy outside of hard cover, and a hipfire accuracy penalty. How practical is it to PM a spawn from halfway across the map, and then start firing from a distance? Are you realistically going to OSK anything unless you're running a scope mod?

tyhw wrote...

And the Hurricane can probably kill said Possessed Praetorian nearly as fast *snip*

I sincerely hope this is a just a bad joke.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 20 décembre 2012 - 09:28 .

[Pyroninja42]

Did anyone else pronounce "chargeles" as "charge-uls" in their head before they realize what the OP was trying to say?

[STRANGE10VE]

Evolve or die.

[Tybo]

Avoiding quote pyramids.

@Ashen:

I was talking about Gold. I was under the impression you were not a Platinum fan. Anyway, I'm not. For a gold hunter, only half need to be headshots. No prox mine needed. The Talon can even theoretically one clip all non-praetorian bosses with the prox mine debuff. I've only personally done it to Atlases though.

The Hurricane can easily one clip every non praetorian boss in the game, giving it faster kill times than the PPR.

[Krazy_Kirby]

Eriseley wrote...

Because coop doesn't automatically mean Borderlands lollerskates i mash hed on keybord we win herp, some people still want the game to present some challenge.

Then don't play with people who use it. Make private matches. If you really want a challenge then use only a predator.

[TheBMT]

As someone who never bothered with it when it was a Charged weapon. Only using it recently as a chargeless weapon. I could care less about it now, for the fact that it is charged. I doubt Ill use it again. If there was a better way of showing when its charged. Either visually or have my controller shake. But I really can't tell when its charged. Like the Grall and Geth Plasma shotgun both are pretty noticeable when being charged. Do that and I would be ok with using it again.

[Eriseley]

Krazy_Kirby wrote...

Then don't play with people who use it. Make private matches. If you really want a challenge then use only a predator.

From up in thread.

Eriseley wrote...

This has been recycled a million times. I remind you that you yourself
mentioned it's coop with team-based challenges, you suggest ditching
people and teams to avoid specific combos, I suggest playing Borderlands
for press any key to get loot. Ultimately BioWare seems to want a game,
yes a coop game, wherein the team based challenges aren't rendered moot
by items, classes and team mates. I like that design, it holds my
interest and Borderlands does not. You maybe don't, that's fine.

Worth noting, I think Borderlands is a fun game, just doesn't hold my interest much. Intentionally avoiding content and players does not make for an enduring experience btw. My point is both are valid game designs and different people like different things. People ask over and over "why nerf in coop?" and then they ignore the answer because they don't agree, but by its nature it's something people won't agree on.

[TheThirdRace]

(taken from my own thread on the Acolyte)
Why not make the Acolyte behave exactly like the Graal? The Graal allows to shoot without charging for base damage, but if you charge it, the damage is "proportional" to the charge time (proven by peddroelmz, corlist or some other renowned guy on these forums, sorry I don't remember which one). So if you charge it for 66% of its max charge time, you get 66% of the max damage. It's not totally "proportional", it works more like steps, but the basics are sound.

Here are the stats of the current Acolyte:

Damage charged = 491
ROF = 60
Clip size = 3
Total ammo = 24
Charge time = 1 second
Charge applies stagger = Yes

And here are the stats I would suggest:

Damage uncharged = 196.4
Damage charged = 491
ROF = 60
Clip size = 6
Total ammo = 36
Charge time = 1 second
Charge applies stagger = Yes
Charge ammo use = 2

There are a couple things to note from my suggestion:

1) The uncharged damage is 2/5 of the current damage

2) The ROF for an uncharged shot is 50% higher than the chargeless Acolyte, meaning that the delay before the reload will be faster

3) The DPS of an uncharged shot is 196.4 damage. For comparison, the chargeless Acolyte had a DPS of 294 damage

4) The damage adds 1/5 damage for every 0.333 seconds of charges up to the full 5/5 (491 damage)

5) A partial or full charged shot 2 bullets, the clip size has been doubled to keep the same effectiveness

6) The total ammo is 50% higher to compensate for the lesser damage of uncharged shot while it also nerf a bit the benefits of partial or full charged shots

7) Stagger doesn't apply for uncharged shots. I'm not sure the stagger is related to force or not, but if that's the case, then the stagger could apply, but at the same proportion as the damage (uncharged shots would be 2/5 the force of a fully charged shot)

This suggestion offers a good compromise for both type of players.

Those that want a chargeless Acolyte will have what they want with a better ROF and delay before reload at the cost of lower damage. The lower damage should keep it in check compared to what it was when the Acolyte was completely chargeless.

Those that want a charging Acolyte will have what they want with the benefit of having a more reliable gun where releasing the trigger before the full charge will still give you sizable damage instead of leaving you dead in the water. They will also benefit from being able to shoot "fast" by not charging when necessary. All that comes at the cost of a lower total ammo count (relatively speaking).

[Najarati]

TheThirdRace wrote...
....This suggestion offers a good compromise for both type of players.

Those that want a chargeless Acolyte will have what they want with a better ROF and delay before reload at the cost of lower damage. The lower damage should keep it in check compared to what it was when the Acolyte was completely chargeless.

Those that want a charging Acolyte will have what they want with the benefit of having a more reliable gun where releasing the trigger before the full charge will still give you sizable damage instead of leaving you dead in the water. They will also benefit from being able to shoot "fast" by not charging when necessary. All that comes at the cost of a lower total ammo count (relatively speaking).

Your idea is similar to what I had suggested earlier (make the Acolyte function more like the Arc Pistol), but with finer control.  In the end, I think trying to accommodate both sides is the best way to tackle this issue.  If Bioware can make that happen I'd certainly be grateful.

[hostaman]

For F**** sake, just stop tw****g about with the weapons and leave them alone!!!!

The Acolyte went from meh to hero to meh again. Just stop messing.

[Schachmatt123]

hostaman wrote...

The Acolyte went from meh great to hero noob cannon to meh great again. Just stop messing.

fixed