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If they don't tie the plot for Hawke and Warden, would you still buy DA3?


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#151
Fast Jimmy

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Commander Kurt wrote...

You're right though, keep the expectations low. This is something very novel and it's not going to work flawlessly from the get go (no matter what marketing tries to tell you!).


Its not entirely novel, to be fair. Games have offered ways to carry forward your progress/character that referenced your past actions. Granted, the amount of choice coupled with the carry over is probably never been met to this scale.

But there isn't really a way to improve the concept without creating custom content. Even if they fix the import files, or make it so we can "set up" the world at the beginning of DA:I with what we want, it still comes down to how much they are willing to create that will only be seen by the players who made a certain choice.

For LIs and romances, that is pretty small. If they don't bring back any former characters (including the PCs), they just don't have to talk about it. For bigger things, like who the king is or if the lost secret of creating golem armies is back in the hands of the dwarves (if you saved the Anvil) or how many Mage's Tower there are in Thedas (depending on if you performed the Right of Annulment in Ferelden and Kirkwall or not) could be pretty far reaching in their impacts. 

A story where the Dwarves now have one of the most powerful armies in Thedas, versus one where they are barely hanging on against encroaching darkspawn, is pretty significant. A story where the Chantry has an artifact that can give weight to their beliefs and doctrine (the Urn of Sacred Ashes) when a war is about to break out about that very religion's theology in regards to mages is pretty significant. Having a king of Ferelden like Allistair who would support Mage Freedom or a Queen like Anora who would be prejudiced like her father against anything involved with Orlais (and, hence, the Chantry) is pretty significant. If the Arishok, leader of all the Qunari armies, was killed violently by humans or was able to leave in peace is pretty significant. Having a sominari, the most powerful type of mage that we know of in all of the Thedas right on the eve of a huge war between Mages and Templars, being either dead, alive, possessed or Trainquilled is pretty significant.

But they WON'T be significant. This is worse than not offering player choice - it negates it. It acts like it acknowledges it, but in reality is making it null and void. By giving us choices in previous games that touch on huge institutions like the Mages, the Dwarves, the monarchy of Ferelden, the Chantry (again, Urn of Sacred Ashes), the Qunari... and then saying that custom content is not viable, it basically forces a static outcome in future games, regardless of choice, or it causes the writers to just ignore those topics altogether.

That includes ignoring your Warden and Hawke. It includes ignoring the king of Orzammar. And returning fan favorites, like Shale. 

Its not  a matter of "budding technology" or a new feature being tested out... its a strict impossibility. You can't offer choices that affect the world, and then expect to only create one world the next game. The only options are to not offer any real choices at all, or offering choices during one game and then setting a canon when the next game comes out. Maybe have a small handful of choices that you can color up the next game with, at best. But dispell the notion entirely that this was "your character's" world that you are continuing in. Its not. It CAN'T be. Maybe if this was an old IE type of game, where extra levels could be whipped up and entire dialogues and character appearances could be changed on the fly... AND if that game had as huge of a budget as the DA games had... but with the current resource-intensive development style the DA games have? Its not possible.

DA could be a series that respects and creates tons of different worlds based on your choices. Or it can be a cinematic, visually engaging story-telling medium. It can't be both. Not in a world of limited resources and time.

#152
Guest_Nizaris1_*

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The only problem is DA2 is not a continuation of DA:O, but still in the same world of DA:O, i mean the event is the same, not 100 years in the future, at the same time Bioware need cameos to buy old fans of DA:O...that leave sooo many questions unanswered and fans demand an answer

If DA2 is 100 years later from DA:O, Bioware can just make it easier giving all the answers in the codex...

edit : All characters of DA:O are DEAD, every event based on players choices are mentioned in stories in the codex, DA2 will be a total new game in a new world and new timeline, about new issue and easier to expand the story and make it richful...

Modifié par Nizaris1, 21 décembre 2012 - 06:31 .


#153
Solas

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Exile Isan wrote...

Carbon-based wrote...

Leliana doesn't think the disappearances of the Warden and Hawke are a coincidence, I wanna know what that's all about. 


She also thought The Resolutions were behind the problems in Kirkwall so I've never put much stock in her reasoning that Hawke and the Warden's disappearing was a coincidence. Especially since, if memory serves she says the same thing of a Warden that is dead.

It really irritates me that Leliana got hit with the stupid stick in DA2. *sigh*

Indeed, I'm not totally sure about her reasoning either, hence my phrasing. I wanna know what that line of thinking [and more, if she's correct] is all about.

Modifié par Carbon-based, 21 décembre 2012 - 06:57 .


#154
esper

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Exile Isan wrote...

Carbon-based wrote...

Leliana doesn't think the disappearances of the Warden and Hawke are a coincidence, I wanna know what that's all about. 


She also thought The Resolutions were behind the problems in Kirkwall so I've never put much stock in her reasoning that Hawke and the Warden's disappearing was a coincidence. Especially since, if memory serves she says the same thing of a Warden that is dead.

It really irritates me that Leliana got hit with the stupid stick in DA2. *sigh*


She did also have a habit of drawing random connections in da:o. Such as dream + flower = vision. So I will not say it is something new...

#155
Plaintiff

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Carbon-based wrote...

Exile Isan wrote...

Carbon-based wrote...

Leliana doesn't think the disappearances of the Warden and Hawke are a coincidence, I wanna know what that's all about. 


She also thought The Resolutions were behind the problems in Kirkwall so I've never put much stock in her reasoning that Hawke and the Warden's disappearing was a coincidence. Especially since, if memory serves she says the same thing of a Warden that is dead.

It really irritates me that Leliana got hit with the stupid stick in DA2. *sigh*

Indeed, I'm not totally sure about her reasoning either, hence my phrasing. I wanna know what that line of thinking [and more, if she's correct] is all about.

In the case of a dead Warden, Leliana is apparently referring to the Orlesian Warden-Commander from Awakening. At least, that's what I heard.

#156
Icesong

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Commander Kurt wrote...

Icesong wrote...

It might sound like the easy way out but it's actually much harder to create a world that isn't dependant on reusing old characters.


I would think that all you really had to do was set the new story in a new area and maybe even throw in a couple of years between them. It's more to it than that?


If you're talking about the idea of keeping the hero out of the next game, then yeah. But I meant the challenge of keeping people interested in your world from story to story without retaining the same cast of characters.

#157
dsl08002

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Also when talking about leliana and she says that it is not coindicence, she is also my wardens LI and she has every reason to search for the warden.

By simply take that away and dont tie up with that is to much strange.

and i also thought after that conversation in the ending of DA2 that we were going to see a DA# where we play as either warden, hawke or new character.

That way be able to tie up with what we have already seen in DAO and DA2.

#158
Twisted Path

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Like I said earlier: maybe when Leiliana said that "the Warden" had disappeared she was totally talking about Stroud. There's your out Bioware, please take it.

#159
Rinshikai10

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Stroud as far as I know has had no influence outside the order while the hero of Fereldan does. That is likely why the warden/ warden commander is being searched for by the Chantry. They have done something that shows that they can get things done.

#160
Provi-dance

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I would be glad if they don't tie Hawke and Warden into the plot.

#161
frankf43

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I'll buy the game on day of release with or with out the inclusion of Warden/Hawke.

My only stipulation was that I didn't want to be forced to play pro-chantry. Now that has been confirmed I will be counting down the days until its release.

I don't know if DA:I has a strong tie in to the Warden's story I'll wait and see, but I do think that the direction the game is taking will tie into and develop the plot of Hawke. whether this will be directly or indirectly I will find out in due course.

No matter what there are far too few good WFRPG's to be discarding my favourite franchise.

#162
Lord Nikon 001

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One of the only reasons I may buy it is if they DON'T tie it in with Hawke or the Warden. I want a new story with no link to either of the first two games. No former companions, No former protagonist return... nothing.

A totally fresh approach to the DA world. Tieing it ionto either of the first to games will immediately displease in some way the people who wanted something or didn't want something which was in the previous two.

They're both better left alone.

#163
MilaBanilla

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I would definitely buy it. Hawke and the Warden story is over for me. Something outside of them will be refreshing. I don't mind a cameo though but I won't complain if there isn't. I just want my Warden and Hawke to be left at peace with their LI drinking their pina coladas.
I just want my decisions from DA:O and DA2 to take an effect in DA:I

#164
KainD

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I am hoping to never see Warden and Hawke ever again. HEARING what happened in their further life, based on the decisions made by the player is fine though.

#165
Destr1er

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I would buy if they tied in the Warden and Morrigan/the God baby and all the player choices from DA:O & Awakening.
I would actually pay more if they retconned Hawke and everything from DA2.

If it is a direct sequel to DA2, or continues any of its terrible plot I will pass. I will also skip it if they add the terrible DA2 anime-based 'visceral' combat.

Modifié par Destr1er, 22 décembre 2012 - 01:07 .


#166
Mummy22kids

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KainD wrote...

I am hoping to never see Warden and Hawke ever again. HEARING what happened in their further life, based on the decisions made by the player is fine though.



#167
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Yeah, I am not really interested in the Warden or Hawke. They were okay, but I am more interested in the new protagonist than the old ones. I care more about the choices I made in those games than the characters I played as.

#168
zeMadMonkey

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Just some closure will be enough. They don't have to be playable just so I know that they are all great and getting on with their lives.
With my Warden he went with Leliana and just went adventuring and now she doesn't know where the warden is which messes up my headcanon a bit.
With Hawke they killed Meredith and Orsino then left with Isabela to travel the seas. The thing that annoys me is how Hawke suddenly disappeared and no-one knows where they are.
It seems odd that they would just disappear unless they were hiding their real identity so they don't have to get involved in the big issues. Their story is done but I won't be against them playing a part in the next game be it major or minor, I'll still buy DA3

#169
Kileyan

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If I like the style of the game, I will buy it regardless of save carry overs at all, or any focus on Hawke or the Warden. I actually want Bioware to create a world like the old AD&D Forgotten Realms, then send me on adventures in that world. Bioware has said as much, the main character is the world they created, not the characters we play in each game release.

Anyways if its a good story with some interesting places to go and see, I don't really care if every game is a nod to a character I played before. Mass Effect was a great series, but I don't require from this point on, every game I play in a Bioware franchise, to be a continuation of the same character. All I require is that Bioware wrap up the stories of the character a little better, within the game they appear in, not dragging it out for dlcs and then dropping it when they find the dlc's are not good financial moves.

Is it that hard? Tell a good self contained story and then give me a new story. Problems arise when the stories are left hanging, you end up with fans who dont' want new stuff when they are still waiting for the old stuff to make sense.

Modifié par Kileyan, 22 décembre 2012 - 01:32 .


#170
Rorschachinstein

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I'm personally getting tired of the vague cliff hanger endings.

#171
silentstephi

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Dragon Age doesn't seem to convey that it's continuing your PCs story from the previous games. It's not Mass Effect. It's the 'verse you're in. Saying something like 'if there's no tie in of the previous PCs then it shouldn't be called Dragon Age' doesn't truck with what the games are.

They're about the 'verse and the stuff that goes on in it.

I'll admit, there's some gaps in what's going one with those characters that we played that I'd like to see SOME resolution too. A hint that it wasn't just arbitrary so that the writers didn't have to bring them in to further games. The fact there there's some continuity between titles is nice to see, as it lets you have the feeling you're having some sort of influence on what's usually just a static story line.

But it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.

Now, not being able to romance Cullen in DA3... ;)

#172
Mummy22kids

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I don't find I'm particularly married to my head cannon anyway.

#173
Nefla

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My warden and Hawke flew off to join Revan in unknown space, I'm pretty sure.

#174
deuce985

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I'm expecting them not to. So yea, I'll still buy it...

Not everything needs visual closure and I'm kinda glad DA writers leave some things up to imagination. It means I can see an ending how I want. It's better than a writer forcing an ending I don't like.

inb4vagueendingsarelazywriting

Modifié par deuce985, 22 décembre 2012 - 02:05 .


#175
Sacred_Fantasy

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ShadowAMD wrote...

 A lot of unexplained things and a lot of time spent on DA / DAO and DA2..

After all that time and commitment with characters, would it put you off the game to simply remove Hawke and Warden and not tie up the loose ends?


With the way they write character continuation Like Merril, Anders and Leliana, I'd rather a lot of things remain unexplained.  

 After all that time and commitment with Morrigan, Alistair and my Warden(s) is precisely the reason why I would rather NOT have my warden to tie up the loose ends. I have zero confidence in BioWare to do it right, especially when it comes to my Warden. I don't give a damn if BioWare turn Hawke into a chimpanzee with the voice of Donkey Kong!