39 réponses à ce sujet

[Nphect]

Again, there must be millions of these posts, but I just need some clarification since a lot of people vary their builds to cater to their playing style.

1) If I choose to not rely on Wynne (Desecrate the Urn, Kill her in the Tower, just not use her in my main party), should I just play AW / SH and get Group Heal and basically become a Mage Tank / Paladin?

2) Is there a good guideline for spells / talents I should grab at each level if I play AW / BM? I understand that Coercion is pretty much amazing and that the glyphs are fantastic but outside of those along with a few others, there are a ton of extra points I can spend on whatever

3) Using AW, should I just put 18 in Dex for Hard mode and dump most of my points into Magic / Willpower and use the Fade to help out with Cunning so I can get Master Coercion 

4) If there is a thread that would answer these questions, could you link it?

 

[Ethical Scabs]

When I do what you intend, I plan on investing in the Hex line; apparently it causes major threat, and can be used to great effect with a powerful staff and high Magic (which you'll already have for AW); that way you can not only tank/heal/magify, but you can become a magical archer as well.

[Ieldra]

(1) Spirit Healer is a good specialization for any mage to have, even if, or especially if, you don't want to learn any regular healing spells. Arcane Warrior also is a very good specialisation for any mage to have, even if you never use anything but mage equipment. The reason is "Shimmering Shield", which is extremely useful. That way, your mage won't be a frontline tank, but the huge bonus to all resistances makes her take a lot less damage from enemy special attacks, even from thrown boulders, Revenants' pull ability and suchlike. If you want a tanklike mage but stay more like a mage and not like a warrior, this is the way to go.

(2) I can't say anything about Blood Mages, because I don't play them. But if you're an Arcane Warrior and plan to use swords instead of staffs, there are spells you can cast while having a sword in your hand, and others where you must switch to staff or bare hands before being able to cast them. An Arcane Warrior with a sword will prefer the former, of course. You can find a list of such spells here.
Apart from that, the only fix rule I'd give is to learn enough disabling spells. Damage can be done by everyone, but disabling for longer than one or two seconds usually needs a mage. My most powerful build was a staff-using, robe-wearing mage with these spells:

Arcane Warrior 3
Spirit Healer 2
Mage 4
Primal 0-2-3-0
Creation 0-0-3-1
Spirit 0-4-4-4
Entropy 0-0-0-0

(3) Any mage who does not plan to use swords to attack doesn't need Dexterity. That's the reason why I personally prefer Arcane Warriors to keep mage weapons.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 janvier 2010 - 10:02 .

[Sarielle]

I dunno...I just started so noob alert, but my arcane warrior can still play mage-y in the warden set. I set up my glyphs,/buffs maybe an AoE depending on the fight, and then cast my maintains and melee it up.

She was a spirit healer first...incidentally it drains your mana pretty fast but the healing aura generates massive aggro, so you can generate plenty of threat if you want to.

EDIT: You can download a mod to prevent the issues with casting some spells with your sword out. clickie

Modifié par Sarielle, 06 janvier 2010 - 10:16 .

[termokanden]

My personal opinion on AW is still that they are cheesy, and that the survivability is not really needed.



You can get a super-powerful mage/healer by going for Blood Mage/Spirit Healer. If you're not using Wynne, I would suggest grabbing Heal as one of your first spells and taking Spirit Healer at level 7 for group heal. Blood Mage doesn't get particularly useful before level 14 anyway.



With just Heal and Group Heal, you have replaced most of what Wynne could do. You then have the choice of going for Regeneration and Lifeward also. They're good, but it'll cost you two points for each.



As for other good spells to have, these are ones I would always take:



- Fireball. It's fun, it's CC, it's huge damage.

- Glyph of Paralysis, Warding, Repulsion. They are all useful, and paralysis and repulsion together give you an area effect stun.

- Blood Wound. The best CC in the game. But you can only get it relatively late in the game.

- Vulnerability Hex. Just a nice boost for doing damage to bosses.

- Force Field. One mage in your party should always have this for emergiencies. Doesn't matter which mage, and you really only need one Force Field at a time, but you do need it.



There are plenty of threads talking about good spells to take. But I promise you that the ones I mention above are an extremely good basis, and these points will never be wasted.

[Sarielle]

termokanden wrote...

My personal opinion on AW is still that they are cheesy, and that the survivability is not really needed.

I just wanted a healer-type in heavy armor for the most part I'm really glad they made it an option.

[Nphect]

Ieldra2 wrote...

(1) Spirit Healer is a good specialization for any mage to have, even if, or especially if, you don't want to learn any regular healing spells. Arcane Warrior also is a very good specialisation for any mage to have, even if you never use anything but mage equipment. The reason is "Shimmering Shield", which is extremely useful. That way, your mage won't be a frontline tank, but the huge bonus to all resistances makes her take a lot less damage from enemy special attacks, even from thrown boulders, Revenants' pull ability and suchlike. If you want a tanklike mage but stay more like a mage and not like a warrior, this is the way to go.

(2) I can't say anything about Blood Mages, because I don't play them. But if you're an Arcane Warrior and plan to use swords instead of staffs, there are spells you can cast while having a sword in your hand, and others where you must switch to staff or bare hands before being able to cast them. An Arcane Warrior with a sword will prefer the former, of course. You can find a list of such spells here.
Apart from that, the only fix rule I'd give is to learn enough disabling spells. Damage can be done by everyone, but disabling for longer than one or two seconds usually needs a mage. My most powerful build was a staff-using, robe-wearing mage with these spells:

Arcane Warrior 3
Spirit Healer 2
Mage 4
Primal 0-2-3-0
Creation 0-0-3-1
Spirit 0-4-4-4
Entropy 0-0-0-0

(3) Any mage who does not plan to use swords to attack doesn't need Dexterity. That's the reason why I personally prefer Arcane Warriors to keep mage weapons.

Is there any character I should have in my party 100% of the time besides Alistair? Morrigan seems a good choice and turn her into a pure Mage and work with AoE / Blood Mage

But for the 4th party member, it just seems to me that I can pick whomever. 

EDIT: Seeing as how Morrigan can take another specialization, I can basically have BM / AW / SH spells for my group at all times, and since both characters (Main and Morr) will be part of my party very early on, I can spec them for each role with minimal stats / points wasted

Modifié par Nphect, 06 janvier 2010 - 11:43 .

[Sarielle]

Nphect wrote...

Is there any character I should have in my party 100% of the time besides Alistair? Morrigan seems a good choice and turn her into a pure Mage and work with AoE / Blood Mage

But for the 4th party member, it just seems to me that I can pick whomever. 

EDIT: Seeing as how Morrigan can take another specialization, I can basically have BM / AW / SH spells for my group at all times, and since both characters (Main and Morr) will be part of my party very early on, I can spec them for each role with minimal stats / points wasted

I like Leliana...her bard songs make a noticeable difference to me, and you get the added bonus of lockpicking. But then again I don't always take the same people, I switch it up for variety.

[Lordneverso]

BM/AW share the same on each level restrictions meaning at the level they become available (14 and 16 for the final 2) meaning unless you save points (or use tomes) you have to select the better for the moment



something to always plan as shimmering shield and blood wound are both equally good,



as for a AW/SH they unlock different if SH is took as the first specializations (you will have surviability issues around 11-14 depending what your currently doing (say Urn of sacred ashes)



the spirit tree will probally be your best friend if your playing a AW/SH so will spending just one point for heal

[Sarielle]

I didn't have any survivability issues doing the urn line, and I did it with SH only. o_O As a matter of fact since I don't have all the goodies for AW yet (I just got it) I think I actually survive longer standing back as a mage...but melee is more fun so unless the fight is very difficult I still charge in after casting glyphs/lifeward and such.

[SusanStoHelit]

I'm loving my two AW/SH. I don't like blood mage - it's very effective, I tried it, I just don't like it (not evil enough, I suppose). I varied their builds and use different lines, both are effective and suit my playstyle. I found all these useful:



Arcane Warrior: 4

Spirit Healer: 4

Primal: Cold: 4; Electrical: 3

Creation: Healing: 1; Glyphs: 4

Spirit: Telekinesis: 4

Entropy: Debilitation: 4; Hexes: 4; Sleep: 4; Draining: 4

[Nphect]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

I'm loving my two AW/SH. I don't like blood mage - it's very effective, I tried it, I just don't like it (not evil enough, I suppose). I varied their builds and use different lines, both are effective and suit my playstyle. I found all these useful:

Arcane Warrior: 4
Spirit Healer: 4
Primal: Cold: 4; Electrical: 3
Creation: Healing: 1; Glyphs: 4
Spirit: Telekinesis: 4
Entropy: Debilitation: 4; Hexes: 4; Sleep: 4; Draining: 4

Primal is great but if I'm playing AW/SH OR AW/BM w/ Morrigan on my team, it's completely pointless to spend points since my main will be the controller / debuffer while Morr serves as the traditional dps / aoe mage

And with most of my questions answered, now I need to try and figure out exactly how to spend my attribute points, starting and per level, to reach minimal requirements for everything. If anyone could tell me some guidelines for AW/BM and AW/SH, then I'm sure I can be done with asking questions until March 18th

[Sarielle]

I'm pretty sure the Warden set I'm wearing requires 38 strength (translating to 38 magic with Arcane Warrior of course); I've been stacking pretty much only that, and adding in a point or two of Will when I start to notice mana really being an issue. The most I've seen required on armor is 42 strength (magic for you) if you want to wear the heaviest. But I like the health bonus and bonus to mana regeneration I get from the Warden Commander set, so I doubt I'll be deviating from it unless something truly stupendous comes along.

I only have 20 in Dex at the moment, and I don't hit as much as I'd like in melee so I'm going to raise it a bit above that. But when she does hit, she hits like a truck; her magic is now at 50 unbuffed.

You seem to be going the exact route I did (if you take Spirit Healer); I took Glyphs and the Telepathy line for buffs/CC; I only just grabbed another damage spell besides the default one you start with the last couple of levels, and I've been doing just fine -- and I even will run with 2 rogues sometimes or whatever because I like to shake up my groups. If you keep Morrigan with you you should breeze through most stuff.

But again the disclaimer: I'm a noob and not exactly a power gamer.

If you haven't looked into glyphs, do. Nice CC, pretty designs on the floor () and nice defensive bonuses that really make tanking a lot easier.

Modifié par Sarielle, 07 janvier 2010 - 02:29 .

[Nphect]

Sarielle wrote...

I'm pretty sure the Warden set I'm wearing requires 38 strength (translating to 38 magic with Arcane Warrior of course); I've been stacking pretty much only that, and adding in a point or two of Will when I start to notice mana really being an issue. The most I've seen required on armor is 42 strength (magic for you) if you want to wear the heaviest. But I like the health bonus and bonus to mana regeneration I get from the Warden Commander set, so I doubt I'll be deviating from it unless something truly stupendous comes along.

I only have 20 in Dex at the moment, and I don't hit as much as I'd like in melee so I'm going to raise it a bit above that. But when she does hit, she hits like a truck; her magic is now at 50 unbuffed.

You seem to be going the exact route I did (if you take Spirit Healer); I took Glyphs and the Telepathy line for buffs/CC; I only just grabbed another damage spell besides the default one you start with the last couple of levels, and I've been doing just fine -- and I even will run with 2 rogues sometimes or whatever because I like to shake up my groups. If you keep Morrigan with you you should breeze through most stuff.

But again the disclaimer: I'm a noob and not exactly a power gamer.

If you haven't looked into glyphs, do. Nice CC, pretty designs on the floor () and nice defensive bonuses that really make tanking a lot easier.

The glyphs will be some of the early spells I grab, along with Force Field and Vulnerability Hex (thanks for pointing out that it does help out during bosses), then late game, getting Horror and the Nightmare Cloud, but to be honest, it all depends on how I beat the game. The Urn quest isn't very fun to do unless you kill the Dragon and I don't want to do that sitting at lvl 8 with only Combat Magic and a couple glyphs. 

But yeah, I think I'm going to stick with going to 20 Dex (including Fade bonuses), ~30 Willpower and stacking Magic. But like you, I'm not amazing at min/maxing characters and I tend to play the game for the fun in how creative each class can become.

[Sarielle]

Yeah. I didn't bother with the dragon when I first saw her...but I intend to go back to her once I have a few more levels and skills under my belt.

[ninja36inc]

hi i have played the game as a mage 5 times just trying to find the right set up ive gone for a mix of dps and healing so i picked arcane warrior and spiret healer i have all lightning/fire spells grese is handy if you use fireball to ignite it the wisp buff is good the top end armor needs 48 magic im useing wades superior dragonbone plate set gives +4 stam regen 70% fire restence and +25 stam im not haveing any mana problems even when useing teir 4 spells like inferno and tempest is teir 3 wile useing group heal i wouldent worry about the warden set for mana regen the stam regen stats on items will regen your mana if you are a mage

[ninja36inc]

hi i have played the game as a mage 5 times just trying to find the right set up ive gone for a mix of dps and healing so i picked arcane warrior and spiret healer i have all lightning/fire spells grese is handy if you use fireball to ignite it the wisp buff is good the top end armor needs 48 magic im useing wades superior dragonbone plate set gives +4 stam regen 70% fire restence and +25 stam im not haveing any mana problems even when useing teir 4 spells like inferno and tempest is teir 3 wile useing group heal i wouldent worry about the warden set for mana regen the stam regen stats on items will regen your mana if you are a mage

Modifié par ninja36inc, 07 janvier 2010 - 03:17 .

[Ieldra]

And with most of my questions answered, now I need to try and figure out exactly how to spend my attribute points, starting and per level, to reach minimal requirements for everything. If anyone could tell me some guidelines for AW/BM and AW/SH, then I'm sure I can be done with asking questions until March 18th

I never played a mage, AW or not, where Willpower +1, Magic+2 per level wasn't a good general guideline. Some people go for even more Magic, but then mana management will get tricky at times, especially if you play with all AW abilities on and want to cast the occasional spell. If you only want to wear the heaviest armor you can stop at Magic 42, but that will limit the strength of any spells you might want to cast. If you want to cast very few spells, stopping there might be a good idea since the AW abilities don't profit from a high Magic attribute except Combat Magic, which gives an measly attack bonus of 1 for every five points of spellpower.

[Haplose]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I never played a mage, AW or not, where Willpower +1, Magic+2 per level wasn't a good general guideline. Some people go for even more Magic, but then mana management will get tricky at times, especially if you play with all AW abilities on and want to cast the occasional spell. If you only want to wear the heaviest armor you can stop at Magic 42, but that will limit the strength of any spells you might want to cast. If you want to cast very few spells, stopping there might be a good idea since the AW abilities don't profit from a high Magic attribute except Combat Magic, which gives an measly attack bonus of 1 for every five points of spellpower.

It isn't. At least on Nightmare. Way too many resists.
Magic all the way. Unless you want a pure Heal/Buffbot, then Willpower all the way.
Wynne can be easily built that way though. Still even then 2 sources of CC/damage casting simultaniusly and perhaps building combos together are better then 1....

[Mr_Raider]

I tend to agree. Magic first and foremeost, and just enough mana to cast your spells through one cooldown cycle. That ends up being about 60 magic and 30 willpower, inlcuding the fade bonuses. The rest of the willpower you can get from Andruils belt, spellward amulet and staff of magister lords. play on PC Hard.

[Ieldra]

^^Well yes. That's what I'd do for a spellcasting mage, AW or not, who doesn't use combat magic a lot. But if you have combat magic active, spellcasting costs more, and you might need more willpower to cast the same spells. I've never tried combat magic for any considerable length of time, though, perhaps someone who has can shed some light on this...

[Nphect]

I can't seem to find the thread anymore, but what is the best armor for AW? I know the weapons and I'm still doing research into which accessories are the best (could use help on that also)

[soteria]

I prefer blood mage to arcane warrior. Arcane warrior gives heavy armor, which I don't really need, but blood magic gives some great spells and essentially infinite mana once you figure it out.

[Cybercat999]

soteria wrote...

I prefer blood mage to arcane warrior. Arcane warrior gives heavy armor, which I don't really need, but blood magic gives some great spells and essentially infinite mana once you figure it out.

Yes. This.
I take AW as second one but actually never use it unless I want to parade in pretty armor. I am a mage, I want to be fast, deadly spellcaster not hybrid burdened with fatigue trying to hit something with a sword. For me personally BM is the only spec worth something, I dislike healing and if I wanted to be a tank I would roll warrior and be more effective with twice less effort.
Blood magic rocks

[ChaoticBroth]

Eh. I find that overall, the SH/BM combo to be the most useful. Here's my setup



SH - 2 (Option: Go 1 if you can keep your team alive, or 4 for some sustained healing powers)

BM - 3

Primal - 0 - 0 - 4 - 3

Creation - 1 - 0 - 3 - 0

Spirit - 0 - 3 - 3 - 2 (Or 4, if you want to.)

Entropy - Not really used by me, but 0 - 2 - 0 - 0 has some damage increase. I usually toss this line out in favor of getting Crushing Prison or Cleansing Aura.



Note that this goes up to 24, and some options can be swapped out, since they're not all necessary. My mage becomes pretty deadly with this, especially if my tactics don't screw up and Alistair is able to hold the mob.