334 réponses à ce sujet

[JayRezil]

The only real complaint I have (and mind you, I'm posting this without reading any other replies) is how there isn't' a "heal ANY ally" for self AND party - instead of currently having to use 2 tactics for "heal party" and "heal self". It's quite bothersome.

[Platinumstorm]

I always felt shapeshifters acted strangely.  They seemed to struggle with the idea of staying in a form and attacking with that form, and would instead shapeshift out to use an attack I didn't want them to.

[tymay33]

LaughingDragon wrote...

tymay33 wrote...

archer switching to a melee weapon (not neccesarily a problem when its supposed to do that, but they never switch back afterwards)

You can solve the archer problem by 1. taking away their melee weapons so they only have a bow or 2. Switch their behavior preset to "ranged" and they will stay back and always favor a bow.


-S

if you read my post i said its not a problem when they are supposed to change i.e "Self hit by melee attack ---> Switch to melee weapon" but after they deal with that enemy, they never switch back to ranged even if i set a tactic like "Target at medium to long range ---> switch to ranged weapon"

Oh and i know how to fix it but it shouldnt need to be fixed in the first place, the tactic shouldnt be broken

Modifié par tymay33, 07 janvier 2010 - 08:12 .

[chasethesunset]

Biggest thing that I wish was implemented is something along the lines of:



if party health < XX

then Use group heal

[tymay33]

chasethesunset wrote...

Biggest thing that I wish was implemented is something along the lines of:

if party health
then Use group heal

yes exactly! i forgot about that

something like:

Party -> 1 ->       Health           -> Below 50% ->  Cast: Group heal
               2     mana/stamina                                           Mass rejuvination
               3
              all


EDIT: and one more thing i think this works fine on pc but on xbox theres no way to target an ally if i want to cast "force field" on them. i'm not sure of a surefire way to fix this but the only way i can think of without actually being able to target party members in combat (like you would enemies...which i think would get annoying) would be to grant 2 spells one being "Force Field" and the other being "Force Field (ally)". And "Force Field (ally)" would be cast just like a healing spell would be

Modifié par tymay33, 07 janvier 2010 - 08:26 .

[MerinTB]

Here's mine, that I finally got to writing today, without me reading anyone else's comments to influence my own personal thoughts on this - after this I'll read through and see that others have my ideas or better ideas, I'm sure.



1 - How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?

I would, personally, say it was rather easy to use. If it weren't for knowing several people who couldn't figure out why their archer kept putting the bow away and running into combat (default set instead of ranged in behavior) I would have said it was very intuitive. Course I guess you can't expect anyone to read a manual anymore.

2 - What would you improve in the tactical interface?

For one I think it is weird to have a skill that you have to spent points on when you level to fill out your tactics is weird, at least the way implemented. I don't dislike it enough for it to bother me, but I could do without that.While powerful, there are many instances where I found myself wishing I could code things better than what I was given the ability to. For example, for area effect spells – I almost never used tactics for them unless they couldn't target allies (like Sleep and Waking Nightmare), but if you could set up the tactics so that the spell wouldn't be fired when the area of effect contained an ally, that would be very helpful. Also setting a tactic for rogues to try and flank would be great (though it may be hard.)

Really, I would just take what you have and add a bit more to it – a few more options that I think are fairly obvious to most people – like packages of commands: if X happens, then execute series of
commands 1, but if Y happens, execute series of commands 2.
Example – if at least 3 enemies are grouped at medium to long range, do this: fire grease spell as center enemy, the fireball center enemy.
Example 2 – if Ally Tank is surrounded, do this: place force field on Ally Tank, cast fireball on Ally Tank, cast Inferno on Ally Tank.

3 - Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?

Pretty much how I expect the coded commands to work, yes. Not always how I want them to, but whenever I saw a behavior that made me go “no, no, don't do that NOW!” I would either take control of that character or I adjusted their tactics.

4 - How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?

Sometimes what I think should trigger a condition and what they think should trigger a condition have some distance between them.  Mostly what comes to mind is when I want my Dog to Dread Howl or my mage to Mind Blast - “surrounded” seems to be very subject in defintion from the AI to me.Sometimes, even though I have a person set Aggressive, I wish they would WAIT until the enemy had closed (or until that area effect spell wore off) before they would charge into combat.

5 - Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?

I'm sure I must have, but off the top of my head I don't remember anything more than has already been mentioned (charging into a blazing Inferno, for example.) But then I just adjust quickly with pause instead of marking instances to complain about.

6 - What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

I like how it is set up. This is the way I like to play games.

Different things that maybe would be nice would be a “all attack this target” command, or a “take out all ranged opponents first” command – you know, orders that your MC can shout and have the party follow just by pushing a hot key. Tactical battle commands that override your set tactics until the command is completed. Maybe have those customizable like the current tactics system. But as a supplement, not a replacement.

Maybe be able to set up groups? Like put your two melee fighters to hot key Ctrl-1 or something, and your two ranged people (mage and archer, maybe) to hot key Ctrl-2? That way you can press the hot key and then right-click to target who you want those two to attack?

Lastly, being able to tell individuals to hold position, as opposed to all or nothing on the hold or move toggle. Perhaps tying that in to the hot keyed groups?

Well, I hope that helps!

Modifié par MerinTB, 07 janvier 2010 - 08:39 .

[Epantiras]

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
[/list]At first sight it looked very complicated, especially because I thought that each contiion to the left could be linked to MORE than one reaction to the right. However, after reading the manual and seeing the pre-made settings, I discovered that it was quite easy to use.

What would you improve in the tactical interface?
[/list]I've noticed that at lower screen resolutions (for example 1024x768) the menu tends to go outside the borders of the screen. The book-like background causes the condition buttons on the left to be a bit too far from the reaction buttons on the left, it looks a bit confusing at the beginning.

I'd like to link a condition to more than one reaction. I've been compiling behaviour scripts for monsters in Baldur's Gate 2 mods and I'm accustomed to things like IF... THEN DO several actions.

Currently, you can't have mages do spell combos on their own: for example, if Morrigan freezes an enemy with cone of cold I can't set up Wynne's AI to use stonefist to shatter them. This is tricky also because cone of cold has a reduced duration and stonefist has a long cooldown period, therefore it's easy to miss the chance to shatter enemies if you don't micromanage the whole spellcasting yourself. I love playing mages because spells give a great tactical depth to combat, so I'm not really complaining about micromanaging spells, but some players could find it frustrating.

I'd like to have some condition to prevent mages to use AOE spells if it could cause friendly fire. Without this, I'd never trust an AI script to handle fireballs!

Some complained that you don't have many condition/reaction slots at low levels, but you also do have less skills and if you're a newbie, less tactical knowledge. The real problems begin at higher levels, especially with warriors because you might have spent not enough points on cunning. Thieves seem like they never run out of slots.

Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
[/list]I haven't paid much attention to this, I'm too busy micromanaging spellcasters :-P
Seriously, I've used tactical settings only with Shale. The other characters had custom settings made according to my game style.

How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
[/list]Companions are quite responsive to tactical conditions. The real problem is setting conditions in the right order according to priorities.

Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
[/list]I've noticed that the condition "the nearest mage" is triggered even by ranged weapon users. Therefore, it's almost useless to set my mage to cast mana drain on spellcasters because she'll waste it on bow wielding enemies instead.

What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?
[/list]I'm quite happy with how the tactics system works right now.

Modifié par Epantiras, 07 janvier 2010 - 08:48 .

[Thrasher91604]

Please add the capability to hold each party member separately (like NWN). The mountaintop dragon battle was a real pain to control because I couldn't tell my tank to freely move at the same time I wanted my other characters to stay back.

Modifié par Thrasher91604, 07 janvier 2010 - 09:07 .

[IGedit]

I'd just like to second a couple of suggestions:



- hold characters individually

- more (and free) tactics slots

[tx_g1150]

Victor Wachter wrote...

• How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
  
• What would you improve in the tactical interface?
  
• Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
  
• How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
  
• Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
  
• What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

Appearantly, I couldn't disagree with the majority of posters more.  I like that the additional slots cost me something, because I do find that it not only makes the party stronger (sorry, I just dont like to pause every second) but it also increases the feel of my party members growing stronger.  That said, there are a few things I would change.
[*]Add Advanced Tactics (I and II) as either skills you can buy or skills you earn.  These skills would allow you queue a second and third command when a condition is met.
[*]Add Dead as a status
[*]Add, isTarget logic
[*]Add, changeTactic and changeStance as commands (although changeTactic could be exploited if you keep the current situation of unlocking tactics in place)
To the main character's skills list, you could have the leadership gains increase the number of tactic slots for all party members or give the main character a Field General skill that increases the tactic slots for each party member.

One of the things I really like about this game so far is the lack of cookie cutter solutions and play style.  I think if you move things out of the skills system, some items will become more cookie cutter.

[Sbri]

It seems that I am in the minority on the ease of use issue.  I have basically given up on using tactics and just micro-manage. I didn't find it intuitive.  An example, once I found my mage constantly switching between frost and flame weapons.  I ended up going in and just removing anything that had the flame or frost weapons in the menu.  Someone else mentioned the weapon switching issue, which still annoys me.  By the time some of the better user explanations and tutorials came out, I was used to playing without using the tactics menu.  I would have liked a more step by step walk through when the game came out.
Things I think would be improvments to game play~
  Formations ~ I go batty when I'm running about with my rogue in front, my mages behind them and my tank in the back.  I then need to waste valuable time at the start of a battle getting my mages behind my tank.  If this needs to happen in a doorway, this can lead to some annoying cluster fu.....ummm, yeah.  The ability to specify rogue in front, tank next, mage last would be VERY COOL.
  Also, someone else mentioned a "Follow" command. As an example of a place I'd have loved to have this ability is the bridge in the Deep Roads.  I'm trying to pull back, and I need to individually make each character run in the direction I want them to.  And if I switch to another character (to try to get them to pull back) the first will immediatly turn and try to re-engage.  ANNOYING!!!

[Biefstukfriet]

Can't really help, I don't use the tactics system. I controle my party manualy.

[bjdbwea]

The system works very well, and I like it. I think it's good that the number of slots is numbered and depends on other skills. I was missing a few conditions though (I'm sure others have mentioned the most important ones), and there was no reason not to include those. Fortunately there seems to be a mod that takes care of that.

In difficult battles, it's still necessary to control party members directly - maybe I haven't found the perfect setup, but more likely it's due to some combat situations requiring some quick actions and more party coordination. But that's okay, it's tiresome and in fact bad game design when the companions can win every battle without any interaction from the player.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 07 janvier 2010 - 10:40 .

[foxagami]

Hi,



For me i found that the tactic system was a very easy system to work with. Im a ps3 user so i have no idea if theres any differences between the different platforms. There is a couple of things i would like to suggest for improving the tactic system however.



- Tactics that can change to different modes like passive, ect. And also the same with changing to the other tactics such as Archer, defensive.



- For disabled tactics, i would like to see them been able to be used when you use thhe tactic - "Jump to Tactic ?". This would open up much more customization with tactics and give you the ability to add 2 checks for a tactic.



Anyway thats my opinion about the tactics system..



Thanks again Bioware for a fun, addictive game .

[ObscureCharacter]

The only problem I see is we need to have the tactics to buid upon each other. For example (a bad example though sorry) if I set a tactic to use the spell grease I would like then the AI to cast fireball, but only if it had cast grease first.  Basically use tactics to chain abilities together.

[Fedris The Red]

I play on the Xbox360 and found the party AI somewhat frustrating, like people have said before I tried any number of ways to get my ranged weapon person (Leilana? I can't remember) to switch to melee when attacks and either wound up with her staying in melee after switching or more teeth gratingly getting into a loop switching back and forth with ranged and melee weapons without attempting to attack whilst getting royally pummelled but her attacker.



I'd also like to see Wynn using her resurrection spell without prompting. That was another bone of contention, having a character K.O'ed but no way to set it up so Wynn resurrected them automatically.



I played Tales Of Vesperia fairly soon after I played Dragon Age and the tactics system they used was so much better, I don't think I took to yelling futile instructions at the screen once when in combat in Vesperia whereas Dragon Age it was only in the minor skirmishes I didn't despair at my parties complete lack of cohesion.

[taljinx]

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?

Very easy and user-friendly, has lots of potential.

What would you improve in the tactical interface?

Remove Combat Tactics as a skill, and add additional tactics slots for characters - smarter AI should be part of the core game.

Also add additional conditions, e.g. Dead status

Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?

Yes, from what I've played with.

How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?

Good enough.

Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?

No.

What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?

Rogues that automatically move to flanking positions of enemies they are attacking
 
Mages that can cast AoE when no allies are in the way, and also that could move to safe positions for cone spells.


I would also like to take this oppurtunity to request queued actions. If one could at least queue a heap of actions at the start of a battle and then fire-and-forget, this might fill some of the short-falls of the tactis system.

Modifié par taljinx, 07 janvier 2010 - 11:41 .

[Stormstrider32]

How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use?
It required a lot of trial and error.  Even though I understood the concept behind it there were various aspects about it that took me some time to understand.  For example,  I would set up the tactics for all my party members ( I always turn off the tactics for my main character) and think that as long as I didn't have direct first-person control of them that they would follow the tactics.  However, since I used to be in the habit of selecting my entire party to better concentrate on target to dispose of them quickly I would find that my healer wasn't healing me.  It took me a long time to figure out that they weren't healing me because they were bring directed to attack.  Once I discovered this things improved.

What would you improve in the tactical interface?
1. The primary need is a tutorial with different levels:  beginner, intermediate, and expert.  This would go a long way toward removing the learning curve of the system.
2. Spending talents to acquire more tactical spots is fine but requiring cunning scores to go higher than one is too prohibitive.  Especially for a healer that is not the PC.
3. I would really like the option to have just my healer stay in one spot and still leave the rest of my party free to use their tactics.  When fighting bosses like the high dragon I often found my healer trying to stay close to my main character who was a melee warrior.  This resulted in the healer taking unnecessary damage.  However, if I told the party to stay put then my other characters required excessive management that would have been simply answered with their tactics.  If there is already a way to do this then I am missing it.

Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings?
Generally my party members react how I expect them to.  For common fights I never really have any issues anymore.  For special fights I simply micromanage a bit more and adjust my methods.  Having to do this makes situations more fun for me and removes any chance of monotony seeping into the game.

How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions?
Once again, in run-of-the-mill situations they perform fine but in various circumstances they with unusual terrain or enemies with different tactics I am forced to micromanage.  Not that that is necessarily bad.

Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances?
It only seemed this way when I didn't fully understand the ins and outs of the tactics system.

What kind of different ways would you want to control your party?
I prefer to focus on my main character.  It brings more of a roleplaying feel to everything.  How I set things up depends largely on what class I play.  If I am playing a rogue I usually set the healer to heal (and only heal), my tank to taunt and generate threat, and my third character to do whatever they do better (assist tank, deal damage, assist dps, etc.)  As of right now the tactics system allows me to do exactly this.

Overall, I am probably forgetting somethings but this more or less covers my take on things.  Generally speaking, I think the main issue with the system is the trial and error necessary to learn how to use it correctly.  This "trial and error" can often mean player frustration.  I have undergone a LOT of this trial and error and can say that I no longer have any gripes with the system.  However, I have students that have stopped playing the game since it was too much for them to figure out.

Modifié par Stormstrider32, 08 janvier 2010 - 12:21 .

[NRG-OptimaL]

not my kinda thing at all so i used it only to set up sustainables

[Khayness]

The tactics system works quite all right.
Except on a few occasions when I set abilities what counter each other, then the character is standing right there doing nothing. Lil' common sense and it's all right again.
Situations like setting Shale to attack the elite or higher enemies on sight. When I encountered many of them, she was running all along unable to choose.

My only problem was setting a tank on early levels. Too few tactical slots, too many things to react to.
And I think it's working as intended, but some sustained abilities (Berserk or Blood Magic) turns off after combat. It's only annoying when waves comes after each other within seconds, letting us to rest for a moment (like the Spider Queen).

Modifié par Khayness, 08 janvier 2010 - 12:54 .

[Withidread]

I love the tactics system. It took a bit of getting used to, but once I got the feel for it I found myself going back to it (in a good way) before major encounters to make alterations based upon the upcoming encounter.

One change I would make would be, when selecting one of the custom settings, the current tactics be carried over unless you have already saved over the custom selection once. For instance, I may make changes to the defensive or scrapper settings and then want to save those changes as a custom setting, I want to be able to alter and then save as custom without having to select custom and set the whole thing up from scratch.


It might also be helpful to be able to re-name the custom selections.

Modifié par Withidread, 08 janvier 2010 - 01:49 .

[dostrow]

The three things I looked for and failed to find are the following:



1). A N Number of Allies below X% health condition, this would make group heal significantly less of a waste.



2). The expansion of N Number of Clustered Enemies to allow it to trigger AoE spells such as Tempest, Inferno, Blizzard and Earthquake, at the moment it only allows you to choose spells that have directed AoE instead of static.



3). The ability to tell your rogue to flank/stealth/backstab conditional on a targets status or rank, e.g. If target is stunned, flank and backstab, or if target has elite rank, stealth and backstab, etc.



In addition I find the fact that the systems automatic ability to populate new tactics slots if the character is left on one of the canned types very helpful, it would be great if selecting custom remembered where it came from so that if say, I changed my tank from Defender to Custom and he got a new tactics slot it would automatically be filled with the next appropriate Defender item. I find myself changing back to Defender, changing back to Custom and then replacing my rules.



Overall I find the tactics solution easy to use, but, especially for mages, there are nowhere near enough tactics slots.

[Jae Onasi]

I use the tactics system to some degree, though I still micromanage the mages a lot. In fact, sometimes it's easier to let my PC run on the tactics and manage the mages myself. I miss being able to queue up skills and such for each party member a la Kotor, but, ah well.

[Franpa]

v1.02A Computer

1) Player Character (PC) doesn't react at all to enemy encounters unless I specifically direct him/her to. I tried both defensive and aggressive behavior.

2) Other allies/party members only occasionally attack the enemy when set to defensive, but never do when set to aggressive.

3) based on descriptions, once a character accomplishes a tactic it starts again from the first tactic in the group of tactics. Should it not just play through each tactic until the last one before repeating?

----------

Unless I'm missing something, that isn't right, right? Do they not follow there tactics if they are selected? Nothing in the game indicates similar except the default behavior setting.

I expect a defensive behavior, regardless of what abilities I assigned (unless there all like "heal myself") to involve staying close to other party members/ally and engaging the enemy, not standing still twiddling there thumbs and getting hacked to pieces.

Aggressive would be to engage an enemy regardless of the location of other party members/ally the moment the character sees the enemy, not standing still twiddling there thumbs and getting hacked to pieces.



edit: lastly, there are no tooltips for abilities and items when setting up a tactic. I have no clue what some actually do unless I exit the tactic window and go look into my Skills.

Modifié par Franpa, 08 janvier 2010 - 03:03 .

[ojcafe]

• How easy or difficult do you feel the tactical interface is to use? - Simplistic like FF12

• What would you improve in the tactical interface? - I dont see the need to use tactics in game.

• Do your party members react as you would expect them to under different tactical settings? - aside from the occasional auto attack instead of heal yes.

• How responsive are your followers to different tactical conditions? - they do whats expected but sometimes they do the wrong moves at the wrong time.

• Have you seen them behave unusually in any circumstances? -nah

• What kind of different ways would you want to control your party? -voice command , thought recognition iono??? I prefer to do things myself and set the computer on cruise control.

Overall nothing wrong with the tactics system its just not fun in my honest opinion. given that you can just set everyone else on a template like "Defender" or "Scrapper" and just go gun ho (with the occasional pause and target switch even on nightmare easy game once you know how to play your role)

I think the tactics system would be better implemented if you lost "1st" person control of any one character, And then the fight would act more of a battle simulation, and then you would just watch what your settings  have accomplished in each battle. kinda like those mech games (forgot the name)


But yeah seeing how it is similar to the FF12 Tactics system i can't really say anything else since, hey why fix something that already works haha. well hope my input was actually valuable hahaha <3