272 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Reorte wrote...
Sure, they're not invincible, in the same way as a modern army isn't invicible against a bunch armed with bows and arrows. All they need is the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy...

That's one poor comparison, since the Codex also states that it takes three dreadnoughts to destroy one Reaper capital ship.

Guerrilla warfare. Thanix weapons. The knowledge that a Reaper must transfer power from its kinetic barriers to its mass effect field generators to land on a planet, leaving its shields at partial strength.

Hey, what do you know. The allied forces can do all three.

[David7204]

That's different. The technology behind Control is technology the Reapers themselves came up with and allowed Shepard to use. It's not a Deus Ex Machina. A super virus would be.

[TheProtheans]

David7204 wrote...

That's different. The technology behind Control is technology the Reapers themselves came up with and allowed Shepard to use. It's not a Deus Ex Machina. A super virus would be.

Why did the Reapers come up with technology that Organics could use to control them.

Modifié par TheProtheans, 22 décembre 2012 - 01:03 .

[Someone With Mass]

Rifneno wrote...
And Wendy's food tastes like elephant taint. What's your point? I'm talking about the sheer physical power of the two sides. The difference is simply too much to overcome without some "I win" button. But since you brought it up, the Reapers clearly win in the tactics department too seeing as they're God only knows how much smart that us and have spent millions of years honing their tactics.

They have yet to show any special tactics beyond brute strength and the old scorched earth tactic, which amounts to them pretty much destroying everything they can see.

They also really showed those isolated planets that had no real way of defending themselves and had pretty much no large fleets available to mount a counterattack. Truly, the Reapers have gained vast amounts of experience by slaughtering sheep.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 22 décembre 2012 - 01:04 .

[SpamBot2000]

In b4 'No! It's so much more REAL to become god or robo-romance the entire universe!'...

D'oh! Ninja'ed again by the Cult of St. Casey!

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 22 décembre 2012 - 01:05 .

[Jadebaby]

- States in OP about conventional victory, by it's very definition, being impossible.

- People go on to talk about conventional victory.

It's like you David how you kept saying that the Kai Leng thing isn't a plot hole.

[Aaleel]

I think people get confused with this topic all the time.

The way the story was written it's impossible. Could it have been written into the story, or course, you can write anything into the story. But you're beaten over the head with the fact that it's not possible for the entire game.

In ME2, you studied the Omega 4 relay and said if we had an IFF we can through, you went out an got an IFF, and going through was not impossible anymore. You studied the seeker swarms and found a countermeasure for a small group. You studied the collector ship and upgraded the Normandy and were able to go head to head with it.

In ME3, you studied the reapers, fought the reapers and said, we can't win this conventionally, we have to use an unconventional weapon.

Then as players just look at the losses suffered by reapers and compare it to the losses suffered by organics, project that out and they're right to say they can't do it conventionally.

[David7204]

Because the Catalyst knows his solution is flawed. The three options are there so an organic with the knowledge of a better solution also has the ability to put it in place.

[EnvyTB075]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

- States in OP about conventional victory, by it's very definition, being impossible.

- People go on to talk about conventional victory.

It's like you David how you kept saying that the Kai Leng thing isn't a plot hole.

Its not exactly conventional when you have Leviathan/Rachni allies supported by a pre-everything weapon thing that disables Reaper shields, something no one has been able to do outside of the Saren/Sovereign dynamic.

David7204 wrote...

Because the Catalyst knows his solution
is flawed. The three options are there so an organic with the knowledge
of a better solution also has the ability to put it in place.

And the Catalyst is the collective Reaper intelligence, so the Reapers allowed it to happen.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 22 décembre 2012 - 01:08 .

[Twinzam.V]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Twinzam.V wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I don't think it is impossible, anything is possible if those chose to write it in a way that made it possible. Hell they could write that the Reapers caught a bad case of the sniffles and were all blinded by their giant hankies. My view is it shouldn't happen for the dozens of reasons I have mentioned before in various threads about this topic on here of which I cba to repeat for the millionth time.

And it was possible. In ME2 you're completely overpowered if you do everything right .
If you make every upgrade to the Normandy SR2 she can face a dreadnought, you have the M920 Cain that vaporizes everything in range and every race in the galaxy has access to this tecnology not forgeting that at least the Turians and Humans as races with a history of war would make this tecnology standart, especially the Thanix cannons.

And it was not possible in ME3 because of how they wrote it. You missed the point. They can write any game to make anything possible but once they have written the game what is possible is limited to what they allowed. They did not allow it in ME3, it was not possible in ME3. They could of wrote it so was a possible outcome in ME3 but they did not therefore it is not.

If you say that we cant win because someone decided to write that we might have the power to face them but no we cant, i concede to that.
But the truth is we have everything going on our favor at the end of ME2 and then it's decided in ME3 that it doesnt count.
Real life wars were won with less, like 30.000 against 7.000 and guess who won.

[David7204]

I said it isn't plot armor. And it isn't. It isn't a plot hole, either.

[Neizd]

It's a video game...everything is possible as long as developers give players the possibility.

[Jadebaby]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Even the Codex says that a conventional victory is theoretically possible.

Although clearly technologically superior to the Citadel forces, the Reapers have experienced casualties in the battles across the galaxy. This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated.

http://masseffect.wi...dex/The_Reapers

Also, to make it work from a gameplay perspective, simply have Shepard find ways to coordinate with different fleet groups that are effective against different things and have their effectiveness be affected by war assets or perhaps mission outcomes, like different shielding technology, weapons, troops, pilots and the likes.

This is interesting.....

And yes, how about, Shepard co-ordinates fleets from the Normandy then Harbinger follows the Normandy and attacks and then it ends with Harbinger sending out wave after wave to attack them and "collect" shepard's body, then when you defeat enough waves, Harbinger just goes to blast you away. But then Leviathan's shoot a Mass Accelerator round through Harbinger or mind-screw him...

Just a thought.

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 22 décembre 2012 - 01:09 .

[David7204]

No.

[Mcfly616]

EDI tells you straight up in ME2: Thannix canons/missiles won't affect it....

(And that Reaper was dead)

Face it, a Reaper is bigger than a dreadnaught. Even if all the Reaper ships shields were down, they'd still win. By a lot.....eating frigates by the handful

[Jadebaby]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

- States in OP about conventional victory, by it's very definition, being impossible.

- People go on to talk about conventional victory.

It's like you David how you kept saying that the Kai Leng thing isn't a plot hole.

Its not exactly conventional when you have Leviathan/Rachni allies supported by a pre-everything weapon thing that disables Reaper shields, something no one has been able to do outside of the Saren/Sovereign dynamic.

Thank you.

David7204 wrote...

I said it isn't plot armor. And it isn't. It isn't a plot hole, either.

Just as it wouldn't be a conventional victory even if the galaxy did fight and win.

[David7204]

That's just semantics.

[EnvyTB075]

David7204 wrote...

That's just semantics.

No it isn't.

[Dragoonlordz]

Twinzam.V wrote...

If you say that we cant win because someone decided to write that we might have the power to face them but no we cant, i concede to that.
But the truth is we have everything going on our favor at the end of ME2 and then it's decided in ME3 that it doesnt count.
Real life wars were won with less, like 30.000 against 7.000 and guess who won.

And you might have everything going in your favor in a game of chess but when the other player stands up and cracks you around the skull with a chair that favor disappears quite fast as you lay unconscious. The whole what if nonsense is just silly. There is no 'what if' because of 'what is'.

They could of written ME3 in way that tips the battles in your favor all the way through, they could of written is as a cake walk if chosen to do so however they chose to write it in favor events wise on the side of the Reapers. Any battle, any event can go either way but in games, movies or books it will always go in favor of whatever side the writer or creator decides and they write the content around that. It is impossible to win conventionally in ME3 because they wrote it in a way that events would not allow it to be possible. Everything else is fanfiction.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 22 décembre 2012 - 01:21 .

[Twinzam.V]

vivaladricas wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

EDI tells you straight up in ME2: Thannix canons/missiles won't affect it....

(And that Reaper was dead)

Face it, a Reaper is bigger than a dreadnaught. Even if all the Reaper ships shields were down, they'd still win. By a lot.....eating frigates by the handful

Reapers are just beast son!!  Could fly through a black hole and the black hole would die, could fly into a star and just crush it.  They straight be gansta's!! 

Never underestimate the power of the force. 

[EnvyTB075]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Twinzam.V wrote...

If you say that we cant win because someone decided to write that we might have the power to face them but no we cant, i concede to that.
But the truth is we have everything going on our favor at the end of ME2 and then it's decided in ME3 that it doesnt count.
Real life wars were won with less, like 30.000 against 7.000 and guess who won.

And you might have everything going in your favor in a game of chess but when the other player stands up and cracks you around the skull with a chair that favor disappears quite fast as you lay unconscious. The whole what if nonsense is just silly. There is no 'what if' because of 'what is'.

They could of written ME3 in way that tips the battles in your favor all the way through, they could of written is as a cake walk if chosen to do so however they chose to write it in favor events wise on the side of the Reapers. Any battle, any event can go either way but in games, movies or books it will always go in favor of whatever side the writer or creator decides and they write the content around that. It is impossible to win conventionally in ME3 because they wrote it in a way that events would not allow it to be possible. Everything else is fanfiction.

No, its fanfiction when there is actual writing involved. What we are doing here are taking some of the elements introduced in ME3, keeping in contact with previously established lore to create a hypothetical endgame that properly takes into account the players actions with regards to raw military power and political occurances.

I.e, brainstorming.

[Linkforlife]

After reading the Reapers entry on the ME wiki, I got to wonder: just how powerful was Sovereign? It says no other Reaper appears to have the design flaw where defeating a possessed cybernetic thrall results in it's shields overloading. Was he flawed, if he is, why would the Reapers leave such a flawed being behind if it could be defeated in such a way?

The Reaper vulnerabilities section also makes the Reapers seem weaker than we were led to believe, given how 3-4 dreadnaughts can wipe out one with concentrated fire. The destroyers can be defeated theoretically by fighters and cruisers. Then again, it also says they would need the right strategy, intel and weapons to take down the Reapers, which not one leader in ME3 seems to be doing save for building the Crucible.

(P.S. I may be thinking aloud here, forgive me if I am wrong, the coffee has not kicked in yet)

[Someone With Mass]

Mcfly616 wrote...

EDI tells you straight up in ME2: Thannix canons/missiles won't affect it....

(And that Reaper was dead)

Face it, a Reaper is bigger than a dreadnaught. Even if all the Reaper ships shields were down, they'd still win. By a lot.....eating frigates by the handful

Considering that the Normandy was able to kill Sovereign with one shot, I find that situation to be unlikely.

Also, I like how the game shrugs away such things as logistics when it comes to the Reapers just because to reinforce the fact that they're alien, actively violating physics simply because they're so smart.