50 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

WillieStyle wrote...
However, I gained no satisfaction from killing her. She just seemed to be a tragic character doomed by her loyalty to Loghain. If there was an option for her to surrender to me I'd take it in a heartbeat. Then again, she's so badass she'd never surrender.

She does surrender, though, if you Persuade her to let you stop Loghain at the Landsmeet.

[melkathi]

Thomas9321 wrote...

Back on topic: Cauthrien is doomed to die when she insults me infront of Arl Eamon, Loghain and Howe. If she kept her mouth shut, I might spare her, but as it stands she gets a sword upside her head.

You know, that's the bit that bothers me about Cauthrien. Her blind dedication and loyalty. Her ability to block out the truth (after all, we know she was shocked by Loghain's decission to abandon Ostagar. It's shown plain as day in the cutscene), all that I can understand and forgive.
It's the fact that like a stupid little dog she goes yapping at you because you are her master's enemy.

In a way Cauthrien is to Loghain what Dog is to the player. The 100 Loyalty companion who will go fetch when told and bark a lot.
I'd love to be able to reply, when she insults you in front of everyone "Hush you, my fight is with the teyrn, not his pet mabari."

[Fanghorne]

Yup. I hate blind loyalty in the face of obvious scrutiny/evidence to the contrary. It implies the said character has really no sense of themselves.



Hence I had to kill her.../sigh

[Few87]

 Thats pretty cruel of you. She's only doing what she thinks is right and is being loyal to the person that gave her everything. You can talk her around in the end as well. Youre all heartless

[Quientus]

Personally I think that Ser Cauthrien is probably one of the most underestimated characters in the game, and I would have loved to have seen more of her ...

In fact I would argue that I would have wanted to see the option of her becoming a Grey Warden much more than Loghain ... - Not only would this have made a far more viable conclusion and probably outcome, than having Loghain undergo the ritual of the Joining ...

I mean ... - It makes absolutely ZERO sense that Loghain would even consider going through with this, even after you defeat him ... Through the entire story Loghain is just not the kind of man who would succumb to this, especially not after being defeated and "dragged" through the entire ordeal of being exposed (and humilated) at the Landsmeet ... Through the entire plot Loghain (and Howe) goes out of their way to obfuscate and hinder the progress of the PC ... Even trying to "assassinate" the Arl of Redcliffe, not to mention other various shady business of undermining the very structure of Denerim and Ferelden as a whole, in order to ensure his own path to becoming the King ...

Loghain through most of the story is a man driven by ambition and has been "blinded" by his own success (in the past) that have (somewhat) glorified him ... - The betrayal at Ostagar is only the culmination of his plot that he has been planning for much longer ... No doubt, had the battle at Ostagar not occured, it all likelyhood (with how Loghain is built up as a character through out the game), Loghain would no doubt have tried to assassinate King Cailan at some other later stage ...

I don't buy the arguement that Loghain was under "bad" influence ... A general and person (like he is portrayed out to be) simply just not succumb to sheer flattery from anyone, unless they have a far larger ulterior motive ...

Loghain isn't a idealist ... He is a pragmatist and very powerhungry ... - No doubt the only reason he accepted his daughters marriage to Cailan in the first place, was probably because he saw how it could benefit him.

A much more likely outcome of that encounter (Landsmeet) would have been that if you decide to spare him, Loghain would either commit suicide or just try to attack you again, in a similar fashion as Bhelen tries to in Orzammar (if you don't make him king ...) - ending in "Epic Fail!" ...

But back to Ser Cauthrien ...

I personally think the Bioware writes kinda made an "oversight" on this one ... As I mentioned earlier, the Loghain joining the Grey Wardens (in my opinion) would have been far more appropriate and "true" to the storyline if they had made the option for Ser Cauthrien instead ...

And the alternative ending, where Cauthrien backs down from a initially (hostile) encounter with the PC only really goes to support this ... Not to mention the initial cutscene at Ostagar where she obviously has her reservations about Loghain pulling his troops out, but she ends up complying with her orders, as she should have ... (Hindsight is always 20/20), but at that time she knows it is not her place - nor is it the right place to question your commander in chief ... - That would kinda like being having your troops question you when ordered to advance in say (Iraq or Afghanistan, while a battle is commencing ...) ...

Ser Cauthrien in my opinion is probably one of the "believable" NPC's in the game as a whole ... This is a person who is dedicated to the person she serves, yet she isn't "blind", but she knows what the "chain of command" is and is following this, even when she disagrees (which incidently) is what would be needed in such times as is portrayed in DAO ... Further, if you (the PC) have done the proper "side quests" and freed the various persons, as well as having a high persuasion skill, it is still possible to gain her respect ... - And avoid a fight with her ...

I'm sorry, but I personally believe that the Loghain and Ser Cauthrien story ending is probably one of the largest "flaws" made by the Bioware writers in DAO ... That and the level progression through out the game ... (but I'm posting my thoughts on the level progression in another thread ...)

[kgav]

She should have been loyal to her King! When she followed Loghain's orders and abandoned her King she was never able to earn my respect. When she insulted me I wanted to kill her on the spot, in fact I should be able to fight Loghain, Howe and her right then and there. That would be a fun fight.

[SupidSeep]

Since it is possible to make her back down without a fight, I seriously prefer to leave her alive, nevermind the Summer Sword. It takes a lot to turn away from the one who had been a hero and whom one served faithfully for years. Howe and Loghead I can kill without regretting their deaths since they won't yield without fighting.



Making Ser Cauthrien a Warden is a nice idea ... much better than Loghead.

[Stuffy38]

It's weird, I was looking through the conversation lines in the editor yesterday, and there's some line in there from Cauthrien which - to me - seem to take place AFTER the Landsmeet. It is something to do with Cauthrien has been made Anora's personal guard or words to that effect. I don't know where this speech is triggered, or even if it is still used in the game.

(just had another look)

It is set after the Landsmeet, and has 2 lines, both of which are non-cutscene text.  First one is if Anora is queen:
(1) The queen has allowed me to join her personal guard. I'll keep her safe. Andraste watch over you, Warden.
(2) Don't speak to me. I'd be too tempted to violence, and I'd rather not offend our new king so soon.

Modifié par Stuffy38, 08 janvier 2010 - 09:46 .

[Behindyounow]

The only people who I wanted to kill more than her were Anora and Morrigan. Especially Morrigan.



Killing her was its own reward... but the Summer Sword was definitely a nice bonus.

[Maria Caliban]

I thought both Anora and Ser Cauthrien were excellent characters. I've never taken pleasure in killing them.

[ReubenLiew]

I want her sword, but damnit if the price is her death then I can live without it ><

[knarayan]

My first playthrough with Cauthrien, I felt sad for her - but in my Dalish Elf playthrough , when she says "Silence, Churl, your betters are speaking" or some such thing - she had to die.

[melkathi]

knarayan wrote...

My first playthrough with Cauthrien, I felt sad for her - but in my Dalish Elf playthrough , when she says "Silence, Churl, your betters are speaking" or some such thing - she had to die.

You know, that's the line were my human noble and dwarf noble want to simply chop her head off.
How dare the little farm girl even address me?

[sethroskull79]

Killing her is fun. In fact, now that I've done it and know how to do it, I will never go to Fort Drakon. My party all lose approval rating when I elected to give up. I worked hard for that approval so I wasn't about to let my party down, so that dirty **** had to die.

[Creature 1]

You could always disable healing tactics, fight, and die. No approval loss, no potion loss.

[-Conspirator]

ReubenLiew wrote...

I want her sword, but damnit if the price is her death then I can live without it ><

Easy one. Kill her at Howe's Estate, loot the sword and get killed by the remaining soldiers. Then she will live and you'll meet her before the landsmeet, where you can talk to her.

[sethroskull79]

What is the point in keeping her alive again?

[-Conspirator]

She is a strong woman, who is blinded by loyalty. She is no bad person.

I even got to like her.

[sethroskull79]

I also think that my party at the time was all strong minded warrior types so thats why they got pissed when I gave up. Fort Drakon is fun, its just that I read so much about this fight and how hard it was so I wanted to do it. And Yeah, its hard. I play on hard and it was a mother F'er. But I think I may have beaten it a way that many others have not.

[Fanghorne]

For some reason goign to Fort Drakon and getting captured after spending nearly 70 hours of game play as "free spirits", I wasnt about to /bow down to Cauthrien. In fact if any part of the dialogue option and been a whiper to my PC along the lines of "Warden I understand what you might be doing and I commend your convictions. But I have to follow my chain of command. Please come with me peacefully etc"



Had that happened I might have allowed her to capture me. But the nasty insults....no. I had to have some measure of basic self respect.



Blind loyalty is a VERY dangerous human characterological trait. She was that representation to me.

[kgav]

Yeah, she is not blind she must be seeing what is going on and she just stays in line and does what she's told. Soldiers are hung for following unlawful orders. The only character who mourns her loss is Anora and who gives a rat's ass what she thinks.

Just following orders is no excuse, if she were a strong character she'd have run Loghain through when he gave the order to withdraw at Ostagar. The traitorous wench deserves to die at the end of my sword.

Modifié par kgav, 08 janvier 2010 - 04:59 .

[hereticeyes]

Of course I killed her. A Grey Warden's duty is always imperative, regardless of the cost. What self-respecting Warden would bow down to the henchman of your rival Loghain?

What if they just executed you after you laid down your weapons and surrendered? I have a feeling that Duncan himself would have fought, just as Alistair prefers to do.

Modifié par hereticeyes, 08 janvier 2010 - 06:32 .

[fongiel24]

Fanghorne wrote...

Actually the most satisfying kill other then Loghain was Howe. I cant believe that as a noble Bioware didnt put in some special animation like ogres where you could really watch him get nailed. Lying in a pool of blood was quasi anti-climatic.

I found Howe to be the least satisfying kill for that reason. My first playthrough was as a human noble so I got to hear Howe mock me about how my family died. After all that, all I get is a "Maker spit on you!" and then a groan? I was really hoping for the option to take him alive for evidence in the landsmeet, then have him publicly executed with the rest of his family... but I'm just bloodthirsty... <_<

[Fanghorne]

Exactly Fongie. I wanted a jump up in the air aka "crouching Tiger" and exact vengence. Pool of blood , half hearted whimper just left me more hungry.



Like I need a Snickers kind of hungry

[T0paze]

Well, that was a tough fight, but otherwise it wasn't too memorable. Surrender was not an option, since only a fool would trust Loghain's benevolence, as Gorion would say. She had her orders, I had my mission, so she was slain. Tough luck, RIP, time to move on.