540 réponses à ce sujet

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...

If Destroy is a "solution" in it's mind, that's kind of interesting in itself. The Catalyst says the peace will not last. If the peace will not last, then how is it a solution? It's a solution to me, but not so much for the Catalyst.

I think its a less about being a solution (to the Catalyst) and more about the Crucible proving that organics are capable of determining their own future. Even with the Catalyst trying to Control everything like an experiment, organics found a way. The Crucible designs slipped through the cracks. They got it built and got it docked. "Symbolism"


This is precisely the type of thing that Bioware wanted us to speculate about.

[Renmiri1]

Mcfly616 wrote...

This is precisely the type of thing that Bioware wanted us to speculate about.

I admire your tenacity and your ability to believe you are connected with Bioware telepathically and know precisely what they wanted.

I was never a fan of IT but seeing indocrination first hand like that is hard to deny it might exist , at least in the self indocrinated variety.

I would give up trying to indocrinate others, that battle has been lost long ago, but meh, it's your life, your time.. And mine has been wasted enough in this dead end trilogy.

Good luck to you and the other keyboard warriors trying to make a purse out of a sow's ear. Don't forget to shout Symbolism every few posts, it seems to help you do.. whatever it is you are doing  a year and a half after the ME3 disaster 

Take care 

[Elite Midget]

Bioware couldn't come up with an ending where you beat the Reapers so instead you become their slaves and the next generation Reapers.

[AlanC9]

Elite Midget wrote...

Bioware couldn't come up with an ending where you beat the Reapers so instead you become their slaves and the next generation Reapers.

Hey, nobody ever has to pick Refuse. If someone wants to lose, that's his business.

[Elite Midget]

AlanC9 wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Bioware couldn't come up with an ending where you beat the Reapers so instead you become their slaves and the next generation Reapers.

Hey, nobody ever has to pick Refuse. If someone wants to lose, that's his business.

Refuse is the only ending where you win. The others you're merely a Reaper Slave and bring about a worse set of Reapers for the next generation as they make use of Shepard foolishly giving them all the knowledge and experience they need to make better Reapers.

[phillip100]

Elite Midget wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Bioware couldn't come up with an ending where you beat the Reapers so instead you become their slaves and the next generation Reapers.

Hey, nobody ever has to pick Refuse. If someone wants to lose, that's his business.

Refuse is the only ending where you win. The others you're merely a Reaper Slave and bring about a worse set of Reapers for the next generation as they make use of Shepard foolishly giving them all the knowledge and experience they need to make better Reapers.

You win the game by not using the Cruible and letting the Reapers win?

Modifié par phillip100, 02 septembre 2013 - 03:26 .

[Br3admax]

Don't even try. It's a losing battle.

[Elite Midget]

phillip100 wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Bioware couldn't come up with an ending where you beat the Reapers so instead you become their slaves and the next generation Reapers.

Hey, nobody ever has to pick Refuse. If someone wants to lose, that's his business.

Refuse is the only ending where you win. The others you're merely a Reaper Slave and bring about a worse set of Reapers for the next generation as they make use of Shepard foolishly giving them all the knowledge and experience they need to make better Reapers.

You win the game by not using the Cruible and letting the Reapers win?

You win by perserving your race and not becoming a Reaper puppet. No matter what Bioware has the Reapers coming out in the end, even in Destroy. At least this way you go down fighting and not bending over.

[Renmiri1]

phillip100 wrote...

You win the game by not using the Cruible and letting the Reapers win?

Sometimes the only way to win is not to play

[shepskisaac]

Renmiri1 wrote...

phillip100 wrote...

You win the game by not using the Cruible and letting the Reapers win?

Sometimes the only way to win is not to play

Getting everyone killed which is the opposite of what you were suppoused to do ain't exactly what I would call a win lol

[Renmiri1]

Exactly.

Hence I dropped my game and never finished

[Elite Midget]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Exactly.

Hence I dropped my game and never finished

You are stronger than most. I still feel bad for those that thought they ever had a chance only to learn it was either play by the Reapers rules or die.

[phillip100]

Br3ad wrote...

Don't even try. It's a losing battle.

Good idea. I'll just go back to the Black Mesa Forums. I prefer posting at that forum over Bioware's anyway. 

[NeonFlux117]

I don't know how many people played Spec Ops the Line- but at some point. The game constantly reminds the players that it's a game. And also, at some point. the title character- who the player is in this fictional game setting, is asked 'Why did you keep going. Why didn't you just turn back"?

and as someone stated the ONLY way to 'loose' the 'game' in ME3 is not to "play" the crucible and it's rules.

It's meta at it's finest, in that BioWare constantly reminds the player that this is a fictional universe and 'just a game of fiction'.

And according to BioWare, for their Mass Effect series of games- "YOU (the player) are Shepard"

And BioWare constantly reminds the player that this is a work of fiction for the player.

Refuse is illuminated in this, that it's a speech in which Shepard gives the ultimate speech of free will- the main hook of Mass Effect, free will and player agency. And yet, it's the only way to 'loose' the game.

Freedom is a prism. The paths are open. Yet not. It's linear. Not open. It's decided. Not free will. And if you don't make a 'choice' you loose. But the choice and consequence are told to you before hand by this 'catalyst'- an agent of change, that remains unaffected. But yet, in all the 'crucible' ending choices. The 'catalyst' does change. Control-Shepard becomes the catalyst. Synthesis- catalyst is no longer in existence because evolution has reached it's pinnacle. Destroy, the reapers and catalyst are destroyed. Things are opposite of what they should be.

Almost as if, it was meant to be that way all along.

TIM is paragon. Anderson is Renegade.

And the community base got upset because of 'player agency' and the hook of Mass Effect became invalid at the end of the Series.

But what if, it's not about player agency at all, or player choice directing the narrative.

What if it's a test. What if it's a crucible- a severe test for Shepard. The illusion of choice.

After all "You ARE Shepard". And Mass Effect is just a game. So don't get to upset. Remember that "you are Shepard". And only your decisions will be remembered.

Did I mention it's just a game, lol. Cheer up.

[Nashtalia]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

I don't know how many people played Spec Ops the Line- but at some point. The game constantly reminds the players that it's a game. And also, at some point. the title character- who the player is in this fictional game setting, is asked 'Why did you keep going. Why didn't you just turn back"?

and as someone stated the ONLY way to 'loose' the 'game' in ME3 is not to "play" the crucible and it's rules.

It's meta at it's finest, in that BioWare constantly reminds the player that this is a fictional universe and 'just a game of fiction'.

And according to BioWare, for their Mass Effect series of games- "YOU (the player) are Shepard"

And BioWare constantly reminds the player that this is a work of fiction for the player.

Refuse is illuminated in this, that it's a speech in which Shepard gives the ultimate speech of free will- the main hook of Mass Effect, free will and player agency. And yet, it's the only way to 'loose' the game.

Freedom is a prism. The paths are open. Yet not. It's linear. Not open. It's decided. Not free will. And if you don't make a 'choice' you loose. But the choice and consequence are told to you before hand by this 'catalyst'- an agent of change, that remains unaffected. But yet, in all the 'crucible' ending choices. The 'catalyst' does change. Control-Shepard becomes the catalyst. Synthesis- catalyst is no longer in existence because evolution has reached it's pinnacle. Destroy, the reapers and catalyst are destroyed. Things are opposite of what they should be.

Almost as if, it was meant to be that way all along.

TIM is paragon. Anderson is Renegade.

And the community base got upset because of 'player agency' and the hook of Mass Effect became invalid at the end of the Series.

But what if, it's not about player agency at all, or player choice directing the narrative.

What if it's a test. What if it's a crucible- a severe test for Shepard. The illusion of choice.

After all "You ARE Shepard". And Mass Effect is just a game. So don't get to upset. Remember that "you are Shepard". And only your decisions will be remembered.

Did I mention it's just a game, lol. Cheer up.

negetive on that one, a game? nope...not to me. it is my life, my social life at that

*i am completely serious

Modifié par Nashtalia, 02 septembre 2013 - 03:02 .

[phillip100]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Did I mention it's just a game, lol.

"About war!"

[Wolfva2]

Gods. People are still talking about the choices as if, just because the AI tells you what they are then they MUST be Reaper plans!

Ok. Here I go again. The crucible mates with the Citadel; it is going to fire a beam of energy. That is what it is designed to do. It fires a beam of energy that will do....something. So, they connect and nothing happens. Why? Because before you can fire a gun...YOU HAVE TO PRESS THE FRIGGIN TRIGGER! In this case, the gun has 3 triggers. 1 destroys the reapers, 1 combines you with the reapers, 1 lets you control the reapers. Well, ole Shep doesn't know that. He didn't read the Operators Manual. And BAM! Wadayaknow! The operator manual is activated! It's the AI. It walks out and tells Shep what the triggers do. Why? Because it's a COMPUTER PROGRAM. It follows it's programming. (yeah, it had some totally SUCKY programming; get over it. It's just a game).

What else COULD the crucible do? Absolutely nothing. It's either going to destroy the reapers, combine you with them, or let you control them. Why? Because that is what it was designed to do by the writers. Could they have had it do something else? Sure. It could have opened a worm hole and Captain Picard would warp in with the Federation fleet behind him to take out the Reaper menace. BW probably would have been sued, though it coulda been cool. Or maybe opened a hole to another galaxy where all the organics could flee to safety. We could discuss this for days and not exhaust the possibilities of what COULD have happened. None of that matters; what matters is what they did. And let's face a fact, no matter what they did, someone would be pissed off and moaning about it here on the forums.


You pull a gun on a man; he says to you, "If you pull that trigger, you'll kill me.  But wait!  You have another option; you can holster the weapon and walk away.  OR...you can join up with me."  I swear some of ya'll would scream in anger, "AIEE!  Now I can't shoot you because you'd be CONTROLLLLLLLLLLLLINGGGGGG MEEEEE!  I don't have any choices!!!!"  Just because an enemy deliniates your choices for you doesn't make them bad choices. 

Modifié par Wolfva2, 02 septembre 2013 - 03:19 .

[NeonFlux117]

phillip100 wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Did I mention it's just a game, lol.

"About war!"

There is no war. There is only the harvest. 

[Wolfva2]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

phillip100 wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Did I mention it's just a game, lol.

"About war!"

There is no war. There is only the harvest. 

Speaking of....it's almost the season for Sam Addams Harvest Pumpkin Ale!  Man, I wish I knew how to make vids...I'd make a commercial for it with Soveriegn as the spokesman....<LOL>.

[phillip100]

Wolfva2 wrote...

-snip-

As Br3ad said to me, don't bother.

[NeonFlux117]

Wolfva2 wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

phillip100 wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Did I mention it's just a game, lol.

"About war!"

There is no war. There is only the harvest. 

Speaking of....it's almost the season for Sam Addams Harvest Pumpkin Ale!  Man, I wish I knew how to make vids...I'd make a commercial for it with Soveriegn as the spokesman....<LOL>.

For some reason I find Sovereign to be a congnac or maybe scotch drinker. He kind of comes of that way. A bit posh and refined. 

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Mcfly616 wrote...

guess you missed that part when Shepard says that he'll find another way to destroy the Reapers, and the Catalyst literally tells him its not possible. The united forces of the galaxy are overwhelmingly outnumbered and all but about to be wiped out at that point. Thanix canons alone would not have beat the Reapers.


Basically you're saying its a plot hole because the Catalyst should just give up and allow Shepard to Destroy it and the Reapers by just sitting still and waiting to be executed? Hardly. The Catalyst still has an obligation to find the best solution for the galaxy. If Shepard doesn't want to choose one, the Catalyst has no choice but to continue the harvest until it finds another way.

I didn't miss that part, but the Destroy option shuts down all of the Reapers (couldn't the Catalyst do this?)/put them back in a state of proverbial slumber like they're in dark space?) and effectively destroy them.

The Catalyst 'said' it was not possible, but it was possible.  The Catalyst controls the Reapers (the catalyst literally says that he does).  If they're submitting to their own destruction, why should it matter how?

Hence the plot hole (What exactly is the Catalyst doing? It's unclear and contradictory yet important to the plot).

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 02 septembre 2013 - 09:59 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Nashtalia wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

I don't know how many people played Spec Ops the Line- but at some point. The game constantly reminds the players that it's a game. And also, at some point. the title character- who the player is in this fictional game setting, is asked 'Why did you keep going. Why didn't you just turn back"?

and as someone stated the ONLY way to 'loose' the 'game' in ME3 is not to "play" the crucible and it's rules.

It's meta at it's finest, in that BioWare constantly reminds the player that this is a fictional universe and 'just a game of fiction'.

And according to BioWare, for their Mass Effect series of games- "YOU (the player) are Shepard"

And BioWare constantly reminds the player that this is a work of fiction for the player.

Refuse is illuminated in this, that it's a speech in which Shepard gives the ultimate speech of free will- the main hook of Mass Effect, free will and player agency. And yet, it's the only way to 'loose' the game.

Freedom is a prism. The paths are open. Yet not. It's linear. Not open. It's decided. Not free will. And if you don't make a 'choice' you loose. But the choice and consequence are told to you before hand by this 'catalyst'- an agent of change, that remains unaffected. But yet, in all the 'crucible' ending choices. The 'catalyst' does change. Control-Shepard becomes the catalyst. Synthesis- catalyst is no longer in existence because evolution has reached it's pinnacle. Destroy, the reapers and catalyst are destroyed. Things are opposite of what they should be.

Almost as if, it was meant to be that way all along.

TIM is paragon. Anderson is Renegade.

And the community base got upset because of 'player agency' and the hook of Mass Effect became invalid at the end of the Series.

But what if, it's not about player agency at all, or player choice directing the narrative.

What if it's a test. What if it's a crucible- a severe test for Shepard. The illusion of choice.

After all "You ARE Shepard". And Mass Effect is just a game. So don't get to upset. Remember that "you are Shepard". And only your decisions will be remembered.

Did I mention it's just a game, lol. Cheer up.

negetive on that one, a game? nope...not to me. it is my life, my social life at that

*i am completely serious

You both should multi-task more

[dorktainian]

there is some pretty good 4th wall breaking stuff going on - more so the closer you get to the ending. pay attention to characters looking straight at the screen - and thus at you. Almost urging you to think beyond it being a game.

It's a Test imo.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

phillip100 wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

-snip-

As Br3ad said to me, don't bother.

Agreed, because neither of you are on topic. 

Everyone already knows what the Crucible does and what the Crucible's limits are.  That's not the point of this thread.