334 réponses à ce sujet

[dan107]

Also, MAJOR annoyance is that when melee characters get pushed back by an attack (High Dragon and Broodmother AoE come to mind) they for some reason lose the target and don't seem to reacquire it, so you have to select them all manually and tell them to attack again. A fix for that would be nice.

[ph1ldo]

dan107 wrote...

Also, MAJOR annoyance is that when melee characters get pushed back by an attack (High Dragon and Broodmother AoE come to mind) they for some reason lose the target and don't seem to reacquire it, so you have to select them all manually and tell them to attack again. A fix for that would be nice.

I have yet had this happen to me at all ever, and my party is generally 3 melee and a caster, 1 tank 2 dps 1 healer

[Scotthabs]

For PS3:

• Allow a means to give commands to each party member (for example, clicking on an enemy for tank to attack, then 'x')  without it unpausing on action wheel.
• Allow us to be able to pipoint spots to move each of our party members to when paused.
• Option for rogues to flank
• Option for condition  "when attacked by" to include melee, ranged AND magic, in addition to just one or two of them.
• Include an "if dead" conditon
• Include a condition for "if  x number of, or ALL allies are over/under/at a certain health/mana/stamina level"

Modifié par Scotthabs, 06 janvier 2010 - 09:59 .

[dan107]

ph1ldo wrote...

dan107 wrote...

Also, MAJOR annoyance is that when melee characters get pushed back by an attack (High Dragon and Broodmother AoE come to mind) they for some reason lose the target and don't seem to reacquire it, so you have to select them all manually and tell them to attack again. A fix for that would be nice.

I have yet had this happen to me at all ever, and my party is generally 3 melee and a caster, 1 tank 2 dps 1 healer

Odd. Happens to me every single time. Maybe it's because I have tactics disabled for the boss fights, but once I manually tell them to attack a target, I would think that they would be supposed to keep going after it until I tell them to stop, no? I shouldn't have to reissue a basic attack command every few seconds.

[ph1ldo]

dan107 wrote...

ph1ldo wrote...

dan107 wrote...

Also, MAJOR annoyance is that when melee characters get pushed back by an attack (High Dragon and Broodmother AoE come to mind) they for some reason lose the target and don't seem to reacquire it, so you have to select them all manually and tell them to attack again. A fix for that would be nice.

I have yet had this happen to me at all ever, and my party is generally 3 melee and a caster, 1 tank 2 dps 1 healer

Maybe it's because I have tactics disabled for the boss fights

This is why they act like they dont know what to do, because you have nothing set up to tell them what to do.

what i would recommend is leave tactics enabled, but leave all the spaces empty except for 1, that says if enemy: attack

Modifié par ph1ldo, 06 janvier 2010 - 09:49 .

[KigenBarzhad]

Sledge454 wrote...

Just include this mod with any tactics updates.  It works *much* better than the stock tactics.

http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=181

I'm inclined to agree with this statement in the most polite way possible. My only gripe with the original system is that there were not enough tactical examinations for example:
My main use of this mod was to have my companion use the Party Heal spell or Mass Rejuvanation when 2 or more of my members are at low heath or low mana/stamina respectively.


How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
It is easy to use and great for the beginning part of the game.  Towards the end of the game, I felt like it lacked the tactical assements I needed (thus I turned to Advance Tactics mod.)

What would you improve in the tactical interface?
-If 2 or more memebers meet X  condition ( <X% health, <x% stamina/mana, etc.)
-if 2 or more enemies are ...
-Altough I haven't tried it out yet, the AT (Advance Tactics mod) can switch between presets, this seems like it could be an impressive feature.
-Only in combat mode condition

Better behaviors, I would like a "Tank" behavior. Defender just doesn't do what I would like.

Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
Sometimes. For instance, sometimes even though drinking a potion under 25% is the highest priority, my character would rather use an ability or keep attacking. I most often need to pause then have my members drink them manually.

How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
Sometimes, even though drinking a potion under 25% is the highest
priority, my character would rather use an ability or keep attacking. I
most often need to pause then have my members drink them manually.

Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
See above.

What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?
See above.

Side note: Any chance of getting the "Increases Hostility" property up and running?

[DarkJudg3s]

I would like to set flanking.

For example, If I am against a large group I would like my archer to move to the side and be able to attack from there w/o me controlling it to the place. Or for rogues to get behind and back stab.

[Ambeth]

Oh, one more thing. Seemed to me, if I selected the whole party and bid them attack something, they wouldn't use their tactics at all, until a) I changed the selection to only one character AND they killed the thing I told them to attack (might simply have been until they finished the default attack they were doing when I deselected them). I can kind of understand them not using tactics if they are all selected, but it's clunky to have to bid each character to attack something, if I want a specific mob killed before all others.

[Lohe]

Everything with tactics is fine on my xbox-version. Got familar very soon with it. No noticed errors in this part of the game.



I only miss an option that teammembers can do a health potion on me and not only on themselves.

[intellego]

[*]How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
I think that the tactic system is fairly intuitive to learn to use at a basic level. It does take some time and experimenting to figure out how to leverage the system so that your characters behave in an effective manner.


[*]What would you improve in the tactical interface?
I would add some additional criteria to the tactics options. One problem I encountered is that there isn't a way that I have found to tell an NPC to revive a fallen companion.


[*]Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
I am generally happy with the way that my companions behave with regards to their tactics settings. I really like this feature as it allows me to shape the behavior of my party without having to micromanage everyone.


[*]How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
In general my characters are fairly responsive to different situations considering the instructions that I have set in the tactics section.


[*]Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
I have seen some unusual behavior at times. My companions cannot determine that a destructible barrier is preventing them from reaching an opponent and they are sometimes slow to react to enemies approaching unless I have attacked or been attacked first.


[*]What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?
I generally like the tactics system as it exists. It could use some tweaks but it is invaluable for my enjoyment in that I can set instructions for my companions to follow and generally not having to micromanage them throughout a combat.

[Sledge454]

KigenBarzhad wrote...

Sledge454 wrote...

Just include this mod with any tactics updates.  It works *much* better than the stock tactics.

http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=181

I'm inclined to agree with this statement in the most polite way possible. My only gripe with the original system is that there were not enough tactical examinations for example:
My main use of this mod was to have my companion use the Party Heal spell or Mass Rejuvanation when 2 or more of my members are at low heath or low mana/stamina respectively.

I think the effect of the mod is more than just more choices.  The characters take less time to perform the action.  I've noticed that with vanilla tactics, for example, getting a character to stop fighting and use a poultice because their health is too low takes several actions (meaning he/she continues to fight for a few more seconds) while with the AT mod, as soon as the condition is met, the character will do the action right away.  If you selected a lowish health (say 25%) by the time they stop to use the poultice, they may get killed by the last enemy blow.

Yes, the increased selection of actions is also nice.  A big one was being able to select dead characters so your spirit healer can use Revival.

Modifié par Sledge454, 06 janvier 2010 - 10:19 .

[soteria]

I think the think that annoys me the most in the tactics is the targetting. Say I have my first tactic to "Target of main character: Attack," and my second to, "Enemy rank Boss: Below the Belt," what I expect that to do is always follow the target of my main character, and use Below the Belt if my target is a boss. What actually happens is they generally follow my main characters target, and any time they see a boss and Below the Belt is off cooldown, they run over to use that ability on the boss.



I can "fix" it by using two tactic slots, but that sort of thing is pretty annoying, and it's hard to get around imo.

[Trailfoot]

I've had a great deal of trouble getting characters to stay with their ranged weapons... they seem to want to switch to melee far too often.



Some things I'd like to see:



1. It not taking a Tactics slot for every Sustained ability I want to make sure is always active. Some option at the bottom of the Tactics screen to set my "always-on" Sustained abilities would be a great help in making the Tactics mechanic more usable.



2. Being able to have a character's AI change to a different tactics set under certain circumstances - for example, if I've trained the Warden in both Bow and Two Weapon, and have Tactics setups for each of those, being able to have her automatically switch to the two-weapon set when an enemy enters melee and the bow set when no enemies are at melee.



Those are the big changes I'd like to see.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I would like to see the tactics system not deactivate sustained abilities for no reason. If I have a tactical instruction to activate some other ability that precludes the one that's already on, fine, follow the written tactic and deactivate the other sustained ability, but otherwise I really want sustained abilities I activate to stay active until I turn them off or a tactical instruction requires that they be turned off.

It's like the tactics system assumes an excluded middle, where if I didn't tell the game to keep something active then I must want it not to be active. But that's nonsense.

If I turn on Berserk, Berserk should stay on until I deactivate it. If I turn on Shield Wall, Shield Wall should stay active until I disable it (unless I have the tactics page set up to use Shield Cover or something, which would then require that Shield Wall be deactivated).

If I haven't given a character an instruction regarding a certain ability, I want that character to take no action toward that ability. They should not turn it on, and they should not turn it off.

And they should all work the same way. Don't disable Blood Magic at the end of combat unless you're going to disable all sustainable abilities at the end of combat.

[Abriael_CG]

A very very important condition missing in the tactic interface, that would make it works lots better is Self -> In combat and Self -> Out of combat.

It would seriously help those like me that are massively bothered by buff effects while no combat is involved but don't want to turn them on and off every 5 seconds.



Also, i would definitely increase the tactics slots. It's hard to create decently complex routines with the few slots provided.

[Morroian]

My comments will be a reiteration of other comments in the thread but I add them for emphasis. I generally liked the tactical system and found it easy to use. I did have some issues with characters standing around doing nothing in the middle of fights and I did get irritated by characters not taking health or lyrium potions due to them being targeted. The improvements I'd make are:



- When the cmd to use a potion is activated have the character disengage and take the potion.

- Nested tactical command statements using boolean operators.

- Flanking cmd for rogues

- Review the advanced tactics mod and implement it in the main game.

- Friendly fire check by mages before casting aoe spells.

- formation tactics

- remove the number of tactical slots from the skill tree and be able to use the maximum.

- tactics to ensure characters don't wander to far from the group on suicide missions if you don't want them to.

- movement or disengage tactics.

- have an option to have the player controlled character use tactics automatically until I want to step in and direct them.

[devil_foetus]

Never used the tactics system, (it appeared) too complex and the fact that slots have to be unlocked doesn't do any good for its appeal. Id rather not waste skill points on them, better using the points on actual skills.

Maybe if all the slots were unlocked by default and there was some more default choices to select from which could be modified.

Modifié par devil_foetus, 06 janvier 2010 - 10:55 .

[Kahpya]

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
I think the tactical interface is very easy to use (to easy to be exact).

What would you improve in the tactical interface?
I would like to se that there was a primary condition and a second condition for more control and customization in tactics of the character.  

Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
yes, since the tactic system is so simple the charcerters react to the system setup completely.

How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
the problem isn't that they don't response, I have a problem with the worrior, lets say that i've made condition that if attacked by range he use his shield abillity to maximize deflection from arrows, but if he is attacked by melee he use this abillity to maximize the damage reduction towards melee, so if he encounter a melee and a archer and they both attack he will use stamina for activating first the one ability and then the other, the stamina use is then doubled for the lack of prioritizing the use of abilities.

Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
read above.

What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?
I like how i can control the party, I just want a hold key for individual character for archers to hold on a platform and shoot from there and for rouge to be stealth so when the group of enemys can charge through him and he can start backstabing when i "unhold" him again.[/list]

[Girchou]

everything is pretty much great!

one thing is,easy is too easy.

[KethWolfheart]

I used the tactic system all the time.  Usually started with a defualt and then customized as needed, although some defaults were much better than others.  Overall I used it about 80% of the time, even with big battles.  I mainly focused on my own guy except for certain important fights - where I would step in now and then to fine tune things.

Important to point out I played mostly on "normal" setting though so harder settings might have had me do more micromanagement..

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use? >> Pretty easy overall  I would have liked a few more explanations on what a few things did and how it worked but overall was fairly intuitive.

What would you improve in the tactical interface? >>  Maybe a pop-up window indicating what each basic setting (or group) did.  Some are easy to understand but a few it was unclear.  For example I was never totally sure how certain spells or attacks might work on the range targets - would they move into range or waste a spell?  what was the difference between the RED enemy target versus some of the WHITE self attacked by differences?  If you used a TARGET command would that only apply if the character actually had a target already picked?  Anyhow a little more detail on some basic functions would have been nice.

Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings? >> Most of the time.  The exceptions mainly focused on MELEE and RANGE changes.  Archers would switch to melee and not back.  It seemed to be inconsistent.  I gave up using archers in general.  Also the Mage AOE had some issues.  That needs to be tighter on control.  Like group of 3 or more enemies with no allies near as a condition.

How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?  >> Overall pretty good.  It was always a nice surprise when I would see Wynne heal me or someone else that I hadn't noticed was about to go under.  Also Morrigan keeping things under control.  Alistair did great as a tank.  I often only had to focus only on my own character.

Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?  >> Sometimes they would just stop fighting and I could never figure out why - nothing had been disabled.  It seemed that the HOLD flag was buggy - you would take them off hold and they would not react (even after a "round" or two).

What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?  >>  I would like another heal option, for around the health < 30 or 35% area.  50% was often a waste of a potion or spell and 25% was often a bit to late if hit with a powerful spell.  Also abilty to follow up with a spell combo.  For example Morrigan casting SLEEP on a cluster of RANGED attackers followed immediatley with NIGHTMARE would have been great.
[/list]

Modifié par KethWolfheart, 06 janvier 2010 - 11:33 .

[Jesse Squire]

Overall, I found the interface for the tactics system intuitive and easy to use.  Kudos to the designers for creating a solid interface.  As general feedback, I'd like to see it extended so that I can micro-manage when I'd like to do so, rather then feeling the need to do so because I don't trust the AI.  Some specific suggestions:

Increase the Number of Tactic Slots Available

Provide a reasonable number of tactic slots (25+) for all characters.  I understand the need to balance the responsiveness of the combat against the pool of tactics slots, but I found both the the initial pool and the fully expanded pool to be limiting.  For example, I like to create different rulesets that I activate/deactivate on a situational basis.  The small pool is prohibitive to this, and also impacts the usefulness of the "Jump To" rule.


Untie Tactics Slots From Skills

If the tactics system is meant to give us a way to script our companions such that we can trust them to act on their own, why cripple that system by forcing us to spend precious skill points to expand the available pool?  I don't understand why they are related, nor why the designers would feel that forcing a choice between a skill or more tactics slots enhances gameplay.  I'd greatly prefer to be able to experiment with skills like trapmaking that I normally bypass rather than electing to spend the point on additional tactic slots.


Recognize More Character Statuses and Scenarios

Specifically, it would be useful to be able to determine if a player was unconcious, in the grasp of an enemy (such as an Ogre), incapacitated by some means (Paralysis, Crushing Prison, Sleep, etc) so that companions could provide a more intelligent response.


Allow For Compound Conditionals

I would really like to see the ability to chain conditionals together to form more complex rules.  For example: "If an ally is 50% health, then cast regenerate.  At the least, I think that it would be helpful to have basic AND, OR, and NOT support.


Thank you for a wonderful game, and for allowing us to offer opinions to improve it.

Modifié par Jesse Squire, 06 janvier 2010 - 11:35 .

[guytza]

I use the tactics religiously, some players prefer to micromanage and it works for them I'm sure, but its really just not my style.



The two things that I did to change the tactics were.

1. I added the Advanced Tactics 2.8 mod that was previously linked and mentioned. Since then I've not really had any situation that could not be programmed out. It may be worth a look to see what was changed and how.

2. I modified the exptable.gda file to include 20 tactics slots at all levels. I can certainly see why the choice was made to gradually introduce the system to the player since all those slots may be overwhelming at first, but having a programming background, I did not have much trouble wrapping my head around it.



Tweaks I'd like to see.

The option to make rogues go for backstabs instead of the default attack.

Enemy:nearest > Flank attack for example where flank tells the AI to move to the dark area of the targets circle.

I'm still working on a way to automatically use poisons when going against a harder enemy.



For mages, I'm still struggling with some way to avoid friendly fire, fireball and bombs being the biggest offenders. But I think that may be asking too much of the tactics engine as it would involve checks against the position of allies against the area effect of the spell.



these are minor concerns though, as on the whole I can usually leave most of my companions on their own without them wondering which end of the sword goes in the other guy (Spoiler: It's the pointy end.)

[Stabby McGoodstab]

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?

I think it's simple to use. Admittedly, I played Final Fantasy XII so I was used to it already.

What would you improve in the tactical interface?

The interface itself? Nothing, it's pretty straightforward and it works for me.

Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?

Most of the time, yes. It might be just me, but it seems that the tactic [3 clustered enemies or greater] or somesuch doesn't work. I don't think I've ever seen Leliana use Scattershot while it was set to that condition.

How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?

I'm not quite sure what you're asking, to be honest.

Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?

Yes, often.

Leliana was set to Ranged/Archer mode. I had this tactic set on her: [Being attacked by melee attack] -> [Switch to melee weapons]. When the conditions were met, she'd immediately switch to her melee weapons, and then switch back to her ranged weapons. She'd keep switching between the two until her attacker was killed or changed targets. I think the problem is that she changes weapons but she doesn't change her target to the melee attacker.

Melee attackers like Alistair have sometimes just stood still despite being attacked. Their weapons were drawn, abilities were activated, but they didn't seem interested in attacking the enemies. One tactic example that I had on Alistair was: [Enemy health >= 50%] -> [Use: Shield Bash], yet it wouldn't always trigger at the start of a battle. He would also sometimes stop attacking an enemy for no reason and just stand still with weapons drawn.

Those were my two bigger issues. This one is not related to the tactics system, but I feel I should mention it anyway. The Hold Position command is a bit too strict. If I turn it on and command Alistair to attack an enemy, he'll go and do it just fine. However, if the enemy moves just 2 inches from a Shield Bash or something else, Alistair stops attacking instead of moving that extra two inches. Maybe you could allow a small static movement radius around the character so he would approach a knocked-down target but won't chase him should he decide to flee.

What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

I can't think of any other than new tactics. Maybe a follow-up tactic of some sort? Such as:

[1] -- [Nearest enemy] -> [Shield Bash]
[2] -- [If tactic 1 is successful] -> [Assault]



Overall, the tactics systems works fairly well, but I rarely rely on it. I tend to take direct control of the party members instead of letting the tactics decide the battle for me. Some spells and abilities are just too situational or difficult for the tactics system to manage. More straightforward characters like warriors work okay on tactics alone, but mages are far too complex. For example, Glyph of Warding or Glyph of Repulsion can't be properly cast by the tactics system, I don't think.

[Ghandorian]

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?

The learning curve for Tactics is appropriate for the rest of the game. I got the hang of it by the second play through as being someone with little to no previous experience setting scripts.





What would you improve in the tactical interface?

The template scripting in the top right needs to factor in better somehow. Making it a primarily setting on the left that people are more aware of perhaps? Oh and having them turn off sustained powers after a fight would be good without using a slot.



Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?

Except for running into AOE like Blizzard spell when the default thing says "will leave area of affect spells" all seemed ok.



How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?

The longer tactics strings have problems with this.



Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?

Leaving combat to run over beside the selected party member is annoying and I am not sure why it happens sometimes and not others.



What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

na

[Sresla]

[*]How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
[/list]Not bad. Early on though, you are starved for tactic slots, but adding more will hopefully edge this off at the pass. Too, some of the terminology seems a little non-intuitive, like enemy clustered versus surrounded by.
[*]What would you improve in the tactical interface?
[/list]The interface itself seems fine to me. Oh, one thing - the default selections, and I don't know if it's something I've done to muck it up or not, but let's say we set Zevran to 'Scrapper', and then you alter some tactics and save them into Custom 1. Now, I switch to Custom 1, but if I try to switch back to 'Scrapper', all the tactics in that default pre-set are blank. I'm not sure why this is, it may indeed be something I did but it happens to different characters which I find annoying - because I like to sometimes compare what the game considers higher priority versus what I think should be happening.
[*]Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
[/list]I think yes. I think the tactics are probably fine, there's just some AI failure along the way (like always having rogues try to get behind the mob for backstabbing or the archer/melee switch).
[*]How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
[/list]Fairly good, but the reason I've now opted to play a healer is because I didn't like how Wynne performed. For example, there was no way (without completely clogging all her tactics) to prioritize who gets what buffs and even if you choose to use your tactics for that, the chance she'll overwrite a buff that's only half expired is pretty high. And, even if healing is set highest priority, there's no way to order her to say, conserve her resources to ensure she'll have the mana to do it if needed.
[*]Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
[/list]Yes. I don't know if this is because they're in an odd position and can't attack a mob or the mob is somewhere weird, but sometimes the group members will stand still and their tactics will flicker past like they're trying to do them but can't. I get around this by doing a select all/attack sequence to sort of "reset" them.
[*]What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?[/list]I take this to mean what sort of tactical commands would we like added. The tactic add-on does indeed cover a lot of ones that are missing from the current interface (the reason I downloaded it to begin with was because I wanted the 'Dead' conditional to allow me to use Revive) and should be added. The other thing that I haven't figured out how to do (admittedly, because I am a 'pause combat' addict) is making some sort of use conditional for poisons - if X is not active, apply Y. When using my favorite companion, Zevran, I tried a few different combinations to try to get him to apply them on his own (only in combat and self:any) but it just caused him to stand there once he applied them and since I tend to use different poisons during different fights I just stopped trying to mess with it. Also, it didn't seem to acknowledge poison stacks - once he had used whatever poison, the tactic was cleared so there was nothing left to use, even though I had more of the same poison in my inventory (so it didn't seem to recognize it, like it does stacks of health potions). The if X is not active, apply Y sort of tactic would also work nicely for buffs, and in reverse, if X is already active, apply Y to someone else, or simply do something else. Edit: Also, forgot this one, it seems that if left on their own, the party members do tend to switch targets a lot, even if you're not using a 'Highest Health' or 'Highest armor' sort of conditional. I can't remember what fight I was doing, but I wanted everyone to kill the mage, so I set them all to attacking it and then all of a sudden Alistair was running across the room going after some archer. An 'apply tactics until current target is dead' option would be nice.

Modifié par Sresla, 07 janvier 2010 - 12:05 .