dainbramage wrote...
There are a few reasons.
Talent spam as you mentioned. Rogues are welcome to backstab, but hitting 4 enemies with a sweep still does a ton of damage. Cunning rogues have horrendous attack - like it tops out at just over 100, while a warrior's at 130 or more. My cunning rogue only had an 85% chance to hit at the end of the game, despite having Wynne's tactics permanently set to spam heroic offense on my rogue. My warrior was at 97% with no outside help. But then even if you do have a 100% chance to hit rogues are only slightly ahead - but you can't backstab 100% of the time. Anything holding a shield, anything you draw aggro from and turns to face you, or simply the time taken to position yourself is time you're not backstabbing while a warrior would be doing full damage.
But the main reason is that dual striking is really weird, and if you abuse it properly, even with both parties never missing (apart from the buggy animation in dual striking) and not using talents, a front-attacking warrior will quite easily outdamage a backstabbing rogue in idealized situations. And yes, that is taking into account the tendency of dual striking to miss. Mostly, it's because the game only checks the speed of your main weapon when dual striking - so with a dagger in your main hand and a large weapon offhand, you attack twice as fast as if you were dual wielding daggers. A third of those attacks miss and you can't crit, but that's compensated for by making 4 hit checks per second.
Right, with talents warriors have lot more damage potential. What I'm wondering here is what is the correct way to compare DPS. To be honest, I have no idea myself. I mean, one can argue that a mage casting the 'Storm of the Century' combo outdamages everyone. Would that be wrong? For comparing DPS, should we use single target DPS, or rather AoE DPS? I don't know if it's right to say that one class outdamages another class flatly, as it seems to me, everything is situational. I mean, if there's a room full of enemies, and a mage casts SotC without even needing an LoS, he outdamages everybody. If suddenly ambushed and surrounded, a warrior can unleash Whirlwind, Sweeps, and outdamage his team members. A single target battle, say a revenant or an Ogre battle, an a rogue will strip down it's HP faster than his team members, and will outdamage them. So, what I'm getting to here is that we can theorycraft in a laboratory setup and calculate who has more damage potential, but doesn't it depend on the setup of the battlefield in a practical sense? I may be wrong, but it seems to me that cross-class comparasion is not really possible and will always remain ambiguous!
My personal experience with 'attack' and backstabs:
I know this will vary from person to person, but I had no problem stealing backstabs most of the time.
I had Alistair, Leliana, Wynne in my party the last time I was playing a cunning rogue. I spec'ed out Alistair from templer to Reaver, to augment his 'taunt'. Most of the time enemies were surrounding him. So, backstabbing was easy. Then of course, some critters would rush towards me every now and then, but all I have to do is use 'dirty fighting' or 'riposte' to eliminate them, and coup de grace ensured that these are counted as backstabs. Then carry on with the usual backstabbing of the ones surrounding Alistair. There is also the option to just stealth out if swarmed. I've set up Leliana to unleash scatter shot if I'm swarmed, and thus free Coup de graces. I don't take the Mass paralysis line generally, but for this very playthrough I got that tree for Wynne, for a couple of more backstab fodder. Positioning for backstabbing doesn't even come into the picture when someone's stunned or paralyzed. And the unusual thing is even Shield wielding foes can be backstabbed when stunned or paralyzed, unllike how upgraded shield talents available for a tank behaves, which provide immunity to backstabs. Even a revenant can be backstabbed when paralyzed. On top of that, I got the weapons enchanted with 6 paralyze runes of different tiers and used Conc.deathroot extract/Conc.crow poison. That is a considerable amount of paralyzing chance, and IIRC i got the high dragon to paralyze twice during the battle for a couple of seconds, in which a lot of backstabs can be stolen. I had 'tainted blade' sustained all the time, and by endgame that meant over 20 damage bonus for each hit.
Regarding attack rating, I topped out at 136 attack with two SoC's and Heroic Offense. When I'm in the tanks rally range, it went up to 146. So, no, I had no problems with attack rating.
As I said, this was a personal experience, and i can't really expect others to have similar experience.
If I may ask, what are you taking as the reference for calculating the % to hit? Doesn't it depend upon the enemy's defense rating?
That thing you mentioned about dual striking is not much clear to me. So please correct me if I am wrong. I don't get how is it really outdamaging a rogue. It seems to be situational. I mean for example, by the time a dual striker will undergo 12 attack hit checks, a rogue will complete only 6 backstabs. Because of 1/3 hits registered as miss, only 8 of those will connect. So we are essentially comparing 8 normal hits to 6 backstabs(or crits). Is it outdamging?
Of course, i understand this is just a laboratory test set up, ignoring all the time taken for target switching and positioning, etc.
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