334 réponses à ce sujet

[superdudu]

i guess the gameplay will slow down dramatically if all the boolean logics are added to the AI tactics, Shouldn't we also include Attack/Health/Weapon status for each enemy on the field to derive the optimal tactis? Players have a less Cunning will have a bigger chance of over-estimating or underestimating enemies..



whoever has the best microcontrol skills wins the battle...no cpu beats human brain...

[Zelda Uzikua]

Victor Wachter wrote...

• How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
• What would you improve in the tactical interface?
• Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
• How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
• Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
• What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

[*]I feel that it is a bit annoying with the weapon switch tatic but other than that i love it[*]Making characters switch weapons easier[*]Yes for the most part[*]most of the time they are good, but with using potions they are very slow[*]Yes, when Sten does a 2h sweep, he just stands in one spot for 4-5 seconds, disappear and then reappear naked O.o
[*]I would like to be able to add a list on what actions to do first, instead of hitting another canceling out the first

Modifié par Zelda Uzikua, 13 janvier 2010 - 06:35 .

[yrebrac]

Honestly I didn't use the tactical system a whole lot because it didn't initially do what I wanted, and the NPC behaviour wasn't predictable.



I ended up only using it to consume health potions when self health < 25%.



I also attribute my choice to two other things:

1) I didn't mind a bit of combat micro-management

2) No tactics system could deal with the complexity of combat in DA (probably a good thing) without becoming overly complex itself.



# How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?

Easy enough to use



# What would you improve in the tactical interface?

The 'modes' (agressive, ranged etc) should make more sense. None of them had the combination of behaviours I wanted, so I had to use passive and micro-manage.



# Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?

No, sorry can't give exact details as I stopped paying close attention.



# How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?

n/a



# Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?

yes



# What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

More situational awareness and generalised forms. E.g. boss is mage so use any available skill that interrupts spell-casting.





Finally I think with some refinement the tactics system could be excellent. It certainly did not detract from the game and was useful for health rebuff, if not for actual combat tactics.

[Franpa]

Carodej wrote...

Another thing I have noticed is that sometimes party members simply seem to go on some sort of pause while doing an action.  I have seen this in a variety of actions, but with warriors and rouges, as well as mages.  But the only specific examples I can recall as I write this are when Morrigan or Wynne cast Heal.  Most of the time it goes off just fine.  But sometimes they will just show Heal as their action and the seconds will go by.  If I take command of the NPC and manually set that action to occur, it always proceeds fine.  But sometimes any action just seems to hang there and not actually do anything.  (It shows by their portrait as if the action is being taken, but I can wait for several seconds and nothing occurs.)
Similarly, something else that I noticed is that occasionally a character just does nothing (and there is no action even showing next to their portrait).  So far, the only thing I have noticed that these instances have in common is that they normally take place shortly after I take the party off of Hold.  I often sneak into a room with a rogue while the rest of the party is Holding outside the area, then pause, then command initial attacks for all four party members and take off Hold, switch back to my PC rogue and finally unpause.  The initial attacks always go off, but occasionally one of the party members does nothing after that.  Even more rarely I have had it happen to two party members at once.  If they are in melee, they usually do more than their initial attack, but then will just stop doing anything after their opponent is down.  My guess is that somehow the Hold condition did not properly clear on the party members (perhaps because I switched control of the various characters rapidly while the game was paused combined with whenever I actually take off the Hold).  But whatever the reason, if I take control of the character and select an action manually, when I return to my PC (or whatever character I want to control), the formerly frozen character has no more problems for the rest of the battle.  Anyway, I am only guessing at to the cause, but I definitely notice that sometimes a party member simply does nothing, despite having AI commands that should prevent this.

I've now noticed these pauses too, they sit there with an action that they never perform. I believe it usually happens when they try to perform an action at the same time as being knocked down which for some gay reason makes them lose focus on there current task. I set my guy to attack someone and when my guy gets up from being knocked down, he stands still even though the target selection ring under the enemy signifies I've chosen to attack it.

I've noticed pauses largely with Lyrium Potions.

[Allen63]

All tactics slots should be available for "free" right from the start. And, they are with a mod.

I am not too concerned about issues that are easily fixed with a mod. By providing easy modding, Bioware is relieved of responsibility for fixing everything (a positive statement). Bioware just has to fix what modders can't.

Otherwise, I found the tactics did not support my play style (2 mages, archer, tank). I stand off and kill them at a distance with a plan of attack designed for the situation and coordinated among the three ranged fighters -- holding the tank in reserve in case any break through. Some variation of that works for virtually every fight.

My real issue would be with the enemy AI. They rarely act rationally or in a coordinated fashion. My tactics would not work against a "smart" enemy.

So, no real complaints because I don't use tactics enough to have any.

Though I do not use tactics. I actually think Bioware did well providing them. I'd probably complain if there were no such mechanism. They would be handier if I were into "close combat". If I use tactics more, I may have more to say.

Modifié par Allen63, 13 janvier 2010 - 05:32 .

[huwie]

superdudu wrote...
i guess the gameplay will slow down dramatically if all the boolean logics are added to the AI tactics,

I'm not sure it would be that processor intensive in the context of everything else the game is doing, and in any case it would be faster than the way we're currently forced to implement boolean logic, which is by the old-fashioned method of multiple steps and conditional jumps (condition->jump to tactic N). Having a feature built into the engine is generally faster than implementing the same feature on top of the engine.

Plus implementing boolean logic using conditional jumps is more hassle and more error-prone, particularly when moving tactics around, because the jump destinations can get lost as you drag tactics to a different slot.

[Scorus]

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical
interface is to use?
[/list]Being a programmer, the tactical interface wasn't very much of a challenge, so to me it was quite intuitive.

What would you
improve in the tactical interface?
[/list]Don't limit the amount of slots to skills. The tactic interface is ment to assist new players. Once you grow more advanced you start to micro-manage and disable pretty much all the tactics anyways.

Do
your party members react as you would expect them to under different
tactical settings?
[/list]Usually, yes. When they didn't I had some priorities mixed up.

How responsive
are your followers to different tactical conditions?
[/list]Very

Have you seen them behave unusually in any
circumstances?
[/list]Can't quite remember any, no...

What kind of
different ways would you want to control your party?[/list]I would like to see a different option to the tactic system.
Let's say you could chose between the tactic system and an AI system where you just defined the role you want your partymember to have.

Let's say you want Leliana as an Archer, you'd just select the AI routine, Archer. Then let the game handle all the needed calculations of what would be best to use, what skills to keep up and so fourth.

[xAeternax]

 How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?[/list]


The interface is very easy to use, everything's straight forward. However there are some things that aren't entirely clear on the naming of conditions; especially surrounding "When there's an x number of enemies around". 

What would you improve in the tactical interface?

See ^^^^

Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?

They usually do, though Shale oftentimes does not use his abilities as often as I'd like him to. Don't really know why.

How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?

They normally function quite well, though they can at times just run off after someone for miles, which is ridiculous.

Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?

Except for not using AoE-abilities when surrounded, no.

What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?
Being able to tell them to attack my target directly, that'd be handy when focus firing.

[/list]

[TyroneTasty]

NVM lol 

Modifié par TyroneTasty, 13 janvier 2010 - 08:18 .

[theteamfantastic]

Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?



The only problem I've found is they sometimes stop attacking. Auto-attacks and all. This can happen of the target gets knocked down, moved, or if the character gets knocked down.This requires me to retake control of them and reorder them to attack their target before I can switch back to my char.

[Lyriq]

I liked the tactics system for the most part, though sometimes my controlled teammates would behave strangely (Morrigan running into the midst of combat, not obeying the priority list, behaving like "clustered" meant three guys standing 15 feet apart, companions will atop attacking, or only attack when they're using an ability, etc.). I was annoyed that scattershot couldn't be selected on enemy clustering, and there is no unconscious status (at least none that I remember atm) so as to make my healers revive when someone goes down. All in all, I thought it was fairly easy to use, and definitely an improvement from other games where companions just run loose.

[Andat]

Oops posted to the wrong thread

Mods: delete this post

Sorry...

Modifié par Andat, 14 janvier 2010 - 02:37 .

[Magus_42]

I completely failed to notice the existence of the "behavior" drop down for more the an a full playthrough of the game, but that's probably just my fault for failing explore the interface properly. It would be nice if the results of this choice were made more apparent in the interface, however.



I have to say that I dislike the design choice of having combat tactics be unlocked by levels and skill points. The point where I stop having fun with this sort of game is when I start to feel like AI stupidity is limiting my advancement. The tactics system in the game does a reasonable job of mitigating the damage my companions do to my plans, but I feel like that I should have full access to the system by default, not as a trade-off with other abilities. I assume the idea was to represent the difference between an intelligent fighter and a brute with the combat tactics skill, but these tactics are generally fairly simplistic things, and I feel that anyone capable of speaking at a functional level should be able to handle a couple dozen of them without difficulty.



Not exactly related to tactics, but the companion issue that most annoys me is that when I switch from "hold position" to "follow me", the companions will immediately run towards the active character, even if a combat has started and there is an enemy in their melee range. They usually won't turn and fight until they reach the active character, problematic if you had a ranged attacker some distance back from your melee line. If you switch characters during this process, I've seen them become completely confused and spend some time running in circles. The idea here is that I want to setup my characters in an ambush position, but must release their hold once the fighting starts because the AI will stubbornly refuse to take a single step from their assigned position, even if engaged in melee by an attacker with slightly longer reach. The ideal solution would be some sort of guard-area command, which would keep my allies in their assigned positions, but allow the flexibility to fight. Barring that, just making them prioritize a nearby enemy over following the active character would make life a lot easier.



The other major companion annoyance is that when a combat starts immediately after a cutscene or travel screen, the AI tends to get confused, and the companions will run into each other comically for a few seconds before they manage to form some sort of battle line. As the enemy AI does not have this problem and has already drawn weapons and starting casting spells and preparing scattershots, this can make some combats more difficult than they really should be.

[AtLastForgot]

First of all, I LOVE the tactics system. It's so refreshing to see a Dev team that assumes I'm fairly bright and allows that kind of beautiful fine tuning. After a few play-throughs I've gotten such a tight grip that even Nightmare is a bit too easy.



My first suggestion is that there needs to be an option for selecting an ANY ALLY + SELF trigger, so your healer doesn't need to run two different tactics just to heal herself as well as the party when needed.



Secondly, there should be a CURRENT TARGET trigger as well as just an ENEMY trigger. With the only inclusion of an enemy trigger, say I have my tank set to Shield Bash a spellcasting opponent. Even if he's super far away from a caster and engaged with several other enemies, if someone starts casting a spell he flies over there and totally ruins my positioning.



The functionality of the MANA/STAMINA < XX% trigger could really be improved. As is, with a little bit of game lag, and even setting it to the lowest possible choice, my casters will often chug three potions before their mana goes up (and then tops off, completely wasting the potions) so instead I have to notice they're running low, manually open inventory and click the use potion, and then exit out of menu. Tedious! Maybe you could put a short internal cooldown on it?



This is completely unrelated but I need more toolbars! More toolbars! More space on the toolbar! By level 18 or so on a mage I'm so swamped in spells that will never have a space on my toolbar I just get sad, and that lowers my enthusiasm to level up.



I have more comments but I'll end this for now.



Hope it helps, glad to see you're soliciting feedback. Fantastic game.

[expiredrascals]

I feel that the current number of tactics slots is a bit restrictive, even with points in the skill, so I think that it would make sense to up the number a bit.

I also wish my rogue archer would stop running into battle because a tactic (set only under the condition of being melee attacked) tells her to do use dirty fighting.

I need a way to add revival to tactics.  currently I have to do it manually

spell combos should be able to be queued in tactics

quick heal should be a feature rather than the biggest/smallest potion

I want to have an aggressive ranged preset behavior--the character runs and attempts to stay at range, but also will follow enemies and hunt them down and attack at extreme range as the PC can

having a "tank" preset would be nice too

also, would there be a way to tell a spirit healer to stop blowing their mana on the cleansing aura?  I want a healer, not an idiot that chugs all my mana pots to support a short-range aura when she is way behind the front line

Modifié par expiredrascals, 14 janvier 2010 - 06:38 .

[Lotus Scriptor]

I'd like to see a tactics option to switch off stamina/mana-draining modes after the battle ends - it gets really old having to keep telling Leliana to switch off Song of Valor and Rapid Shot every time we've taken out a few darkspawn. Better yet, this should happen automatically unless one gives a specific instruction that it should not.

[Astranagant]

Generally: I'd like it if characters could freely use their talents and spells as determined by personality or a broad tactical command, rather than only under the circumstances specified in the limited number of tactics slots, with the tactics settings acting like an exception or an override (e.g. if your HP goes below X%, stop what you're doing and heal before going back to doing what you want.)



Weird stuff: Leliana starts with a bunch of archery talents but will always switch to melee weapons. It's kind of a problem to have to use a tactics slot just to get her to use the weapon class she's most skilled with. That or manually switch to her and switch weapon sets every time there's a fight.

[SkittlesKat96]

 It's easy but it can get really tiresome to keep changing for each party member and each level up.

As for what I'd change I'm not so sure - it'd be cool if there were more tactic slots for mages and an auto-disarm trap thing.

Do my party members react as I want them too? Sure, though for some characters like Alistair it glitches and he won't perform the ability and he's just standing there, thats been fixed in a patch though.

[Gray the Grayte]

Overall system is fine



Things i would like improved

1) Rogue switching between bow and melee often happens when you don't want it to. In the end I got frustrated and just made her a dual wielding melee rogue

2) Missing statuses - Enemy Status = Death Hex (so you can use a certain spell combo), Ally Status = Dead (so you can revive)

3) Lack of party based health <x% (required if you want to implement a mass heal only when it benefits everyone)

4) More slots for all characters. I don't think the skill adds much value. Just max them all from the start or at least heavily increase the number they get for each level of the skill.

5) Would be nice to be able to do an AND between two conditions

6) Really need some sort of way of preventing mages only using friendly AOE spells such as Cone of Cold if they wont toast the party. Would probably require the implementation of point 5 (so you can do "Cluster of x enemies AND no party member in area of effect)

[Gray the Grayte]

Whoops pressed submit too soon



7) Need "Ally + Self" so you can not have to waste two slots just to heal anyone that is injured including yourself.



8) Need a way of doing Enemy: Current target so you can ensure a follow up skill gets used on the target your last skill got used on.

[Decho the Dolphin]

The tactics system is pretty damn nice but, as others have said, could use more slots from the off. Also, it could be introduced to the player more obviously, I know people who have completed the game without finding it or the ability to have multiple weapon sets.



The only real additions I can think of:



1. Satus: Incapacitated (so that you can set revive to automatic)



2. Maximum distance from controlled character setting.



3. 'Cluster of x enemies and no party member in area of effect' function, friendly fire is currently a problem.

[cgckn]

i love tactic combat dao system but if you add this, it make me useful

1 . i wish to see sub tactic. slot tactic can add link to anther tactic defend go to scrapper or whatever  your setting
      it has to easy for combat situation
    
2. add action flee away from enemy

Modifié par cgckn, 14 janvier 2010 - 02:33 .

[huwie]

Another thing I'd like to be able to experiment with is manipulating the Hold status from within tactics. Eg.



self/ally : being attacked by melee -> Release Hold



I often use Hold for tactical set-up and then I have to remember to release them ... which I don't always manage immediately (my own fault but in the heat of the moment it's easy for me -- and I suspect for others -- to forget).

[Rendar666]

I liked the tactics system. I felt it was very refined and helped to keep my guys busy doing stuff I actually want them to do instead of spamming weak spells at a high level boss.



I don't think this is exactly related to the tactics settings, but I disliked the circle menu that allowed you to choose tactics for your current selected character for the Xbox 360. I felt it was far too cluttered and the roundness of it... I just didn't like it. This menu would work best if it were just a rectangle, in my honest opinion, not unlike a computer RPG. And then when you go to select items and spells they are shown according to an order you have set in preference on the rectangle, thus allowing you to sort through the spells and merely scroll down, left, up or what not to select instead of wheeling around the wheel attempting to find the spell or item you wanted and then cursing when you realize that you have to "flip the page" in order to find your next spell/item.



But yes, the tactics system is really nice. I think it could still be upgraded a bit more though, so as to give us players the ultimate feeling of "control" over our companions. I micro manage every little thing my people do on PC but it feels like a hastle on the Xbox 360.



Oh, also, it would be nice if we could select an action for each of our companions while the circle menu is open and then they do this action once the game is unpaused. That was also really annoying. When everyone is dying and I have to select each action and then have the game start again. Someone always dies in Nightmare difficulty with this going on. Unless you can do this by selecting everyone at once? Idk, I never tried....

[tetracycloide]

Q: How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
A: The only thing I feel I can rely on tactics to do correctly is keep sustained abilities I want on permanently on permanently.  Everything else I set up loose tactics for but assume it won't work right and micro everything anyway.  Rank conditionals are another area where abilities tend to work better than normal although it would be nice to be able to have the tactics check for a enemy of sufficient rank and then do something to a different target without using 'Goto' lines.  Enemy Rank Elite or Higher with a 'target nearest normal minion' condition built in would be nice for example.

Q: What would you improve in the tactical interface?
A:  While tactics are easy to set up it is not very intuitive how they are used to determine a character's actions.  It would be nice if a more detailed explanation of how tactics work was provided in the game documentation or, better yet, in game somewhere.  Additionally I'd remove some of the conditions like the one I described above.  If I want a tactic that randomly uses a single target ability on a group I should get it.

Q: Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
A: Not as often as I'd like.  Just to name a few examples, Enemy: Nearest Mage does not work at all.  Every tactic I've set up with this condition triggers in many more cases than just against mages.  Another would be attempting to automatically script shattering.  The closest approximation to 'frozen' status in the tactics menu is one or more of the status effects none of which are just 'frozen' verbatim.  To compound this problem I cannot set up a single line that says 'If enemy is frozen use an ability that critically hits' I have to use individual lines for each ability.  For this specific tactic and others like it (triggering off of "Status: Sleeping") it would be nice If there was a way to combine this into one line.

Q: How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
Sometimes very responsive, sometimes not.  The variation can be frustrating sometimes.  One of many frequently used tactics is "Self: Any Activate Sustained Ability: X" which occasionally takes much longer than just a few seconds to trigger.  Other times though the "Enemy: Status Immobilized Activate Ability: (ability that critically hits)" will go off right when I need it and I will be privy to the rather satisfying red "shattered" message without having to micro at all.

Q: Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
A: Sometimes players I'm not actively controlling will just get stuck on a tactic and not do anything at all.  This seems to happen most often with the skill "Group Heal" and with potion usage.

Q: What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?
A:  The 'Goto' function is an absolutely horrid way of checking multiple conditions at once.  I believe its intended function is to skip sections of tactics once a condition has been met.  For skills like "Group Heal" however there really is no good way to set up a tactic that waits for everyone or a minimum number of party members to require a heal.  Status conditions should be more explicit and comparable to in game spells.  Frozen and Unconscious, most of all, should have their own status condition.