147 réponses à ce sujet

[Xiomara]

Well, Morrigan and Flemeth are pretty much a given. Bioware have been teasing us with what the two's true agenda is since Origins. DA2 teased some more with Flemeth but gave us no Morrigan. It's time to show and tell, they can't draw this out much longer.

Leliana is also pretty certain to return (unfortunately). You can't keep a good Mary Sue "fan favourite" down apparently, even when you stab them repeatedly then decapitate them.

If the Qunari play a big role in DA:I then I would make a bet on Sten appearing.

Anders (if you didn't kill him....oh who am I kidding, like that stops anyone. Oh hi there Leliana, I was just talking about you...) could potentially play a big role in Mages vs Templars.

I don't think any of the others make that much sense and would most likely only be there for fanservice.

[Silfren]

Xiomara wrote...

Well, Morrigan and Flemeth are pretty much a given. Bioware have been teasing us with what the two's true agenda is since Origins. DA2 teased some more with Flemeth but gave us no Morrigan. It's time to show and tell, they can't draw this out much longer.

Leliana is also pretty certain to return (unfortunately). You can't keep a good Mary Sue "fan favourite" down apparently, even when you stab them repeatedly then decapitate them.

If the Qunari play a big role in DA:I then I would make a bet on Sten appearing.

Anders (if you didn't kill him....oh who am I kidding, like that stops anyone. Oh hi there Leliana, I was just talking about you...) could potentially play a big role in Mages vs Templars.

I don't think any of the others make that much sense and would most likely only be there for fanservice.

I do wish people would just get over Leliana already.  You imply that the only reason she was brought back was because the writers saw her as popular.  Sorry, but I don't think writers would go out of their way to retcon a death purely for reasons of fanservice.  More likely they planned to have her be part of the later story from the beginning--you may note that when you meet Leliana in Lothering, she's wearing a necklace called Seeker's Circle?  And she didn't return just for fanservice in DA2, either.  Her relationship with Divine Justinia was established way back during Origins, it wasn't something cooked up at the last minute for DA2 because she was a fave character.

Anyway, it isn't as though the Warden stays by Leliana's side to make sure she's dead.  You pretty much give her a presumed fatal stab, then walk away, leaving her to die.  It happens often enough in real life that people survive what should have been fatal wounds, even when by rights they SHOULD have died.  So it shouldn't be all that upsetting when a character does exactly the same thing.  Hell the fact that the story even acknowledges Leliana's assumed death speaks volumes: it isn't like Bioware just pretended that they never left it open for players to kill her in Origins.  They easily could have made that player choice nonexistent for DA2, and they pointedly did not do that. 

Back on topic, I note that beyond the Big Two of Flemeth and Morrigan, you don't think any characters beyond Sten, Anders, or Leliana make sense in returning.  I don't understand this at all.  By naming those five as the only ones that make any sense at all in returning, you left a rather large list of characters whom you don't think make sense.  But why on earth not?  The political climate we'll be facing is such that it would NOT make sense not to see certain nobility of Ferelden again.  Whomever is ruling Ferelden at the time has a vested interest in the civil war taking place in Orlais, but the mage-templar war is also going to have serious repercussions for the politicians involved.  Any characters with family or business ties or political ties to Orlais (hello Guerrin family).  Any characters with connections to the Wardens (all the Warden Commanders new recruits from Awakening).  Any characters with direct interest in the mage/Templar war.  Any characters directly affected by the Qunari threat, or directly connected to the Qunari themselves.  Any characters connected in various was with Tevinter or Tevinter interests.  In short, Cullen, Gregoir, various members of the Guerrin family, the Ferelden monarch, various Wardens, Avernus, Tallis, Isabela, Fenris, Fenris's master whatshisface, Feynriel, etc. etc. etc. 

In short, there are a LOT of characters for whom the story would make sense for them to be return, even if only as side content based on the story decisions from the previous games.  Why on earth do you think it makes sense for only the five you name?

Modifié par Silfren, 26 décembre 2012 - 06:04 .

[ejoslin]

Actually, had the writers had a plan for Leliana at the beginning, you would think there wouldn't be TWO scenarios in which she dies.

Not that there's anything wrong with them deciding they like a character and retconning her. However, I would HATE to be one of those people who were all torn apart by what effect that their US had on Leliana to find out, well, it really didn't.

I have found replaying Origins a bit harder now because I know a few of my choices just do not matter. Deciding whether to kill Flemeth was very difficult for me in Origins until DA2 came out. Yes, she was obviously up to no good, but she saved my warden's life. Is the way to repay that through killing her? It was one that bothered me in all my playthroughs.

Modifié par ejoslin, 26 décembre 2012 - 08:12 .

[_- Songlian -]

Flemeth and Morrigan, hopefully.

[Silfren]

ejoslin wrote...

Actually, had the writers had a plan for Leliana at the beginning, you would think there wouldn't be TWO scenarios in which she dies.

Not that there's anything wrong with them deciding they like a character and retconning her. However, I would HATE to be one of those people who were all torn apart by what effect that their US had on Leliana to find out, well, it really didn't.

I have found replaying Origins a bit harder now because I know a few of my choices just do not matter. Deciding whether to kill Flemeth was very difficult for me in Origins until DA2 came out. Yes, she was obviously up to no good, but she saved my warden's life. Is the way to repay that through killing her? It was one that bothered me in all my playthroughs.

Here's what the Epilogues have to say about Leliana if the Warden romanced her before making the  Ultimate Sacrifice:


[*]If The Warden makes the Ultimate Sacrifice and Leliana is romanced but not hardened, she will compose what will become a famous ballad of your journey. After one performance, Leliana quietly vanishes. It is said that the Maker came to her in the night, and her maid found Leliana smiling, with tears in her eyes, saying that at last she would soon be reunited with her love.
[*]If The Warden makes the Ultimate Sacrifice and Leliana is neither romanced nor hardened, she composes what will become a famous ballad of the journey. Leliana quietly vanishes; some say she has returned to Orlais.
[*]If The Warden makes the Ultimate Sacrifice and Leliana is both romanced and hardened, she will compose what will become a famous ballad of the journey. After one performance, Leliana quietly vanishes. Some say that she returned to her life of adventure, others say she returned to Orlais to hunt down her enemies, but she never forgets the one she loved.

Assuming the wiki is accurate on this matter, then in all cases, it never once states that Leliana dies, but that she quietly vanishes.  There is exactly one slide, the first one mentioned in the above list, that hints that she might have died, but it is a very vague hint, and is extremely clearly indicated to be rumor, not actual fact.  "IT IS SAID" is a phrase not uncommonly associated with legendary figures, and given that Leliana was an extremely pious Orlesian bard who traveled with the Hero of Ferelden, she fits the bill quite nicely as a person around whom inaccurate tales would crop up, including those of a spiritual nature, given that her status as a very faithful Andrastian would certainly make other faithful Andrastians want to believe--and concoct--fanciful tales about Leliana being rewarded by her faith.

[ejoslin]

Silfren wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Actually, had the writers had a plan for Leliana at the beginning, you would think there wouldn't be TWO scenarios in which she dies.

Not that there's anything wrong with them deciding they like a character and retconning her. However, I would HATE to be one of those people who were all torn apart by what effect that their US had on Leliana to find out, well, it really didn't.

I have found replaying Origins a bit harder now because I know a few of my choices just do not matter. Deciding whether to kill Flemeth was very difficult for me in Origins until DA2 came out. Yes, she was obviously up to no good, but she saved my warden's life. Is the way to repay that through killing her? It was one that bothered me in all my playthroughs.

Here's what the Epilogues have to say about Leliana if the Warden romanced her before making the  Ultimate Sacrifice:


[*]If The Warden makes the Ultimate Sacrifice and Leliana is romanced but not hardened, she will compose what will become a famous ballad of your journey. After one performance, Leliana quietly vanishes. It is said that the Maker came to her in the night, and her maid found Leliana smiling, with tears in her eyes, saying that at last she would soon be reunited with her love.
[*]If The Warden makes the Ultimate Sacrifice and Leliana is neither romanced nor hardened, she composes what will become a famous ballad of the journey. Leliana quietly vanishes; some say she has returned to Orlais.
[*]If The Warden makes the Ultimate Sacrifice and Leliana is both romanced and hardened, she will compose what will become a famous ballad of the journey. After one performance, Leliana quietly vanishes. Some say that she returned to her life of adventure, others say she returned to Orlais to hunt down her enemies, but she never forgets the one she loved.

Assuming the wiki is accurate on this matter, then in all cases, it never once states that Leliana dies, but that she quietly vanishes.  There is exactly one slide, the first one mentioned in the above list, that hints that she might have died, but it is a very vague hint, and is extremely clearly indicated to be rumor, not actual fact.  "IT IS SAID" is a phrase not uncommonly associated with legendary figures, and given that Leliana was an extremely pious Orlesian bard who traveled with the Hero of Ferelden, she fits the bill quite nicely as a person around whom inaccurate tales would crop up, including those of a spiritual nature, given that her status as a very faithful Andrastian would certainly make other faithful Andrastians want to believe--and concoct--fanciful tales about Leliana being rewarded by her faith.

While that is true, the unhardened US certainly was taken as a suicide by many people who received it, and there was all sorts of angst over it.  It's the line, "Some say that the Maker came to her in a vision again that night. Smiling, tears in her eyes, she told a maid that she would see her love again at last." that lead people to believe it.  Those are not exactly words of someone who doesn't expect to join her dead lover very soon.

And while, yes, ALL the slides were reduced to "heresay and rumor," that doesn't mean that someone's story isn't diminished by retcons.  

Look, again, if she was planned to be a big part in the series intially, there would have been NO way to kill her.  Just like there's no way to outright kill Alistair.  I personally don't care that about the retcon either way, but it most certainly is a retcon and it really doesn't seem like she initially was planned to be a huge part of the series.

What I find most funny is Leliana most likely was the most romanced character, but this was due to a bug turning on the romance, and furthered by a bug where a breakup didn't work.  /shrug.  

[Silfren]

ejoslin wrote...
While that is true, the unhardened US certainly was taken as a suicide by many people who received it, and there was all sorts of angst over it.  It's the line, "Some say that the Maker came to her in a vision again that night. Smiling, tears in her eyes, she told a maid that she would see her love again at last." that lead people to believe it.  Those are not exactly words of someone who doesn't expect to join her dead lover very soon.

And while, yes, ALL the slides were reduced to "heresay and rumor," that doesn't mean that someone's story isn't diminished by retcons.  

Look, again, if she was planned to be a big part in the series intially, there would have been NO way to kill her.  Just like there's no way to outright kill Alistair.  I personally don't care that about the retcon either way, but it most certainly is a retcon and it really doesn't seem like she initially was planned to be a huge part of the series.

What I find most funny is Leliana most likely was the most romanced character, but this was due to a bug turning on the romance, and furthered by a bug where a breakup didn't work.  /shrug.  

Like I said, it's possible that the story was altered part way through, then edited again, and things got mangled.  That kind of thing happens with multiple writers on a story, and with a medium wherein the story constantly changes quite a lot before final release.  I maintain that it appears as if Leliana was intended to be part of the overall story, beyond Origins, from very early on, if not the absolute beginning.  One of the more glaring continuity errors comes from Alistair bluntly stating that Templars don't need lyrium in order to access their anti-mage talents, when the rest of the lore makes it quite clear that that is precisely the purpose of giving lyrium to Templars, and Gaider himself made clear that that's where Templar abilities come from.  Alistair's statement is an easily accessible bit of dialogue nonetheless, which should drive home how easy it is for certain bits of lore that no longer apply to get overlooked by the people who are in charge of making sure things like that don't make it in the final game.  It happens.

To the rest of your quote, though, it is irrelevant that many players took the romanced/US version of Leliana to mean she definitely was suicidal, and definitely committed suicide.  The slides do not make that statement at all.  It's available ONLY as an interpretation of the epilogue, but there are far more tenable interpretations available.  "SOME SAY" that the Maker came to her in a vision.  The slide doesn't indicate whether Leliana TOLD anyone that, or that her maid HEARD her say it.  Given how pious she was, it's not at all a stretch to say that perhaps Leliana just disappeared one night, and in the process, for any number of reasons, people heard that she'd heard from the Maker, and started repeating that claim.  Leliana wasn't too shy about telling people she believed the Maker spoke to her, if she admitted such to a lot of people, it's not hard to imagine some of the people who believed her might think it happened again, or hear that it happened again, and believe it.  In any event, the epilogue slide doesn't explicitly state that Leliana killed herself.  It hints at such AS A POSSIBLE INTERPRETATION, but it leaves plenty of room for other interpretations.  No player has any business drawing definitively certain conclusions from pointedly ambiguous statements. 

[ejoslin]

I think you need to re-read the quote. What people said and what her maid said are different things. But it really doesn't matter to me. If a writer said what you are saying, I wouldn't argue it. However, you are just speculating and I just don't see what it's based upon especially considering that she could be killed.

I get you like the character and you feel that she should be a part of the continuing story. I think the decision was made to bring her back later than you do but ultimately it doesn't matter when. She's coming back which will upset some people and make others happy.

I personally could do with all new characters but since I'm on my phone I'll leave that discussion for another time as Swype is a pain.

Edit to add:  And honestly, IF Leliana were brought back because she was so popular a love interest, then the fact that she had an auto-romance bug and a romance-cutoff bug is relevant.  But fact is, neither of us know the decision process here so arguing it is a bit silly.

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 décembre 2012 - 01:15 .

[Silfren]

ejoslin wrote...

I think you need to re-read the quote. What people said and what her maid said are different things. But it really doesn't matter to me. If a writer said what you are saying, I wouldn't argue it. However, you are just speculating and I just don't see what it's based upon especially considering that she could be killed.

I get you like the character and you feel that she should be a part of the continuing story. I think the decision was made to bring her back later than you do but ultimately it doesn't matter when. She's coming back which will upset some people and make others happy.

ROFLMAO.  Well, no, you don't get that I like the character and feel she should be a part of the continuing story.  Because I haven't said anything at all about my personal opinion of the character.  Nothing, nada, zip.  And I DON'T have any particular opinion of Leliana, sorry. 

What I actually WROTE was simply that it is not true that her epilogue indicates a second way for her to die.  The epilogue slide in question only HINTS at the possibility, and even as hints go, it's quite vague, so much so that it's far, far from a given that suicide is what it is intended to mean.  If players reading that epilogue slide took it to mean that under certain conditions, Leliana definitely, incontrovertibly killed herself, only to have that ending unfairly retconned by writers who found it inconvenient to their purposes, it is because they lacked either the ability or the willingness to acknowledge the ambiguity of the epilogue's phrasing.  Especially since the epilogues make a POINT of stressing that Leliana "quietly vanished."

[Hatchetman77]

By now that kid that was hiding in the closet in Redcliff and gave you his father's sword should be old enough to do some adventuring.  Lets make him a companion.

[darthnick427]

I assume we shall see the following: Alistair, Morrigan, Lelianna, Sten, Shale, Oghren, Varric, Isabella, Zevran, Fenris, Anders, Cassandra, Cullen, Flemeth, Hawke, The Warden, Bethany, Carver, Sandal and Bodan, Tallis, Sebastian, Merril.

Alistair - He is the King of Ferelden in Bioware's canon. If we travel to Ferelden in the course of the game we will most likely visit Denerim and meet with the King.

Lelianna - She is an agent of the Divine and searching for the Warden as well as trying to end the mage/templar war. She will most likely appear more than most.

Morrigan and Flemeth - Witch Hunt DLC and Flemeth in DA2 hint at a inevitable confrontation between the two and the mage/templar war is bound to play a part in it. I assume it will be the games big twist that Flemeth is behind something ridiculously evil.

Zevran - In the epilogue of DA:O Zevran eventually becomes the leader of the Antivan Crows. If we ever travel to Antiva, we will most likely meet Zevran as the Antivan Crows basically run Antiva.

Varric - Arguably the most popular character of DA2 and a key player in recent DA novels/comics will most likely tie into Hawke or Alistair's story.

Isabella - also a big player in recent novel's/comics and is alive regardless of the games outcome. Will definitely be there and will possibly tie into Alistair or Hawke's story.

Anders/Justice - If alive, he will definitely be seen as he is the one who instigated the war's beginning. Will likely be a commander on the mage side.

Carver/Bethany - will most likely be companions and romancable as there was a large outcry for it in DA2. Plus they were rarely squadmates in DA2. Each represents a side of the conflict.

Cassandra - important character of the mage/templar war and is searching for someone to stop the conflict this person will mostly likely be the player.

Cullen - Bound to be a squadmate due to large fan outcry. Will represent the Templar side.

The Warden and/or Hawke - likely to appear if alive as they may be "war assets to your cause" they may also inform you of where they disappeared to and the bigger threat they have been facing whether it's darkspawn, Flemeth, etc.

Tallis - As some of the story will be in Orlais and that is where she fled to, it is most likely she will be seen.

Sebastian - Will be in charge of Starkhaven and it's army if Anders lived or assisting in whichever faction Hawke supported if Anders died.

Sten - As the new Arishock he is mostly likely to lead the Qunari against the rest of the world as he often spoke of the inevitable Qunari invasion. More specifically he will be attacking the Tevinter mages in this time of turmoil and war as it is the perfect time to strike while the other nations are in disarray. Will be seen if we visit Tevinter or Par Vollen

Fenris - will be fighting against the Tevinter mages in the war as he knows how great a treat they pose. Will have most likely joined the Qunari

Merril - likely to be in the game due to fan popularity and she will be fighting for the mages.

Nathaniel - will mostly likely have a small cameo due to being a grey wardens and will represent their side of things in the war and the threats they are facing.

Oghren - will most likely tie into the Grey Warden and Dwarven side plots. Show their side of the story and will show the darkspawn are still a great threat even with the surface problems.

Shale - major player in Asunder and will most likely be traveling with Lelianna after Wynne's death

Bodan and Sandal - They've been in every game and were sent to Orlais where the majority of the game takes place.

Modifié par darthnick427, 27 décembre 2012 - 07:40 .

[Noviere]

Cullen: Officially-unofficially confirmed to be in the game by the actor who plays him. I was fine with never seeing him again after DAO, though I was glad he'd changed in DA2.

Leliana: It just makes sense, really. For all of the reasons listed in this thread.

Cassandra: See Leliana.

Flemeth: One of my favorite characters from the series. To me, she is manipulating events to shape the future. Without her, the Warden/Hawke would have died before playing their roles. I expect to see her up to her old tricks again in DA3.

Shale: Her role in Asunder makes me hopeful for her return. I absolutely adore this character, and would be overjoyed if she was a companion again... I'd settle for her to just be in the game though.

[LolaLei]

Noviere your avatar is adorable!

Aaaanyway, I'd presume that the following are likely to make an appearance in DA3 in some capacity:

Cassandra: She seems like the most likely to make an appearance, given her investigation in DA2 and the Templar/Seeker split from the Chantry. I could see her being a companion or important npc.

Cullen: His voice actor already let slip that he'd been recording Cullen's dialogue for DA3, but aside from that the Mage/Templar issue is bound to be addressed to some degree in DA3, so it make sense that he'd show up, especially since he aided Hawke at the end of DA2, who has since disappeared. I'm torn about whether I think he'll be a companion or just a cameo (obviously I'd prefer him to be a companion) but we'll see.

Sandal & Bodhan: They were heading for Orlais by the end of DA2 and they're kinda like the R2-D2 'n' C-3PO of the Dragon Age series, so they're bound to pop up at some point, maybe just as cameos but I more likely working for/selling their trade to our new protagonist. 

Flemeth: I think I recall a tweet during the Edmonton Expo saying that Flemeth will be making a brief appearance in DA3. Regardless, a Dragon Age game wouldn't feel right without her swooping in making obscure predictions like a badass. 

Anders/Justice: I could see him/them making a cameo (if you didn't murder knife him) since he's bound to be in the thick of the Mage rebellion. Couldn't imagine he'd want to miss that!

Varric: Because he's awesome!

Fiona: Don't want to spoil anything, but anyone who's read Asunder will know what I'm getting at.

Adrain, Evangeline and Rhys: Same as above, although I'd presume that they'd be less likely than the others listed.

Alistair: If you made him King of Ferelden then I could see him making an appearance/cameo if we need his support for anything. If you kept him as a Warden then I imagine we'd probably run into him if we need to meet with the Wardens for whatever reason (especially if we are to find out whats happened to our Warden and he's her LI). 

Leliana: She's working for the Divine now and is/was helping Cassandra look for the Warden/Hawke with Cassandra so she's bound to show up at some point.

The Divine: For obvious reasons lol.

Anora: For the same reasons as King Alistair if you made her Queen instead or had them rule Ferelden together.

Modifié par LolaLei, 27 décembre 2012 - 03:13 .

[Silfren]

I like how a lot of people just start naming off boatloads of characters they want to or expect to see again, without paying attention to the thread heading being about how it's which characters we think make the most SENSE to return.

I find myself wondering about Isabela. I think it's a given we'll see her again, since even if you turn her over to the Arishok, her story is written so that she'll escape. Bioware couldn't do better to make it clear she'll be returning than to put up a neon sign announcing it.

So I wonder how her return would make sense. She's a smuggler, of course, and she's been prominent in the comics, though I wish Bioware had done more to explain how she ended up working side by side with Alistair again. But unlike Asunder, the comic is more truly an A/U story. If it weren't up to players which monarch ruled Ferelden, I could see Isabela having a role to play in the coming story just from that alone, since the comics laid the groundwork for her appearance, but that's not really the case unless Bioware finds some way to re-write the events from the comics to fit the various canon outcomes for the games. It could only be background information, but that's not trifling stuff.

I would think now that the way Isabela's return would make the most sense would be as lesser content that varies depending on her treatment in DA2. Not necessarily a minor side quest, but probably not crucial to the base story. Something to do with the Qunari, maybe, but not necessarily so.

[ejoslin]

Silfren wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

I think you need to re-read the quote. What people said and what her maid said are different things. But it really doesn't matter to me. If a writer said what you are saying, I wouldn't argue it. However, you are just speculating and I just don't see what it's based upon especially considering that she could be killed.

I get you like the character and you feel that she should be a part of the continuing story. I think the decision was made to bring her back later than you do but ultimately it doesn't matter when. She's coming back which will upset some people and make others happy.

ROFLMAO.  Well, no, you don't get that I like the character and feel she should be a part of the continuing story.  Because I haven't said anything at all about my personal opinion of the character.  Nothing, nada, zip.  And I DON'T have any particular opinion of Leliana, sorry. 

What I actually WROTE was simply that it is not true that her epilogue indicates a second way for her to die.  The epilogue slide in question only HINTS at the possibility, and even as hints go, it's quite vague, so much so that it's far, far from a given that suicide is what it is intended to mean.  If players reading that epilogue slide took it to mean that under certain conditions, Leliana definitely, incontrovertibly killed herself, only to have that ending unfairly retconned by writers who found it inconvenient to their purposes, it is because they lacked either the ability or the willingness to acknowledge the ambiguity of the epilogue's phrasing.  Especially since the epilogues make a POINT of stressing that Leliana "quietly vanished."

My bad, usually when people feel this strongly about something that is pure speculation, there's a love of the character behind it.  Anyway, it does hint quite STRONGLY at that possibility, but none of this invalidates the point that had the plan been, FROM THE START, that she was going to be a continuing character -- or even that it was a strong possibility -- it's hard to believe that she'd be killable.  That she is coming back is true -- she was popular and the writers like her and, yep, she was back in DA2.  But her popularity is probably not nearly as high as the data suggests because of a few bugs.  This is also a fact.  But the data collected most certainly used for other decisions regarding the game.  I have no way of knowing, and nor do you, what made the writers decide to bring Leliana back nor when that decision was made.

But as I said in my previous message, it's a silly thing to argue about.  Neither of us actually have the information to back ourselves up on this. 

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 décembre 2012 - 06:29 .

[ejoslin]

Oh, and I still think it makes sense for Zevran to come back. For US wardens, he does become leader of the Crows. In DA2, his codex talks about the war he's waging on the Crows leadership, which is is obviously winning. And it's not like the Crows are inconsequential. It's hard to believe they won't be used by someone during the unrest that is happening.

However, I can just imagine the screaming if he is brought back. It would make the screaming about Leliana seem like a bunch of carolers.

[LobselVith8]

Silfren wrote...

I do wish people would just get over Leliana already.  You imply that the only reason she was brought back was because the writers saw her as popular.  Sorry, but I don't think writers would go out of their way to retcon a death purely for reasons of fanservice.  More likely they planned to have her be part of the later story from the beginning--you may note that when you meet Leliana in Lothering, she's wearing a necklace called Seeker's Circle?  

I'm not so sure the developers planned this from the beginning, considering the changes made to the Epilogue slides for so many outcomes - including the contradictions between Dragon Age II and the outcomes for the Magi Boon and the Dalish Boon in Origins. I don't think rectons are necessarily a bad thing, since I'm sure plenty of Cullen fans prefer his return to sanity instead of his darker turns at the end of Origins; changes happen all the time. In my opinion, I think the novelization handled Leliana much better than the poorly written Act III "Faith" quest did, which I think greatly contributed to the backlash regarding her return (including the opinion that she came across as anti-mage and OOC in "Faith").

Also, one of the developers said Leliana isn't a member of the Seekers of Truth. I think the "Seeker's Circle" is simply a coincidence as a result.

Silfren wrote...

And she didn't return just for fanservice in DA2, either.  Her relationship with Divine Justinia was established way back during Origins, it wasn't something cooked up at the last minute for DA2 because she was a fave character.

True, her history with Revered Mother Dorothea (the current Divine Justina V) was established in the DLC expansion Leliana's Song (which contradicts her backstory to The Warden in Origins, although this seems to be a result of funding issues to create Orlais for a DLC rather than Leliana lying to The Warden about where these events actually took place). Awakening also had a letter from Leliana to her love interest that her presence was requested by the (unnamed) Grand Cleric.

Silfren wrote...

Anyway, it isn't as though the Warden stays by Leliana's side to make sure she's dead.  You pretty much give her a presumed fatal stab, then walk away, leaving her to die.  It happens often enough in real life that people survive what should have been fatal wounds, even when by rights they SHOULD have died.  So it shouldn't be all that upsetting when a character does exactly the same thing.  Hell the fact that the story even acknowledges Leliana's assumed death speaks volumes: it isn't like Bioware just pretended that they never left it open for players to kill her in Origins.  They easily could have made that player choice nonexistent for DA2, and they pointedly did not do that.  

It wouldn't be the first time Bioware handwaved deaths, however; Oghren, Anders, and Justice can literally come back from the dead, even if they were killed. I think the problem arises when it happens so often that it becomes an issue. Bioware clearly isn't capable of handling the multiple outcomes for so many different Wardens, which seems to be why Dragon Age II railroaded us down such a linear path. Perhaps it isn't realistic of us to expect them to be capable of handling so many different story plots, but I can see why people are frustrated when their choices are overwritten. I was certainly upset at how poorly handled the Magi Boon was handled in Awakening, Witch Hunt, and Dragon Age II, which is why I can sympathize with people who take issue with how some of their choices were overwritten.

Silfren wrote...

Back on topic, I note that beyond the Big Two of Flemeth and Morrigan, you don't think any characters beyond Sten, Anders, or Leliana make sense in returning.  I don't understand this at all.  By naming those five as the only ones that make any sense at all in returning, you left a rather large list of characters whom you don't think make sense.  But why on earth not?  The political climate we'll be facing is such that it would NOT make sense not to see certain nobility of Ferelden again.  Whomever is ruling Ferelden at the time has a vested interest in the civil war taking place in Orlais, but the mage-templar war is also going to have serious repercussions for the politicians involved.  Any characters with family or business ties or political ties to Orlais (hello Guerrin family).  Any characters with connections to the Wardens (all the Warden Commanders new recruits from Awakening).  Any characters with direct interest in the mage/Templar war.  Any characters directly affected by the Qunari threat, or directly connected to the Qunari themselves.  Any characters connected in various was with Tevinter or Tevinter interests.  In short, Cullen, Gregoir, various members of the Guerrin family, the Ferelden monarch, various Wardens, Avernus, Tallis, Isabela, Fenris, Fenris's master whatshisface, Feynriel, etc. etc. etc. 

In short, there are a LOT of characters for whom the story would make sense for them to be return, even if only as side content based on the story decisions from the previous games.  Why on earth do you think it makes sense for only the five you name? 

I think the Mage-Templar War can open up more realistic and plausible reasons to see some of these characters return than Dragon Age II's cameos did although it's going to be an issue of whether it's handled well or not.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

I can see several characters returning acutally.

Alistair if he is King of Ferelden, and his storyline out of the comics at the moment might possibly point to Trevinter magisters trying to bring all the nations under their banner due to the war with the Qunari. That mage in Trevinter has King Maric at this time and is holding King Maric against his will (or this is assumed so). This could also be what happened to the Hero of Ferelden our Wardens. So I do see the potential for Alistair and what is happening in the comics to have some type of impact on the new game. During DA2 we saw Alistair be sympathic to the mages and he gave them a free pass into Ferelden under his protection. We just don't know who these three mages were though. Maybe this same magistar is responsible for the civil war now going on in Orlais and this same Magistar now has Empress Celene as a captive. At the end of Asunder it is not known if Empress Celene is alive or dead. Maybe this is the reason for the Inquistion to find out what the real problem is in all of Thedas. Who is causing all the mischief amongst the nations and what is their aim and purpose? My money is on Trevinter because of the Qunari war. One way for Trevinter to bring the nations to heel would be to kidnap the other nation's Kings, Queens, and their head political leaders/rulers to make the other nations fight against the Qunari. There will be trouble there with Alistair and Sten being together in the comics at this time.

As far as I'm concerned Leliana is a given because of her connection with the Divine. So I do see Leliana returning as a quest giver and I hope not as a companion.

Merrill might play a part since she will be an apostate mage without a clan if you didn't kill her. Some slides at the end of DA2 says she became the Keeper for the elves for the alienage in DA2. So she became their Hahren maybe? Merrill could be anywhere and she also has potential.

I also see Cullen returning for obvious reasons and it will be interesting if our previous game decisions have an impact on his character. Is he straight up against mages or has he changed his tune after what happened with Meredith? Cullen did have an interest in Mage/Warden Amell during the first game so how will these events affect his character in a new game along with the mage/templar war? I see Cullen having the most potential as a returning character.

I see Aveline being in the game as well since her family was originally from Orlais. We are not told at the end of DA2 even if you side with the Templars if she remained as the Captain of the guard or I don't recall her status at this time, so I only see her returning if you sided with the mages. Aveline and her husband would be on the run if you sided with the mages. Now weather she and Donal ran to Ferelden or Orlais remains to be seen. They could have gone to Rivain, Antiva, and Nevarra even. She could also be captain of the guard still in the Free Marches. We are told in Act III that her and Donal had been to Orlais.

Fenris also might have an impact if he went to Orlais, we really don't know he could go either way depending on your decisions in DA2.  I see Fenris becoming a sword for hire.

Sebastian also could return, once again your decisions in game could mean either way. The same with Anders. If Anders is alive he also has alot of potential starting the war and being a warden both.

I see Cassandra in the game with her being a member of the Royal Family out of Nevarra and as a Seeker of the Chantry and a Dragon Hunter. We do know that blood mages are trying to control Dragons from Dawn of the Seeker. So this is a piece of the puzzle (I haven't seen the movie, just read the wiki).

Varric and Isabela is anyone's guess and what they are doing with Alistair. The last comic I read did have Alistair, Sten, Varric, and Isabela headed to Trevinter to find out what happened with King Maric and to hunt down this Trevinter Magistar.

Anora also might make an appearance so could Nathaniel Howe depending on your decisions and I also see the potential for Zevran if you didn't kill him and he is the leader of the Crows and if Trevinter is causing havoc amonst the nations. Zevran to represent the Crows or be a quest giver in the new game. What impact will the game have on Antiva and Rivain? We really don't know much about Rivain except Qunari have an impact there.

I also can see a new Warden Commander being a companion or quest giver. I'd prefer my own Warden which we know probably won't happen.

I can also see Bethany and Carver if they didn't die in the deep roads.

Also what impact or possiblities will the Legacy dlc have on the new game and Tallis as well? We'll just have to wait and see. I just wish we were starting to get some information on the game.

Shale also, she could be anywhere and also be a sword for hire. 

I don't see Wynne returning at all and I think her character is finally dead but the spirit within her is not.  So there is potential there because of the Templar girlfriend of Wynne's son Rhys.

We also have no idea what happened with Justice if you killed Anders.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 27 décembre 2012 - 07:25 .

[LobselVith8]

Silfren wrote...

I like how a lot of people just start naming off boatloads of characters they want to or expect to see again, without paying attention to the thread heading being about how it's which characters we think make the most SENSE to return.

I find myself wondering about Isabela. I think it's a given we'll see her again, since even if you turn her over to the Arishok, her story is written so that she'll escape. Bioware couldn't do better to make it clear she'll be returning than to put up a neon sign announcing it.

So I wonder how her return would make sense. She's a smuggler, of course, and she's been prominent in the comics, though I wish Bioware had done more to explain how she ended up working side by side with Alistair again. But unlike Asunder, the comic is more truly an A/U story. If it weren't up to players which monarch ruled Ferelden, I could see Isabela having a role to play in the coming story just from that alone, since the comics laid the groundwork for her appearance, but that's not really the case unless Bioware finds some way to re-write the events from the comics to fit the various canon outcomes for the games. It could only be background information, but that's not trifling stuff.

I would think now that the way Isabela's return would make the most sense would be as lesser content that varies depending on her treatment in DA2. Not necessarily a minor side quest, but probably not crucial to the base story. Something to do with the Qunari, maybe, but not necessarily so.

Perhaps Isabela's backstory with the Qunari will play a role, if she returns in Inquisition? Since the Qunari might play a role in Inquisition, it could be a possible avenue to bring Isabela into the narrative.

[SamaraDraven]

Thank you all, for your input! I wish I had time to stay and discuss all the good ideas here but my job must take me away again. Please continue to chat and discuss, I'd love to see what else may be said in my absence. Until next time, be well and be happy!

[Mike3207]

You can't have a game based in Orlais and not have Loghain. If i remember correctly, that's where he got sent.

[zeMadMonkey]

I guess a major a factor is the survival rates of comapnions as some have a 100% survival rate e.g Isabela, Varric, Leliana. Then other don't like Anders, Zevran etc but that could only be affected if they play a major or minor part like Zevran did in DA2

Then you could look at the roles they play in the story and how major it would be e.g Isabela and her relations with the Qunari as it seems the Qun demands she be brought to them whether she leaves with the Tome or you fight the Arishok for her, Leliana and her quest to find the Warden/Hawke.

Another factor would be if they are romanceable as that could determine if Hawke/Warden will appear with some of the characters. Say if they don't include the warden/hawke then that could affect a characters appearance or it might not it all depends on how Bioware handle it
In terms of sense of them returning it depends on the content of the game, if their are qunari then Isabela might make an appearance, if there are tevinter magistaers/slavers then Fenris might.

The ones I think have the most sense due to the reasons above are: Leliana, Flemeth, Morrigan, Isabela, Cullen, Varric, Alistair, Cassandra

[Skye Evergreene]

I would laugh so hard if Cullen wasn't a returning character

I can't see Fenris coming back, but please dear god if you do anything Bioware PLEASE have his voice actor stay. I don't care if he says hey! that one time randomly in some pub, just PLEASE.

...anyway, I can see people like Merrill Zevran, and ESPECIALLY Aveline. That girl's story seriously is empty. Also maybe Isabella, just so we can look more into her character?