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[lyleoffmyspace]

I've been following Dragon Age since the beginning, and it's been sad to see the game go from inspired to Baldur's Gate, to a Mass Effect insoired game in DA2. DA3 seems like it will be Skyrim inspired.

Seeing as Project Eternity seems like it will be going for the old school, inspired by BG route, how do you think the two games will compare? DA3 will obviosuly higher production values but will this end up creating a better game?

[Allan Schumacher]

I think they are games that look to deliver different things, and hope that both are highly successful and greatly enjoyed by the people that pick them up.

[Allan Schumacher]

I agree, and I really hope that Obsidian does not listen one iota to their forum members. The thing is, you were given a vision of a retro-style 2D isometric game in the vein of Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment. If people want and expect the game to be more like Dragon Age (in regards to romances, companion interactions and so on), they deserve to get burned. They knew what they were pledging for.

The thing to note is that there isn't a consensus on what makes an "infinity engine game" an "infinity engine game." There were plenty of squabbles between people that considered themselves the representative of what it means to be an IE game that had polar opposites of what the game should deliver.

This is in large part because the games that were made on the Infinity Engine often had different goals in mind for what they wanted to accomplish. PST delivers a very different experience than IWD.

I actually hope that major publishers don't take notice of it. I recall
that Obsidian has said that they are hoping for this to be a new way to
fund niche games that are hard to pitch. Getting major publishers
involved would only screw things up.

Eh, publishers taking notice won't have them doing kickstarters, but will rather go "Oh hey, that game mechanic in PE is solid and the game sold 400 billion units.  Maybe we should try some of what they have done!"


Although at this point it may be best to just shift this discussion to the thread in the Off topic forum as its starting to slide from DA3 relevance.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 19 décembre 2012 - 09:35 .

[Allan Schumacher]

argan1985 wrote...

True, but if I don't misremember Obsidian specifically mentioned Planescape: Torment as a major inflouence on P:E.

All three IE franchises are frequently mentioned.

From their KS page:

Obsidian Entertainment and our legendary game designers Chris Avellone,
Tim Cain, and Josh Sawyer are excited to bring you a new role-playing
game for the PC. Project Eternity (working title) pays homage to the great Infinity Engine games of years past: Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment.

Project Eternity
will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense
combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale,
and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic
exploration of Planescape: Torment.

But some are decrying the magic system as being unfaithful (which is technically true) and other things that they consider lines in the sand that have been crossed.

For me, I want them to make the game they want to make, since I tend to enjoy the games they make.

[Allan Schumacher]

Right, but all of those games are very different from what many people on the Obsidian forums feel should be in the game (in regards to the "make it more like Bioware games" comment earlier somewhere in this thread).

Eh, many people also stating that Vancian magic is a requirement, adding cooldowns to magic is an atrocity, the focus of the game should be a combat simulator, or that combat isn't as important as the characters or story, while some feel exploration should come back en force.

Lots of discussions had happened, but things have quieted down now.

[David Gaider]

Savber100 wrote...

Why can't we just say that the next few years will be good for RPGs and just leave it at that?

Are you guys really going to lose some sleep over which game will be better?

Some people are really concerned about RPG's needing to maintain a certain amount of "purity" and thus all occupy the same space. Personally, I'm happy that Obsidian is doing such a game. It's not really competition for DA3, as the two games aim for very different things, and I wish Obsidian all sorts of success and then some. It'd be nice to definitively prove that IE-style games are still viable.

[Allan Schumacher]

isn't it competition for you when it comes to casual gamers?

Well, it's competition in the sense that all games are technically competition.

For myself, at least, I'm also a gamer. So ultimately I want more awesome games. And even if we lose some customers to Project Eternity (I'm sure we will, in the world of finite resources), it doesn't mean that we don't also have somewhat of a symbiotic relationship because we're of the same genre.

There will be lots of people that still play both simply because it's "more RPGs!" Heck, even yourself, you might not pick up Dragon Age 3 right off the bat for your own reasons, it doesn't mean you won't ever pick up DA3. Same goes for Project Eternity stuff.

I also greatly prefer being highly regarded because people prefer our product over others, rather than liking our product because there's nothing else out there. I think it's better for the genre as well.

Depending on how you classify "casual" gamer as well, there will also be advantages/disadvantages based on the level of exposure and so forth.

Vancian magic might be a requirement for a 2E D&D system (which Baldur's Gae, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment are all set in) but I hardly think that it's a requirement for all IE games. If I recall correctly, the first two Fallout games are also IE games, and they used a modified GURPS system and had no magic at all!

I agree. As a concept I actually dislike the Vancian magic system a lot. I understood it and understood what it delivered in the context of AD&D rules so I could work with it, but it is hardly a requirement for me. But there were some people on the Obsidian forums that were quite adamant that it was a requirement to satisfy the promises of the Kickstarter campaign.

Fallout was not made on the Infinity Engine, however (It was its own internal engine).

[Allan Schumacher]

Sawyer is a rules/mechanics guru. I have a high degree of confidence the combat will be good. Probably better then the IE games actually. (I never played BioWare games for the combat)

[David Gaider]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
You're making a bad assumption here. The two teams would not both receive the same budget. The team who builds the cinematic game would get a bigger budget because it needs a bigger budget. The team who builds the text+static portrait game would get a significantly smaller budget, because it doesn't need the budget to pay for things like animators, voice actors, and cinematic designers. It's like the decision to add multiplayer. Developers are budgeted what they scope for. They don't scope for what they are budgeted, unless it is a situation like kickstarter where you literally do not *know* what you will be budgeted until the fundraising part is finished.

I think the more important part of budgeting for a game is determining what you expect to sell. A game can get by just fine with unit sales of 1 million or even less, if it has the budget to make that volume of sales profitable. The enjoyment of the individual fan does not relate to the budget... expensive content might be considered irrelevant flash to one and absolutely necessary by another, and thus it's pretty pointless to get into a discussion of what any game developer's budget should be.

Whether Project Eternity has the potential to sell more units than DA3 is really a matter of speculation... and, frankly, it doesn't belong here. Since the discussion is turning to insults, I'm shutting it down. Project Eternity discussion can be taken to Off Topic or-- more relevantly-- to their forums.

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 décembre 2012 - 09:46 .