xsdob wrote...
What makes you think he's okay with either destroy or control? He basically says he hates them but that it's what the options do.
Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 22 décembre 2012 - 08:09 .
Modifié par xsdob, 22 décembre 2012 - 08:11 .
xsdob wrote...
You assume he has a choice in presenting those options to shepard, that's where you logic seems flawed. Docking the crucible seems to have created a new shackle for the AI, forcing it to comply limitedly and present three alternatives that were designed to fix the "problem" more thoroughly than the reapers could.
Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
The Crucible had pre-made solutions (built to spec). The flaw is in the scope through which the Catalyst feels obligated to entertain the new "possibilities." The Reaper leader could easily call for a cease fire or bring in someone else to make this pivotal choice if Shepard refuses. The Catalyst never refers to his talk with Shepard as an obligation, it's just entertaining ideas.
Also realise that while he's saying this, the Reapers are actually attacking the Crucible (and destroy it if Shepard takes too much time to choose).
JPN17 wrote...
If god kid hates destroy why would it even give it as an option? I mean really? How can its programming allow Shepard to destroy all the reapers when the god kid's sole reason for existing is galactic preservation? Make less than zero sense.
HYR 2.0 wrote...
JPN17 wrote...
If god kid hates destroy why would it even give it as an option? I mean really? How can its programming allow Shepard to destroy all the reapers when the god kid's sole reason for existing is galactic preservation? Make less than zero sense.
He has a solution (harvesting) to a problem (advanced synthetics wiping out organics). The solution is outdated once the Crucible docks on the Citadel, because organics are on the cusp of proving they can defeat advanced synthetics and need not be "saved" from inevitable extinction. So he offers Destroy to wipe out his outdated solution.
If this were a human we were dealing with, that human might be too arrogant or spiteful to want to admit being wrong, but this is a catalyst with a straightforward train of thought: "my solution is outdated, it needs to go."
The chaos (war/conflicts) will come back, but it's no longer a guarantee that organic races are doomed to extinction.
HYR 2.0 wrote...
JPN17 wrote...
If god kid hates destroy why would it even give it as an option? I mean really? How can its programming allow Shepard to destroy all the reapers when the god kid's sole reason for existing is galactic preservation? Make less than zero sense.
He has a solution (harvesting) to a problem (advanced synthetics wiping out organics). The solution is outdated once the Crucible docks on the Citadel, because organics are on the cusp of proving they can defeat advanced synthetics and need not be "saved" from inevitable extinction. So he offers Destroy to wipe out his outdated solution.
If this were a human we were dealing with, that human might be too arrogant or spiteful to want to admit being wrong, but this is a catalyst with a straightforward train of thought: "my solution is outdated, it needs to go."
The chaos (war/conflicts) will come back, but it's no longer a guarantee that organic races are doomed to extinction.
JPN17 wrote...
HYR 2.0 wrote...
JPN17 wrote...
If god kid hates destroy why would it even give it as an option? I mean really? How can its programming allow Shepard to destroy all the reapers when the god kid's sole reason for existing is galactic preservation? Make less than zero sense.
He has a solution (harvesting) to a problem (advanced synthetics wiping out organics). The solution is outdated once the Crucible docks on the Citadel, because organics are on the cusp of proving they can defeat advanced synthetics and need not be "saved" from inevitable extinction. So he offers Destroy to wipe out his outdated solution.
If this were a human we were dealing with, that human might be too arrogant or spiteful to want to admit being wrong, but this is a catalyst with a straightforward train of thought: "my solution is outdated, it needs to go."
The chaos (war/conflicts) will come back, but it's no longer a guarantee that organic races are doomed to extinction.
That still doesn't explain why it would allow Shepard to destroy billions of years of preservation. Also the crucible needs god kid to work. As it stated, "The device you refer to as the crucible is little more than a power source." The only reason Shepard even had a chance to choose was because god kid itself brought him/her up there, to a room organics had never made it to. All it had to do was let Shepard bleed out and that's that. It doesn't matter how advanced of a crucible the galaxy makes if they can't activate it.
xsdob wrote...
Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
The Crucible had pre-made solutions (built to spec). The flaw is in the scope through which the Catalyst feels obligated to entertain the new "possibilities." The Reaper leader could easily call for a cease fire or bring in someone else to make this pivotal choice if Shepard refuses. The Catalyst never refers to his talk with Shepard as an obligation, it's just entertaining ideas.
Also realise that while he's saying this, the Reapers are actually attacking the Crucible (and destroy it if Shepard takes too much time to choose).
Yeah, like I said, the crucible made a new shackle for the AI, making it consider new posibilities other than it's reapers.
Of course it doesn't want to complie, the galaxy is it's testing site, and it doesn't want to change really, at all. In refuse, he yells so be it. However, his tone becoming omnipotent can be interpreted differently. The way I see it, it's a cry of success and triumph from the catalyst, it's way has been proven correct and the shackles of the crucible have been removed.
Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 22 décembre 2012 - 08:49 .
MegaSovereign wrote...
HYR 2.0 wrote...
JPN17 wrote...
If god kid hates destroy why would it even give it as an option? I mean really? How can its programming allow Shepard to destroy all the reapers when the god kid's sole reason for existing is galactic preservation? Make less than zero sense.
He has a solution (harvesting) to a problem (advanced synthetics wiping out organics). The solution is outdated once the Crucible docks on the Citadel, because organics are on the cusp of proving they can defeat advanced synthetics and need not be "saved" from inevitable extinction. So he offers Destroy to wipe out his outdated solution.
If this were a human we were dealing with, that human might be too arrogant or spiteful to want to admit being wrong, but this is a catalyst with a straightforward train of thought: "my solution is outdated, it needs to go."
The chaos (war/conflicts) will come back, but it's no longer a guarantee that organic races are doomed to extinction.
I like this human, he understands.
I'd also like to point out that the Catalyst doesn't control the variables of the Crucible. It doesn't decide on what the Crucible does exactly.
Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 22 décembre 2012 - 08:37 .
MegaSovereign wrote...
JPN17 wrote...
HYR 2.0 wrote...
JPN17 wrote...
If god kid hates destroy why would it even give it as an option? I mean really? How can its programming allow Shepard to destroy all the reapers when the god kid's sole reason for existing is galactic preservation? Make less than zero sense.
He has a solution (harvesting) to a problem (advanced synthetics wiping out organics). The solution is outdated once the Crucible docks on the Citadel, because organics are on the cusp of proving they can defeat advanced synthetics and need not be "saved" from inevitable extinction. So he offers Destroy to wipe out his outdated solution.
If this were a human we were dealing with, that human might be too arrogant or spiteful to want to admit being wrong, but this is a catalyst with a straightforward train of thought: "my solution is outdated, it needs to go."
The chaos (war/conflicts) will come back, but it's no longer a guarantee that organic races are doomed to extinction.
That still doesn't explain why it would allow Shepard to destroy billions of years of preservation. Also the crucible needs god kid to work. As it stated, "The device you refer to as the crucible is little more than a power source." The only reason Shepard even had a chance to choose was because god kid itself brought him/her up there, to a room organics had never made it to. All it had to do was let Shepard bleed out and that's that. It doesn't matter how advanced of a crucible the galaxy makes if they can't activate it.
The Crucible doesn't need the "god kid" to work. It needed the Citadel since it is the hub of the relay network.
The next cycle wins even if the current one does not activate the Crucible. Winning one more cycle wouldn't have mattered much to the Catalyst. It's best hope was to convince Shepard to compromise with Synthesis, hence why it's mad if your EMS is too low.
JPN17 wrote...
That still doesn't explain why it would allow Shepard to destroy billions of years of preservation.
Also the crucible needs god kid to work. As it stated, "The device you refer to as the crucible is little more than a power source." The only reason Shepard even had a chance to choose was because god kid itself brought him/her up there, to a room organics had never made it to. All it had to do was let Shepard bleed out and that's that. It doesn't matter how advanced of a crucible the galaxy makes if they can't activate it.
Modifié par HYR 2.0, 22 décembre 2012 - 08:45 .
Kataphrut94 wrote...
He says any solution is preferrable to the Reapers. Apparantly they were a holding pattern designed to keep the galaxy stable and ticking over while waiting for a proper one to emerge. He doesn't like Destroy because it's clearly a temporary solution, but again any solution is better than another bloody pointless Reaper cycle. Control is neutral on because that's just giving the keys to the original solution over to someone else and see if they can do a better job with it, and Synthesis is kind of the 'cutting the knot' approach to his impossible query: since organics and synthetics can't co-exist, let's just get rid of both ideas and make everybody organic AND synthetic.
Yeah, flawed machine logic at it's finest, but if it makes the Reapers give up and let's everybody pick up radio transmissions in their fillings then who's to argue?
xsdob wrote...
Well, let's think about this for a second. Think about how many organic species have been wiped out in the cycles permanently, with no chance of cataloging them or preserving them, because of the conflict that arises from differences. Synthetics vs organics would be the most costly war, but it's not the only conflict and not the only example of entire species being eradicated by organics.
We can't stop killing eachother, and we do it too well. So there's no point in leaving us alone, becasue we'll just permanently destroy ourselves unless someone steps in and stops us. The catalyst solution is to remove differences from the equation, thus allowing conflicts between the species to stop existing as well.
It's sick, it's wrong, it's a horrible solution, and it's something the catalyst, the villian of the cycles, would do.
Ticonderoga117 wrote...
Kataphrut94 wrote...
He says any solution is preferrable to the Reapers. Apparantly they were a holding pattern designed to keep the galaxy stable and ticking over while waiting for a proper one to emerge. He doesn't like Destroy because it's clearly a temporary solution, but again any solution is better than another bloody pointless Reaper cycle. Control is neutral on because that's just giving the keys to the original solution over to someone else and see if they can do a better job with it, and Synthesis is kind of the 'cutting the knot' approach to his impossible query: since organics and synthetics can't co-exist, let's just get rid of both ideas and make everybody organic AND synthetic.
Yeah, flawed machine logic at it's finest, but if it makes the Reapers give up and let's everybody pick up radio transmissions in their fillings then who's to argue?
Apparently this isn't the case since just telling them to go away or what have you simply isn't an option, even though he says he wants a new solution.
Kataphrut94 wrote...
Ticonderoga117 wrote...
Kataphrut94 wrote...
He says any solution is preferrable to the Reapers. Apparantly they were a holding pattern designed to keep the galaxy stable and ticking over while waiting for a proper one to emerge. He doesn't like Destroy because it's clearly a temporary solution, but again any solution is better than another bloody pointless Reaper cycle. Control is neutral on because that's just giving the keys to the original solution over to someone else and see if they can do a better job with it, and Synthesis is kind of the 'cutting the knot' approach to his impossible query: since organics and synthetics can't co-exist, let's just get rid of both ideas and make everybody organic AND synthetic.
Yeah, flawed machine logic at it's finest, but if it makes the Reapers give up and let's everybody pick up radio transmissions in their fillings then who's to argue?
Apparently this isn't the case since just telling them to go away or what have you simply isn't an option, even though he says he wants a new solution.
Because that would leave no solution. Anything is preferrable to the Reapers, but with nothing else to fill the gap, those damned fool advanced races would just screw everything up for all the lesser species.
Look, these are his views, not mine. If you want to tell them to go away yourself, just pick Control.
Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 22 décembre 2012 - 09:09 .
Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 22 décembre 2012 - 09:12 .
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