182 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashen One]

megabeast37215 wrote...

I outscored Ashen Earth and Biggs in a Gold game using a Crusader VI (I'm a scrub compared to those guys)... it can't be all that bad.

THE SCOREBOARD IS EVERYTHING.

[Elecbender]

Is it?

There's a lot of stuff you are not accounting for...

A lot of it is in practice which of course you're dismissing.

[megabeast37215]

Ashen Earth wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

I outscored Ashen Earth and Biggs in a Gold game using a Crusader VI (I'm a scrub compared to those guys)... it can't be all that bad.

THE SCOREBOARD IS EVERYTHING.

Damn straight!

It is the end-all be-all of ME3 MP...

There is the guy who topped scoreboard... and then there are his underlings.

[Sparbiter]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Sparbiter wrote...
The atlas is a giant target. It's impossible to miss, and they really aren't that bulky.

Reload canceling with the claymore will yield far better results than any form of the Crusader against most bosses.

Actually.. it won't. The Claymore is affected more by armor due to the fact that it has multiple pellets.

I'm really starting to believe you don't have that much trigger time on the weapon.

I won't dismiss your opinion (I even stated that the Crusader was good at killing Atlas). But to counter my argument for a weight decrease with "Oh, yeah! Well, go put it on an infiltrator and kill the biggest joke boss unit in the game with it!" doesn't do much for me. Sorry, don't mean to be rude, but most infiltrators have a sniper damage boost in their tac cloak evolution. Black Widow vs Crusader in this scenario doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

The claymore doesn't have an armor damage penalty, like the Reegar, if that's what you are trying to say. Both the Crusader and Claymore have a 1.0 multiplier against armor.

Regardless, the thread isn't about the claymore. It's about the weight of the Crusader.

[Amnesiotic]

I came in here expecting to see "By the other Sniper Rifles."

[Sparbiter]

Elecbender wrote...

Is it?

There's a lot of stuff you are not accounting for...

A lot of it is in practice which of course you're dismissing.

I don't believe I dismissed the skill factor. However, it IS pretty irrelevant when we're talking about the weight of the gun.

Reducing the weight won't affect the player's skill with the weapon. It will just let more classes use it.

[Ashen One]

Sparbiter wrote...

The claymore doesn't have an armor damage penalty, like the Reegar, if that's what you are trying to say. Both the Crusader and Claymore have a 1.0 multiplier against armor.

The Claymore fires 8 pellets, and each pellet loses 50 damage to enemy armor. A Claymore firing a single shot is penalized 8 times, whereas a Crusader is penalized once because it only fires one projectile.

[Vargras]

>Crusader
>comparing Crusader to other shotguns

You realize that it's more of a sniper rifle than a shotgun, right?

[cdzander]

I can kill things with a Crusader that I can't with a Claymore...because they are too far away. It has that advantage over all other shotguns. Range.

I do agree it could lose some weight though.

[megabeast37215]

Sparbiter wrote...
I won't dismiss your opinion (I even stated that the Crusader was good at killing Atlas). But to counter my argument for a weight decrease with "Oh, yeah! Well, go put it on an infiltrator and kill the biggest joke boss unit in the game with it!" doesn't do much for me. Sorry, don't mean to be rude, but most infiltrators have a sniper damage boost in their tac cloak evolution. Black Widow vs Crusader in this scenario doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

The claymore doesn't have an armor damage penalty, like the Reegar, if that's what you are trying to say. Both the Crusader and Claymore have a 1.0 multiplier against armor.

Regardless, the thread isn't about the claymore. It's about the weight of the Crusader.

I agree with you that it could use a weight decrease, and posted as much. I think it belongs in the same weight class as the Harrier/Graal/GPS/Kishock... or perhaps a bit heavier.

It's also good at killing anything else with armor, except maybe Dragoons due to them being so fast. It eats Banshees up.

The reason I brought up the Claymore vs Bosses is that each pellet loses 50 damage, which translates into 300 lost for 6 pellets and 400 lost for 8, where the Crusader only loses 50... and has a much higher ROF + better reload. I forgot exactly how many pellets the Claymore fires...

People just don't fire the gun fast enough IMO... they try to make every shot count.

[megabeast37215]

Vargras wrote...

>Crusader
>comparing Crusader to other shotguns

You realize that it's more of a sniper rifle than a shotgun, right?

This is where people go wrong with the Crusader...

Use it like the Raider... CQC hipfiring as fast as you can. All the long range stuff is a bonus...

[Sparbiter]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Sparbiter wrote...

The claymore doesn't have an armor damage penalty, like the Reegar, if that's what you are trying to say. Both the Crusader and Claymore have a 1.0 multiplier against armor.

The Claymore fires 8 pellets, and each pellet loses 50 damage to enemy armor. A Claymore firing a single shot is penalized 8 times, whereas a Crusader is penalized once because it only fires one projectile.

Oh, I see. You're talking about the natural armor damage resistance.

So the Claymore would lose 400 damage against armor, while the Crusader loses only 50.

Still, the Claymore would do something like 1200 damage vs the Crusader's 700, right?

Either way, I think that's straying from the topic of the Crusader's weight. And in any case, I conceded (actually brought it up) that the Crusader is good against the atlas (or other armored units that aren't backflipping all over the place)

[Elecbender]

Sparbiter wrote...

Elecbender wrote...

Is it?

There's a lot of stuff you are not accounting for...

A lot of it is in practice which of course you're dismissing.

I don't believe I dismissed the skill factor. However, it IS pretty irrelevant when we're talking about the weight of the gun.

Reducing the weight won't affect the player's skill with the weapon. It will just let more classes use it.

No not that.

Mods.
Reload speed.
Extra benefits the weapon gets (no hipfire penalty, free AP).
Etc.

Oh and tell me, would you honestly use the Javelin on any non-Infiltrator class like you would the Harrier?  Technically its bad too if you're restricting it to one class.  By this the Valiant, Typhoon, Krysae, etc are terrible too.

[Sparbiter]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Sparbiter wrote...
I won't dismiss your opinion (I even stated that the Crusader was good at killing Atlas). But to counter my argument for a weight decrease with "Oh, yeah! Well, go put it on an infiltrator and kill the biggest joke boss unit in the game with it!" doesn't do much for me. Sorry, don't mean to be rude, but most infiltrators have a sniper damage boost in their tac cloak evolution. Black Widow vs Crusader in this scenario doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

The claymore doesn't have an armor damage penalty, like the Reegar, if that's what you are trying to say. Both the Crusader and Claymore have a 1.0 multiplier against armor.

Regardless, the thread isn't about the claymore. It's about the weight of the Crusader.

I agree with you that it could use a weight decrease, and posted as much. I think it belongs in the same weight class as the Harrier/Graal/GPS/Kishock... or perhaps a bit heavier.

It's also good at killing anything else with armor, except maybe Dragoons due to them being so fast. It eats Banshees up.

The reason I brought up the Claymore vs Bosses is that each pellet loses 50 damage, which translates into 300 lost for 6 pellets and 400 lost for 8, where the Crusader only loses 50... and has a much higher ROF + better reload. I forgot exactly how many pellets the Claymore fires...

People just don't fire the gun fast enough IMO... they try to make every shot count.

I fully agree with this. Honestly, when someone says "Bosses" my first thought is "phantoms" and that's where I was going with the claymore.

Firing the gun fast comes at a price as well, though. 30-34 shots isn't that many before you have to scurry to an ammo crate.

[doozerdude]

All shotguns are... *poketh Claymore*

[Miniditka77]

OP, you're focusing too much on damage per shot.  The Crusader has absolutely no problem in the damage department, and it's actually one of the best sustained damage guns in the game, especially at long range.  The sustained DPS of the Crusader is FAR higher than the Claymore if you're not reload cancelling.  And if you are reload cancelling, the Crusader still does more sustained DPS than the Claymore - and it has pretty much infinite range. 

The Crusader has only two problems: weight and its odd firing mechanics.  And even the weight isn't that big of a deal compared to the firing mechanics.  If the Crusader was as easy to use as the Saber, it would probably be all over the place in lobbies, even up to Platinum.  A weight reduction would be preferable though.

[Steppdaddy2]

No sniper rail amps left?

Use a crusader.

[Sparbiter]

Elecbender wrote...

Sparbiter wrote...

Elecbender wrote...

Is it?

There's a lot of stuff you are not accounting for...

A lot of it is in practice which of course you're dismissing.

I don't believe I dismissed the skill factor. However, it IS pretty irrelevant when we're talking about the weight of the gun.

Reducing the weight won't affect the player's skill with the weapon. It will just let more classes use it.

No not that.

Mods.
Reload speed.
Extra benefits the weapon gets (no hipfire penalty, free AP).
Etc.

Oh and tell me, would you honestly use the Javelin on any non-Infiltrator class like you would the Harrier?  Technically its bad too if you're restricting it to one class.  By this the Valiant, Typhoon, Krysae, etc are terrible too.

It's a fair point. Obviously the Crusader's lack of hipfire penalty is a big plus.

I'm not sure what you mean by restricting it to one class, honestly. The Crusader is naturally restricted to one arch-type: classes that don't hate cooldown times. A weight decrease would allow other classes to use it without becoming handicapped.

I wasn't trying to pin the weapon to one set of users, I was trying to open it up to other sets, if that makes any sense at all.

[Ashen One]

As much as I complain about constantly getting Crusader upgrades in my commendation packs, it's actually a decent weapon after all of the buffs.

[Sparbiter]

Miniditka77 wrote...

OP, you're focusing too much on damage per shot.  The Crusader has absolutely no problem in the damage department.....
The Crusader has only two problems: weight and its odd firing mechanics.  And even the weight isn't that big of a deal compared to the firing mechanics.  If the Crusader was as easy to use as the Saber, it would probably be all over the place in lobbies, even up to Platinum.  A weight reduction would be preferable though.

Right, I did come to the conclusion that the damage of the gun itself was fine, and I suggested no change to damage. My only gripe was with the weight (I have a long-standing gripe against the firing mechanic, but that has gone unnoticed)

Modifié par Sparbiter, 21 décembre 2012 - 04:57 .

[Elecbender]

I'm tired of posting.

Since the general consensus is that its too heavy I can't fight the majority late at night. Though this leaves an interesting situation with the Saber...

[megabeast37215]

Sparbiter wrote...
I fully agree with this. Honestly, when someone says "Bosses" my first thought is "phantoms" and that's where I was going with the claymore.

Firing the gun fast comes at a price as well, though. 30-34 shots isn't that many before you have to scurry to an ammo crate.

Phantoms!! Glorified shielded mooks.... they can be troublesome, but when they get in CQC hipfire range, the Crusader dispatches them nicely. If there's any enemy the Crusader struggles with it a Nemesis... that byatch is pretty tricky to hit.

I'm not worried about ammo... ammo is very easy to come by. I'm not camping, so I'll just go get some. If it really becomes a problem... thermal clip pack, my least used consumable.

[BattleCop88]

Kalas321 wrote...

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Just fix the aim/lag thingy and it'll own.

QFT. I love the concept but I hate the fake projectile speed. It's a Hitscan weapon for Pete's sake.

[Docwagon1776]

Lack of hip fire penalty, the availability of a melee damage mod, it has its uses. Krogan soldier can make good use of it, for example. Any class that's going to get up close and slug it out, especially against an armor heavy/shield light faction.

[Flambirex]

Lack of hip fire penalty is a major positive. I think it's better than the Sabre to be honest (although I do have a Crusader VIII, compared to a Sabre IV).