89 réponses à ce sujet

[MassEffect762]

No, I do not feel this game is ahead of it's time nor revolutionary.

[hyrulehistorian]

i am both a pc gamer and a console gamer. a retro gamer and a modern gamer. an rpg player and an action player. Many people on this forum are like me, very universal and broad in there tastes for video games. However I fimly believe that the PC and console are very different mediums. Much like tv and movies. One is not better than the other. But i do believe that the control scheme, which was like baldur's gate and neverwinter nights is a very PC like design. now i have only played the PC version though i will get a second hand copy for the 360 one day. however i have heard that the level of micromanagment and party control is much higher in the pc version. I have also heard that the console version is significantly easier. Again this is just what i hear. I agree with you that this game should have focused on one medium and then ported it. you say consoles to pc, i say pc to console. And thats exactly what it was. This was a pc game ported to consoles, like the sims or half life would be. I believe that this game was made from the ground up as a pc game and later ported. Then they released it all simutaniously to be commercial, which is from a buisness standpoint the healthiest thing for the franchise.

Modifié par hyrulehistorian, 07 janvier 2010 - 01:50 .

[Dex1701]

hyrulehistorian wrote...

i am both a pc gamer and a console gamer. a retro gamer and a modern gamer. an rpg player and an action player. Many people on this forum are like me, very universal and broad in there tastes for video games. However I fimly believe that the PC and console are very different mediums. Much like tv and movies. One is not better than the other. But i do believe that the control scheme, which was like baldur's gate and neverwinter nights is a very PC like design. now i have only played the PC version though i will get a second hand copy for the 360 one day. however i have heard that the level of micromanagment and party control is much higher in the pc version. I have also heard that the console version is significantly easier. Again this is just what i hear. I agree with you that this game should have focused on one medium and then ported it. you say consoles to pc, i say pc to console. And thats exactly what it was. This was a pc game ported to consoles, like the sims or half life would be. I believe that this game was made from the ground up as a pc game and later ported. Then they released it all simutaniously to be commercial, which is from a buisness standpoint the healthiest thing for the franchise.

Well-said.

[StrangeCat Productions]

OP you just don't know the game market right now.  If you don't release your game on console you lose Huge Market!   Not everyone  can be CD Project Red "and even they are going to be releasing there stuff to consoles."

Games aren't what they used to be when they were just made for PC's because the market has changed.

DAO ahead of it's time? hardly!  It's a great game with a great formula but compared to say what Dream Glass studios was doing back in the day it's actually backwards interms of design.

It's a good IP the only RPG out there like it at this time and many people are enjoying it but it's not Ahead of anything.

[Elanareon]

Timurlane wrote...

Did you seriously offer up consolitis as a cure for what ails DA:O?
Consolitis is the commonly known disease of the games industry, not the cure.

Companies turn to consoles for one reason and one reason only - Money. The bottom line.
It's a verifiable fact that console players will pay more to receive less. Why bother creating a good game or even a great game for PC that you can sell for $50 when console users will drop $70 for the same game with significantly less features? Not to mention the inability for console users to pirate games.
Seriously anybody who has been following the industry for the past couple decades knows without a shade of doubt that the quality of games is going down for 2 very good reason, neither of which you can blame the game dev companies for. 1 - piracy. People steal their ****, it lowers profits and embitters them against PC. 2- consolitis. companies like microsoft will buy the exclusive rights to a good PC game to force it onto their console creating market share not only for their console unit itself, but also for all the IPs (intellectual property) that they buy ensuring a big market for their crap in the future.

To conclude - if anything, DA:O is a game which should have been PC exclusive but was put on the consoles for the damned good reason of money money money. I can't imagine how slow I would be setting up party abilities on a console, not to mention how unbearably terrible everything would look (I've got it all maxed settings on PC and it's gorgeous). Perhaps one day I'll go back to playing consoles, but I like many others have seen the light by playing the same game (GTA3) on my console and then subsequently on my PC. The idea of ever touching the hideous and controller-defunct console version of the game is so misguided that it hurts to even consider.

Inability of consoles to pirate games? You have much to learn my friend.

[goat_fab]

Let me start off by saying that you're on the internet forums for a video game. No need to write as if you're making a college essay.

Now to your point, and my simple argument: No. No, it did not suffer. I'm not going to go through and type up the same....report as you did, but I'll throw in a few comments as I remember what you wrote.

What is this your saying about the increasing cost to game on a computer? A lie, imo. I have an almost 6 year old PC that has upgraded it's graphics card and memory 3 times. Now, you might say "But to upgrade that is like, 200 dollars or more!" At this point, I laugh in your face and spit on your boots. Lets look at it this way: All console games are suffering from an ever increasing population of 12 year olds. Now, I have nothing against 12 year olds seeing as I was one at one point. This was why I refused to buy/use a microphone while playing. No one wants to here "OMG YOU HACK AND SUCK AND YOU'RE STUPID AND I HATE YOU.", especially if you sound like a 4 year old girl. Point 2: Console games have this funny habit of being more expensive than PC games. The lower price on PC games will slowly but surely override the price of upgrading my PC. Point 3: Besides the other obvious technical problems when a new console comes out as opposed to staying on a good ol' computer, you get the fantastical P2P system. Why pay for LIVE when you can play the same game for free, and without having to mute the children?

Hm...can't remember what else you said. Oh, yeah. To even expect a game to come out flawlessly without any delays, bugs, etc. is so unbelievably stupid. The best part about it is that there's always a group of people on every forum for every game that gets so worked up about it. They will always whine about whatever happens. "Well, we're holding back the release date for a month, but the game costs 50% less now!" to which the forumites reply with "WUT? I WUNNA PLA NAO. RITE NAO. SCRU CHEAPR, THERE LYING. GIVE ME TEH GAME PLZ" A game is held back to fix a bunch of unexpected bugs, people get pissed. Game is released with bugs, people get pissed. That's the way it is. There's ALWAYS going to be delays. It might not even be a game release. It could be an announcement, patches, or anything. Just be happy it's DLC (a concept that I wish would die) and not DA:O or DA:A.

 I'm sorry, did you make a comment about delays due to nudity and the maturity of the game? Look, bub. It doesn't matter if there's a scene with a guy getting his head eaten. There are always people that sit and watch for a game that could be offensive, although I have no idea how a nipple is even slightly offensive. Or having sex, for that matter. There's a video out there in which an 'expert', a female, who is screaming about how offensive the sex scene in which you see side boob for all of .01 seconds in ME is. Her debating opponent asks her this simple question, "Have you actually seen the scene?" The argument soon fizzled out and the lady announced later that the scene wasn't really offensive. It's not a matter of debate within BioWare. A game with an AO rating (given by the ESRB, who I have a feeling is run by a group of angry mothers) will not sell. The thing some people fail to realize is that people under 18 aren't allowed to buy the game, and if they get their hands on it it is the parent's fault, not the developer. I'm getting off track. The only thing I mean to say was this: All changes to the amounts of nudity, gore, etc. is made because the ESRB or EA didn't like the current levels.

How can you assume that DA:O was destined for the PC because of BG and NWN? Lmao. The only possible way to know that is to have been with BioWare/EA when they were debating how the game would've been released. You could say that the only and entire reason Halo 3 came out on the 360 is to make a homage to the first Halo being released on the original Xbox. Ridiculous.

[AdMaar]

DAO is, in my opinion, well BEHIND the times. It's just a prettier version of some older titles, like Baldur's Gate. The story is weak, the quests are weak, quick, and easy, the origins (as different as each may be) do not in any way dramatically impact the game-play... and as a whole, it is SERIOUSLY lacking in content. I could have forgiven this, if they had sacrificed for the sake of INSANELY phenomenal graphics, but seing as alot o the clothes look like plastic, and some of the hair and beards look like 'playdough', I'm disappointed. Anyone who describes this as 'epic' should look the word up. There is nothing epic about the adventure.

Step One: Experience you super brief and relatively boring (except the Dwarf Comoner Rogue) origin.
Step Two: Be initiated into the Grey Wardens, and experience the events of 'Ostagar'.
Step Three: Begin recruiting armies to your cause. Pause to occasionally complete a side-quest that, more often than not, take minutes. OOOH! EPIC!
Step Four: Take care of Main Baddie number 1.
Step Five: Defeat the Archdemon.

I hate to compare DAO to Elder Scrolls, because they ARE different games... But ES provided me with WEEKS of enjoyment, and that playing one char. DAO was done in a week, and that was 2 playthroughs.

IF this becomes a franchise, and I think it will, just because the sales were high enough, I HOPE MUCH more emphasis is put on story and content nxt time. MUCH, MUCH more.

[padewan0913]

Hehe. I haven't kept up a lot with the DA:O news, but from what I've seen... what has happened I wouldn't call delays. However, I come from the World of Warcraft group too... When DA:O has a 3/4 year delay, let me know about it .



I guess WoW DOES teach something... how to deal with LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG delays in game content XD.

[SphereofSilence]

These two games are different - while Mass Effect is meant to be a cinematic trilogy shooter/RPG, Dragon Age is a full-scale 'old-school' RPG, in what may be a beginning of a long franchise, complete with it's own tool-sets and designed with the modding community in mind.



You have to understand how much Baldur's Gate series meant to many of us, and I suspect, to many of the BW devs. In my mind, BG2 remains one of the greatest games of all time, and till this day, not one game out there came close to surpassing it. While some here might disagree, many here I'm sure share the same view.



I think BW wanted to build a spiritual successor that surpasses the towering height of BG2 of old, and modernize it for the contemporary market.



For a game of this huge scale and ambition, it's no surprise that DAO had many hiccups. You got to remember that ME was a way smaller game. Origins was just the beginning of more to come, give them time and we may yet see the edges smoothen.

[ransompendragon]

I don't see how the topic title relates to the actual post. But to answer all the questions--put me down as no (not revolutionary) and no (should not have been a console to pc, I like it the way it was created) and no (whatever the third thing was).

Mostly I agree with skydiver8888 (although not completely). Ladydesire, DA:O is a linear RPG, at least in my lexicon as there are only 2 kinds -- linear (The Witcher, BG, DAO, etc.) or sandbox (Morrowind, Oblivion, etc). A linear game can still have choices and branches and even 2 or 3 different endings. In DA if you don't follow the story some areas won't open up so you have to do the main quest whereas in Oblivion, say, you never had to do the main quest and could pretty much go anywhere.



I am not interested in console versus pc discussions as they never change anyones mind. I prefer pcs and my PS2 is gathering dust. But gaming goodness, whatever the flavor, I will take it.



I can't yet speak to my final review of DA as I am not yet finished with my first play through at 78 hours played. But I like the game and enjoy getting to "chat" about it and see what weird things other people are thinking.



cheers,

ransom

[T0paze]

Actually, DAO doesn't really excel in anything, except, perhaps, facial animation. And it's certainly not a step forward. If anything, it's a step back, because it in some aspects it's worse than even those games it is believed to be a successor to.

Baldur's Gate had an equally interesting story AND a more open world (of course, it was lacking in some other aspects, such as interaction between party members, but that's not the point here). Baldur's Gate 2 had a better story and superior level design. Music was much better, too, and sidequests, although not too complex, didn't have that specific MMO feel to them. No, actually, let me rephrase that: most sidequests in DAO are utter junk.

The graphics in DAO is, well, nothing out of the ordinary. Not much to say here. And the environment is really a nail in the coffin. I mean, DAO, released a couple of months ago, features a natural environment that is vastly inferior to to TES III, released 8 years ago! It's not even funny.

On the other hand, there are two things I like Bioware for:

1. They're survivors. There have been companies that used to make better games (speaking conceptually), but they're either gone now or don't have much in common with their former self.
2. They tend to make better commercial products. There are some bugs and inconsistencies in their games, but they are usually more polished. Basically, they've kinda found balance between mainstream and innovative gaming - they're either not able or cannot afford doing something really outstanding, but at the same time they manage not to fall below a certain level.

So, while I don't expect another Planescape: Torment, Arcanum or Fallout from Bioware, and I do think that in terms of game design they've been going downhill since BGII, I can expect them to make high-quality products that also happen to be interesting, if not exactly groundbreaking games.

Modifié par T0paze, 07 janvier 2010 - 05:24 .

[Lord Phoebus]

IIRC when the XBox360 was released you could make the equivalent PC for 400$, now it's probably around 200$. PC games are doing quite well, you won't see them in taking up shelf space in the stores, but that's because of digital distribution. The company gets more money per sale from a digital sale than it does from a console sale even though the digital version is cheaper for the consumer. The fact remains even if you buy a console, you still need a PC and the price of cheap PC+Console is greater than the cost of moderate gaming PC. Of course this assumes that you know how to build your PC (which is at about the same level of difficulty as assembling bookshelves from Ikea).

Piracy isn't just a PC problem either, console titles are pirated all the time. The real reason you see consoles being pushed ahead of the PC is Microsoft and Sony make much more money from these platforms than they do from their PCs and they strong arm developers into releasing for these platforms (that price difference in games goes to those companies).

Anyway DA:O is very much a step back as opposed to a step forward. It's a memory of what gaming was as opposed to where it's heading.

Modifié par Lord Phoebus, 07 janvier 2010 - 05:46 .

[Yaafm]

Italics hurts my eyes.

[Nifell]

i game on console and pc. i benifit from both markets. now, my gaming system is this....



windows xp sp3

Processor: Intel® Atom™ CPU N270 @ 1.60GHz (2 CPUs)

Memory: 1524MB RAM



Card name: Mobile Intel® 945 Express Chipset Family

Manufacturer: Intel Corporation

Chip type: Intel® GMA 950

DAC type: Internal

Display Memory: 224.0 MB



now this is something that will and can run wow quite smoothly. will not run dragon ages however.

have a 360 elite that i play da on. given the costs of a decent pc vs 60 bucks, my choice is easy.



granted pc users feel slighted by having to take a product thats not strictly for them, look at what you get compared to console users. tool set, mods, a damn dex patch, is a multi-platform market really a damper on your day? multi-platform gaming may not give you everything you want, but as a company it gives them exactly what they want, money. you dont see a buisness saying "gee, lets start this for fun", it's always with the goal to make money.



random thoughts

[RogueWriter3201]

First, allow me to thank everyone who contributed to my Thread with honest, open, and constructive responses. You are proof positive that this Forum has not completely degenerated into mindless dribble. Now, given some negative responses to the manner in which I implemented the original post, I will endevor to keep this short...although (laugh) I find WhiteRaevans comment about my attempt to "Write a collage essay," somewhat ammusing as his own format and length far exceded my own in implementation complexity.

But, I digress.

To sum up, the core point I believe I was trying to make was my observation that even though I truly do love DA:O I felt as if the game's ultimate potential was stiffled or prevented through poor marketing, tech limitations -i.e. the game's graphics engine- and an almost overzealous amount of censorship. In regards to the latter, I understand the principle idea behind why a company would wish to avoid the dreaded AO rating, but, none the less, I find the whole thing disssapointing. In the end, I would agree that the PC version of DA:O is the better of the three versions, and if in point of fact I did have the financial flexibility to afford a custom PC Rig that could run Dragon Age at it's better settings I might not feel as...harshly as I do about the choice of Bioware to create an IP originaly intended for the PC market alone. Baldur's Gate was an excellent endevor, as was NWN; as such, I can understand Bioware's desire to return to their collective roots, as it were. Lastly, as I do indeed love this game I will continue to purchase future DLCs and the recently confirmed expansion with relative glee, however it is my hope that any future true sequels will not, in my eyes, be held back as Dragon Age: Origins was held back. If allowed to be the game it was truly intended to be, devoid of limitations to it's writers and programming visionaries, the Dragon Age Saga would TRULY redefine the RPG genre as a collective whole. Once more, my thanks to all who contributed or will continue to contribute to this thread. 

[AmstradHero]

T0paze wrote...
The graphics in DAO is, well, nothing out of the ordinary. Not much to say here. And the environment is really a nail in the coffin. I mean, DAO, released a couple of months ago, features a natural environment that is vastly inferior to to TES III, released 8 years ago! It's not even funny.

Natural environment, maybe. Overall graphical quality? Give me Dragon Age any day. Yes, Oblivion is gorgeous, because it uses the Unreal Engine, which is pretty much the best game 3D engine out there.  And if you're playing Dragon Age on the PC with max settings, it looks amazing. And to be honest, I think the majority of the people who are complaining about the graphics aren't looking at the surroundings.  There is a LOT of detail in the environments if you actually open your eyes and aren't focused on blood splatter and sword swings. 

So yes, Oblivion looks good.  But it also has some of the worst voice acting of a AAA RPG title bar Patrick Stewart (who's only in it for a matter of minutes) and Sean Bean.

Is Dragon Age a step backward? Heck no. Dragon Age offers real choice and consequence, which is something that sod all RPGs do to any meaningful degree.

Did Oblivion offer more hours of gameplay? Possibly. Did it offer more hours of GOOD gameplay? No. If I had to think about memorably moments, I'd say portions of the main quest, the Assassin and Thief Guild quest lines, and a few other miscellaneous quests here and there.  There was a lot of Oblivion that wasn't terribly exciting and didn't make me feel involved with my silent protagonist.

Memorable moments in Dragon Age? Well, they were plentiful.  I cared about my character and the choices they made (hey, they actually got to make choices), and I cared about my party members.  I was sad to part with them at the end of the game.  That to me is what makes Dragon Age great.

Is it revolutionary? Possibly not.  Is it one of the best RPGs in years? Most certainly.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 07 janvier 2010 - 08:54 .

[phordicus]

first, there's no way i'd ever get a console game if it were available on PC. modding, whether officially supported or not, is just too big of an advantage for customization and replayability.

there's also the issue of backups. i still have CDs of games from 10+ years ago that, assuming they're not already on my drive, i know i can install and enjoy any time i want because, unlike a console, backing up a PC game is far easier and getting updated software and tweaks to run legacy games is one google search away. with a console, assuming you can manage to make a backup, the hardware and support likely won't be there in 5 years, absolutely not in 10. if it's a good game, i want to keep playing it. can't do that with a console.

[krsboss]

erm, I was just wondering how many people who play DA:O on their 360 / ps3 are also reading and replying to the forums on their console...



...I never played Baldur's Gate, however I first got introduced to Bioware through Neverwinter Nights which I enjoyed for many years, initially due to community built modules, then more from the online community any multiplayer modules...

[SphereofSilence]

glenboy24 wrote...

To sum up, the core point I believe I was trying to make was my observation that even though I truly do love DA:O I felt as if the game's ultimate potential was stiffled or prevented through poor marketing, tech limitations -i.e. the game's graphics engine- and an almost overzealous amount of censorship. In regards to the latter, I understand the principle idea behind why a company would wish to avoid the dreaded AO rating, but, none the less, I find the whole thing disssapointing. In the end, I would agree that the PC version of DA:O is the better of the three versions, and if in point of fact I did have the financial flexibility to afford a custom PC Rig that could run Dragon Age at it's better settings I might not feel as...harshly as I do about the choice of Bioware to create an IP originaly intended for the PC market alone. Baldur's Gate was an excellent endevor, as was NWN; as such, I can understand Bioware's desire to return to their collective roots, as it were. Lastly, as I do indeed love this game I will continue to purchase future DLCs and the recently confirmed expansion with relative glee, however it is my hope that any future true sequels will not, in my eyes, be held back as Dragon Age: Origins was held back. If allowed to be the game it was truly intended to be, devoid of limitations to it's writers and programming visionaries, the Dragon Age Saga would TRULY redefine the RPG genre as a collective whole. Once more, my thanks to all who contributed or will continue to contribute to this thread. 

[/b]

I do agree that the programming and graphics aspect of DAO could use a face lift.   

[Few87]

If anything this game is behind its time.....Which is an absolutely FANTASTIC thing!!

[Asceiron]

Running a 4 year old pc- ****ty ati card. no probs.

this game isnt ahead of its time- nothing in the human world ever will be

[StrangeCat Productions]

OP have you played the Directors Cut of the Witcher?



Anaywayz don't worry about it whatever you want it DAO can just be modded in. Nudity etc.



The Politics of the Game World is a scary thing.

[JPWriting]

BeljoraDien wrote...

...
...
...did you just type "short-cummings"?

Yes, yes he did indeed. I burst out laughing when I read that.

You have to appreciate the humor found on internet forums, especially with these 'you should take me seriously' posts which totally blow it with something like that. It's like a court jester running out in the middle of a funeral and jumping up and down with all his bells making an awful racket. Some people try to ignore it, some don't know quite what to make of it, and some just can't help but laugh at the obsurdity.

I'm one of the ones laughing, because he tried so hard to be serious.... it's a tragic Freudian slip. haha! <_<

Modifié par JPWriting, 07 janvier 2010 - 01:24 .

[Viglin]

krsboss wrote...

erm, I was just wondering how many people who play DA:O on their 360 / ps3 are also reading and replying to the forums on their console...



...I never played Baldur's Gate, however I first got introduced to Bioware through Neverwinter Nights which I enjoyed for many years, initially due to community built modules, then more from the online community any multiplayer modules...

Replying from my Ps3 right now...whats your point?

[fopspeenzuiger]

About the op.
It's good that the game is designed for PC and ported to consoles. It's easier to adjust a full featured game to consoles the other way around. I've had enough of annoying console ports.

About the console versus PC debate.
I'd stick to the price issue. Flavor is personal and both types of platform have their merits. Consoles require far less tech savvyness, while PC's offer better controls, graphics and features.

It's silly to deny that the TCO (total cost of ownership) of a PC is lower than that of a console. However, the diffirence is far less then people would think. A decent PC isn't as expensive as it once was, and with a good strategy is even less over the years.
1. A decent upgrade path. If you invest 100$ a year in your pc (some ram here, new graphics board there, etc...) you can easily stay up to date and get all the goodies that PC's offer. If you'd buy a new console every 3 years this pretty much comes down to the same price with only the initial purchase making a real diffirence. Overclocking, when used right, further extends the usefulness of your hardware past it's due time for replacement.
2. The cost of games on PC is less then consoles. If you buy via a difital distribution channel the diffirence becomes even bigger. For a person buying one game every month this adds up to more then the cost of the upgrade path.
3. It would be completely unfair to put the entire TCO of your PC on games. You also use it for internet access, social networking, email, work/school, encoding/decoding stuff, writing CD's/DVD's, organising pictures, or maybe even retouching them and whatever it is you use your PC for (free porn? ). For me personally, since I'm in IT, gaming is but a fraction of what I use my PC for.
4. Considering point 3, chances are high that you need a PC anyway. To make your normal desktop crap into a proper machine with gaming capacity you only need to add like 300$ or so.

To sum it all up, you pay 300 more then you would have for your pc, which is about the price of a console. You need to invest 100-ish USD a year (if you want to stay bleeding fast make that 200$), but you gain 100+$ a year back on game prices if you buy one game a month. On top of that you gain all the functionality that you want anyway, up to date graphics, better controls (if you really want the thumb action, a good gamepad costs what, 50$?), more features, etc...
Wat do you need? Some knowledge about the inner workings of a PC and windows. This however, seems to be something that most people are lacking.

Personally I own both, cause consoles do have their merits. I like to hang back in my living room while playing on a TV next to the one my GF is watching, and god of war made playstations a must-have imo