334 réponses à ce sujet

[Journeys1959]

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?

-> After being away from the PC for some time it was so amazing to get back to having a keyboard and mouse as a GUI!  It was fairly intuitive (I have 100+ hours in).  Really liked the pause feature on the space bar.  Ability to get a god view made alot of the action direction more intutive (I did play this a bit on the 360 and was amazed how much I missed that feature.   I did play mainly in the 3rd person mode on the pc to feel more immersed in the world.  Like the tab feature.  Please keep the pause and the tab keys!

[*]What would you improve in the tactical interface? 
[/list] Would have liked more buttons on the bottom bar, as you get later in
the game there are alot more items that would have been nice to have on
the bar to remind me I had them.  Also would be nice if there was a 'common item bar' so that I didn't have to build one for every character.  Would like a character cycle button on the keyboard.  Also would be nice to have the ability to keep assignments of characters to function keys...maybe on the character select screen if next to the slot you put the function key label that would help me remember.  This also applies to the screen... Its just that there are times you need to just monitor a health of one of you guys but if they are not in the slot you usually look you can mess up (yes I did). 

Getting two or three characters to move together would be nice.  It seems like it wants to do this but it never worked right.  It would be nice to have my mages stay and have my tank and dps go forward and attack.  I always ended up moving one at a time.  I also was never sure if attacking something wanted a left click or a right click.  Both seemed to work and not work.  I would click a spell or special attack and it would show next the characters name then when I clicked to attack it would dissappear and say attack.  Maybe its me and I missed something in the instructions.
[*]Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
[/list]Simple answer is not always.  (see above for the manual part).  For the auto response I was very frustrated with what was there but I don't want you to stop trying.  You have something here thats inbetween persona 3 and person 4.  In 3 you had some default behaviors and then the ai just did it all.  In p4 it was all operator no automation.  I liked p3 approach because it made it seem more like you were in a party with players who may not do what you would do or in the way you would do it.  You as the commander gave them a role and then they played it out.  But it was way to simple.  You have got more here but its not quite working right.  I think its too simple a syntax to support what is needed.  I really would like to see what would happen if you allowed for some if than else behavior.  Especially on the pc side.  I really was hoping that I could script my supporting characters to a behavior that I wanted.  If you really want to keep amping up the complexity of the battles I would really like to see the auto behavior system get more robust.  Others will disagree but I don't really like playing four characters.  Rather just play one and have three others on my team helping me out.  I want to train them and command them but I don't want to be them.

How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions? 

See above.  One of the things that would help me at least is to have a place on the map I could go and test out actions that I had programmed in, instead of putting it together and then trying it in game space.

Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
Yeah.  The one that is most entertaining is watching them stand there get beat up and not attacking.  Or standing there while another party member gets pummelled as they stand there.  Even though they are programmed not to do that.  I have to go in there and manually move them.  Great fun when they are in a melee situation and they put away the sword and take out the bow.  Oh what fun.  Spells that don't happen (yes they are charged, no they are not stunned or whatever).  A great one is getting stuck behind a door during an attack.  Actually had to select the whole group and move them so they would get out from behind the door.  Another fun one is selecting from the character screen and it not letting me...having to quit the game and restart for it to work.  I know this is a big game but some of the stuff I have seen really shouldn't have been there.
[*]What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?[/list]Mind control?  Kidding.  Please don't go to ATB (active time battle).  I really like that you can pause and consider stradegy.  I know this probably wouldn't be popular but it would be fun if they didn't act just like icons on the screen.  To see them change over time in how they behave on combat (brave, cowardly, taking cover, range or melee) based on how they are developinig in the story...not just experience points.  It would be neat to see how they related to each other and the other skills they have come into play on how they moved and acted in combat.  What you are doing in the non-combat area of how choices are changing character relations would be interesting to see in the combat part of the game.  If you think of it, the combat part really has not change much at its core.  Level up and go.  It would be a different component of tactics and yeah would add a random part...but thats more roll playing isn't?  If a dice roll has shown that what should be easy doesn't always work...just like life.

[LightPhoenix]

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?

I thought the tactical interface was relatively easy to use.  That said, I only used it for default behavior, when I didn't care about playing the battle tactically.  I'm sure there may have been some deeper complexity I could have delved into, but by the point it would have become necessary, I would be controlling the party manually.  I generally used it to prevent my characters from blowing their wad when I wasn't attending to them.

What would you improve in the tactical interface?

The big thing I would improve is that there needed to be an ability to trigger an ability based on groups.  A basic example would be Mass Heal, where I should be able to (easily) have it trigger if all allies are <XX% hit points.  A more useful example would be to detect if party members are in a mage's area of effect before casting.

Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?

Generally, yes.  However, again, aside from a default behavior, most of the time I would control them manually.

How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?

See Above.

Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?

The big one is Force Field, both allies and enemies.

What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

I think the tactics system works very well for default behaviors, but often I'll want fine control over my group.  I think the system as a whole would be more useful if there were a GUI on the screen that let me change quickly between different Tactics set-ups (ie, Ranged vs. Melee).  That would allow a level between manual and default that would be very nice to have.

Modifié par LightPhoenix, 07 janvier 2010 - 03:51 .

[TastyLaksa]

I'll let you know what I think this Holiday Season, or January 5th.

[El-Destructo]

* What would you improve in the tactical interface?

More conditionals, such as AND statements, so we can check multiple conditions before using an ability.
Enemy: Target has X conditions that actually check the current target.
More tactic slots without having to waste precious skill points on them.
Bug fixes. A lot of them.

The Advanced Tactics mod has a lot of nice fixes and additions in it.



* Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?

Not particularly. Many conditions are not intuitive. For instance, Enemy: Target has high armor checks against every target on the field and causes your party to scatter looking for targets when they ought to be checking their current targets armor value.



* Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?

Point blank aoe abilities like dog howl and two handed sweep bug out when you try to use them with Enemies: Clustered. Character will be stuck failing to use the ability.

Ranged allies drop target and stop attacking after each shot when at very long range.

Allies get stuck trying to use an item on cooldown such as potions.

Some Area Effect abilities aren't usable with Enemies: Clustered mechanic, like Scattershot.



* What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

Archers could use a new stance in between Cautious and Ranged in aggressiveness. One where they only use bows, defend themselves without needing to be told, but don't pull everything in the dungeon on your party.

Modifié par El-Destructo, 07 janvier 2010 - 04:21 .

[Fredescu]

I didn't use the tactics system all that much, not because I disliked it, but because I got such a buzz out of micromanaging absolutely everything. It's seriously my favourite combat system in any game in any genre. While I'm sure many would welcome a revamped tactics system in future releases, I would hope that the micromanagement abilities weren't curbed in the process.

[Primordial Instinct]

A guide on what some of those conditions are caused from/what they do.... would be nice, since there is no combat text it is a very tedious process to start stop the combat and go through you party to see if they are affected by anything. Not to mention that spell names do not freeze on the screen when you hit pause.....it is very frustrating. Also there is no dead/mostly dead condition. It would be nice to have one so we could tell the healer to resurect dead party member. Those are my two biggest hang-ups.

[ibender]

There are a few important things I think should be added to the system.

0) MORE SLOTS  2x the current allocations would feel adequate. (Or as many as will fit in memory )

1) The ability to cast revival based on a check to see if the party member is dead. 

2) A combined "Self Health" and "Ally Health" condition. You currently have to use 2 slots to set up a normal heal rule.

3) "And" and "or" operators. so you can do things like this on one line:
if(self.health > 50% && self.mana < 25%)  use that one ability that sacrifices health to refill mana

4) A command that will make a rogue move into the backstab area.

5) A "flee" command for party members low on health or ranged attackers

6) A condition that can be checked to make efficient use of group heal, like "N party members' health < X" (this N should include "self" in the count).

7) Conditions for explicit amounts of HP, stamina and mana, as opposed to percentages.

8) A way to make the controlled party member execute tactics.

That's all I can think of for now. I like the game a lot, so keep it up!

[madswm]

well I think Ill give a go.

I will adress the points chronologically as you wrote them. (please excuse my spelling and grammar, it may be sub standard of what some deliver in here. )

- The tactics system is easy enough, it may even be alittle too simple, atleast for me. i like turn based RPG's alot, and i think this system is a good way to try and bring both action and the turn based system together. That said i would like if i had more tactic spots available. I often find myself lagging in spots and i have to stop the game all the time if i want to do more advanced manouvers. and yes that the characters tatic skill slots are determened by the points youve put into cunning and tatic skill.  Anyhow i would like it if i could predetermine evrything i wanted them to do beforehand, so that i could simply focus on my main character. 

So to sum up, more tactic slots please . evrything else is fine. 

- Im pretty happy with it as it is, i never find myself lagging in options to do in there only slots in wich to do them ofcourse you could make it so that its a choice so that those who like the hack and slash feeling can simply tune down the tactics and vise versa.

-  Mostly yes ´, cant think of any instances where they didnt if i do ill edit this post.

- As far as i've noticed yes.

- Cant come up with anythong right now ill edit if i find something.
-  If u could make it turn based for my sake that would be just peachy .


Even though i find it abit repetetive at some times, i really do love this game and the storyline makes up for the boredom i sometimes feel when hacking my way though to the juicy story, but hell all in all im a happy little chimp!
/Mads Out.

[Clovis-]

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
- Very easy, but I have experience in programing.


What would you improve in the tactical interface?
- Better default options (like improved AoE AI with mages, backstabbing/stealth with rogues); take out the skill to enable more tactic slots, and just have them all available

Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
- Only if I set the tactics myself, or with simple tasks; otherwise their AI is very limited


How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
- Unresponsive by the default settings, again, similar to the previous question


Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
- Definately; they react strangely to AoE spells (like running away, even on easy), and often get confused with targets and pathfinding


What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?
- I think better default types for specific jobs, like stealth, range, AoE, support, etc. should be created. The default ones in DA:O are terrible in actually doing what I expect of them. And micro managing to every last detail with every character can be tedius.

- I would like alternate tactic sets that I can switch on the fly for my party. Similar to how I can switch weapons. I can try mixing two tactic types with one set, but there are never enough slots, or the AI just doesnt respond properly.

Modifié par Clovis-, 07 janvier 2010 - 05:30 .

[MalikB]

[*]How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
[/list]I found it to be very intuitive.
[*]What would you improve in the tactical interface?
[/list]The interface itself is fine. However, I dislike that we're required to "waste" skill points in order to open up more tactical slots.
[*]Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
[/list]I've had tactics set up to target the enemy with the highest health. Instead of staying and finishing off the target, as I would expect to happen, they'll sometimes stop attacking and move on once the enemy's health has dipped below the next highest on the field.
[*]How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
[/list]More responsive than I expected them to be. Just a few snags here and there that are easily rectifiable with a simple pause.
[*]Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
[/list]I've had issues with the "surrounded by x enemies" settings not triggering.
[*]What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?
[/list]The only thing I find myself wishing for is a "self -> status -> attacking" or "self -> status -> being attacked" tactic.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Although I am not having any trouble understanding the tactical interface I always turn the feature off. The main scheme the party members follow is: Kill any mages first (ignore the boss), paralyze boss, kill other enemies (and make sure the boss stays paralyzed) and once everything but the boss is killed concentrate on the boss. There is no way I can automate that. So, I have to do it manually. Sorry.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 07 janvier 2010 - 06:54 .

[T1l]

•  How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?

    I don’t know if it matters or not, but I have some extremely basic knowledge of “if-then” and “if-then-else” statements. I would never claim to be an expert in any matter regarding conditional programming, but I did find that the little knowledge I do have helped me understand immediately what Dragon Ages’ Tactics were. I found the system intuitive and easy to understand, if a little bit too basic. It would have been nice to see more options, say, “advanced” tactics, for those among us who wish a little more depth to NPC AI.

    People without a basic knowledge of if-then statements, like my girlfriend for example, might need some time to come to grips with now to set up appropriate parameters – but for the record, even my girlfriend after 150 hours of gameplay is just as adept as I am in creating solid team tactics.


•  What would you improve in the tactical interface?

    The actual interface can be clumsy at times when a character has a lot of skills to choose from (like with a mage), but generally, the actual interface widow is clear, easy to use, and easy to understand. There is very little or no ambiguity at all, which is great. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that whoever designed the tactical interface deserves a pat on the back – they did a great job.


•  Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?

    Generally, yes, however there are some unusual AI discrepancies every now and then. For example; setting a character to use mana-clash on mages doesn’t always work – your NPC may use mana-clash on an enemy who doesn’t have mana. I’m not sure what’s causing this, in fact, it may not have anything to do with tactics at all but rather that the enemy is flagged as a caster instead of melee (even though it doesn’t have mana). I’m not sure. That aside, I haven’t noticed any oddities.

    Aside from the above, I can honestly say that any AI quibbles I’ve had have been my own fault.


•  How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?

    Most of the time, very responsive. Again, I’ve had some issues with my party members doing odd things but they’re few and far between and none of them have ever been game breaking. If something does go wrong, I can always pause combat and give direct orders; the system is win/win. Sometimes healers aren’t as on top of their game as I’d like them to be, but overall, I can’t complain.


•  Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?

    Yes. I have my tactics set up so ranged enemies are a priority; especially mages. This can lead to melee characters wigging out and taking absurd pathing routes to get to unusual targets, regardless of what is in-between them and their newly found target. Again, this doesn’t happen that often for it to be a real issue, and when it does happen I can pause the combat and assign the character an order that is more appropriate. It is strange when it happens though, and the only thing I can put it down to is terrain. It’s probably not a tactics issue at all, but rather a generic pathing problem associated to all NPCs.


•  What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

    As I mentioned, the only thing I can see improving the tactics from how they are now is by adding more conditionals for those of us who want them – and expanding tactics past 13. I’ve had a real issue with my mages simply because there isn’t enough tactic slots to make the character behave like I’d wish; I’ve had to cull offensive tactics for defensive ones due to their not being enough room.

    The only other change that would be nice is a thorough tutorial. As I said in regard to the first question, for new-comers who have never seen that kind of AI tinkering before, it can be quite daunting and confusing. The tutorial that is currently in the game is fine, but a more in-depth one, one that basically holds a new-comers hand and assumes zero prior knowledge might be an idea.


    In closing, the only other thing I’d wish to add is that I think the tactics system is one of the parts of Dragon Age that is a clear winner. It’s a triumph, and for those people who worked on it – massive kudos.

Awesome job, and thanks for listening.

Modifié par T1l, 07 janvier 2010 - 07:14 .

[Xeo808]

i skimmed thru the posts here in an attempt not to repeat any ideas for poll purposes id like to say that i thought the tactics system was easy to use one woe i had with it though is that in certain situations i like focus fire and when a target died each party member seemed to hit whatever did the most damage to them while they were killing one target if the tactics menu had an option where they could automatically target the target of a certain party member unless assigned to do other wise that would be great

Modifié par Xeo808, 07 janvier 2010 - 07:28 .

[DragonRageGT]

I use custom settings and selected behavior for all companion in all my playthroughs... even to those that will not make past the Origins or the Ritual. All my runs in NM. It works just fine to me. I don't know what would be my vote though.



When you ask "tweaks" or "Modification" as you referring to the pre-set tactics and behavior or the use of player-made mods? There are a few out there that I'm considering to try out, specially the ones expanding the number of slots for tactics and giving more actions to be set there than given by the game

[DragonRageGT]

Clovis- wrote...

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
- Very easy, but I have experience in programing.

[/list] Same here and I have no experience in programming

Clovis- wrote...
What would you improve in the tactical interface?
- Better default options (like improved AoE AI with mages, backstabbing/stealth with rogues); take out the skill to enable more tactic slots, and just have them all available

[/list]- Well said! I'll make his words mine as well!

Clovis- wrote...
Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
- Only if I set the tactics myself, or with simple tasks; otherwise their AI is very limited

[/list]- Agreed!

Clovis- wrote...
How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
- Unresponsive by the default settings, again, similar to the previous question

[/list]- Takes a while for them to respond for me. Few secs or milisecs but still seems long enough.

Clovis- wrote...
Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
- Definately; they react strangely to AoE spells (like running away, even on easy), and often get confused with targets and pathfinding

[/list] - Same here and it's weird how the "Agressive" ones will chase the farthest enemy in sight instead of the nearest visible as defined! Might be my bad choice of orders though.

Clovis- wrote...
What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?
- I think better default types for specific jobs, like stealth, range, AoE, support, etc. should be created. The default ones in DA:O are terrible in actually doing what I expect of them. And micro managing to every last detail with every character can be tedius.

- I would like alternate tactic sets that I can switch on the fly for my party. Similar to how I can switch weapons. I can try mixing two tactic types with one set, but there are never enough slots, or the AI just doesnt respond properly.

[/list]- Same here! While I don't mind that much micromanaging the ones that I can't have a slot to handle, on the fly switch would be great! I also would like to have more options for the quickbar, than 1-10 only. I expand it to the edge of the screen and in wide screen it gets really large. I place stuff on both ends and with empty slots between them to distingh, when I don't have all of them used. I would like hotkeys for those past 1-10. Perhaps shift+1-10 and ctrl+1-10 like NWN.

Thanks Clovis for a nice post! (hope I don't seem too lazy =)

[Pardu]

I really like the tactics system, it's something I've not seen done in this way in other games. It gives a good blend between standard AI routines for you party and direct control for specific circumstances. I love it.



My first play-through, I didn't even know the tactics section was there and I had a really hard time of it. I thought the game was nearly impossible (on Normal). Second time through, I had found the tactics screen and started experimenting - that was a much easier game. Now, I use it all the time.



The only (very) small gripe I have is that sometimes I want to take control of a party member to give them one specific command and for them to execute that action and then carry on following their tactics. For example, if I don't have something like "cast Mana Clash on the nearest mage" is Morrigan's tactics then I sometimes switch to her and cast the spell myself. I find, though, that if I don't control Morrigan long enough for her to actually start casting the spell, then she ignores me and follows her tactics instead, overriding my commands.



So, the sequence [1. Pause game; 2. Switch to Morrigan; 3. Cast Mana Clash; 4. Switch to main player; 5. Unpause] just doesn't work for me. It's a very slight gripe, but there it is...

[Cybercat999]

RageGT wrote...
I also would like to have more options for the quickbar, than 1-10 only. I expand it to the edge of the screen and in wide screen it gets really large. I place stuff on both ends and with empty slots between them to distingh, when I don't have all of them used. I would like hotkeys for those past 1-10. Perhaps shift+1-10 and ctrl+1-10 like NWN.

More hotbars and more hotkeys.
I am used to move/turn with the mouse and use hotkeys with left hand, I would never get far as a clicker in MMOs. And though I dont care if DA:O ever gets multiplayer option, I still like to have my prefered way of playing.

Full expanded hotbar doesnt hold half of the things I want to have on it. Right now I have minumum spells/consumables with my present mage at level 11 and only 1 space left. It is totally tedious if I have to pause > open bag > use > close bag > unpause every time I want to use heal potion. I really want to be able to play without pausing and with lacking hotbar/hotkeys it is next to impossible.

[hardvice]

I love the tactics system. It's nice that I can micromanage when I want to, but have reasonable confidence that the AI won't do anything too stupid when I don't.



That said, there are a few improvements I'd like to see. They've all been mentioned before, but I thought I'd add my "ditto":



Mechanics:

* More complete status conditions (dead, frozen/petrified, etc.) and explanations of what all the conditions mean. This is really the only part of the system that can be a bit confusing.

* Options for "2 or more allies" and "2 or more enemies" and some version of "ally" that includes "self" (like "party")

* Options for 'Adventuring" and "In combat"

* Option for "flank and attack"



System:

* More slots! It's great to be able to prioritize, like having a mage cast Winter's Grasp at an enemy mage if available, an enemy archer if not, or just any enemy if no archer, but that takes three precious slots. Having the full complement available to everybody from the start would be nice. Having a few extra slots on top of that would be even better.

* Ditch the tactics skill and the level-up slot progress. Since tactics don't make the character more powerful, it just doesn't make sense to tie them to experience. A low-level character probably won't fill up twenty or twenty-five slots anyway, since they'll have fewer talents or spells. But sometimes it's nice to be very,very specific about what you want them to do, and in what order.

* Multiple custom sets would be nice, but not absolutely necessary if there are enough slots. One really clever idea would be to have separate sets for each weapon set, and have them automatically switch when you change weapon sets. Particularly once we're talking expansion packs and sequels with a higher level cap, it becomes pretty feasible to have a character specialize in multiple weapon talents. Telling them when to switch from sword and shield to two-handed sword or from bow to daggers, and what to do once they've switched, would be amazing. It would also help alleviate the "too few slots" problem a bit.

* Another neat trick would be allowing us to add a tactic to switch tactics sets, so you could do stuff like "if there's a boss-level enemy, switch to tactics set 3" or "if Shale is dead, switch to tactics set 2" to have Sten take over tank duties. Obviously, this has to be done carefully to avoid a loop if you have "if there's a mage, use tactics 2" on set 1 and "if there's a boss, use tactics 1" on set 2 ... and you encounter both a mage and a boss (or a boss mage!) Maybe just disallow switching to a set that also has a switch.



Interface:

* The interface on the Xbox is actually really good! Turning tactics on and off, reordering them, adding them, etc. is all very intuitive.

* Again, a "more info" button on the statuses and criteria would be helpful.

* OR logic would be nice, but if there are enough slots, it's really not necessary.

* AND logic would give lots of control (Enemy is a mage AND a boss, e.g.) but would probably be hard to implement within the interfacing without making things pretty complicated.



Behaviours:

* I'd like to see a lot more control over behaviours -- perhaps separate options for sticking with the controlled character or not, ranged or melee, avoid or engage, run from AOE or not, etc, rather than preset packages.

* If the tactics allow multiple sets, it would be nice if each set had its own behaviour. There's not much point in adding a bunch of logic to determine when to pull out a bow if the character's just going to close ranks and pull out a sword.

* Characters seem pretty responsive to tactics. Again, a few more conditions and a bunch more slots would clear up any weirdness I've seen. Generally, if I catch myself thinking "why isn't so-and-so doing such-and-such?", it's because they've already used the spell or skill in question on a less-than-ideal target.



Overall, though, I'd like to reiterate how pleasantly surprised I was with the tactics system. In the past, I've really enjoyed micromanaging combat, but I was really impressed with how well the tactics system works, by-and-large, and found that combat not only played out more smoothly when I let things run their course, but that the lack of constant pausing and fiddling really kept me immersed in the story. Which brings me to my last suggestion:



* It'd be really nice to have an option to let the controlled character follow tactics unless/until I interrupt them. I know, full auto combat sounds more like watching a game than playing a game. But the reality is that for most small battles, I can replicate my decision-making process well enough with the tactics system that I could enjoy supervising the battle as much as just repeatedly clicking and occasionally firing off a skill--particularly since I'm playing a warrior at the moment.

[RetrOldSchool]

Great initiative! Im looking forward to more threads like this on different aspects of the game!
Im playing on Xbox260.


How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?

Easy to set up, though the behavior option isn't totally obivous how it works.

What would you improve in the tactical interface?

A couple of more options:
-Status:Frozen, Status:petrified would make it possible to set up "shattering" tactics.
-Some sort of flanking option
-Some kind of way to prevent mages from casting AoE spells when friendlies are in the AoE. (though I prefer to use AoE manually)


Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?

-Yes

How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?

-Responsive as far as I have seen.


Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?

My archer rogue kept changing to melee when he was attacked by melee (he had melee archer talent + defensive talen) even though I hadn't set my tactics up to do that. However, it seems the reason for it was the behavior I had chosen and not the tactics itself.


What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

Now here (at least for console) is a great opportunity for improvement. Especially a "move"-command would be very good for console. The move command could work like the AoE spells, and should be queued. After the party member has moved to the chosen spot, the party member should go back to using the applicable tactic.

If you've selected the full party (rb+lb) then the move command should affect all.

Also the ability to queue 2-3 commands could be nice as well, but a "move" command is IMO the most important factor.

On that note the pause toggle function (LT) should work the same way as when you choose the pull and hold (LT). As it is now, the game un-pauses if you choose something, ie, you can't queue one command at all if you choose to play with a toggle on off pause (LT). Instead it should work like the pull and hold, so if even if you choose an action, the game should only unpause if you press LT again.
I guess it might be a bug, but in case it's not, I'm listing that too.

[Yhtill]

A lot of good feedback here (though I haven't read the entire thread).

I really enjoy the tactic system and the interface works fine for me

To reiterate a few things allready mentioned and maybe add some new stuff, here's some changes I'd like to see:



- Having to buy tactic slots when leveling up is frustrating... other skills usually are more important and I buy them first, so complex tactics are not available until the late game. Just give us the slots and allow us to formulate complex tactics from the beginning.



- 'Hold position' for single characters instead for entire group would be awesome

- quick way to switch tactics in battle (a small dropdown box near the character portrait or something similar) so I don't have to go to the tactics screen



some better options for mages:

- I want a 'more than n allies below x health'-condition so I can trigger 'Group Heal' when it is needed!

- Being able to use spells combos

- have a generic 'Use offensive spell'-option! With several offensive spells (different flavours of Ice/Electricty/Flame-spells), I often want to cast just anyone of them, depending which one is currently available due to cooldown times. Can't automat this with the tactics system, though. Setting it up now would require one slot per spell. Having the option to tell Morrigan to 'just unleash any offensive magic' would be great.

[Mountainlake]

1 How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?

It is easy to add simple options, but almost impossible to do more (you need to jump a lot and many checks are missing). For example, drink a potion on low health is fine but attack the closest mage if in range (don't run into a blizzard please!) is downright impossible and use group heal if more than one member is injured and heal otherwise a bit tricky.

2 What would you improve in the tactical interface?

Add support for AND, OR and NOT in the condition part. If I have to pick one then AND. It would help a lot!

3 Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?

Not always. In particular I hate it when a ranged character runs into a blizzard or inferno in order to attack the enemy with lowest health. I can see why, but there should be a way to attack the enemy with lowest health that can be attacked without moving (or at least without running into an area effect). A global option to always stay out of dangerous area effects would be nice overall as it would save the melee fighers as well!

4 How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?

Normally fairly OK when they have enough tactics slots. However, you damage the game by limiting the slots and having the player spend skill points to get smarter followers. I mean you can always resort to manual control, so the tactics is just a convenience and without enough slots it cannot do its job.

5 Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?

Yes, sometimes they will run across the battlefield into dangerous effects or freeze and stop doing anything. However, that can be traced to poor tactics options (player fault). The problem is that more tactics slots or conditions are needed in order to write really good rules.

6 What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

Auto-paus whenever the command queue is empty, please please please! This could be implemented as a tactics command or a global option. It would aid manual control immensely at little cost. I handle all the difficult fights by hitting space every few seconds to assign new commands and it is a pain. With auto-paus I would not loose any time where characters stand still and I would not have to look out for that and hit space either.

As a lower priority the BG2 party formations could be added so that the characters follow the main character with a certain pattern. At present it is always a circle (kind of), but in BG2 there were several alternatives. That should also be fairly easy to implement.

[fchopin]

I have started a new game to test the Tactics System using PC playing as a Human Noble rogue.



I am fighting with dog and my mother in the first chapter.



I had to waist 1 point on tactics so i can use more than 2 slots for my character.



I have the below setup for my character.



1. Self: Health <25% = use self poultice : least powerful

2. Self being attacked by melee attack = Dirty fighting

3. Enemy nearest visible = Attack



So far number 3 does not work for player character as if i do not select an enemy my character will never attack unless it is attacked first.



After every enemy that i kill my character just stands and does nothing unless attacked or i select an enemy.

If i select an enemy my player attacks but if the enemy moves position my character stops fighting and does not go after the enemy for at least 50% of the time.

One time my character was following the enemy but was shot with pinning shot, after the effect was over my character just stood there like an idiot.



Number 2 only halve works, if my character is attacked my character will fight back bud will not use dirty fighting. I think my character used dirty fighting one time.



Not sure about number 1 yet as my character did not use poultice but not sure if it was less than 25%.



I have only used 3 very simple main tactics so far and i am having problems.

[nksaint]

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?

Rather simple to use for the most part. It may be a good idea to add another column though. I get the 2 columns. (cause and effect) Sometimes though I wish I could set it for (If an enemy does this OR this ---> Use this) instead of having to use another line of tactics.



What would you improve in the tactical interface?

The above option or more slots. With the tactical pause system tactics takes a backseat a lot of the time unfortunately. Maybe have an option for mages that overrides a tactic if friendly fire is possible. (If Morrigan freezes my Rogue one more time...)



Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?

Mostly. There are some situations where I wonder why they are not using potions as directed or healing as directed or even going from Melee to Ranged as directed though.



How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?

Conditions or situations? As I said in the situation where I want them to go ranged they never seem to do it...Switching to melee when being attacked is not as difficult for them it seems. Of course whacking a darkspawn with a bow seems dumb when you have daggers on your back. I guess Lelianna knows that.



Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?

Sten drank 24 potions one fight. I'm not sure why. o.O



What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

For the most part I just use the main character and let them do whatever they want. If I am in a bind I will pause and force them to move, but typically I don't bother. They tend to use skills, etc. later than I would want for instance. Lelianna Tactic 1 Enemy > Highest health > Arrow of Slaying. Well, by the time she procs the tactic someone has probably already whittled him down and there is 500 damage for no apparent reason. Though there is a full health darkspawn a bit further down. Do you follow what I mean? I wish that there was some type of common sense mod.

[herwin1]

xCobalt wrote...

I don't have many problems with tactic system but there are definitely some things to improve on.

- AI should be able to flank/backstab enemies
- make being grabbed or pinned down as a condition (ie: use Shield Bash if player is grabbed)
- I recall some problems when trying to make the AI use poisons on a regular basis
- As a console player, I would like to be able to control my party without having to unpause
- I'm not too sure but I dont think there is a condition if a party member is dead...one would have to switch to a healer and revive the downed member manually

I haven't read the other posts, so there may be duplicate ideas.

The use command has problems with items in your inventory. I find I have to set it up once, save, and then reset it up. Even then, it will sometimes forget its toilet training. If you use poison or venom, it will reuse it multiple times... Seriously borked.