272 réponses à ce sujet

[Sejborg]

Kite Exeter wrote...

What, none of you believe in the power of friendship anymore?

Lol. Or how about Shepard uses the power of imagination to defeat the reapers? 

[Kite Exeter]

Sejborg wrote...

Kite Exeter wrote...

What, none of you believe in the power of friendship anymore?

Lol. Or how about Shepard uses the power of imagination to defeat the reapers? 

Or the power of a double rainbow.

The reapers have never seen **** like that before.

[TheProtheans]

AlanC9 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Alan, I could concede all of that and still take issue with any claim that suggests it would be dumber than our current three colour conclusion.

A successful Refuse keeps all the dumbness of the existing endings  -- they're still there -- and adds a boatload more. Of course it's worse.

Quite, all the garbage writing and concepts still exist within the universe.
Can it get worse? I would say no.

We're already at rock bottom.

[Sejborg]

Kite Exeter wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Kite Exeter wrote...

What, none of you believe in the power of friendship anymore?

Lol. Or how about Shepard uses the power of imagination to defeat the reapers? 

Or the power of a double rainbow.

The reapers have never seen **** like that before.

Shepard duel wielding rainbows? **** just got real. 

[Jadebaby]

Alas, people keep using the term conventional...

[Kite Exeter]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Alas, people keep using the term conventional...

We're talking about Shepard beating Reapers to death while dual-wielding rainbows. I think it's safe to say conventionality has been spaced.

[TiminatorT2000]

unlikely? yes. Impossible? no

superior technology has been beaten before, although it usually wins, there are exceptions to the rule.(e.g. scots with no armour were able to beat full armoured knights with wooden pikes, on one occasion the zulus were able to beat a small british force)

For all the reapers advantages they have one rather large disadvantage, its takes along time to replenish there numbers.Sure they can make ground troops easily, however ships take years to develop. So one battle where the reapers lose could be enough to win the war.

[WhiteKnyght]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Seriously, this topic has been discussed so much on the BSN since the ME3 release, and I'm just sick of it!
 
People always keep saying that they want a conventional victory when it just downright wont happen! We've had threads and polls and groups about it, yet the people just don't seem to get it, it.is.impossible! No matter how much you want it, or think you want it, it cannot and will not happen.

Now, before you start raging at me, let me explain why conventional victory is impossible.

First of all, we have the Thannix Cannons, since receiving this technology from Sovereign in ME1 the galaxy (specifically Turians) have reverse engineered this weaponry and applied it to their fighters, and in ME3 they had been continuously developing the technology and started manufacturing "Thannix MIssiles" as well. Proving that they have been improving upon this already powerful technology.

Second of all, we have the Normandy, packed with Reaper tech from Thannix weaponry to the Reaper IFF, not to mention a bunch of other anti-Reaper algorithms to boot. This stealth frigate allows us to travel around the galaxy and fight the Reapers, hosting the most badass of them all, whose very existence is unconventional, Commander Shepard.

Third of all... We have the Geth, now if you saved this race on Rannoch you will notice that in order to do so, they have to upload Reaper code, this is not only to improve their own way of life, but to also help them become individualistic entities which, in turn, helps them become better soldiers. So if you saved the Geth on Rannoch, you now have a Legion of Synthetic forces willing to help fight for you in this war. This also means that they are now, yes that's right, and unconventional ally.

So let's stop whining about a conventional victory please, and let's start fighting for an unconventionally victory!

First of all, I think "Thanix" is a brand name. The Cannon fires molten metal at a fraction of the speed of light, the missles just explode. No way the effect of the former can be applied to the latter.

Second of all, the Normandy is one ship against thousands, maybe millions, of giant dreadnoughts that can take down dozens of ships singlehandedly before going down themselves.

Third, the Geth are insignificant compared to the Reapers. A Geth Dreadnought would get torn to pieces in a one-on-one with a Capital Reaper.

[MegaSovereign]

Well the last galactic threat before the Reapers wasn't handled through conventional means.

I say we hit the Reapers with the genophage.

[Jadebaby]

Kite Exeter wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Alas, people keep using the term conventional...

We're talking about Shepard beating Reapers to death while dual-wielding rainbows. I think it's safe to say conventionality has been spaced.

I'd pay for that ending.

[Rip504]

The Reapers use to harvest all civilized life in the galaxy. Then they took an arrow to the knee.

[Arisugawa]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Beating Reapers to death with double rainbow?

DOUBLE IMPOSSIBRU

Woooooaaaaahhhhhh...DOUBLE IMPOSSIBRU...

What does it mean?

It means this...

[SpamBot2000]

AlanC9 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Alan, I could concede all of that and still take issue with any claim that suggests it would be dumber than our current three colour conclusion.

A successful Refuse keeps all the dumbness of the existing endings  -- they're still there -- and adds a boatload more. Of course it's worse.

Not so. With a proper Refusal, the space magic is revealed as nothing but a Reaper ploy to get confused, concussed Shepard to lay down his life for nothing. Shepard would then have the option to use the admittedly stupid Crucible, only NOT by shooting some tube. This would mess up the Reapers in a way to be determined by a qualified writer, leading to our brave fleet blowing their tentacled asses out of our sky..

It doesn't add MORE stupid because using the Crucible to bring down the Reapers is already in the ending. And it removes a ****ton of stupid that serves no purpose now that the universe apparently didn't end.

Of course it's space miles better. 

[xsdob]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Alan, I could concede all of that and still take issue with any claim that suggests it would be dumber than our current three colour conclusion.

A successful Refuse keeps all the dumbness of the existing endings  -- they're still there -- and adds a boatload more. Of course it's worse.

Not so. With a proper Refusal, the space magic is revealed as nothing but a Reaper ploy to get confused, concussed Shepard to lay down his life for nothing. Shepard would then have the option to use the admittedly stupid Crucible, only NOT by shooting some tube. This would mess up the Reapers in a way to be determined by a qualified writer, leading to our brave fleet blowing their tentacled asses out of our sky..

It doesn't add MORE stupid because using the Crucible to bring down the Reapers is already in the ending. And it removes a ****ton of stupid that serves no purpose now that the universe apparently didn't end.

Of course it's space miles better. 

That's indoctrinationist talk to me, and that  kind of thinking is three steps behind communism and 5 hop skip and jumps away from imperial theocracy.

I can't support this.

[Eterna]

If the Protheans couldn't win than neither can we. Which is pretty much confirmed by the refuse ending.

[SpamBot2000]

xsdob wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Alan, I could concede all of that and still take issue with any claim that suggests it would be dumber than our current three colour conclusion.

A successful Refuse keeps all the dumbness of the existing endings  -- they're still there -- and adds a boatload more. Of course it's worse.

Not so. With a proper Refusal, the space magic is revealed as nothing but a Reaper ploy to get confused, concussed Shepard to lay down his life for nothing. Shepard would then have the option to use the admittedly stupid Crucible, only NOT by shooting some tube. This would mess up the Reapers in a way to be determined by a qualified writer, leading to our brave fleet blowing their tentacled asses out of our sky..

It doesn't add MORE stupid because using the Crucible to bring down the Reapers is already in the ending. And it removes a ****ton of stupid that serves no purpose now that the universe apparently didn't end.

Of course it's space miles better. 

That's indoctrinationist talk to me, and that  kind of thinking is three steps behind communism and 5 hop skip and jumps away from imperial theocracy.

I can't support this.

What indoctrination? An unindoctrinated Shep meets the catalyst, who makes him these silly fraudulent offers. Shepard says 'nice try', proceeds to activate Crucible. No indoctriminations here, no sir! Just plain old sense.

Admittedly I still prefer the MEHEM, but this is pretty good too.

[Alien Number Six]

Another ending thread?

[AshenShug4r]

Conventional victory might have been possible if the council listened to Shepard's warnings from the very start. If the reapers don't pour through the citadel relay first then they're very vulnerable and can be killed(as evidenced by the numerous reaper deaths through out the trilogy as well as several notable entries in the Codex). 

The reapers main strength is in their surprise attack. Organics are lulled into a false sense of security, believing themselves masters of the galaxy, when all of a sudden a vast horde of gigantic technologically superior metal gods of death rip into their seat of government and hit every single star system thats home to a spacefaring species before they can say 'wtf'.

Our cycle had all the warnings. We had time to prepare. We had Shepard. We had Reaper technology to adapt and turn on our foes. Unfortunately we also had a bunch of idiots on the council who couldn't see what was right in front of their faces.

[The Spamming Troll]

Eterna5 wrote...

If the Protheans couldn't win than neither can we. Which is pretty much confirmed by the refuse ending.

only because the ME3 protheans were written that way in ME3.
only because refusals ending was written that way in ME3.

if you dont get the idea behind conventional victory, its that the story would change!

seriously, think harder about it. you do know if conventional victory was possible, we wouldnt need a refusal ending, right?  were not saying add conventional victory so the star child makes sense. its more like add conventional victory so star child doesnt have to exist.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 23 décembre 2012 - 04:12 .

[AlanC9]

Yeah, we don't seem to be able to have a CV thread without the successful Refuse idea contaminating it. I think that's partly because successful Refuse is something that Bio could have actually delivered in the EC. A CV would have been possible only with a conceptual overhaul of ME3; Bio never intended a CV even back when they were fooling with the dark energy plot.

And it's partly because successful Refuse makes for a more interesting argument. A total rewrite of ME3 is too hypothetical to argue about. Unless someone comes up with a really bad idea for how it would work, in which case you can make fun of that.

Modifié par AlanC9, 23 décembre 2012 - 04:35 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Heck, successful Refuse would probably need to go back further than ME3, and back into ME2: that's the point at which the Reapers were not only prominent in technology, but we were given a basis for numerical overkill. Plus the whole lack of preparation thing.

Now, that being said, there were a lot little-acknowledged concepts introduced in ME2 and ME3 that could have helped build/justify a conventional war scenario: the introduction of (Cerberus) fabricators that could conceivably mass-produce weapons (and conceivably ships/fleets/war material) out of raw materials: the expansion of the use of synthetics as fighting machines: the potential Turian-Alliance arms race: the CDN introduction of city-scale kinetic barriers which could have limited the Reaper option of orbital bombardment: ground-based anti-space canons that could relatively easy take out 'close' space ships: expansions of cybernetic and biotic technologies (including advances in Reaper-cybernetics): the whole Sanctuary advances: the potential utility of Thannix canons.

None of these promised the ability to fight the Reapers evenly, but they could have been used in a narrative justifying such. Really, once the galaxy was established to have the ability to mass-produce weapons, ships, soldiers (mechs/Cerberus troopers), and other material in short order, the Reapers could have been slipped into a more attritional campaign (if you ignored escalation/super-weapons).