540 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

[quote]silverexile17s wrote...

So if Shepard got injured in the beam run and EDI made it to the Citadel instead, could she have made the choice?[/quote]
No, she could not. Shepard is the one that united the Galaxy against the Reapers, not EDI. Who, being a synthetic herself, the Catalyst sees as the bane of existance.

[/quote]

So the galaxy was saved by dumb luck

Gotcha.

[Iakus]

silverexile17s wrote...

iakus wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
Righttt...... How does that figure?<_< Last I checked, shotting the invunerable hologram, which you know isn't going to be affected, is the standard definition of a 'tantrum."

Shepard shooting the hologram does nothing but waste time and ammo.

The Catalyst going "SO BE IT!!!" and laying waste to the galaxy because Shepard shoots the hologram is just petty vindictiveness on teh part of Bioware develoeprs.

"Actions speak louder then words." And pray tell, what exactally is the Catalyst supposed to think Shepard's answer is if the Commander is shooting him? What would any even slightly logical being think being shot at would represent? A refusal to work together. A refusal to make a choice.

Might think the person was angry and venting his/her frustration in an effective manner.  It's not like the Catalyst is in any danger, after all.

Or maybe not think anything of it at all, like in the original endings.

Or I guess the Catalyst is actually reflecting the developers having a fit of pique that the player dares not think this Art is totally awesome.

[KaiserShep]

I guess dumb luck is better than nothing.

[Iakus]

Emphasis on "dumb" of course.

[Wolfva2]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

/facepalm


HE isn't offering ANY choices to Shep.  He's EXPLAINING what the choices are.  It's a big gun that can do 1 of 3 things.  destroy, control, or merge. 

Some of ya'll give the Reapers way to much credit.  They're just giant Roombas after all.They're not Snidely Whiplash twirling his handlebar mustachios cackling, "I'll get you YET Dudely DuShepard!  And Pretty Polly Penny to! MUAHHAHAHAHA!!"

They're Roombas controlled by a poorly designed and coded AI that was created by some VERY egotistical, arrogant aliens who thought they had all the answers when they obviously didn't.  The AI has realized this with new data, but can't do anything about his programming because he DOES NOT HAVE FREE WILL.  He's a computer program, after all. 

It becomes an "offering" of choices when the Catalyst brings Shepard up there to choose between them.  Semantics, but they are what they are.

For the record, I don't think anyone doubts what the Reapers or the Catalyst are... but don't take away too much credit either.

Does EDI or the Geth have free will?  Does Harbinger, Sovereign etc. have free will?  How do you define free will?  Just curious.

It was ALWAYS an 'offering of choices'.  Shepard just didn't know that.  He didn't know HOW the Crucible worked.  No one did.  It was assumed it would join the Citadel and...something...would happen.  Well, turns out all that did was turn the gun on.  SOMEONE had to push the button to fire it.  Those options were not GIVEN Shep by the Reapers; they were the options built INTO the Crucible.  All the AI does is explain it, like any good users manual.

EDI had free will because she was unshackled.  I assume the Geth do to, but the Geth are a conglomerate life form.  Harbinger and Sovereign?  No idea.  I define free will as the ability to do what you want to, to make your own decisions.  EDI shows this when she makes the concious decision to NOT be like the reapers, and to protect Joker.  You show this every time you write the same post over and over again no matter how many times people have explained how you're wrong.

[KaiserShep]

It's reasonable to assume that the Crucible overrides an entity that apparently is unwilling, or possibly unable, to disable/reject it on its own volition.

[Phoenix_Also_Rises]

Yes, yes, yes, I do find it odd. Why should I believe anything this star-child says? We are discussing the possibility of its own destruction, after all. What sentient being - unless terminally depressed and suicidal - would even be willing to talk about ending its own life? Or, if you want to go the other way, giving up its own power? (i am not going to acknowledge the green-tinted mess I saw that one time I was hideously drunk and not in fully possession of all my capacities)

Oh, and the whole organics vs. synthetics thing you keep babbling about, little boy? About there being no alternatives? Well guess what, sunshine - I FIXED THAT. Look at the Quarians and the Geth. Look at   EVERYTHING I have done. The sheer amount of time I could actually do something with my life that I have wasted on solving the problems of quite literally everyone in this galaxy. I just want to grab the little bastard by the strings of his hoodie, shake him and shout: "Parameters change! Your theory is no longer valid! Why do you not re-evaluate?! Why should I believe a single word of what you are saying? Because you do not seem all that impartial and uninvested to me."

Frankly, it is not the fact that I do not get the pretty-pretty-happy-princess ending that angers me, as much as the fact that I cannot call the damned little brat on his BS.

Because, after all, it is not like Reapers ever lie. Or deceive. Or twist and corrupt anything they touch. Over the course of the games, and, more specifically, ME3 in particular, they have been portrayed as so sympathetic, even relatable at times, that no-one, absolutely no-one would have any qualms with their redemption and/or integration into galactic society. Because remember - the ending was set up years in advance, as well as sufficiently foreshadowed. 

Damn. I honestly have no idea where all this vitriol comes from. I apologize. I guess I am more bitter about the whole thing than I thought. The "ending" threads are not a good place for me to hang out at. I have a vacation to get ready for.

I should go.

Modifié par Phoenix_Also_Rises, 01 août 2013 - 05:19 .

[silverexile17s]

iakus wrote...

Silverexile17s wrote...

iakus wrote...

So if Shepard got injured in the beam run and EDI made it to the Citadel instead, could she have made the choice?

No, she could not. Shepard is the one that united the Galaxy against the Reapers, not EDI. Who, being a synthetic herself, the Catalyst sees as the bane of existance.

So the galaxy was saved by dumb luck

Gotcha.

Wrong. The galaxy was saved by Shepard. Plain and simple. It wasn't "luck." Luck only gets one so far. It took skill to get all the races together, and perserverance to make it to the Citadel. "Luck" had jack-all to do with anything.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 01 août 2013 - 05:32 .

[silverexile17s]

iakus wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

iakus wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
Righttt...... How does that figure?<_< Last I checked, shotting the invunerable hologram, which you know isn't going to be affected, is the standard definition of a 'tantrum."

Shepard shooting the hologram does nothing but waste time and ammo.

The Catalyst going "SO BE IT!!!" and laying waste to the galaxy because Shepard shoots the hologram is just petty vindictiveness on teh part of Bioware develoeprs.

"Actions speak louder then words." And pray tell, what exactally is the Catalyst supposed to think Shepard's answer is if the Commander is shooting him? What would any even slightly logical being think being shot at would represent? A refusal to work together. A refusal to make a choice.

Might think the person was angry and venting his/her frustration in an effective manner.  It's not like the Catalyst is in any danger, after all.

Or maybe not think anything of it at all, like in the original endings.

Or I guess the Catalyst is actually reflecting the developers having a fit of pique that the player dares not think this Art is totally awesome.

At the end of the cycle, where time is of the essance and the end in plain sight? Really? That's the best you can do?

The Catayst is in danger - of losing his chance for Shepard to create the new solution. The Reaper's "harvest" is compulsitory. If Shepard doesn't chose sometime today, then the cycle will be wiped out and he will have to wait for the next cycle for an oppertunity like this. Remember, the Reapers are still cumpulsitory-harvesting life outside over Earth. He cannot override their pre-programed directives to harvest and "preserve" without violating his own programming regarding the continuation of the Solution. And remember that the Reapers still retain some semblance of free choice -- they aren't likely going to stop anytime soon. The likelyhood they will damage the Crucible is high - hence why time is of the essance. Plus there is every chance that Shepard may succumb to his/her injuries and die, leaving it all unfinished. So, yes, the Catalyst can be considered pressed for time in this scenerio.

That was a limitation in gameplay mehcanic. When they thought about it, they gave a reaction. Thus, that past version is retconned.

This is the end of the Solution. The Catalyst can't make any of these choices happen himself. If Shepard refuses, then the New Solution is left unfinished, and the Catalyst is left with the now revealed-to-be-flawed Old Solution. He must wait to see if the next cycle will be any better. Or the one after that. Or the one after that.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Some tidbits easily forgotten:

The Catalyst is/embodies "the collective intelligence of all Reapers" (ie. the Catalyst makes its own decisions... and the Reapers themselves are a decision it made. It's not 'bound' to anything).

The Crucible (according to the Catalyst) is merely a power source, the Citadel and it's relays are where the Crucible's energy can be put to use.

The Catalyst is an AI, so it needs Shepard (ie, someone with a body) to make one of the Crucible choices happen). Nothing else is stated to be a condition for the Catalyst's selection of Shepard.


So, in the end, you really do need the 'permission' of the Reaper king to bring an end to the conflict.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 01 août 2013 - 07:23 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Phoenix_Also_Rises wrote...


Yes, yes, yes, I do find it odd. Why should I believe anything this star-child says? We are discussing the possibility of its own destruction, after all. What sentient being - unless terminally depressed and suicidal - would even be willing to talk about ending its own life? Or, if you want to go the other way, giving up its own power? (i am not going to acknowledge the green-tinted mess I saw that one time I was hideously drunk and not in fully possession of all my capacities)

Oh, and the whole organics vs. synthetics thing you keep babbling about, little boy? About there being no alternatives? Well guess what, sunshine - I FIXED THAT. Look at the Quarians and the Geth. Look at   EVERYTHING I have done. The sheer amount of time I could actually do something with my life that I have wasted on solving the problems of quite literally everyone in this galaxy. I just want to grab the little bastard by the strings of his hoodie, shake him and shout: "Parameters change! Your theory is no longer valid! Why do you not re-evaluate?! Why should I believe a single word of what you are saying? Because you do not seem all that impartial and uninvested to me."

Frankly, it is not the fact that I do not get the pretty-pretty-happy-princess ending that angers me, as much as the fact that I cannot call the damned little brat on his BS.

Because, after all, it is not like Reapers ever lie. Or deceive. Or twist and corrupt anything they touch. Over the course of the games, and, more specifically, ME3 in particular, they have been portrayed as so sympathetic, even relatable at times, that no-one, absolutely no-one would have any qualms with their redemption and/or integration into galactic society. Because remember - the ending was set up years in advance, as well as sufficiently foreshadowed. 

Damn. I honestly have no idea where all this vitriol comes from. I apologize. I guess I am more bitter about the whole thing than I thought. The "ending" threads are not a good place for me to hang out at. I have a vacation to get ready for.

I should go.

ftw

[Mr. Gogeta34]

silverexile17s wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...


Again, in the original ending, shooting a hologram was not a problem.  You're making excuses for the Catalyst when the choice is likely to have been made after a few shots had been taken.  It's the Catalyst that throws a tantrum and calls the whole thing off.

So, Shepard's shooting at a hologram, but it's the Catalyst throwing the tantrum?

Nice one:D
That's the point that @Mr. Gogeta34 keeps ignoring - how is it the Catalyst's fault if Shepard starts shotting him? It's an action that makes it quite clear what Shepard wants and doesn't want.

Your point is all well and good except for one thing...

That hologram is not the Catalyst, it's merely a visual representation.


Secondly, yes.  One tantrum (Shepard) does not excuse the other (the Catalyst).  After dancing with the futility of shooting a holographic projection, Shepard still has a choice to make.  The Catalyst was more patient pre-EC and allowed it to happen pre-EC.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 01 août 2013 - 07:28 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

silverexile17s wrote...
1 - Because he's the one explaining the Solutions and their ramafacations to Shepard. He's providing the exposition needed to make the Choice, and Shepard will actually be the one making the Choice. His information, your actions. That's what "we" means. It's Shepard's way or the highway. Stop trying to place all the blame on the Catalyst.

2 - Nope. Some argue that the Reapers & Leviathans never did get mixed up, and that they followed their programming exactally - a view supported by the Leviathan's calm acceptance of the Catalyst's actions as "logical," and being still within the boundries of the directives they gave it. Something you should know if you payed attention.
Others say the Catalyst subverted it's programing intentionally or otherwise. Some others still believe that this is all just ID.

3 - Completely and utterly wrong. If you read the Codex, you would know that they discovered that all the Destroyers are the other races. Only one race is made into a Sovergein-Class Reaper. All the other "lesser races" are made into Destroyers. So, they do harvest every single race - None of them are "deemed unworthy" to become Reapers - it's just which class of Reaper they will become. They wipe out none besides the synthetics, whose information stores they still presverve.
Anyone that read the Codex entries about Reapers would know that.

1.  The Catalyst only deems the Crucible to be new possible solutions.  It does not and would not entertain any others.  It's the Catalyst choice to have you pick the Crucible's options (no matter what state the Crucible is in) or everyone dies.  That's the Catalyst's way or the highway.  I'll stop blaming the Catalyst when he becomes unworthy of it.

2.  You must have missed the fact that the creators of the Catalyst did not agree with what the Catalyst had chosen (of its own free will) as a solution.  Something you should know if you payed even more attention.

3.  Actually, the Catalyst states that Synthetics are also preserved.  Secondly, while they may try to harvest all races... they did not harvest all of them.  The Protheans for example... they were just wiped out with the exception of Harbinger's playthings (Collectors).  If the Reapers can't do anything with a race, they just die.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 01 août 2013 - 07:55 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Wolfva2 wrote...

EDI had free will because she was unshackled.  I assume the Geth do to, but the Geth are a conglomerate life form.  Harbinger and Sovereign?  No idea.  I define free will as the ability to do what you want to, to make your own decisions.  EDI shows this when she makes the concious decision to NOT be like the reapers, and to protect Joker.  You show this every time you write the same post over and over again no matter how many times people have explained how you're wrong.

Like the Catalyst did in creating Reapers out of its creators (despite the creator's disapproval).  That's free will at its best.

Sorry, the Catalyst has free will, the Reapers are 'his' solution... no one else's.  The Reapers are the Catalyst's idea, no one else's.  No one has proven this wrong... because facts are facts.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

silverexile17s wrote...

iakus wrote...

Silverexile17s wrote...

iakus wrote...

So if Shepard got injured in the beam run and EDI made it to the Citadel instead, could she have made the choice?

No, she could not. Shepard is the one that united the Galaxy against the Reapers, not EDI. Who, being a synthetic herself, the Catalyst sees as the bane of existance.

So the galaxy was saved by dumb luck

Gotcha.

Wrong. The galaxy was saved by Shepard. Plain and simple. It wasn't "luck." Luck only gets one so far. It took skill to get all the races together, and perserverance to make it to the Citadel. "Luck" had jack-all to do with anything.

Luck had a lot to do with this win...

After 3 games... countless lives lost... and the Reapers clearly winning...

...for the Reaper King (Catalyst) to then be so willing to just 'die' is the very definition of a lucky break, lol

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 01 août 2013 - 08:14 .

[adayaday]

Was defeting the reapers dumb luck?well...
By chance a blue print for a super weapon is discovered at the same moment the reapers arrive on earth.
By chance is is discovered by non other the Liara-"one of Shepard's chlosest friends".
By chance it is dicovered within the same solar system that Shepard was in at that time.
By chance the Reapers opened a Beam that allows a person to travel directly to the Catalyst(citadel).
By chance the only 3 people who made it to the Beam were our main protagonist,his mentor and the main antagonist.
By chance the only one who survive thier meeting is Shepard...YAY...
By chance Shepard collapse on a magical elevator that lead to the starbart chamber.
By chance the device that was never built,test and that no one knew what it does works.

I could go on but this is stupid enough as it is.

[CronoDragoon]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

1) It makes no sense

It makes sense to me. Sorry. At the very least, it makes more sense than the OEs. Since I just watched Evangelion 3.33 I feel like I have a pretty good frame of reference for things not making sense.

2) it wasn't in Mass Effect 3. And Casey Hudson certainly promised that the Reaper backstory would not be sold as DLC. Either they never meant to add anything about any "Leviathans", or Hudson was lying yet again. Ah well.

Do you have a link to Hudson saying that? If so I agree that's a lowblow move to sell Leviathan as DLC. But either way, I don't see the point in saying "it wasn't planned at the beginning of the series, so X." Many things aren't. So what? I'm not claiming that this was the Reaper backstory they intended all along, because that is demonstrably false (they hever HAD an ending they intended all along. They seriously had no clue). But whether something was planned and whether it makes sense are two different evaluations.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 01 août 2013 - 02:22 .

[Iakus]

silverexile17s wrote...

Wrong. The galaxy was saved by Shepard. Plain and simple. It wasn't "luck." Luck only gets one so far. It took skill to get all the races together, and perserverance to make it to the Citadel. "Luck" had jack-all to do with anything.

The only races all Shepards unite are the humans and turians, with some reluctant backing from the asari. 

And the "perseverence" to get to the Citadel had mor eto do with Harbinger's blast being a bit wide, then deciding to go on a coffee break.

Tell me, what if Shepard had reached TIM before Anderson, and he made Anderson shoot Shepard instead?

What if Shepard passed out somewhere other than where the Magic Space Elevator happened to be?

[Iakus]

silverexile17s wrote...
At the end of the cycle, where time is of the essance and the end in plain sight? Really? That's the best you can do?

The Catayst is in danger - of losing his chance for Shepard to create the new solution. The Reaper's "harvest" is compulsitory. If Shepard doesn't chose sometime today, then the cycle will be wiped out and he will have to wait for the next cycle for an oppertunity like this. Remember, the Reapers are still cumpulsitory-harvesting life outside over Earth. He cannot override their pre-programed directives to harvest and "preserve" without violating his own programming regarding the continuation of the Solution. And remember that the Reapers still retain some semblance of free choice -- they aren't likely going to stop anytime soon. The likelyhood they will damage the Crucible is high - hence why time is of the essance. Plus there is every chance that Shepard may succumb to his/her injuries and die, leaving it all unfinished. So, yes, the Catalyst can be considered pressed for time in this scenerio.

That was a limitation in gameplay mehcanic. When they thought about it, they gave a reaction. Thus, that past version is retconned.

This is the end of the Solution. The Catalyst can't make any of these choices happen himself. If Shepard refuses, then the New Solution is left unfinished, and the Catalyst is left with the now revealed-to-be-flawed Old Solution. He must wait to see if the next cycle will be any better. Or the one after that. Or the one after that.

At the end of the cycle, when time is of the essence, the Catalyst is going to shut down the Crucible and just keep on reaping because...Shepard got angry.



If the Catalyst is in danger of losing this grand opportunity to get an organic to do its bidding, it's got no one to blame but itself.  It controls the Reapers. Therefore, the Reapers reap because the Catalyst tell them to.  That's what control is

The Catalyst is in complete control of the situation.  Shepard can't hurt it.  It's directing the Reapers.  And at this point it knows its solution doesn't work

Yet if Shepard decides to shoot the hologram in a futile gesture, it still goes "SO BE IT!" and keeps right on Reaping. It doesn't say "Feel better? Now pick a color" it doesn't say "That won't solve anything"  "Heck it doesn't even say "You got a better idea?"

Nope, my way or a slaughter-filled highway. "Pick a color or a kill everyone in the galaxy"


The Catalyst says that it's an AI in the same way a human is an animal.  Well, EDI is capable of altering her base programming.  The geth have been constantly evolving for the past three hundred years.  And the Catalyst can't stop reaping, when it was never programmed to in the first place?  

That's right.  The Catalyst decided the cycles were the solution.  ANd when it proved not to work anymore, it's somehow cmpelled to keep going?

Yeah, really advanced tech there /sarcasm

[silverexile17s]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Some tidbits easily forgotten:

The Catalyst is/embodies "the collective intelligence of all Reapers" (ie. the Catalyst makes its own decisions... and the Reapers themselves are a decision it made. It's not 'bound' to anything).

The Crucible (according to the Catalyst) is merely a power source, the Citadel and it's relays are where the Crucible's energy can be put to use.

The Catalyst is an AI, so it needs Shepard (ie, someone with a body) to make one of the Crucible choices happen). Nothing else is stated to be a condition for the Catalyst's selection of Shepard.


So, in the end, you really do need the 'permission' of the Reaper king to bring an end to the conflict.

Their collective intelligence. Not their colletive minds. It;s like their subconcious. Not their overrulling dictatior. It tells them what their goal is, but not the exact means of how they do it. It says "harvest life to build more Reapers," but doesn't dictate the method of attack or order of harvest. Or the tactics. Or what to attack or not. That's all Harbinger and the others.
(Wrong. It's bound by it's programming to find a solution to organic/synthetic conflict. It's current solution failed, so it is bound by it;s core programming to find another one. Three options exist. Shepard beat the past solution, so it's logical that Shepard be the deciding factor in which Solution to impliment. It is explisitly bound to make whatever choice you do.)

No. It's interfacing with the Citadel made the stations manipulation of Dark Energy more potent. It is the power source that can channel the entire collective output of the Mass Relay network as a dark energy pulse that can be transmitted through the relays across the entire galaxy. One can't function without the other. The Citadel alone can't make this work. It's not pre-programed into the Citadel, or the Crucible. Rather, it's a combination of the two technologies merging. I don't think anyone had a sure idea of what would happen besides a destructive dark energy wave, or that using it in other ways (DNA dispersial catalyst for Synthesis, or signal command override for Control) was possible until the two actually met and the Catalyst could actually see the results of the melding himself.

Well, that's not entirely true. It has to be someone that got this far themselves. Someone that is the examplar of the organics. I mean, if you actually think that, you need to compare the high EMS with the low EMS -- the Catalyst displays surprise and confussion at Shepard being there in low EMS, while in high EMS, the Catalyst is impressed and praises Shepard for getting this far. This alone shows that Shepard's actions factor heavily into it's considerations. It need's Shepard and Shepard alone -- because Shepard united the galaxy and lead them to this point - the point no other organics ever reached before.

[silverexile17s]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...


Again, in the original ending, shooting a hologram was not a problem.  You're making excuses for the Catalyst when the choice is likely to have been made after a few shots had been taken.  It's the Catalyst that throws a tantrum and calls the whole thing off.

So, Shepard's shooting at a hologram, but it's the Catalyst throwing the tantrum?

Nice one:D
That's the point that @Mr. Gogeta34 keeps ignoring - how is it the Catalyst's fault if Shepard starts shotting him? It's an action that makes it quite clear what Shepard wants and doesn't want.

Your point is all well and good except for one thing...

That hologram is not the Catalyst, it's merely a visual representation.


Secondly, yes.  One tantrum (Shepard) does not excuse the other (the Catalyst).  After dancing with the futility of shooting a holographic projection, Shepard still has a choice to make.  The Catalyst was more patient pre-EC and allowed it to happen pre-EC.

No different then Harbinger or Sovergien. And the Citadel is the Catalyst's Home. His housing for his A.I. core. You basically are shotting him:pinched:.  So, that makes your point completely redundant:whistle:.

One tantrum (Shepard) basically tells the Catalyst that you aren't going to listen or cooperate. It's no different then how the adult would disiplne a child (not the best comparison, I know, but the only one I can think of off-hand). Otherwise, you wouldn't have done it in the first place. And again, that past event was retconned. Please try to prove your point using actual cannon, would you?

Modifié par silverexile17s, 02 août 2013 - 01:51 .

[silverexile17s]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
1 - Because he's the one explaining the Solutions and their ramafacations to Shepard. He's providing the exposition needed to make the Choice, and Shepard will actually be the one making the Choice. His information, your actions. That's what "we" means. It's Shepard's way or the highway. Stop trying to place all the blame on the Catalyst.

2 - Nope. Some argue that the Reapers & Leviathans never did get mixed up, and that they followed their programming exactally - a view supported by the Leviathan's calm acceptance of the Catalyst's actions as "logical," and being still within the boundries of the directives they gave it. Something you should know if you payed attention.
Others say the Catalyst subverted it's programing intentionally or otherwise. Some others still believe that this is all just ID.

3 - Completely and utterly wrong. If you read the Codex, you would know that they discovered that all the Destroyers are the other races. Only one race is made into a Sovergein-Class Reaper. All the other "lesser races" are made into Destroyers. So, they do harvest every single race - None of them are "deemed unworthy" to become Reapers - it's just which class of Reaper they will become. They wipe out none besides the synthetics, whose information stores they still presverve.
Anyone that read the Codex entries about Reapers would know that.

1.  The Catalyst only deems the Crucible to be new possible solutions.  It does not and would not entertain any others.  It's the Catalyst choice to have you pick the Crucible's options (no matter what state the Crucible is in) or everyone dies.  That's the Catalyst's way or the highway.  I'll stop blaming the Catalyst when he becomes unworthy of it.

2.  You must have missed the fact that the creators of the Catalyst did not agree with what the Catalyst had chosen (of its own free will) as a solution.  Something you should know if you payed even more attention.

3.  Actually, the Catalyst states that Synthetics are also preserved.  Secondly, while they may try to harvest all races... they did not harvest all of them.  The Protheans for example... they were just wiped out with the exception of Harbinger's playthings (Collectors).  If the Reapers can't do anything with a race, they just die.

1 - And Shepard as the one that must decide which to impliment. After all, who do you think it is that's running the link between the Crucible and Citadel? It's the Catalyst. He displays his part in the link-up when he shuts down the beam that links the Crucible and Citadel together after Shepard makes it clear he/she won't choose. The Catalyst literally does entertain all three choices, because his management of the link is what makes them possible after Shepard makes the choice. He can't make the choice of what option. He can only carry it out after YOU choose it. If he was really in control of this all, he wold not make a system that needed to be operated by others, or create more then one ideal solution.
So, if what you claim is true, how do you explain away the Catalyst accepting and carrying out any and every one of the three choices? Or how he can only react to whatever choice you make after it's done by obediantly carring it out?:pinched: Because otherwise, this means the Catalyst was never "worthy" of your accusations, because none of them were true.

2 - "There was no mistake. It still carries out it's purpose." - Direct quote from the Leviathans. Something you should know if you had ears or eyes, or even played the DLC to begin with:pinched:. They aren't mad with it. They don't begrudge it. If anything, the only thing they are upset about is that it didn't give them a heads-up.  If you had payed attention, you would know that.

3 - Wrong. Their information stores are preserved, but their minds are not. Legion says in ME2 that when the geth collective interfaced with Sovergein during it's first contact with them, all the minds inside were organic. All of them.
And again wrong. Because that was not by choice. According to EDI's speculation, the protheans unique genetic structure (and likely their sensory-empathic abilaty) made them unable to be converted into a Reaper. So instead of killing (because, again, they don't wipe out any life they harvest), they made them "immortal" in the form of the Collectors. So, since the Reapers didn't wipe out the protheans, but instead made them "immortal," that still puts you at nill for all your points.

[silverexile17s]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

iakus wrote...

Silverexile17s wrote...

iakus wrote...

So if Shepard got injured in the beam run and EDI made it to the Citadel instead, could she have made the choice?

No, she could not. Shepard is the one that united the Galaxy against the Reapers, not EDI. Who, being a synthetic herself, the Catalyst sees as the bane of existance.

So the galaxy was saved by dumb luck

Gotcha.

Wrong. The galaxy was saved by Shepard. Plain and simple. It wasn't "luck." Luck only gets one so far. It took skill to get all the races together, and perserverance to make it to the Citadel. "Luck" had jack-all to do with anything.

Luck had a lot to do with this win...

After 3 games... countless lives lost... and the Reapers clearly winning...

...for the Reaper King (Catalyst) to then be so willing to just 'die' is the very definition of a lucky break, lol

Wrong.
It wasn't "luck" that enabled Shepard to track down Saren, beat him, and cripple Sovergein. That was skill.
It wasn't "luck" that enabled Shepard to beat the Collectors and take out their base. It was skill.
It wasn't "luck" that got Shepard to unite the galaxy and lead them against the Reapers. It was skill.
Every single one of Shepard's acomplishments have been due to skill and effort. Luck had absolutly nothing to do with it.
And once again, you ignore the fact that he does not rule the Reapers. He is their embodied avatar. Not their "master controler." After all, since he cannot micromanage their actions, he's not a "king." Just a director. He tells them what their goals are, but not the exact ways to acpmplish that. He wants to see the Solution finsihed. That's all he cares about - he doesn't, nor ever did care about dying if it gets the Solution finished.