168 réponses à ce sujet

[ObserverStatus]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I think that Project Eternity will appeal to people who say things like "it's for people who actually like RPGs."

So it will appeal to to people who already think that they're going to like it? How intuitive.

[upsettingshorts]

bobobo878 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I think that Project Eternity will appeal to people who say things like "it's for people who actually like RPGs."

So it will appeal to to people who already think that they're going to like it? How intuitive.

Not quite what I was implying, but sure, whatever.

[ObserverStatus]

I was thinking that you meant more than that, but your statement did sound rather circular.

[MerinTB]

I think I pledged to Project Eternity more than I'll have paid for DA:O, DA2 and DA:I.

Will it be that much greater enjoyment? No.

But it will be more enjoyment than DA2, for certain. I would have to guess that DA:O will, on balance, be a better game for me than Project Eternity.

I'm purposefully NOT following anything about DA:I. I have no idea what enjoyment I'll get from DA:I. I do know that I won't be pre-ordering it, the first for any BioWare PC / XBOX 360 game since BG2. Given the direction BioWare took with DA2, and even considering the "course corrections" they may be taking with DA:I, I don't expect DA:I to be a favorite of mine. I fully expect to enjoy PE more.

But subjective is subjective, and I know less about DA:I than most on here I'd wager.

[Battlebloodmage]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think that Project Eternity will appeal to people who say things like "it's for people who actually like RPGs."

Are you referring to the RPG snob crowd?

[Fast Jimmy]

Ah... it's going to be one of those weeks at the BSN, isn't it?

It is not a competition. If a few years ago you had said 'which would be more successful, Skyrim or DA2?' that would be a valid question. They both have major publishers, both are sold across multiple platforms, both had language/localization efforts that would make the game marketable in a world market, both sold primarily on consoles, etc.

To compare a kickstarter game and a AAA budget game is no comparison at all. Will it make more money? Unlikely. Will it receive higher critical acclaim? Again, pretty impropable, given that it would have much less visibility being a small release. Will it provide a better gaming experience? Highly subjective, YMMV.

Will PE's release be impactful for the industry? Absolutely. As one f the first crowd-sourced games, it has all sorts of potential pitfalls but also benefits that the entire gaming industry will observe and learn off of.

Will its lower-budget, no frills design give a fresh perspective on what gamers want? Sure - if only the old fuddy-duddies like myself show up to play and, otherwise, sales are abyssmal, it might mean the death rattle of such a design method. If, instead, loads of players play and enjoy the game, despite nt being graphicsy cutting edge, but offering a gameplay that more than makes up for it, then that too will have the industry taking notice and seeing that perhaps they don't need all the polish and art resources they put money into.

I think the releases if the two games will AFFECT each other... but I don't think they can legitimately compete with each other.

[Savber100]

*says something snarky against Bioware and praises Obsidian flawless record*

For me, I know what I want.

There is no one else that knows better.

Game-wise, we shall see, eh?

Personally I see Project Eternity based on the concept arts as pretty generic looking but I still invested a crapton of money because these are the type of games I enjoy.

[Realmzmaster]

Yes! Let's compare two products that at best right now in the initial stages. Neither one may see the light of day.
Someone at Project Eternity needs to get a grip on the scope and feature creep that is happening or this project is going to disappoint because it will come out half-baked. Also the last time I checked Project Eternity is not coming out for the consoles and DA:I will be.
Project Eternity will not be based on D & D rules but will have a whole new IP and setting. So we will see how that pans out. Obsidian is taking a page from Bioware's playbook in this regard.

I will be looking at both and will enjoy (or not) each individually for what they bring. I am one of those gamers who actually like RPGs.

I judge the product on its merits and what it brings to the table.

[lyleoffmyspace]

bobobo878 wrote...

Obviously DA3 will be the better game because of all the bisexual LI options. Romance is one of the most important elements of fantasy storytelling, and look at the malarkey Tim Cain wrote when asked what kind of romantic subplots Project Eternity would have.

Tim Cain wrote...
So if I were to implement a romance subplot in Eternity - I wouldn’t. I’d examine interpersonal relationships from another angle and I wouldn’t confine it to love and romance. Maybe I’d explore it after a “loving” relationship crashed and burned, and one or both was killed in the aftermath enough for them to see if it had really been worth it spending the last few years of their physical existence chained to each other in a dance of human misery and/or a plateau of soul-killing compromise. Or maybe I’d explore a veteran’s love affair with his craft of murder and allowing souls to be freed to travel beyond their bleeding shell, or a Cipher’s obsession with plucking the emotions of deep-rooted souls to try and see what makes people attracted to each other beyond their baser instincts and discovers love... specifically, his love of manipulating others. You could build an entire dungeon and quest where he devotes himself to replicating facsimiles of love, reducer a Higher Love to a baser thing and using NPCs he encounters as puppets for his experimentations, turning something supposedly beautiful into something filthy, mechanical, but surrounded by blank-eyed soul-twisted drones echoing all the hollow Disney-like platitudes and fairy tale existence where everyone lives happily ever after.

I cancelled my pre-order as soon as I read this, Project Eternity is going to be the worst game in the world.

I'm really hoping this is the extreme sarcasm I sense. Bioware's "romance simulations" have got to stop.

[LinksOcarina]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Ah... it's going to be one of those weeks at the BSN, isn't it?

It is not a competition. If a few years ago you had said 'which would be more successful, Skyrim or DA2?' that would be a valid question. They both have major publishers, both are sold across multiple platforms, both had language/localization efforts that would make the game marketable in a world market, both sold primarily on consoles, etc.

To compare a kickstarter game and a AAA budget game is no comparison at all. Will it make more money? Unlikely. Will it receive higher critical acclaim? Again, pretty impropable, given that it would have much less visibility being a small release. Will it provide a better gaming experience? Highly subjective, YMMV.

Will PE's release be impactful for the industry? Absolutely. As one f the first crowd-sourced games, it has all sorts of potential pitfalls but also benefits that the entire gaming industry will observe and learn off of.

Will its lower-budget, no frills design give a fresh perspective on what gamers want? Sure - if only the old fuddy-duddies like myself show up to play and, otherwise, sales are abyssmal, it might mean the death rattle of such a design method. If, instead, loads of players play and enjoy the game, despite nt being graphicsy cutting edge, but offering a gameplay that more than makes up for it, then that too will have the industry taking notice and seeing that perhaps they don't need all the polish and art resources they put money into.

I think the releases if the two games will AFFECT each other... but I don't think they can legitimately compete with each other.

I fail to see how they will affect each other though as well. Project Eternity has its place, and I won't take that away from anyone, hell I bought into the kickstarter already. But At the same time, I don't think its success or even adoration will create anything but a niche audience for that style of RPG, for good or for bad. I doubt the bigger companies will be affected at all, other than maybe joining in on the fun with smaller titles. 

[upsettingshorts]

lyleoffmyspace wrote...

I'm really hoping this is the extreme sarcasm I sense. Bioware's "romance simulations" have got to stop.

I challenge you to measure precisely what percentage of any given BioWare game a romance subplot actually represents.

[ohnotherancor]

I like how anticipating Dragon Age 3 means that you don't "actually like RPGs".

I almost exclusively play RPGs and backed Project Eternity for quite a bit of money. And I'm really looking forward to DA:I because I loved all of the Dragon Age games and consider them all to be RPGs.

But it's good that I have random strangers on the BSN informing me of my true preferences and opinions. I don't know what I would do without all of you.

[Dhiro]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

lyleoffmyspace wrote...

I'm really hoping this is the extreme sarcasm I sense. Bioware's "romance simulations" have got to stop.

I challenge you to measure precisely what percentage of any given BioWare game a romance subplot actually represents.

Aren't the Alistair and Morrigan romances the only one that actually affect the plot in some way (becoming Queen/following Morrigan through the mirror)? Being annoyed at fans that insist in making everything about romances is one thing - even though I don't personally think it's any worse than make it all about any other feature -, but IMHO BW is doing a good job not letting romances become super important or game breaking.

[Realmzmaster]

lyleoffmyspace wrote...

I'm really hoping this is the extreme sarcasm I sense. Bioware's "romance simulations" have got to stop.

Why? There are a great many on this forum who like that part of Bioware's story. 

[Battlebloodmage]

lyleoffmyspace wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Obviously DA3 will be the better game because of all the bisexual LI options. Romance is one of the most important elements of fantasy storytelling, and look at the malarkey Tim Cain wrote when asked what kind of romantic subplots Project Eternity would have.

Tim Cain wrote...
So if I were to implement a romance subplot in Eternity - I wouldn’t. I’d examine interpersonal relationships from another angle and I wouldn’t confine it to love and romance. Maybe I’d explore it after a “loving” relationship crashed and burned, and one or both was killed in the aftermath enough for them to see if it had really been worth it spending the last few years of their physical existence chained to each other in a dance of human misery and/or a plateau of soul-killing compromise. Or maybe I’d explore a veteran’s love affair with his craft of murder and allowing souls to be freed to travel beyond their bleeding shell, or a Cipher’s obsession with plucking the emotions of deep-rooted souls to try and see what makes people attracted to each other beyond their baser instincts and discovers love... specifically, his love of manipulating others. You could build an entire dungeon and quest where he devotes himself to replicating facsimiles of love, reducer a Higher Love to a baser thing and using NPCs he encounters as puppets for his experimentations, turning something supposedly beautiful into something filthy, mechanical, but surrounded by blank-eyed soul-twisted drones echoing all the hollow Disney-like platitudes and fairy tale existence where everyone lives happily ever after.

I cancelled my pre-order as soon as I read this, Project Eternity is going to be the worst game in the world.

I'm really hoping this is the extreme sarcasm I sense. Bioware's "romance simulations" have got to stop.

I admit that was one of the reasons why I picked up DA and ME3 later on. Bioware is one of the few companies that let me be myself in the game.

[Wozearly]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think they are games that look to deliver different things, and hope that both are highly successful and greatly enjoyed by the people that pick them up.

Agreed.

[Morrigan disapproves, -2]

[Iakus]

bobobo878 wrote...

Obviously DA3 will be the better game because of all the bisexual LI options. Romance is one of the most important elements of fantasy storytelling, and look at the malarkey Tim Cain wrote when asked what kind of romantic subplots Project Eternity would have.

Tim Cain wrote...
So if I were to implement a romance subplot in Eternity - I wouldn’t. I’d examine interpersonal relationships from another angle and I wouldn’t confine it to love and romance. Maybe I’d explore it after a “loving” relationship crashed and burned, and one or both was killed in the aftermath enough for them to see if it had really been worth it spending the last few years of their physical existence chained to each other in a dance of human misery and/or a plateau of soul-killing compromise. Or maybe I’d explore a veteran’s love affair with his craft of murder and allowing souls to be freed to travel beyond their bleeding shell, or a Cipher’s obsession with plucking the emotions of deep-rooted souls to try and see what makes people attracted to each other beyond their baser instincts and discovers love... specifically, his love of manipulating others. You could build an entire dungeon and quest where he devotes himself to replicating facsimiles of love, reducer a Higher Love to a baser thing and using NPCs he encounters as puppets for his experimentations, turning something supposedly beautiful into something filthy, mechanical, but surrounded by blank-eyed soul-twisted drones echoing all the hollow Disney-like platitudes and fairy tale existence where everyone lives happily ever after.

I cancelled my pre-order as soon as I read this, Project Eternity is going to be the worst game in the world.

Not too worried.  Alpha Protocol had decent romances.  Especially Mina's, which is ironic given she and Mike are on different continents for most of the game, and only have maybe three scenes in the same room together!

[argan1985]

I believe Project Eternity will blow away Dragon Age 3 completely.

I cancelled my pre-order as soon as I read this, Project Eternity is going to be the worst game in the world.

Not sure if serious...

Modifié par argan1985, 19 décembre 2012 - 08:19 .

[Arppis]

Go for it then.

To be fair, I never liked Baldur's gate THAT much. Gameplay was bit... meh. I like the Mass Effect style a bit better, where you actualy order rather than "ASUMING CONTROL" your team mates. Much better in RP-standpoint.

I know DA still follows the "mind control all things as omnipotent god in the skies"-control scheme. But still.

Modifié par Arppis, 19 décembre 2012 - 08:23 .

[argan1985]

Sanunes wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

lyleoffmyspace wrote...

How will DA3 hold up to Project Eternity?

I suspect that on both a critical and financial level, DA:I will do better than PE. PE is a niche product designed for a niche audience. It's also being created by Obsidian who have a rather horrible track record when it comes to executing their designs.

I say this as someone who's played Alpha Protocol and think it's a great game.

I agree with what you said, I played Alpha Protocol right up to the point my save game became corrupted and the only solution was to restart the game and I just haven't felt like doing that yet.

I have sponsored Project Eternity, but if you look at their boards its pretty close to what BioWare's are like with comments being made.  The problem that I can see with Project Eternity is the people that are voicing their opinion feel even more entitled because they invested in the game instead of just buying the finished product and this might cost Obsidian in the long run if enough investors feel burned by the direction they went.

The big difference between the two products is this, BioWare is trying to make their games more mainstream to attract a larger audience to their games and Obsidian is making a game less mainstream to attract a niche market.  Only time will really tell the answer to your question.

I agree, and I really hope that Obsidian does not listen one iota to their forum members. The thing is, you were given a vision of a retro-style 2D isometric game in the vein of Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment. If people want and expect the game to be more like Dragon Age (in regards to romances, companion interactions and so on), they deserve to get burned. They knew what they were pledging for.

Relax, he wasn't. He trolls, that's what he does.

Hm, though so.

[Aolbain]

Will I buy DA3? Yes. Will I buy P:E? Yes. Will I enjoy both? Most properly yes.

[Wulfram]

argan1985 wrote...

I agree, and I really hope that Obsidian does not listen one iota to their forum members. The thing is, you were given a vision of a retro-style 2D isometric game in the vein of Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment. If people want and expect the game to be more like Dragon Age (in regards to romances, companion interactions and so on), they deserve to get burned. They knew what they were pledging for.

Baldur's Gate 2 had romances and strong companion interaction.  And that's the game people thing of when you say Baldur's Gate, I bet.

Modifié par Wulfram, 19 décembre 2012 - 08:35 .

[argan1985]

Not very similar to the ME/DA franchises, and there was very little to it. Maybe I worded it badly, I'm not against interesting companions but it should be very well woven into the main storyline; not separate "romanceable" entities with accompanying sidequests. Planescape: Torment got it done right; Morte, Deionarra (though not a companion), Ignus, Dak'Kon.

And I actually preferred Baldur's Gate 1, but I'm probably in the minority.

Modifié par argan1985, 19 décembre 2012 - 08:39 .

[syllogi]

bobobo878 wrote...

Obviously DA3 will be the better game because of all the bisexual LI options. Romance is one of the most important elements of fantasy storytelling, and look at the malarkey Tim Cain wrote when asked what kind of romantic subplots Project Eternity would have.

Tim Cain wrote...
So if I were to implement a romance subplot in Eternity - I wouldn’t. I’d examine interpersonal relationships from another angle and I wouldn’t confine it to love and romance. Maybe I’d explore it after a “loving” relationship crashed and burned, and one or both was killed in the aftermath enough for them to see if it had really been worth it spending the last few years of their physical existence chained to each other in a dance of human misery and/or a plateau of soul-killing compromise. Or maybe I’d explore a veteran’s love affair with his craft of murder and allowing souls to be freed to travel beyond their bleeding shell, or a Cipher’s obsession with plucking the emotions of deep-rooted souls to try and see what makes people attracted to each other beyond their baser instincts and discovers love... specifically, his love of manipulating others. You could build an entire dungeon and quest where he devotes himself to replicating facsimiles of love, reducer a Higher Love to a baser thing and using NPCs he encounters as puppets for his experimentations, turning something supposedly beautiful into something filthy, mechanical, but surrounded by blank-eyed soul-twisted drones echoing all the hollow Disney-like platitudes and fairy tale existence where everyone lives happily ever after.

I cancelled my pre-order as soon as I read this, Project Eternity is going to be the worst game in the world.

That is a Chris Avellone quote: http://www.gameranx....oject-eternity/

And he was being somewhat facetious.  Avellone has said in the past that he has played the Dragon Age games, and even enjoyed the romances, but he finds them hard to write.