182 réponses à ce sujet

[Sparbiter]

For those that don't care to read the stats, the TLDR version is at the bottom in BOLD

Usually, a crusader thread will devolve into a creation based on this response:

"The Crusader is an awesome gun! I routinely get top score with it"

even though:

1. You never see it public matches
2. There are no Youtube videos of anybody "owning" with it.
3. It's never been a subject of "omg please bioware nerf"

Hopefully, the use of hard stats will keep this thread from going in that direction.

Let's just start with the subject itself:

The Crusader at level X
788.4 damage
2.0 Weight
30 capacity
1.50 second reload


Let's look as some of its "peers"

The claymore is the only shotgun in its weight class (2.0). It's not a favorable comparison at all.

A level X claymore can do more than double damage (1600+).
A level I claymore does almost double damage (1342).

But the Crusader has more shots? A fair point.

How about the Wraith. Another comparison that isn't pretty.
A level I Wraith will do over 940 damage.
At level X, it will do 1176.

It's the same story for all the shotguns, the Raider, Claymore, Wraith. Even the Piranha can almost match the Crusader shot for shot (616.8 at level X)

The next logical argument is that I shouldn't compare them to shotguns. The Crusader is really more of a scopeless sniper. Alright. I'll indulge that thought.


Some of its "sniper" brethren.

The black Widow meets its weight class (2.0 at level X)
A level I black Widow will do 739, which is almost the damage of the Crusader at X. At level X, the black widow handily dispatches the Crusader, with 923.8 damage.

A level I Mantis does 738.7. At X, it does 886. That's a common weapon that for some reason got a god buff, and it does more damage than the crusader?

The Krysae, a sore subject because of the massive nerf it took, does 616.8 at X. However, it does AOE damage, weighs much less, and is less rare.

Maybe the Valiant is the closest relative to the Crusader. It's another promo weapon, it has 3 shots.... It does 515.5 damage at X. However, it also weighs 1.00, has a faster ROF, not nearly the recoil or bad hit detection, some more spare ammo.

Or perhaps the Saber is the best counterpart. It does 575 at X, has the same rate of fire. However, it also weighs a ton less, has double the clip size, and almost double the spare ammo.


What's the point? Well, the TLDR version

The Crusader is just too damn heavy. Only a handful of classes use the 2.0 weight weapons, and they have much better options. Why would an N7 Destroyer take the Crusader over the black widow?

The 2.0+ weight weapons (claymore, BW, Typhoon, Javelin, Widow, Crusader)... which one doesn't belong?

Add in the bad hit detection, the auto-aim assist problem on consoles, the meager weight to damage ratio..... you have a dust collector. Cut it's weight in half. You don't have to increase the damage at all. It's an UR promo weapon; there's no excuse for it not to perform like one. Heck, you could even LOWER the damage if you had to, but right now, it's a heavy weapon without enough punch that sees little use.

[Hymmnos]

I'm sure it would be used more often if it didn't weigh as much as a brute.

[Sparbiter]

Hymmnos wrote...

I'm sure it would be used more often if it didn't weigh as much as a brute.

Exactly. IMO, the classes that can deal with a missed shot from the poor hit detection are those that utilize powers.

I'm not saying make it weigh as much as the Predator, but at least let the casters have a chance with this thing.

[BurningLiquor]

Hymmnos wrote...

I'm sure it would be used more often if it didn't weigh as much as a brute.

More like an Atlas, I'd say.

[Topographer]

I like it on a Turian Sentinel, but It's needlessly heavy no doubt about it.

[GriM_AoD]

Tis kinda fun to use I guess. Decent RoF. Quick reload.
But yes - a tad heavy

[STRANGE10VE]

So what your saying is that it's too heavy. I would agree with that. It's still a good gun.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Just fix the aim/lag thingy and it'll own.

[Sparbiter]

STRANGE10VE wrote...

So what your saying is that it's too heavy. I would agree with that. It's still a good gun.

I think so. I don't top any scoreboards with it (I'm not that great), but it still functions. You just have to forgo better options and put it on a no cooldown class.

If it weighed a LOT less, it wouldn't be a God gun; it'd be a versatile good gun.

[megabeast37215]

I outscored Ashen Earth and Biggs in a Gold game using a Crusader VI (I'm a scrub compared to those guys)... it can't be all that bad.

If you use it as a close range shotgun, hipfiring it like you do the Raider... it actually works really freakin good. On an Infiltrator with Phasic rounds, I've been able to OSK shielded enemies with it... it also takes to wall hacking with a GI very well.

All the long range stuff is a bonus IMO. It takes a second to line up good long range shots with it... but what other shotgun can do that? Very few, if any. When I say "long range shots" I mean out of the Array on Dagger and into the spawns, or across Hydra.

I think alot of people get hung up on trying to make every shot hit... just put it in the enemy's face and let it rip as fast as you can.... it'll surprise you.

It could use a SLIGHT weight reduction. Weapons that have that kind of power/range aren't going to give you +150% recharge rate...

Modifié par megabeast37215, 21 décembre 2012 - 04:05 .

[DeadeyeCYclops]

I still wouldn't use it even if it weighed less, so do what you want with it lol

[Nissun]

1 - It's bad

2 - Weights a ton

3 - Makes a pathetic noise

4 - Has issues about the projectile not hitting the target correctly, as if it were a lag-affected weapon like the GPS or Graal.



It's a pity, because it looks cool. Hell, if it made a better noise, it would even be acceptable to use on bronze and silver.

[Credit2team]

I agree its a bit too heavy

[Sparbiter]

megabeast37215 wrote...

I outscored Ashen Earth and Biggs in a Gold game using a Crusader VI (I'm a scrub compared to those guys)... it can't be all that bad.

If you use it as a close range shotgun, hipfiring it like you do the Raider... it actually works really freakin good. On an Infiltrator with Phasic rounds, I've been able to OSK shielded enemies with it... it also takes to wall hacking with a GI very well.

All the long range stuff is a bonus IMO. It takes a second to line up good long range shots with it... but what other shotgun can do that? Very few, if any. When I say "long range shots" I mean out of the Array on Dagger and into the spawns, or across Hydra.

I think alot of people get hung up on trying to make every shot hit... just put it in the enemy's face and let it rip as fast as you can.... it'll surprise you.

It could use a SLIGHT weight reduction. Weapons that have that kind of power/range aren't going to give you +150% recharge rate...

I don't disagree, but my point was that it is ONLY useable on those no cooldown classes, and there are better options if you're going to play a GI, a TGI, a Drell INF,  or a Destroyer, to name a few.

It's too heavy.

[Kalas Magnus]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Just fix the aim/lag thingy and it'll own.

[megabeast37215]

Sparbiter wrote...

I don't disagree, but my point was that it is ONLY useable on those no cooldown classes, and there are better options if you're going to play a GI, a TGI, a Drell INF,  or a Destroyer, to name a few.

It's too heavy.

People on PC put a Claymore on anything with two legs... weight can't be that big of an issue.

I wanna try it on the Drell Adept...

[Datdude1970]

I agree with your premise, and always nice to have the data to support it. I think one hidden benefit of the Crusader is that it pierces light cover, other than that, agreed that the weapon is way outclassed by Shotgun/SR peers.....would much rather play the M358-Talon if I want a gun that behaves like a weapon from another class....I believe I pulled it out for the 140,000 points I needed for Shotgun Mastery....ended up using the smart choke on it and playing it as a SR.....have used it as a doorstop since....so yeah, what is the point of this gun?

[Sable Dove]

Why compare it to the BW? Why not just take both. Crusader doesn't have a hipfire penalty or an obnoxious scope.

But yes, it's too heavy. Only Infiltrators and a couple other classes can even take it.

[Sparbiter]

Kalas321 wrote...

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Just fix the aim/lag thingy and it'll own.

This is a tough topic. The devs have said this is only a visual effect (though they admit you have to lead fast moving targets).

There are many who swear it doesn't exist or affect the gun.

I just know that sometimes when I'm in a solo game and I snap off a perfectly aimed shot, it doesn't hit.

It has a lot of bad qualities you don't want in a game:

1. Inconsistent hit detection (for whatever reason)
2. very high recoil coupled with a fairly slow ROF
3. Horrendous weight.

In almost 9 months, the only thing addressed about this gun was the damage, and I feel that it wasn't a proper fix.

[KelbornX]

Honestly, I'd say to reduce the weight to 1.5 and up the damage to 960 at rank X. Then it'll give the Wraith a run for it's money (more shots per clip and higher accuracy for long range). I like the Crusader, but I definitely feel it needs some work done on it.

Right now I use it on classes that I don't care about weight (Destroyer, MQE, Krogan Soldier, etc) and still want something that can function at long range. Unlike the comparable sniper rifles, you can hipfire it with no damage penalty and you don't get the FoV restrictions that the scopes give (#1 reason why I'm so bad at sniping, not to mention I suck at quick-scoping).

[Sparbiter]

KelbornX wrote...

Honestly, I'd say to reduce the weight to 1.5 and up the damage to 960 at rank X. Then it'll give the Wraith a run for it's money (more shots per clip and higher accuracy for long range). I like the Crusader, but I definitely feel it needs some work done on it.

Right now I use it on classes that I don't care about weight (Destroyer, MQE, Krogan Soldier, etc) and still want something that can function at long range. Unlike the comparable sniper rifles, you can hipfire it with no damage penalty and you don't get the FoV restrictions that the scopes give (#1 reason why I'm so bad at sniping, not to mention I suck at quick-scoping).

That buff would make it statistically outperform the black widow, which I think is asking too much. There's still the recoil and hit detection issues, but I don't think difficulty of use has ever been a factor in the balance changes.

There's a lot of easy ways to go about it, imo, without messing with the damage balance.

Drop the weight into the 1.0-1.2 range, and you wouldn't have to do anything else. Power based classes could use it if they took weight reduction bonuses.

I think it needs to lose at least 0.6 weight, though. It's retarded to have it compete with the claymore, javelin, and black widow.

I will say this. If you've got an atlas in your face, it's nice to use the Crusader. Your shots can't miss and the atlas goes down quickly. It's a lot different when you're trying to zero in on a cartwheeling phantom, though.

Modifié par Sparbiter, 21 décembre 2012 - 04:22 .

[megabeast37215]

Sparbiter wrote...
I think it needs to lose at least 0.6 weight, though. It's retarded to have it compete with the claymore, javelin, and black widow.

Put it on an Infiltrator and go attack an Atlas, then come back and tell me it doesn't compete with those guns. It actually outclasses the Claymore for boss killing considerably.

[Blarg]

I like it right now, but I won't complain about a buff.

[Sparbiter]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Sparbiter wrote...
I think it needs to lose at least 0.6 weight, though. It's retarded to have it compete with the claymore, javelin, and black widow.

Put it on an Infiltrator and go attack an Atlas, then come back and tell me it doesn't compete with those guns. It actually outclasses the Claymore for boss killing considerably.

The atlas is a giant target. It's impossible to miss, and they really aren't that bulky.

Reload canceling with the claymore will yield far better results than any form of the Crusader against most bosses.

[megabeast37215]

Sparbiter wrote...
The atlas is a giant target. It's impossible to miss, and they really aren't that bulky.

Reload canceling with the claymore will yield far better results than any form of the Crusader against most bosses.

Actually.. it won't. The Claymore is affected more by armor due to the fact that it has multiple pellets.

I'm really starting to believe you don't have that much trigger time on the weapon.