334 réponses à ce sujet

[xCobalt]

I don't have many problems with tactic system but there are definitely some things to improve on.



- AI should be able to flank/backstab enemies

- make being grabbed or pinned down as a condition (ie: use Shield Bash if player is grabbed)

- I recall some problems when trying to make the AI use poisons on a regular basis

- As a console player, I would like to be able to control my party without having to unpause

- I'm not too sure but I dont think there is a condition if a party member is dead...one would have to switch to a healer and revive the downed member manually



I haven't read the other posts, so there may be duplicate ideas.

[Coastwatcher]

Improve the various "stances" (closest term I can think of). Default, Defensive, Cautious, Ranged, etc. Characters set to Defensive, for example, sometimes just stand there even when a battle is going on around them and they're not being attacked directly, which is illogical. Won't they react and try to help out with the fighting, but NOT chase the enemy when it tries to pull them ? Wouldn't Ranged characters try to move away from melee mobs trying to close with them ?

[Tusbat]

It works better than I expected, I normally prefer controlling everything but it's a nice addition for those who don't. But when I use it I couldn't find any option for turning off modes. Like turn off dueling when out of combat. Another problematic thing is ranged characters in melee, I couldn't find any options for switching to melee and then switching back to bows when there aren't any enemies at close distance. I really don't have opinions about specific questions you asked since I mainly prefer controlling everything manually but I guess the system is easy but takes time to adjust, which can be bothersome.

[creininger]

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
The interface is very well done. Being able to selectively disable certain tactic slots without disabling tactics altogether or switching to a custom tactic is very useful. Interface gets 5 stars.


What would you improve in the tactical interface?
Custom tactics give the option to jump to a specific tactic. I don't see why thats not available in preset tactics, but it's really not that big of a deal. More starter tactic slots (perhaps 2 extra) would be very nice, since more often than not, I'm only switching from the Hero to tell them to drink a potion or poultice that they should be able to do on their own. I don't mind having to tell them to use spells and abilities outside thier preset role (such as telling a Healer role to cast Petrify).


Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
No, not always. The behavior setting in particular needs a little refinement. Aggressive should be changed so that they don't attack until the Hero does, rather then once the enemy is in sight. Also, all the behavior setting are very clumsy when Hold Position is removed, even Aggressive. They should immediately engage thier behavior after Hold is lifted.


How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
The tactics themselves are very reliable. I have my mabari set to Charge anyone that attacks my healer, which usually knocks them down. No matter what the mabari is doing, that tactic always executes, along with all the tactics of any other part memeber.


Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
The Defensive behavior is not particularly useful, as once the pary memeber is no longer being attacked, he just runs over to the Hero and stands there. Defensive should always be engaged if someone in the party is engaged. Additonally, friendly party members can't move through each other. This is quite annoying when trying to set up an ambush around a choke point, like a door. If I have a large companion like Shale or the ranger's bear summon, none of my other peple can get past them, and generally, they cant get past each other. Enemies, however, seem more than capable of squeezing by to come over and shield bash my mages or archers.


What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?
There needs to be some way to tell a party member to switch to a different tactic without having to open the tactic interface. For instance, Morrigan is typically on a Debilitator setting for fights with a few normal mobs. When an Alpha Ogre pops out of the ground, I would like to be able to either program her to switch to Support (or a custom tactic), or have a button I can push to tell her to do so. Additionally, it would be really nice if we could group and command party memebers seperately. What I mean is, I want to be able to group my tank and melee damager together and have them hold in one spot, then have my mage and archer in a seperate group and have them hold in a different spot. When the enemies show up, I want to be able to let my melee people move freely but keep the Hold on my other group.

[chautemoc]

Fairly easy.

Include more options, or at least more specific ones. I was looking for ways to set it up so every time an enemy is frozen, my part would use Stonefist/Killing Blow/etc, but couldn't find an option for it. It's possible I'm just stupid/lazy but I found the saved/custom tactics stuff confusing so I didn't really bother. Just stuck to one set and did everything else manually, for the most part.

Generally they seem to react as expected, although sometimes options don't trigger. Sten, for example, will queue up the sweep move (can't remember the name at the moment), but it won't execute unless I do it manually. Seems to be limited to specific skills. Can't recall others...

[jennamarae]

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
The interface is easy enough to use once you figure it all out. On the Xbox version, it took me awhile to notice that you could change their behavior (aggressive, defender, ranged, etc.) and that there were different preset options to choose from. Could be my eyes, but it just didn't seem very obvious to me in game and it took me two complete play throughs before I finally noticed it.

What would you improve in the tactical interface?
One improvement I would like to see is an option that's somewhere between Aggressive and Defensive. If I set one to Aggressive, they end up on pretty far away from any mages in the group and unable to return quickly enough to pull any mobs off them. If I set them to Defensive they stay close enough, but seem to come running back to my character and wait a few seconds before engaging any close-by mobs. Either way my mages are dead if I'm not paying close enough attention.

Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
For the most part I think they react as they are supposed to except the Defensive setting leading to a delayed reaction to nearby mobs as I said above. An improvement I would like to see in reactions requires a description of what I'm talking about, so bare with me for a moment.

In Ostagar during your first encounter with the darkspawn, if playing as an archer, it's possible to attack from range not long after you see them. The problem I'd like to see improved is that my archer can stand there and kill each of them one by one but none of the companions go after them unless they get too close. Only then do their tactics take effect and they run out to kill that one and then run back unless I manually tell them to attack. If my archer stands close enough this doesn't happen, but if not I have three people standing around doing nothing but pretending to be targets for the darkspawn archers. This happens in a few other places, but I can describe this one much more easily.

How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
Other than the Defensive setting, they are very responsive except the situations similar to what I outlined above.

Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
I have had party members set to Aggressive that are surrounded by three mobs, kill one of them, and then that party member brings the remaining two mobs back to the mages. It seems odd to me that they would return without the other two being killed first. I've also had mages run right into the thick of battle if I have everyone selected when attacking a mob even if set to Ranged.

What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?
I'm sure it would be difficult to do, but I would like to be able to choose just two or three of the party instead of all or one. Granted it's not that difficult to tell each what to do one at a time, but it would be nice to tell all of the melee people to do something at the same time without telling the mages/archers to do it to. If there's a way to do that on the PC someone message me cause I haven't found it yet. I doubt it's possible on the console versions, but I'd still like to see it.

[Deiser]

I found the tactics system very, very easy to use, but felt a bit too limited on what I could do with it. As castaftw mentioned, Advanced Tactics drastically increased the variety of actions AI companions can do, and I strongly recommend placing a system based on that in future DA games (and maybe even as a patch for this one? >_>)



For the most part, even without the Advanced Tactics mod my companions reacted exactly as I expected based on the options I gave them, which I applaud you guys for. There are only two times where this went wonky: when my archer is attacked at melee range (Lelianna kept switching to sword as I programmed her, but then went back to bow and kept going back and forth), and with Mouse in the Mage Origin (got stuck constantly trying to cast rock armor and heal on himself, since I didn't realize you had disabled his spellcasting similarly to shapeshifters). Obviously the latter is more my fault and is a minor thing anyways, but the bow/sword thing is something that may need looking into, given that it seems many players have had issues with it.



As for what other possible ways I would want to control my characters... maybe a sort of "ghost" system? That is, if I am controlling a character, the AI will adjust his/her tactics based on what I do while controlling him/her, so if I ever switch to a different character the AI will try its best to act the same way I did.

[Sarevok Anchev]

Victor Wachter wrote...

• How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
• What would you improve in the tactical interface?
• Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
• How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
• Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
• What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

 
[*]THIS IS PC-Player experience and oppinion:
1. Its easy to use. Some options you have to search, but that can happen with so many factors.
2. The tactics for summoned Animals for example should be saved(Wolf, Bear, Spider each) after
you have chosen. And you should be able to check them by pressing the arrows in the T.I.-Menu
ALSO: I think the Combat Tactics Skill is useless. I never used it and still had more then enough options
with lvl up!
3. Sometimes they arent doing anything and they will sometimes override my command.
It would be no major changes, just tweaking some little annoyances.
But some overall Intelligence would be good. Mages seem to use a Attack Spell(i.e. Winters Grasp) on a enemy,
that gets already attacked by 2 Warriors and has only 25% HP left... overkill...
Or stupid combos like hitting enemys 2-3 times with similar spell effects, that wont add(Paralyze/Sleep/Stun etc.) Oh! And dont forget the stupid situation, where they shoot Mage bolts or Arrows towards a enemy without Line of Sight! = blocked Shots. They should learn to move individually till meeting Free-Line of Sight-requirements.
4.You can really make your companions fight individually later on, when everyone gets more tactical options.
5. Yes. I give a Warrior the command to attack a certain enemy by right-clicking it and some attacks later he goes and runs a looooong way to a archer,  who shot him sometimes. Its not common, but happens some times.
Also they move too much when i right-click on the ground, so they will get into the flank of enemys; its like they dont want to stay there(glitching?) and move too much around.
6. You dont mean controls? I would prefer to hold the mousebutton, like in NWN, and the controled character
moves in the direction of the mouse-pointer.
IF you mean commands: I liked the SHIFT+Click movements for Infinity-Engine games!
So when you use the bird-perspective, you should be able to give characters pathways.


All in all i like the concept of the tactics menu and its possiblities.
BUT i almost never use it myself, because i play only on Nightmare(+ maybe some Mods like NM Plus)
and i ALWAYS use personal micromanagement. As long as the Characters attack an enemy that stands beside
them, instead of standing around, im happy with AI

Modifié par Sarevok Anchev, 06 janvier 2010 - 08:55 .

[chautemoc]

xCobalt wrote...

- make being grabbed or pinned down as a condition (ie: use Shield Bash if player is grabbed)

Grabbed is a condition.

[Evilbaboon]

I would like an option to make the tank hit the targets hitting a specific party member to get the aggro.

An option to allow certain spells not to be cast when specific requirements are met would be nice. I dont want my healer to start casting Heroic Offence or something similar when my tanks is below 50%. I want some tactics to have a higher priority than others.

With that being said I dont want the tactics system to play the game for me. I like the fact that I have to control my character directly to make any real use of crowd control effects. I play on nightmare difficulty so I still want it to be a challenge.

Modifié par Evilbaboon, 06 janvier 2010 - 08:54 .

[q0rra]

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?

It's both easy and intuitive.



What would you improve in the tactical interface?

I don't know. Nothing?



Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?

I think so, yes.



How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?

Responsive.



Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?

No, not that I can remember.



What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

I'd like to be able to set 'hold position' on individual party members.

[spanko2]

I think the tactics system is amazing and all around implemented well with a couple very specific annoyances that can be easily fixed, and have been by mods.



The first issue is that all point blank aoe effects like Taunt, Dual Weapon Sweep, and Two Handed Sweep don't work properly with tactics.



The second is a lack of an "IN COMBAT" options. For example say I have a Mage in my party and I want to setup a tactic to automatically cast Heroic Offense on another party member. There no "IN COMBAT" then "CAST HEROIC OFFENSE" option. If you just set the mage to cast heroic offense on a party member using "ANY" then they do it constantly whether you're in combat or not. The closest you can get is setting the mage to only cast it when the party members mana/stamina/health is under 100% but even then it's not ideal.



Basically I want an "IN COMBAT" status option with all the other statuses like sleep, grabbed, etc.

[Rolenka]

• How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
• What would you improve in the tactical interface?
• Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
• How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
• Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
• What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

Before we get to all that, my bigger requests:

I have a really hard time throttling my character's abilities. Setting them to fire only on enemies with a certain level of health or only when there is a certain level of mana/stamina helps, but they still blow their resources very early in the fight, or not at all. It's very difficult to find a middle ground.

It might help to be able to set two conditions for a single action,
without using up 2 tactics slots. (if tactic X, go to tactic Y, if tactic Y, perform Z). I could do
things like, if you have lots of stamina, and your target isn't almost dead, do Mighty Blow, for example.

While we're on the subject, having to use skill points to get tactic slots, which are a convenience and don't actually make you more powerful, annoys me. I'd much rather have all of my tactic slots available right out of the gate, no skill points or leveling required.

Now the rest:

I find it to be very easy to use and flexible.

One minor improvement could be made to the UI: When I set a tactic's action to "move to tactic X," if I reorder my tactics, it clears. I'd like it to remember which tactic I had selected.

Another improvement might be the ability to disable tactics on a specific character on-the-fly without having to enter the tactics menu or put the entire party on Hold Position.

The only time I've seen them behave as I would not expect is with "Self: Any --- Activate Modal Ability" at the bottom of all tactics. I expect them to activate this ability once not in combat, or if it gets turned off during an area transition or cutscene. Sometimes they don't check to turn it back on, which is the whole point..

I have heard, but not tested, that tactics targetting mages fail to do so. (like telling dog to Overwhelm a mage if he sees one)

They respond quickly to circumstances on the battlefield. I've never seen them do anything weird like get stuck in a loop or stand confused.

I'd like mages to be more careful about friendly fire, moving into
a better position if necessary. I suspect that pathfinding might be
resource-intensive, however.

[Kahpya]

My problem is that the tactic is to simple to set up. I would like there to be a more advance tactic system for more experienced gamers/players, most of the tactic works "okay" but there are some flaws.

You can't tell a character in the game to defend your mages, you can specify for one of them but at the price of one tactic slot. And with that in mind you don't get enough tactic slot even at high levels, which make the whole tactic system unusable.

It is more efficient to pause the game every sec. and give out commands yourself than use tactic system in major battles.
There's just not enough customization in the tactic system to allow players to fully appreciate that it's there.
The other problem is AoE spells, like "Cundu_Ertur" says the AI don't know when to use them. That goes for both your own and enemy characters.

The only time i really used the tactic system is for healer mage, where I think it really works great!
But beside that I'm disappointed in the system it has alot of potential but isn't used.

[evilhouseboat]

I usually try to control my party members as much as possible so I tend to set-up a very basic / generic tactic structure. I have currently only have 1 play through on normal on the PS3 version, but have additional characters in both the PC and PS3 version.

• How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
Setting up tactics is straight forward. In my opinion, making better use of tactics at harder difficulties adds a layer of depth to the game play, making multiple playthroughs more fun.
• What would you improve in the tactical interface?
Add group tactic options. i.e. Lure group, or charged assault in the action wheel.
• Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
Yes.
• How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
Very, although I usually take control of a character when I need them to do something I feel is important.
• Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?

Here is one problem I encountered. Let’s say I have party member 1 selected and move this character into a downfield position to continue an attack. Party member 2 is currently attacking something else. I select party member 3 (a range damaged class) in order to select a new target for this party member. During this time party member 2 kills their target and they run toward the party member 3 (away from combat) instead of assaulting the next closest enemy.

Also, sometimes when I turn on a sustained ability that is not part of the characters tactics, the sustained ability is turned off. Note the character didn’t die.

• What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

In the PS3 version it might be worthwhile to look at a targeting system combined with the right analog stick, and use the d-pad for group commands like all forward to attack, attack my target, heal me, etc… or custom group commands for the d-pad

I found targeting difficult with enemies like mages or archers who are usually at the back of a room. I would need to manually move a party member closer to them before it became possible to target them.

Modifié par evilhouseboat, 06 janvier 2010 - 09:04 .

[Coastwatcher]

I forgot, the Clustered condition is very limited. For example, none of the AOE spells if I recall, are associated with the Clustered condition. Wouldn't the main use for AOE spells be when the enemy are clustered ?

[Must have name]

As it stands, it's fairly easy to use, and the AI follows them all fairly well, so i've got no issues with that. What the tactics system does need is to become more complicated so you can do more complex things with it:

-Have a tactic to make characters want to flank people. If you have a Rogue it's nescessary to micromanage them for backstabs.
-Commands to differentiate between Stamina and Mana
-Simply, more triggers available
-Ability to combine commands. e.g. You're surrounded and high on health.

Honestly though, because of the lack of anything complicated i've just resorted to micromanaging my party and leaving the tactics system for certain things, usually emergency skills and upkeep skills.

Modifié par Must have name, 06 janvier 2010 - 09:05 .

[Cuthlan]

I'm pretty happy with the tactics system, although I wish there weren't restrictions on slots. The system is crippled by the fact that we have to spend skill points to open enough slots to make a high-level magic user function properly without being controlled.



Maybe a slot every level for all characters?

[Torias]

Victor Wachter wrote...

[*]What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?[/list]

That's the only part I can contribute to, since I personally disabled the tactics system completely.

Since it's a Party based RPG, I want to control my party :-)

I felt the tactics system didn't promote me controlling my party, and that anything I did with it was going to give results that were no where near as effective as my personal control over my party.

So I ended up spamming the space bar a LOT.

The improvements I personally desperately want are:

1) A global "Tactics Enable" button, next to the "Move Freely / Hold Position" button. That way I can make the effort of setting up some basic tactics, knowing that I can use the tactics for really basic / brainless encounters ("everyone smack an enemy until they fall down"), and still quickly disable them for the majority of combats where I want to control my party.

2) Some actual auto pause options:
a) The only current auto-pause option doesn't work that well, "Pause on combat started" actually fires almost a second or two too late, so I started manually pausing whenever enemies appeared, since it let my party start to react a lot sooner than waiting for the laggy auto-pause.

 responsive auto-pause options for:
i) Target Killed / Unavailable (after the party member's target is killed, or can no longer be reached.)
ii) Talent / Spell Used (after the party member uses any talent or spell, so that I can assign them the next one to use. This is absolutely necessary given the lack of an action queue).
iii) Move Order Complete (so that I can give party members a move order and then immediately sign them a target / talent usage after they get there).
iv) Party Member Stunned / Overwhelmed / Grabbed / Imobilised (so that I can adjust my battle plan to either rescue that party member or to cover for their lack of contribution to the combat).

3) When I select the whole party at once, show me all 4 hotkey bars (stacked vertically, so there are 4 lines instead of the current one line). Let me click on any of the icons to assign the talent usage to that party member and pick a target for them...

[Ambeth]

Not sure if this was tactic related, or not, but occasionally my non-controlled characters would just run into a fight. Not sure what circumstances were needed, but I know the 'poison-golem-room' did it. I had my party behind the corner away from the room so I would get a 'break' between the golems and I had a party member just try to run in after a golem died. When I controlled that character, the one I was JUST controlling attempted to run in. Rather annoying, and I can only blame it on something in the tactics.

I remember on another occastion that Wynne tried to run into a room I had just opened and was trying to LoS the enemies. I had her on something besides 'Default' and when I put her back on Default (as opposed to 'Ranged' or 'Defender' or the like) she never did it again. I was rather adverse to use anything but Default after that.

I found the whole tactic system rather overwhelming at first.  Still not sure I have a complete grasp of it, but then I tend to use the 'default' systems, rather than making my own.



(not really tactics related, but why do we get stuck in combat when a stealthed character 'sees' an enemy?)

Modifié par Ambeth, 06 janvier 2010 - 09:20 .

[Cypher Ash]

How would I improve the system?



-There should be more tactics slots.

-All tactics slots slots should be available at the start of the game.

-There should be more custom tactics pages and you should be able to save them

-You should be able switch between characters in the tactics page and not have to exit the screen.

-There should be a tactic that takes Friendly Fire into account. Because there's not I never get AOE spells with anybody except my main.

-You should have the option of disabling tactics on the character you control.

[ph1ldo]

[*]How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?

Super easy to use with lots of options for almost every situation.

[*]What would you improve in the tactical interface?

When it comes to using anything that can be considered a healer, there only seem to be enough tactic slots to keep a tank alive (depending on situations obviously, not everything hits like a truck being dropped from low orbit on your face) which usually results in me having to take over as the healer trying to conserve mana while at the same time keeping everyone from dying from large burst damage.

[*]Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?

Yes, but I wish bards would auto stop using captivating song after the conditions are no longer met, such as, if surrounded by 3 or more enemies use captivating song, kill enough so there are 2 enemies left, deactivate captivating song, at the moment to do this it takes 2 tactics slot, 1 to start, one to stop, is that really necessary? cant we just have it be smart enough to notice it doesnt meet the conditions anymore?

[*]How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?

Havent noticed anything horrendus yet, and im currently on my 3rd play through

[*]Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?

If you have a character's tactics set to the archer preset, for the love of god, they should auto switch back to a ranged weapon after being forced into a melee confrontation

[*]What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?[/list]
Its pretty much fine so far, just nit picking

Modifié par ph1ldo, 06 janvier 2010 - 09:37 .

[Sledge454]

Just include this mod with any tactics updates.  It works *much* better than the stock tactics.

http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=181

Modifié par Sledge454, 06 janvier 2010 - 09:34 .

[dan107]

The problem with the Tactics system is that it's quite handy in easy fights when you don't really need it, but simply does not cut it in the toughest battles IMO. There is just no way that you can program that thing to perfectly time ability use or get the perfect angles for AoE spells.

In all the hardest battles on Nightmare I switched off tactics for all my characters and controlled them manually. While I don't mind doing that, what got really annoying is that without a spell/ability queue I had to pause EVERY SECOND to time all the cooldowns which broke the pacing of the fights. So I would prefer to have a queue system back like in Kotor or NWN.

But it doesn't have to be an either or proposition. I think that tactics PLUS an ability queue would be a really neat combination. Tactics would work for 85% of the easier fights so you wouldn't even have to pause, and the ability queue would give you much finer control over the tougher situations without forcing you to play a constantly pausing slide show.