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[silverexile17s]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

But all organic life decays and ages. They figured that making them "immortal" saves time, effort, and is overall more efficant and for the better. It's only a solution that can be achieved through outright lack of empathy and emotion.

 The entire crux of the Catalyst's (and Leviathans') argument rests on this idea of our extinction at the hands of Synthetics. Without the Reapers, Synthetics would kill all organics.

An emotional response would imply that I am against the Catalyst's interpretation based on some heartfelt message. It's not about what's ethical. It's about what works within the confines of the Catalyst's interpretation. The Reapers could farm us in a similar vein to the Matrix's machines. Letting us reach/discover the Citadel and acquire (even rudimentary) Reaper technology is not a good idea, if their ultimate plan is to harvest us. Recognizing that the Reapers can be killed and that organics, on occasion, have successfully killed Reapers makes me headscratch at the idea that the Reapers are just letting us have a party until they decide it's time to begin the harvest.

Just look at what the Reapers have to deal with on Earth in terms of collecting the humans. It's wasted time, effort, and resources that they have to hunt down these minor rebellious factions.

No one wants to live like that forever - they would want to come out of the "Matrix" eventually. Why waste resources preserving bodies to return to, when you can just simply take everything and meld it all together?
Also, take a good look at the Reapers - do they seem to be the type to ever expect death? They probably think that the numbers of Reaper deaths will decrease from cycle as their collective knowledge grows.
The Reapers have never let us discover more then they want us to know. And every race having similar technology (mass effect based) makes it easier to know what to expect every cycle, as well as streamline the process so that life recovers from each cycle faster then before.

[silverexile17s]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
Nope. The Catalyst's own programming prevents it from self-modifying like that. It lacks the capability for the necessary manual input. It no longer knows which option is best. It knows which one it beleievs is best going off it's own logic, but as Shepard has shown it, logic can be overcome by willpower and drive. Shepard has viewpoints that the Catalyst will never have, and bested his Solution with those viewpoints. The Catalyst therefore submits to Shepard's judgement.

The Catalyst said that the Crucible offered "new... possibilities..." not obligations.  And by no way, shape, or form does the Catalyst submit to Shepard's 'judgement.'  Shoot at it or reject the choices it presents, and it doesn't care what Shepard's judgement is.  The Catalyst's actions suggest a whim/impulse at best.

New possibilities to Shepard. Not the Catalyst, since he isn't the one that can make them happen. To the Catalyst, they are obligations. To Shepard, they are possibilities. The Catalyst is bound to fulfil the end of the Cycles and the Solution. Shepard is the one that can choose which end the Solution culminates in.

And that's completely wrong - By every shape and form, the Catalyst completely submits to Shepard's will. Shepard bested the Solution. Beat a system that worked for millions of years. Proved that the cycles were becoming gradually more inneffective if the races were getting this far. There has never been another chance like this. The Catalyst now knows his solution is flawed. If it wasn't, Shepard wouldn't be standing here at all. He no longer has any desire to protect what is now a flawed solution. Shepard can rectify this by selecting a new one.
He explisitly DOES care about Shepard's judgement - that's the entire reason he get's angry if Shepard refuses. Shepard denied the Catalyst the new Solution - he must wait until someone else does it, which could be several cycles later for all he knows.
They are nothing like a whim.

[Wolfva2]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

csm4267 wrote...

... you need the 'permission' of the Reaper leader to do it?

Permission? Heh. This is an RPG. Shepard is a character. You control Shepard. What he does, what choices he makes. You do it all. No one forces you to make any choices. You are the one who chose to destroy the Reapers.

From Bioshock:

A man chooses, a slave obeys. 

You use "Force" in an interesting way.  Does a robber "force" you to give him your money when holding you at gunpoint?

//going a little dark here (but it's to make a point)... warning

If a terrorist captures you and forces you to pick which family member dies (or you all die)... are you being forced to condemn at least one of you to death?

Where do you draw the line for what's "your" choice and what's their choice?

I'll take this one; it's YOUR choice.  Here's a true life example.  Al Qaeda had captured several truckers in Iraq a few years ago.  They brought them to the desert, and made them dig holes.  They then told the men to kneel, and prepared to saw off their heads with dull knives.  This, of course, was being video taped.  Well, what choice did they have?  Guns were aimed at them after all.  One Italian man, however, picked another choice.  Even though his arms were bound behind him he shouted, "I will show you how a MAN dies!" and charged his captors.  Panicking, the al Qaeda thugs opened fire on him, tearing half of his head off.  Ironically, they would refuse to show the tape because of it's being 'to gruesome'...ironic because this was going to be one of the many beheading videoas that they were disseminating throughout the world. 

That Italian man was given a choice.  To kneel and be the star of a beheading video, or get shot.  He picked another option not given him...he attacked.  And died.  But he died a MAN, and he defeated his killers by not giving them what they wanted.  And scaring the be-Allah ought them.

No one can force you to do anything.  The first rule of power is the ONLY power you will ever have over anyone else is that which is freely ceeded to you.  A subordinate at work does what you say not because you force him to, but because he doesn't want to face the negative consequences of refusal.  In your first example, you aren't being forced to give the robber money, you do so to (hopefully!) escape the consequences of non-compliance.  In your 2nd, you're not being forced to kill a family member; they're already dead after all.  If anything, you're chosing which ones live.  And, of course, you may have other options.  Like, charging at the Terrorists screaming, "I'll show you how a MAN dies!" and attempting to club them with the chair you're tied to.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

silverexile17s wrote...
New possibilities to Shepard. Not the Catalyst, since he isn't the one that can make them happen. To the Catalyst, they are obligations. To Shepard, they are possibilities. The Catalyst is bound to fulfil the end of the Cycles and the Solution. Shepard is the one that can choose which end the Solution culminates in.

No I'd say they're definitely new possibilities for the Catalyst... as he can discard them at the drop of a hat.  They're merely possibilities for the Catalyst, whereas Shepard doesn't have a choice (if he wants the galaxy to survive the Reapers).  He either picks from those choices or loses everything, there is no in-between.

[AlanC9]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...


No I'd say they're definitely new possibilities for the Catalyst... as he can discard them at the drop of a hat.  They're merely possibilities for the Catalyst, whereas Shepard doesn't have a choice (if he wants the galaxy to survive the Reapers).  He either picks from those choices or loses everything, there is no in-between.

If he can discard choices at will, why is he keeping the bad ones?

[Mr. Gogeta34]

AlanC9 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...


No I'd say they're definitely new possibilities for the Catalyst... as he can discard them at the drop of a hat.  They're merely possibilities for the Catalyst, whereas Shepard doesn't have a choice (if he wants the galaxy to survive the Reapers).  He either picks from those choices or loses everything, there is no in-between.

If he can discard choices at will, why is he keeping the bad ones?

Shoot the hologram of the Catalyst and see if he keeps them.

Heck, take too long to make a choice and see what the Catalyst does.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 30 juillet 2013 - 07:04 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

silverexile17s wrote...
He explisitly DOES care about Shepard's judgement - that's the entire reason he get's angry if Shepard refuses. Shepard denied the Catalyst the new Solution - he must wait until someone else does it, which could be several cycles later for all he knows.
They are nothing like a whim.

Shepard was merely "the first organic" to make it there... you make it sound like Shepard was the only organic in the galaxy.  Why would the Catalyst have to wait until another cycle when one of the billions  of other organic lives could have made this decision as well?

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 30 juillet 2013 - 07:10 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

So apparently the Prothean scientists blocking out the Keepers didn't do anything to help us. This cycle wasn't different. It's just because Shepard is standing there that the Catalyst's solution won't work anymore.

Damn right it won't work anymore, because you're going to fire that thing and kill him and his toys unless he does some fast thinking and talks you into something else. Gee, how much logic did that take? Really deep thought. Now he's got to figure out a way to keep you talking while the keepers sabotage the destroy part.

Reapers have lied.... Sovereign "We have no beginning, and we have no end. We are infinite." Now this either means that the reapers just exist in a story book that the old man is telling that kid in the stargazer scene or Sovereign is lying. I would have liked to have had a little more dialogue with Sovereign.

"You are not Saren."
"No s*** Sherlock."
".......
"Yadda yadda yadda... Yeah, you're big. You're bad. You wanna kill us. We get it. You're also full of s***. Machines just don't spontaneously appear, so who or what made you?"
"It's not something you can comprehend. This conversation is over."


And it doesn't get angry if Shepard refuses. It just reveals its true nature. You were being trolled.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 30 juillet 2013 - 07:17 .

[AlanC9]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

If he can discard choices at will, why is he keeping the bad ones?

Shoot the hologram of the Catalyst and see if he keeps them.

Heck, take too long to make a choice and see what the Catalyst does.

 Adding smiley faces is obnoxious when you're ducking a question.

Again, if the Catalyst can control the choices, why offer Shepard any choices the Catalyst doesn't like? If he prefers Snythesis, why offer Destroy and Control?

Modifié par AlanC9, 30 juillet 2013 - 07:32 .

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

So apparently the Prothean scientists blocking out the Keepers didn't do anything to help us. This cycle wasn't different. It's just because Shepard is standing there that the Catalyst's solution won't work anymore.

Damn right it won't work anymore, because you're going to fire that thing and kill him and his toys unless he does some fast thinking and talks you into something else. Gee, how much logic did that take? Really deep thought. Now he's got to figure out a way to keep you talking while the keepers sabotage the destroy part.
.

Nice try, but why keep Shepard talking? Whybtell him he has to wake up? Why...

Oh, right.This is one of your joke posts, isn't it?

[silverexile17s]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
New possibilities to Shepard. Not the Catalyst, since he isn't the one that can make them happen. To the Catalyst, they are obligations. To Shepard, they are possibilities. The Catalyst is bound to fulfil the end of the Cycles and the Solution. Shepard is the one that can choose which end the Solution culminates in.

No I'd say they're definitely new possibilities for the Catalyst... as he can discard them at the drop of a hat.  They're merely possibilities for the Catalyst, whereas Shepard doesn't have a choice (if he wants the galaxy to survive the Reapers).  He either picks from those choices or loses everything, there is no in-between.

Wrong. He does not possess the abliaty to do that. He is a shackled A.I. Incapable of self-modification. His programming binds him to create a solution to conflict. If the current one is flawed, then he is forced into finding/creating a new one. However, in finding the correct one out of the three avalible, his judgement is no longer the defining factor because his own solution failed in the end. Therefor, it falls to the one that bested the Solution - Shepard - to make the choice. Whatever Solution is picked, his programming will compel him to carry out. So, No. There are no possibilities open to the Catalyst. He is incapable of "casting them aside" because that would violate his core programming, which he cannot do. Shepard is the one with the choice - the Catalyst is not. Either he get's his new solution, or he is forced to carry on with a flawed solution, which would ALSO violate his programming directives and cause conflict. The Catalyst is the one that's gridlocked here. If Shepard refuses, he loses his chance to impliment the new solution. And he is completely incapable of picking one of the three options because said manual interface is beyond his capability - thus, whichever choice is manually selected, he is programed to impliment. No arguements.

[silverexile17s]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
He explisitly DOES care about Shepard's judgement - that's the entire reason he get's angry if Shepard refuses. Shepard denied the Catalyst the new Solution - he must wait until someone else does it, which could be several cycles later for all he knows.
They are nothing like a whim.

Shepard was merely "the first organic" to make it there... you make it sound like Shepard was the only organic in the galaxy.  Why would the Catalyst have to wait until another cycle when one of the billions  of other organic lives could have made this decision as well?

And thus, proves his solution is flawed. If it wasn't, then no organic would ever have gotten that far. That any organic did is proof that the Solution is failing.
Name me one other organic that made it that far, or would have made it that far. Do you see any other organics there? Shepard was the only one that made it. Now he has to wait until it happens again. It took a billion years for it to happen once. The chance it would happen again anytime soon are unlikely - going from a mathmatical, logical perspective.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 30 juillet 2013 - 07:38 .

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

So apparently the Prothean scientists blocking out the Keepers didn't do anything to help us. This cycle wasn't different. It's just because Shepard is standing there that the Catalyst's solution won't work anymore.

Damn right it won't work anymore, because you're going to fire that thing and kill him and his toys unless he does some fast thinking and talks you into something else. Gee, how much logic did that take? Really deep thought. Now he's got to figure out a way to keep you talking while the keepers sabotage the destroy part.

Reapers have lied.... Sovereign "We have no beginning, and we have no end. We are infinite." Now this either means that the reapers just exist in a story book that the old man is telling that kid in the stargazer scene or Sovereign is lying. I would have liked to have had a little more dialogue with Sovereign.

"You are not Saren."
"No s*** Sherlock."
".......
"Yadda yadda yadda... Yeah, you're big. You're bad. You wanna kill us. We get it. You're also full of s***. Machines just don't spontaneously appear, so who or what made you?"
"It's not something you can comprehend. This conversation is over."


And it doesn't get angry if Shepard refuses. It just reveals its true nature. You were being trolled.

Well, look what Shepard did. Shepard made use of everything the protheans left the galaxy and united the galaxy, and stood against the Reapers united. Shepard docked the Crucible and broke straight through the core of the Reaper fleet to do it. All that factors into the Catalyst's evaluation of Shepard.

Impossible - his core directives prevent him destroying the tool that can create a new solution to replace the now-defunct one. Replacing the flawed solution is his primary goal. Doing anything to jeprodize that, like sabotage the Crucible, would violate his core programing.

The Reapers are just proxies - who's to say they are even aware of when their beginning was? To them, they likely don't have any memory of a beginning. Just... coming online and existing one day. Sovergien isn't lying in that scene - it likely isn't even aware of having a beginning. None of the Reapers likely have the awareness of self necessary to contemplate a "beginning." Despite each being a "nation-mind," they still have even less actuall free will then a Shackled A.I. Even the pre-Morning War geth had a better sense of identity then them.

It's more likely that the Reapers themselves simply don't ask. I get the feeling they don't question themselves all that much - they never had a reason to care about what their beginnings were or who made them. All that matters is their mission to "preserve" life. Everything else is irrelivent to them.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 30 juillet 2013 - 07:48 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

silverexile17s wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
New possibilities to Shepard. Not the Catalyst, since he isn't the one that can make them happen. To the Catalyst, they are obligations. To Shepard, they are possibilities. The Catalyst is bound to fulfil the end of the Cycles and the Solution. Shepard is the one that can choose which end the Solution culminates in.

No I'd say they're definitely new possibilities for the Catalyst... as he can discard them at the drop of a hat.  They're merely possibilities for the Catalyst, whereas Shepard doesn't have a choice (if he wants the galaxy to survive the Reapers).  He either picks from those choices or loses everything, there is no in-between.

Wrong. He does not possess the abliaty to do that. He is a shackled A.I. Incapable of self-modification. His programming binds him to create a solution to conflict. If the current one is flawed, then he is forced into finding/creating a new one. However, in finding the correct one out of the three avalible, his judgement is no longer the defining factor because his own solution failed in the end. Therefor, it falls to the one that bested the Solution - Shepard - to make the choice. Whatever Solution is picked, his programming will compel him to carry out. So, No. There are no possibilities open to the Catalyst. He is incapable of "casting them aside" because that would violate his core programming, which he cannot do. Shepard is the one with the choice - the Catalyst is not. Either he get's his new solution, or he is forced to carry on with a flawed solution, which would ALSO violate his programming directives and cause conflict. The Catalyst is the one that's gridlocked here. If Shepard refuses, he loses his chance to impliment the new solution. And he is completely incapable of picking one of the three options because said manual interface is beyond his capability - thus, whichever choice is manually selected, he is programed to impliment. No arguements.

Again, shoot at his hologram and see if he doesn't cast them aside.  Take too long to make a choice and see if the Catalyst doesn't cast them aside.  Heck, refuse the Crucible option entirely and see if he's worried about "violating his programming."

He's not bound to use the Crucible, he can and does easily opt not to. 

Why would he have to wait until the next cycle?  Call a ceasefire and/or invite another organic up.  There's no point in waiting until another cycle.  There's billions of other organics out there that can easily make the choice Shepard didn't make.  The facts stand, the Catalyst is not obligated to do those solutions as he can discard them readily.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 30 juillet 2013 - 08:01 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

silverexile17s wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

So apparently the Prothean scientists blocking out the Keepers didn't do anything to help us. This cycle wasn't different. It's just because Shepard is standing there that the Catalyst's solution won't work anymore.

Damn right it won't work anymore, because you're going to fire that thing and kill him and his toys unless he does some fast thinking and talks you into something else. Gee, how much logic did that take? Really deep thought. Now he's got to figure out a way to keep you talking while the keepers sabotage the destroy part.

Reapers have lied.... Sovereign "We have no beginning, and we have no end. We are infinite." Now this either means that the reapers just exist in a story book that the old man is telling that kid in the stargazer scene or Sovereign is lying. I would have liked to have had a little more dialogue with Sovereign.

"You are not Saren."
"No s*** Sherlock."
".......
"Yadda yadda yadda... Yeah, you're big. You're bad. You wanna kill us. We get it. You're also full of s***. Machines just don't spontaneously appear, so who or what made you?"
"It's not something you can comprehend. This conversation is over."


And it doesn't get angry if Shepard refuses. It just reveals its true nature. You were being trolled.

Well, look what Shepard did. Shepard made use of everything the protheans left the galaxy and united the galaxy, and stood against the Reapers united. Shepard docked the Crucible and broke straight through the core of the Reaper fleet to do it. All that factors into the Catalyst's evaluation of Shepard.

Impossible - his core directives prevent him destroying the tool that can create a new solution to replace the now-defunct one. Replacing the flawed solution is his primary goal. Doing anything to jeprodize that, like sabotage the Crucible, would violate his core programing.

The Reapers are just proxies - who's to say they are even aware of when their beginning was? To them, they likely don't have any memory of a beginning. Just... coming online and existing one day. Sovergien isn't lying in that scene - it likely isn't even aware of having a beginning. None of the Reapers likely have the awareness of self necessary to contemplate a "beginning." Despite each being a "nation-mind," they still have even less actuall free will then a Shackled A.I. Even the pre-Morning War geth had a better sense of identity then them.

It's more likely that the Reapers themselves simply don't ask. I get the feeling they don't question themselves all that much - they never had a reason to care about what their beginnings were or who made them. All that matters is their mission to "preserve" life. Everything else is irrelivent to them.

You're giving too much credit to Shepard.  Shepard had nothing to do with the Crucible docking.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

The other lingering question btw:

How the heck did they design the Crucible to do what it did, without knowing what they were doing or what the Crucible would do?...

How is that even possible? It's like making a TV without knowing it's a TV. Can that even be done?

[ghost9191]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

The other lingering question btw:

How the heck did they design the Crucible to do what it did, without knowing what they were doing or what the Crucible would do?...

How is that even possible? It's like making a TV without knowing it's a TV. Can that even be done?

yeah it can be done. if you have instructions or someone telling you what to do, you can make something without knowing what it is. And Hackett does kinda say they begin to understand it for the most part. but again ,

like a puzzle i guess, you can put it together before knowing what it is. Unless you look at the box.  Might not be the best analogy 

[Wolfva2]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
New possibilities to Shepard. Not the Catalyst, since he isn't the one that can make them happen. To the Catalyst, they are obligations. To Shepard, they are possibilities. The Catalyst is bound to fulfil the end of the Cycles and the Solution. Shepard is the one that can choose which end the Solution culminates in.

No I'd say they're definitely new possibilities for the Catalyst... as he can discard them at the drop of a hat.  They're merely possibilities for the Catalyst, whereas Shepard doesn't have a choice (if he wants the galaxy to survive the Reapers).  He either picks from those choices or loses everything, there is no in-between.

He can't discard them at a hat; if he could he would.  Why bother telling Shep about Destroy anyways?  See, if the AI was lying, he could say, "Shepard, you have been tricked.  Using the Crucible will send a beam of light that wipes out all organic life in the universe.  But if you chose to merge with me, you will be saved and your loved ones will live."  THAT would be him lying to promote his cause.  Saying, "Hey, sure, you can completely destroy me.  Or you can join with me.  Or, you can make me your widdle love slave! " isn't exactly  promoting his cause, or survival. 

Refuse IS a decision.  By refusing, you're stating you're not going to use the crucible.  You're maintaining the status quo...that is, the Reapers harvest all the tech races then retreat for another 50K years.  It has to be Shepard, because in all the cycles he's the only Apex creature to prove himself by getting to the AI. 

[Wolfva2]

Ya know, I just had an epiphany. WHY are we arguing about whether or not the AI is lying? We already know he IS NOT. The epilogues show us everything he said about the choices is true. Pick destroy? Yep, reapers go byebye, as do most synthetics and the relays go boom. Pick control? Uh huh...you become Shepard 2.0, now in BlueRay! Synthesize? Ok, everyone is walking around glowing green with circuitry on their faces. All like he said. And we know the epilogues are true because they are outside of the 4th wall; they exist to inform US...the gamer...of what has happened. Not the character.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

silverexile17s wrote...

No one wants to live like that forever - they would want to come out of the "Matrix" eventually.  Why waste resources preserving bodies to return to, when you can just simply take everything and meld it all together?

Missing the point. It's about control. I didn't suggest they put us in the Matrix, I suggested that they control us to the point where we have the inability to make choice, similar to the Machines in the Matrix. The Reapers have the necessary resources to rule absolutely and harvest at their whim.

Also, take a good look at the Reapers - do they seem to be the type to ever expect death? They probably think that the numbers of Reaper deaths will decrease from cycle as their collective knowledge grows.

What's better than a few Reaper deaths? Absolutely no Reaper deaths, which works if they don't let us borrow their technology.

The Reapers have never let us discover more then they want us to know. And every race having similar technology (mass effect based) makes it easier to know what to expect every cycle, as well as streamline the process so that life recovers from each cycle faster then before.

And it's still an insanely ineffective plan. The Reapers harvest us to make more Reapers. I'm not suggesting that they let us develop on our own. I'm suggesting that it's far more effective for them to simply issue marshal law, keep us each confined to our own planet, and harvest us as needed. No rebellion, no time wasted hunting down every last organic across the galaxy, none of that crap.

[AlanC9]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...
And it's still an insanely ineffective plan. The Reapers harvest us to make more Reapers. I'm not suggesting that they let us develop on our own. I'm suggesting that it's far more effective for them to simply issue marshal law, keep us each confined to our own planet, and harvest us as needed. No rebellion, no time wasted hunting down every last organic across the galaxy, none of that crap. 

Something like Stargate's Goa'uld, or Master System in Jack Chalker's Rings of the Master series, right. Keep the planets at a low technological level forever. Master System is a bit closer since it really did rule the whole galaxy while the Goa'uld did not.

Chalker had some ideas that would have been interesting in an RPG. The heroes are trying to turn off Master System with five command rings that are scattered all over the galaxy. The rings are guarded, but not impossible to reach or just plain destroyed. Why not? Well, it turns out that as part of Master System's core programming the rings must be in the hands of humans with authority, and it must be possible for humans to use the rings. So it, for instance, assembles a huge space flleet to stop the rebels, but leaves them a hidden a way to defeat the fleet, because it simply must. The metagame knowledge that we have in an RPG -- this thing must be winnable somehow -- is in-universe knowledge in that series.

Let's see someone try to apply this to the Crucible.

@ StreetMagic: really, I shouldn't have brought it up. But as a sometime editor I'm twitchy about stuff like that

[SpamBot2000]

Look, l'enfant terrible offers those choices to Shep because bad writing. Any reasoning about this is severely compromised by a fallacious starting point, one that presumes there is some background to the existence of this thing in Mass Effect. There isn't. It wasn't there in Mass Effect 1. It's a fiction-breaking imposition.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 30 juillet 2013 - 06:35 .

[someguy1231]

This was actually a big reason I disliked the ending. We only defeat the Reapers because the Reapers allow it, making our "victory" feel hollow and unearned.

[ShepnTali]

someguy1231 wrote...

This was actually a big reason I disliked the ending. We only defeat the Reapers because the Reapers allow it, making our "victory" feel hollow and unearned.

That could be a big reason why I felt like crap when it finished. The vast majority of the time with any other game, I hardly remember how it ends. I either enjoyed the game, or I didn't. And it can't just be because there were no rainbow crapping unicorns or ewoks. The Walking Dead game left me wanting more in a good way, as dark and dreary as it is. I didn't feel rotten about it at all.