272 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Here's the deal. If they were as overpowered as we think, why bother locking out the relays at all in any of the cycles? Why not just swoop in from dark space and just do a sweep of all the systems. It would be more efficient, and machines are efficient. Unless they're not as OP as we think.

What's the efficiency metric here?Not time, surely. A couple centuries are trivial to Reapers.

[xsdob]

Darkin30 wrote...

I don't believe in the no win scenario

It's called the middle east.

[dorktainian]

heres a biggy.

the crudible is a power source right? a power source that helps them, when if you choose one of the three choices it turns off the relays. (all three supposed endings).

turn that on it's head. what if having the relays operational actually turns the tide of the war and helps us win it? Yeah it might take huge sacrifices all round but surely that would be a given when actually fighting a war? The reapers are not unbeatable. grab a tow rope, attach it to the citadel, and tow it into the nearest black hole.

[Archonsg]

@liggy002

I am fine with the Crucible, in fact, at this point, I don't even care if DEM is the only way to beat the Reapers.

I do however still abhor the fact that Shepard has to take suicide instructions from Starbrat.

[andy6915]

People really want an unconventional victory? Where we win because of friendship and teamwork? I'm sorry, I thought ME was a somewhat mature western RPG, not an immature Japanese RPG like Blue Dragon or Star Ocean.

Oh, and unconventional tactics? Like what the Turians and Asari did? Yes, that worked out so well for those races... Oh wait, it didn't.

[Jadebaby]

andy69156915 wrote...

People really want an unconventional victory? Where we win because of friendship and teamwork? I'm sorry, I thought ME was a somewhat mature western RPG, not an immature Japanese RPG like Blue Dragon or Star Ocean.

Oh, and unconventional tactics? Like what the Turians and Asari did? Yes, that worked out so well for those races... Oh wait, it didn't.

You thought wrong.

Also, winning because of not friendship, but a united galaxy, does not automatically make this a JRPG.

[SpamBot2000]

andy69156915 wrote...

People really want an unconventional victory? Where we win because of friendship and teamwork? I'm sorry, I thought ME was a somewhat mature western RPG, not an immature Japanese RPG like Blue Dragon or Star Ocean.

Oh, and unconventional tactics? Like what the Turians and Asari did? Yes, that worked out so well for those races... Oh wait, it didn't.

Because teamwork is clearly not as 'somewhat mature' as a green beam turning trees into half-robots or becoming the computer god of the universe?

And now to painfully extract palm from deep in face...

[Someone With Mass]

andy69156915 wrote...

People really want an unconventional victory? Where we win because of friendship and teamwork? I'm sorry, I thought ME was a somewhat mature western RPG, not an immature Japanese RPG like Blue Dragon or Star Ocean.

Oh, and unconventional tactics? Like what the Turians and Asari did? Yes, that worked out so well for those races... Oh wait, it didn't.

*coughmasseffect2wassetaroundthiswholepremisecough*

[andy6915]

ME2 was not that. At all. In fact, many members of the party disliked each other quite a bit, absolutely no friendship whatsoever. It was a story of a bunch of experts working under one commander with good combat and leadership skills to bring down an enemy base. Sounds pretty military to me.

[Jadebaby]

andy69156915 wrote...

ME2 was not that. At all. In fact, many members of the party disliked each other quite a bit, absolutely no friendship whatsoever. It was a story of a bunch of experts working under one commander with good combat and leadership skills to bring down an enemy base. Sounds pretty military to me.

You can look at it like that, but you can also look at it like this.

They were all friends to Shepard in one way or another, especially if you did their loyalty missions. Sure, there were personality clashes, but if you did enough you didn't have to choose sides and could get them to sort things out.

The very fact that no one dies if you gain their loyalty and respect, shows how important trust and belief is, *in a friendship.*

So to say that "ME2 was not that. At all." Is just blatantly untrue.

And since when can't military people also have friends?

[Archonsg]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

ME2 was not that. At all. In fact, many members of the party disliked each other quite a bit, absolutely no friendship whatsoever. It was a story of a bunch of experts working under one commander with good combat and leadership skills to bring down an enemy base. Sounds pretty military to me.

You can look at it like that, but you can also look at it like this.

They were all friends to Shepard in one way or another, especially if you did their loyalty missions. Sure, there were personality clashes, but if you did enough you didn't have to choose sides and could get them to sort things out.

The very fact that no one dies if you gain their loyalty and respect, shows how important trust and belief is, *in a friendship.*

So to say that "ME2 was not that. At all." Is just blatantly untrue.

And since when can't military people also have friends?

That is correct.
Also, ask *any* service men (and women) about what and why they would fight to the death for and it won't be for country, a flag or ideals. 

When you are down there in a foxhole, you fight because the person next to you is your friend and you'll need each other to survive.

Someone at Bioware knew this, hence that wonderful little script for Mordin when he said its hard to fight "for the universe... But can and will fight for favorite nephew."

Modifié par Archonsg, 24 décembre 2012 - 01:25 .

[JPR1964]

andy69156915 wrote...

ME2 was not that. At all. In fact, many members of the party disliked each other quite a bit, absolutely no friendship whatsoever. It was a story of a bunch of experts working under one commander with good combat and leadership skills to bring down an enemy base. Sounds pretty military to me.

Apparently, you didn't play the same ME2 as me, or your capacity of immersion in a video game is very minimal...

There is a lot of "Friendship" in ME2, and that's the only redeeming point in my eye of this game so dumbed down in character customization...

For example, the whole story with Garrus... And there is many more for me...

But, ok, if you"re only playing total jerk, there is no friendship in ME1, ME2 and ME3...

that's your choices...

JPR out!

[AlanC9]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Give over Alan, Mac and Casey wrote our endings and they are straight up bizarre. As for them not wanting to allow for conventional victory I agree, but that’s not to say that actually allowing the player to win sans Casperhuge moral compromise would have been any moreless ridiculous than what we got.

I'm only saying that what Mac and Casey did had nothing to do with not getting a conventional victory, since no one at Bioware ever wanted to do a conventional victory; probably because without some kind of Reaper Off Switch there isn't a good way for Shepard to be relevant in the endgame.

And sure, a version of ME3 could have been written to end in a CV. So what?

Modifié par AlanC9, 24 décembre 2012 - 04:17 .

[Archonsg]

Wait, didn't Leviathan used an "off switch" as well as Destroy?
Since its already there, why not just have a moving casualty scale (including Shepard) like in ME2?

Still do not see why in a game, especially in a game for them to insist on such a depressing end for Shepard.

For a book or movie yes, not for s game.

[string3r]

MacroSpamMK wrote...

If you had enough Paragon you should've been able to choose the blue writing with the Catalyst and lecture him into realising what he's done is wrong and that he should feel bad. And then the Catalyst says, "You know what? You're right. I should go now". And then the Reapers stop fighting and leave the galaxy.

I mean, we were able to win the game with blue writing everywhere else...why not at the very end?

That would have also been infinitely more satisfying.

[The Spamming Troll]

string3r wrote...

MacroSpamMK wrote...

If you had enough Paragon you should've been able to choose the blue writing with the Catalyst and lecture him into realising what he's done is wrong and that he should feel bad. And then the Catalyst says, "You know what? You're right. I should go now". And then the Reapers stop fighting and leave the galaxy.

I mean, we were able to win the game with blue writing everywhere else...why not at the very end?

That would have also been infinitely more satisfying.

some kind of non cambat battle of the minds with harbinger woulda been epic.

[The Spamming Troll]

AlanC9 wrote...

And sure, a version of ME3 could have been written to end in a CV. So what?

its as simple as, if the ending didnt suck, id still be playing the game.

so, it means almost everything to someone like me.

ME3 truely is the game of shoulda woulda couldas tho. thats for sure!

[AlanC9]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

And sure, a version of ME3 could have been written to end in a CV. So what?

its as simple as, if the ending didnt suck, id still be playing the game.

so, it means almost everything to someone like me.

CV? Or just alternate ME3s in general?

Yeah, I know you're not personally looking for a CV.  I'm just wondering why that one keeps coming up.

Modifié par AlanC9, 24 décembre 2012 - 05:24 .

[AlanC9]

Archonsg wrote...

Still do not see why in a game, especially in a game for them to insist on such a depressing end for Shepard.

For a book or movie yes, not for s game.

I wonder if this is the real dividing line between Bio and (some of) the fans. I'll bet they don't think games ought to be different from other media in that way.

[AlanC9]

Fandango9641 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
I'm only saying that what Mac and Casey did had nothing to do with not getting a conventional victory, since no one at Bioware ever wanted to do a conventional victory; probably because without some kind of Reaper Off Switch there isn't a good way for Shepard to be relevant in the endgame.

And sure, a version of ME3 could have been written to end in a CV. So what?

Right so the executive producer and lead writer for ME3 had no influence over how the game ended, despite writing the ending to the game? You’ve lost me Alan (and not for the first time). In any case, I’ll say again that the ending to Mass Effect was so nonsensical that anyone calling into question the viability of a conventional victory is completely missing the point…..not unlike messrs Mac and Cheese (who wrote the ending to our game don’t you know)!?!!!  

You're reading something I'm not writing. My point is that even if Mac and Casey had been killed in a car crash or something before ME2 was finished, whatever ME3 the new writers came up with wouldn't have been a conventional ending either. Drew K. didn't want one; the dark energy plot requires a super weapon of some sort,, since that one buids up to something like the Catalyst scene only more horrible, since the Reapers really were the good guys all along. No one at Bio was ever interested on a conventional victory.

Modifié par AlanC9, 24 décembre 2012 - 06:19 .

[Darkin30]

sw04ca wrote...

Darkin30 wrote...

I don't believe in the no win scenario

Perhaps not, but it believes in you.

Kirk found out, and so did Shepard.

Kirk died, but won. I always choose destroy, so all the reapers are dead, Shepard most likely lives.
Garrus knows, as long as someone is left standing at the end, it's victory.