15 réponses à ce sujet

[I Tsunayoshi I]

 Which would be the better power to use on a Soldier?

I'm using Reave on an old build that I just picked up with again, but wondering if Flare would outclass it in the combo department and in the raw power department.

[dreman9999]

Not flare with it's cooldown.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Seeing as Shep with it gets an improved cooldown (5-6 sec according to ME Wikia), and other cooldown upgrades could bring it down around the same point as Reave..

[Dai_Nichi]

Take the bonus power evolution of adrenaline rush and you can mitigate the long recharge time. In fact you can ignore it and focus on flares other upgrades. Bring Liara with you and combo off her warp and you will be producing biotic explosions twice the size of normal along with the huge damage and radius of flare.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Dai_Nichi wrote...

Take the bonus power evolution of adrenaline rush and you can mitigate the long recharge time. In fact you can ignore it and focus on flares other upgrades. Bring Liara with you and combo off her warp and you will be producing biotic explosions twice the size of normal along with the huge damage and radius of flare.

My usual combo choice with Liara is Singularity for grabbing stuff like Guardians, not to say that Warp isnt effective either. Only thing I am debating before I make the change (after I get access to Flare) is which would be better in the damage department since the main reason to have the Biotic bonus powers is to set off combos in the first place.

[Dai_Nichi]

Sora Kitano wrote...

Dai_Nichi wrote...

Take the bonus power evolution of adrenaline rush and you can mitigate the long recharge time. In fact you can ignore it and focus on flares other upgrades. Bring Liara with you and combo off her warp and you will be producing biotic explosions twice the size of normal along with the huge damage and radius of flare.

My usual combo choice with Liara is Singularity for grabbing stuff like Guardians, not to say that Warp isnt effective either. Only thing I am debating before I make the change (after I get access to Flare) is which would be better in the damage department since the main reason to have the Biotic bonus powers is to set off combos in the first place.

I generally prefer that as well. Even with my adept I ignore singularity as Liara's is better. But warp and flare are only powers that increase the size of a biotic explosion. Combine them together and youve got a huge explosion occuring within flares own radius. And liara's warp ignores cover, just like her singularity.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I'll consider going for a detonation boost then for Liara's Warp and anything to that nature when I swap over to Flare.

On another note, is Lash worth it in SP, or MP for that matter?

[capn233]

Sora Kitano wrote...

On another note, is Lash worth it in SP, or MP for that matter?

In SP I think it is worth running on Aria during Omega just so she can use a power to CC shielded enemies rapidly.  This requires Rank 6 of course.  This is partly because you only have Aria for a large portion of the mission and it is harder to do combos anyway, depending on Shepard's class.

In MP it depends.  I do not care for it.  I have not played the Batarian Adept yet, but I think the Phoenix Adept is better served by Singularity and Smash with a good weapon, and the Vanguard can get away with Charge and Smash as well.  Both characters can deal with Phantoms reasonably easily without bothering with Lash.  Batarian Vanguard also has it, and I ignore it completely there to focus on melee.

[Vicious Mello]

Sora Kitano wrote...

Seeing as Shep with it gets an improved cooldown (5-6 sec according to ME Wikia), and other cooldown upgrades could bring it down around the same point as Reave..

That's pretty much incorrect. It is reduced, but unless you're leveling Shepard solely to reduce power cooldown as much as possible, including the squad bonus levels of your party members, your Flare cooldown will be at least 7 or 8 seconds, even with +200% weight bonus.

[zaku257]

Haven't tried out flare myself but in SP lash is pretty useful to drag enemies out of cover and sometimes can severely hurt or kill target if you aim it correctly to pull the enemy upward or hit some obstacles.
In MP lash sucks, don't ask why.
But Flare in MP?Hmmm...OP or meh?

[Crocodiles]

Flare works best with an Infiltrator, because you can Cloak cancel for a shorter cooldown on Flare and also boost its damage a lot more.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Vicious Mello wrote...

Sora Kitano wrote...

Seeing as Shep with it gets an improved cooldown (5-6 sec according to ME Wikia), and other cooldown upgrades could bring it down around the same point as Reave..

That's pretty much incorrect. It is reduced, but unless you're leveling Shepard solely to reduce power cooldown as much as possible, including the squad bonus levels of your party members, your Flare cooldown will be at least 7 or 8 seconds, even with +200% weight bonus.

Taken straight from the wikia itself:
During combat, when Aria is using this power, the cooldown is 24 (19.35) seconds, but when used by Commander Shepard, the power recharges in 5.95 seconds.

So someone is wrong, and I'd side with them over a forum random.

[RedCaesar97]

Sora Kitano wrote...

Vicious Mello wrote...

Sora Kitano wrote...

Seeing as Shep with it gets an improved cooldown (5-6 sec according to ME Wikia), and other cooldown upgrades could bring it down around the same point as Reave..

That's pretty much incorrect. It is reduced, but unless you're leveling Shepard solely to reduce power cooldown as much as possible, including the squad bonus levels of your party members, your Flare cooldown will be at least 7 or 8 seconds, even with +200% weight bonus.

Taken straight from the wikia itself:
During combat, when Aria is using this power, the cooldown is 24 (19.35) seconds, but when used by Commander Shepard, the power recharges in 5.95 seconds.

So someone is wrong, and I'd side with them over a forum random.

Okay, just tested this in-game. My Shepard has +10% Power Recharge bonuses from Intel. No recharge bonuses from squadmates or armor.

With +200% weapon weight:
Rank 1: 6.45 seconds to recharge
Rank 2: 5.97 seconds
Rank 5 Recharge evolution: 5.48 seconds

With +150% weapon weight:
Rank 1: 7.69 seconds
Rank 2: 7.02 seconds 6.35
Rank 3 Recharge evolution: 

With +98% weapon weight:
Rank 1: 9.65 seconds
Rank 2: 8.61 seconds
Rank 5 Recharge evolution: 7.63

Hope that helps.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I'll get around to posting the stats when I get the power for myself. Only cooldown bonus I should have should be from Intel and Liara.

[Darkstar Aurora]

Sora Kitano wrote...

Vicious Mello wrote...

Sora Kitano wrote...

Seeing as Shep with it gets an improved cooldown (5-6 sec according to ME Wikia), and other cooldown upgrades could bring it down around the same point as Reave..

That's pretty much incorrect. It is reduced, but unless you're leveling Shepard solely to reduce power cooldown as much as possible, including the squad bonus levels of your party members, your Flare cooldown will be at least 7 or 8 seconds, even with +200% weight bonus.

Taken straight from the wikia itself:
During combat, when Aria is using this power, the cooldown is 24 (19.35) seconds, but when used by Commander Shepard, the power recharges in 5.95 seconds.

So someone is wrong, and I'd side with them over a forum random.

You seem to be implying that a five second recharge speed is good and that the Mass Effect Wikia is somehow an official or well researched peer-edited document. Neither is the case, and the wikia is certainly no more credible than any "forum random". The breadth of disinformation and subjective numbers littering many of is pages can be staggering at times.

The cooldown number on the wiki is not the inherent cooldown for Shepard; it is the number that appeared to the player based on the recharge speed bonuses they had on their character at that point in time.

The base innate recharge time for Flare---without ANY bonuses or upgrades---is 30 seconds for Aria and 20 seconds for Shepard.

As a squadmate Aria receives no bonuses or penalties from weapon loadout, and because she is a temporary character she also has no armor bonuses. This means the only recharge speed bonuses she receives are from the power itself at rank 2 (+25%) and 5 (+30%) which lowers her recharge to 19.35 per the recharge speed formula:

[innate recharge speed] / (1 + [sum of all % bonuses])

Shepard can get multiple persistent recharge speed bonuses from the following sources
+200% Weapon loadout
+25% Flare rank 2
+30% Flare rank 5a
+20% Shadow Broker Intel recharge bonuses x4
+50% Archon Visor and all four Rosenkov armor pieces

Situational bonuses from these sources can apply as well
+10% Liara Pure Biotic rank 6a (if Liara is in squad)
+40% Combo Mastery option for Biotic Mastery 6a (Adept only option; 30 seconds after detonating a biotic combo)

Even with all of those static and dynamic/situational bonuses you still have a 4.21 recharge speed on Flare. Meanwhile a soldier is at 4.54.
In either case, stacking so many diminishing-returns recharge bonuses onto a weapons class that is not intended to be a power user results in a character that performs poorly with both weapons and powers equally.

This is because your Soldier is now
* carrying an egregiously weak weapon loadout for your class..seeing how only two of your normal class powers--Adrenaline Rush and Concussive Shot--actually require recharge speed and your passive/duration powers boost weapon damage
* have no weapon/shield/health/ammo bonuses from armor, because they are geared towards recharge speed
* have virtually no power bonuses from your class passive that will improve or compliment the effectiveness of Flare.

If you are going to use Flare on soldier then you aught to do it with Adrenaline Rush, not with stacking recharge speeds onto a character that is designed for a weapons focus.

Regardless....no power is worth 4 seconds of recharge time when you have applied every recharge speed bonus in the game to your character. To put this in perspective, in the time it would take an Adept with ALL of the above bonuses to recharge Flare she could just as easily use those same bonuses to perform:

Warp > Throw > Warp > Cluster Grenade

The first two powers alone would out damage Flare alone on higher difficulties, and the full sequence would out damage any other singleplayer biotic combo executed by Shepard alone in the same timeframe.

End point is that Flare is seen as powerful because Aria is powerful (+140% Power Damage bonus) and because as a squad member she has few other options for her cooldown and does not suffer (or benefit) from weapon encumbrance. On the biotic classes Flare is more of a decorative flourish or trophy power rather than something that expands their tactical repertoire in an efficient way. Meanwhile on the combat or tech classes it is sometimes a welcome diversion from their usual methods of attack, but rarely synergizes well.

I love the power, it is just not worth its current cooldown.

Modifié par Darkstar Aurora, 23 décembre 2012 - 06:18 .

[Ishiken]

Thank you for stating Flare as a giant damage sinkhole for Adepts. The power has such a long cool down that you basically gimp your damage against big enemies such as Atlas, Brutes and Banshees if you ever use it to combo.