38 réponses à ce sujet

[Uhh.. Jonah]

One thing I hated about Dragon Age 2 was the rushed introduction. The game opens up with Hawke running for his life, and in a matter of 5 minutes after that your sibling dies a terrible death. I know many people disliked the death, but you know what would have made it slightly less horrible? If we actually got to spend some time in Lothering beforehand, having us get to know Hawke's family and such. 

Imagine that in the Human Noble origin the game starts with your warden waking up to find out their castle is being attacked, or in the City Elf origin you wake up in the castle. To me, it is the introduction to the characters and the protagonist that makes these origins so great. 

In case no one can grasp the concept I'm trying to explain, here are some games that I think have great openings:

• Fable
• Fable 2
• Fable 3
• Mass Effect (Only the first game)
• Most of TLoZ games- these openings really exemplify the concept
• Pokemon Diamond and Pearl

In short, I am hoping Dragon Age 3 does not rush us into the action so quickly and in turn give us some time to settle in. Thoughts? 

[Celene II]

Its well known that some people (the people that arent RPG fans ie shooter fans) need something to happen with in the first 5 minutes or they become bored and quit.

I remember that specifically from a DA2 interview.

[Uhh.. Jonah]

Celene II wrote...

Its well known that some people (the people that arent RPG fans ie shooter fans) need something to happen with in the first 5 minutes or they become bored and quit.

I remember that specifically from a DA2 interview.

Yet TLoZ games are extremely popular. I feel like it can be done. I mean, there can be action, just as long as we are still in that introduction (Like in the Wind Waker when Link fights that old dude).

[thats1evildude]

The Dalish origin begins with having to fight pass wolves and walking corpses to get to the broken Eluvian and the Mage origin begins with a trip to the Harrowing and battles with demons.

The Action Prologue is a pretty common device.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 21 décembre 2012 - 05:29 .

[Uhh.. Jonah]

thats1evildude wrote...

The Dalish origin begins with having to fight pass wolves and walking corpses to get to the broken Eluvian and the Mage origin begins with a trip to the Fade and battles with demons.

Exactly why I didn't refrence those two origins. I don't think they are necessarily bad, though. 

[Uhh.. Jonah]

thats1evildude wrote...

The Action Prologue is a pretty common device.

Let me rephrase. I do not mind a little action, just as long as it is not the only thing that happens. That concept is something I can agree with.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

You can't argue that the opening to ME2 wasn't incredible. It was. But it made more sense to be thrust right into the action since it was the same character in the same story. With DA2 it was a little out of place because we didn't know these people yet. Sure we can say "Oh he/she lost his/her sibling. How awful." But we don't really feel it because we don't know who he is really.

In Origins the Human Noble Origin, for example, introduced to the characters and gave us ample time to talk with them and interact with them. Than when the Couslands die we feel that sense of pain and urge to get revenge on Howe. Which to this day still remains one of my most favorite plot devices of that game.

The point of bringing up the two different openers of Origins and ME2 is that the opener should be different depending on what the setting is like. In the case of DA2 it would've benefited from some more build up and understanding.

[Uhh.. Jonah]

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

You can't argue that the opening to ME2 wasn't incredible. It was. But it made more sense to be thrust right into the action since it was the same character in the same story. With DA2 it was a little out of place because we didn't know these people yet. Sure we can say "Oh he/she lost his/her sibling. How awful." But we don't really feel it because we don't know who he is really.

In Origins the Human Noble Origin, for example, introduced to the characters and gave us ample time to talk with them and interact with them. Than when the Couslands die we feel that sense of pain and urge to get revenge on Howe. Which to this day still remains one of my most favorite plot devices of that game.

The point of bringing up the two different openers of Origins and ME2 is that the opener should be different depending on what the setting is like. In the case of DA2 it would've benefited from some more build up and understanding.

Completely agree. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Absafraginlootly]

Yes! One of the big things that I missed about Origins was the introductions they gave you to the game.

They all had a kind of 3 part thing going on.

The Introduction - where you get introduced to the world, learn about the characters around you, shape your own char and learn the basics of fighting. Generally everything that happens before The Catatrophe. 

The Catatrophe - where something goes wrong eg. Howe attacks castle, female elves kidnapped, brother betrays you, Tamlen touches the mirror, your revealed to be posing as a noble, Jowan's going to be made Tranquil.

The (fighty dramatic end bit that I can't think of a good name for) - Not necesarily the first time you fight but instead how you deal with the consequences of The Catatrophe. The Mage origin and the Dalish origin both have fighting early on but in the fade your still talking to people/spirits and learning about the world and in the Dalish ruins your still dicovering things and learning/talking with Tamlen (plus they both have parts between these fights and The Catatrophe). So I don't really consider them the same as The (fighty dramatic end bit that I can't think of a good name for) anymore then I consider the Human Noble killing rats in the pantry and the Dwarf Noble deciding to fight in the Proving ground the same.

eg. fighting to escape Howe, fighting to escape noble, fighting to escape the deeproads..., trying to find and rescue Tamlen, fighting to escape Beraht, fighting to help Jowan get what he need's to escape AND Hawke fighting to escape the darkspawn/lothering. 
Hawke kinda missed out on the first 2 parts.

I enjoyed this way of begining a game very much so I hope that Dragon Age III: Inquisition has this or similiar to this.

Modifié par Absafraginlootly, 21 décembre 2012 - 06:15 .

[Dabrikishaw]

I don't see what else can be said in this topic. No one liked how DA2 opened, everyone agrees on the prologue needing time to interact with you origin as well as action combat. This thread is pretty done.

[thats1evildude]

Dabrikishaw wrote...

I don't see what else can be said in this topic. No one liked how DA2 opened, everyone agrees on the prologue needing time to interact with you origin as well as action combat. This thread is pretty done.

*Holds up hand*

I liked DA2's intro. As I've argued in the past, I already knew most of the events that lead up to Hawke's story — the defeat at Ostagar and the destruction of Lothering. I liked jumping into it with both feet running.

I should note that, while you may say an action-heavy beginning is a bad thing, I would note that the current Game of the Year jumps to action within about five minutes. It takes only enough time to establish that Lee is a convicted murderer, but little other information is shared before Lee is thrust in the middle of a zombie apocalypse.

I would also note that a slow beginning never helped any of the Fable games to be any good. 

Modifié par thats1evildude, 21 décembre 2012 - 07:01 .

[Monica21]

I'm not sure I'd call the DA2 beginning quite an action prologue. It starts with Varric being dragged down a hall and beginning the interrogation with Cassandra. The interrogation leads to the story which leads to the battle scene which then leads to the real story. Anyone who played DAO was familiar with the events that led to the Hawke family on the run.

No, I didn't know anything about my brother before he died, but what did I need to know? What did I need to know about Aveline's husband? It's a bit different than say, the HN origin or even the Dalish origin. Your family keeps popping up in the story whether it's through other people mentioning the Couslands or Bryce showing up in the Gauntlet. Even in the Dalish origin you remember the elf you lost because he shows up later as a shriek. (Sorry, can't remember his name.) If Carver dies, he's not mentioned except for a line of dialogue from mom and Bethany.

All that said, I didn't particularly like the beginning of DA2, but mostly because the only thing that had an impact on the rest of the game was Flemeth's appearance, and not the relationships you had built with your family. I don't think that having a prologue with less action would necessarily have changed all that.

[Direwolf0294]

The calm before the storm is always my favourite part of a story, so I love it when video games take time to ease us into the conflict. That's why I loved the origin stories in DA:O so much and why I'm so disappointed they're not a part of DA3.

[xsdob]

I don't get wanting to have a dragged out introduction with no real point. I mean, I loved the mage origin, and I didn't like the human noble origin, but I don't consider either of those the proluge, but rather the part right up until you fight at ostigar the prolouge or opening.

Same with DA2, I don't consider the origin or prolouge over in a story until hawke and his family make it into the city and begin looking for work in the city.

Maybe I just have a different view on what a prolouge is or isn't, but ME1's opening doesn't end until you reach the beacon at edan prime, and that had plenty of action in it and still worked well. In fact, most of the introduction part of ME1 is fighting, with about 3 or 4 minutes actually being the "slow talking to establish things" the OP seems to be talking about.

[atum]

I dont see the problem. This is like coke vs pepsi.

DAO=context, then action.
DA2=action, then context.

Varric's narration was great. Especially his 'interpretation' of Bethany....


I just hope they start it in whatever way fits. ME2 was like this as well and it was an excellent intro.

Mixing up the story telling and timeline is good writing. How cliche to think games should always start the same way.

Of all the things that were wrong with DA2, this was definitely not one of them (IMHO).

[YHillo]

I'm guessing that one of the things that made DA2 begin the way it did was that there would probably have been need for a different beginning for a mage Hawke and a warrior/rogue Hawke since a mage Hawke never actually went to Ostagar with Carver. (Also making Ostagar all over again would have been a waste of resources since it was already done in Origins.)

I suppose it could have begun in like Lothering or something and then Carver & Hawke / Carver leaves for Ostagar and a cinematic happens yadda yadda. Which could have been good I suppose. Except the whole "been there done this" part.

Anyway, I really liked the way Origins handled things. I would hope for something similar to happen, but I am going to guess that DA:I is going to go more or less the DA2 route when it comes to the beginning of the game. Not that I'm going to be crying crocodile tears over that or anything, since I liked the way DA2 started as well. But prove me wrong Bioware! Mix them both up and make an intro that everyone will love.

[Gazardiel]

I liked the different style in DA2; given that DA:O had the heavy lifting of introducing the world and overall story, it makes sense that DA2 didn't necessarily need to do that. It may have been a bit disorienting for people who didn't play through DA:O (and so didn't know what Lothering was, or what darkspawn were), but it's a valid "hook" narrative device.

[Plaintiff]

You mean like how DA2 opened us up to the world of Kirkwall by requiring the player to do several missions around town before progressing to the next act?

The developers probably chose not to show pre-Blight Lothering because they'd explored the location fully in Origins.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 21 décembre 2012 - 09:34 .

[Maria Caliban]

**Nevermind**

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 21 décembre 2012 - 10:16 .

[Medhia Nox]

@Plaintiff: They explored a town with three total buildings I could enter - "fully"? I'm not sure that's accurate - but it's true that they did "not" explore it further.

Many video game RPGs haven't moved passed combat as filler - Bioware is hardly alone in this.

I think it's antiquated storytelling - but people still seem to like it, so why change what works for the majority.

[Arppis]

Damn, too bad they can't just not give a damn about the people who want action extreme right off the bat.