33 réponses à ce sujet

[JTBehnke]

I don't know if there's been discussion on this before, but I'm planning on my first rogue playthrough to focus on getting the Accomplished Rogue achievement, which is earned by taking all the talents in the Rogue tree.  Obviously the Accomplished Warrior achievement is easier, as it only has eight talents as opposed to the Rogue trees sixteen.

I'm uncertain as to how I should proceed with building such a character.

Which specializations should I invest in?  I'm thinking Bard and Ranger, as Assassin and Duelist seem to be more for rogues who focus on dealing damage, and that's not what I'm looking for here, but I've been told that Bard is pretty useless.

What weapon style should I look into?  I know that in order to accomodate all the rogue talents I'll have to forgo the weapon talent trees, but I've been told that taking some talents from those trees is inevitable at some point.  I've no real head for rogue strategy, having only played a Two-Handed based Warrior and an Arcane Warrior-style mage at this point.

I'm hoping to have Dwarf Commoner as my origin, since I've seen most of the other Origins available to rogues and I'm saving City Elf for a Dual-Weapon based warrior.

Any advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

[Ieldra]

My "accomplished rogue" was both: a sneaky backstabber and a good damage-dealer, actually one of the most fun characters I ever played in an RPG.

Skills:Assassin 3
Duelist 4
Rogue 4-4-4-4 (3-4-4-4 until very late in the game)
Two Weapon 3-0-3 (3-0-0 until late in the game)

So yes, for much of the game I didn't have "Momentum", which limited her damage-dealing potential, but I still ended up with 47% of party damage in spite of being more the sneaky type for most of the game. Mark of Death is excellent against bosses, and Duelist abilities made her pretty much unhittable (defense 141 at the end) except from mages.

I'm planning a archer-type Ranger/Bard for my Dalish Elf, but I'm told they take quite a bit longer to get useful, and there are some hard decisions in talent selection. For the achievement, Duelist/Assassin is the way to go.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 janvier 2010 - 10:56 .

[king chris 2]

my plain boring rogue ie no specializations is now level 21 with 26 strength, dex 45, will 16, magic 12, 50 cunning and con 12 but with all items and weapons 32 strength, 61 dex, 25 will, magic 16, 54 cunning and 16 con. The items my rogue is wearing is rose's thorn, the edge, andruil's blessing, the spell ward, ring of ages, harvest festival ring, helm of honleath, red jenny seekers, the felons coat and cadash stompers. the skills are all dual weapons are maxed out, maxed stealth, maxed lock-picking, below the belt, deadly strike, lethality, dirty fighting, combat movement and coup de grace, so that just leaves me two to get to max rogue out, then going for if possible arrow of slaying if there is enough books to go round. also have played the game on nightmare. gold before final battle n final slim couldry quest is 27g, 38s n 50 c, so a very excellent rogue who can defend himself quite literally and can afford stuff after finishing most quests, not encountered trickster whim in random encouter, or the nug for leianna or even her personal quest to kill her mentor marjorlene because i gave her gifts before speaking to her, but apart from these quest managed to win the game so far.



King Chris

[JTBehnke]

Thanks for the tips. Here's the ability spread I'm thinking of:



Strength: 22

Dexterity: 32

Willpower: 20

Magic: N/A

Cunning: MAX

Constitution N/A



According to the information I've recieved, the high Cunning score will contribute more to my damage once I have Lethality, than Dexterity will overall. I'm pondering whether to stick with daggers or go Longsword/Dagger (using Starfang, naturally). That requires a Strength of 31 to be able to wield though, if memory serves, and I'm personally not a fan of relying on equipment buffs in order to equip other items, mainly because I'm something of a clothes horse and sometimes deliberately use gear that isn't the BEST because I think it looks better.

[highcastle]

I'd think about taking those points out of willpower and putting them back into Dex. Dex is highly useful for avoiding damage, not just dealing it. The higher your Dex, the harder you'll be to hit, which means you stay on your feet a lot longer.

[JTBehnke]

Will I have enough stamina to be effective?

[Faffnr]

Sure. A cunning rogue is better off backstabbing than relying on weapon abilities. And rune damage isn't used with weapon abilities.

[Haplose]

JTBehnke wrote...

Thanks for the tips. Here's the ability spread I'm thinking of:

Strength: 22
Dexterity: 32
Willpower: 20
Magic: N/A
Cunning: MAX
Constitution N/A

According to the information I've recieved, the high Cunning score will contribute more to my damage once I have Lethality, than Dexterity will overall. I'm pondering whether to stick with daggers or go Longsword/Dagger (using Starfang, naturally). That requires a Strength of 31 to be able to wield though, if memory serves, and I'm personally not a fan of relying on equipment buffs in order to equip other items, mainly because I'm something of a clothes horse and sometimes deliberately use gear that isn't the BEST because I think it looks better.

Cunning gives a bit more damage, when you stack all the additional Talent effects (some extra 20-30%), but Dexterity improves attack accuracy (Cunning doesn't help with that). And even an instantkill won't help much if you miss... The Defence and Physical Resistance boosts are great as well.

With party buffs and flanking attack bonus you can hit reliably enough... eventually. It takes some time before you can stack these buffs though and you may want to spend your party resources somewhere else.

20 Str should be enough for all your needs.
Oh and forget Longswords. dual daggers are far superior - especially for a Rogue.

[ArathWoeeye]

I am raising a rogue too.

Reading the topic, I think I'll go

1 Str, 1 Dex, 1 Cun each level till Strength is 20

Then go 1 dex, 2 cun till cun is maxed (if it gets maxed, not sure how many points i need)



Should I get some will power too? (Dalish elf)



..i should probably read that in-depth class guide

[Ieldra]

Don't underestimate Dexterity. Cunning gives better damage with "Lethality" and better armor piercing. Dexterity gives better attack and defense. Here are the endgame stats of my elf rogue at level 25:

str 18+6
dex 51+21
wil 18+4
mag 16+4
cun 67+4
con 12+4

@kelibell:
Willpower is totally unnecessary for a non-archer rogue, because most abilities are passive and backstabs depend on the enemy's position and state. It's different if you play a ranger type with lots of active bow abilities.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 janvier 2010 - 10:29 .

[ArathWoeeye]

Looking at rogue and dw, soo many active abilities.. I think a bit of a boost in stamina and/or stamina-regen items could be a good idea..

[RowanZwei]

As a backstab-happy rogue you should only be using two activated abilities: Mark of Death (from Assassin) and Dirty Fighting (the initial stun ability). I'd suggest the following stats: 20 Strength, then whatever you need in Cunning or Dex to get the next talent and then go 2/1 Cun/Dex. Check out my rogue Faren in the profile.



PS. It seems you don't need to get all 16 rogue talents to qualify for Accomplished rogue. Faren got it with the 14th talent spent there.

[nksaint]

Don't toss out Strength Rogues!



A DW strength Rogue with 2 swords is devastating. I've played a Cunning Rogue, a Dexterity Rogue and a Strength Rogue.



Unless you are using Bows Dexterity is not worth it. The best part about dexterity is your dodge.



Cunning is good, but you have to have all +Critical/Backstab gear or else you can't top a strength Rogue. Not to mention you HAVE to backstab or else it is not worth it.



Strength rogues are better all around. put in 42 strength, get the Warden Commanders armor and skill spam away. Also if you can get DW mastery so you can equip two longswords that is nice. More regular damage, high backstab damage and tons more damage through skills. Also with the warden commander armor on stamina usage is rarely an issue.



Just another perspective.

[Haplose]

And sluggish attack speed... especually with these dual-longswords.

[Hahren]

You could just leave strength at the minimum, and take the fade bonuses (+4 str). With the 3 items in the game (with stone prisoner) that add +2 to all stats you don't need to put anything into strength ever to equip the better leather in the game. You'll run around with rough leather for most of the game, but if you aren't getting hit what's it matter?

[Hahren]

kellibell wrote...

? about willpower ... I keep adding points there to beef up stamina. Or should I keep to dex and cunning?

More willpower is good if you run a lot of sustained, and use a lot of active skills. It's a good stat to have at 20-30pts (before gear) depending on how active the character is. If you are just letting the rogue auto-attack with backstabs then willpower is useless ala the typical min/max rogue build you find on these forums.

[Ieldra]

ArathWoeeye wrote...
Looking at rogue and dw, soo many active abilities.. I think a bit of a boost in stamina and/or stamina-regen items could be a good idea..

The question was about the rogue for the "accomplished rogue" achievement. You don't have the talent points left for most dw active talents if you go for all rogue talents and all the important assassin/duelist talents. The first dw line is completely passive, and the third, which you would go for next, has two active abilities before you get to the all-important Momentum. If you get there at all with the talent points available. The result: all the active talents *and* skills fit into the quickslot bar. And of those you only really need Mark of Death and Dirty Fighting. Anything else you can consider optional. 

As for Strength, it really doesn't matter. It's much easier to make a rogue who doesn't get hit than one who can wear heavy armor. Reducing the damage by an added 10% makes little difference for a rogue with few life points. I even walked around in the Archon's Robes for some time because I didn't even bother with the few STR points for the Felon's Coat.
And the attack speed with longswords sucks. I've tried and gone back to daggers immediately. This makes the damage runes more effective as well.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 janvier 2010 - 04:41 .

[JTBehnke]

The reason I put 22 Strength was so I could equip the Cadash Stompers.

And what runes work best for a rogue of this kind anyway?

Modifié par JTBehnke, 07 janvier 2010 - 05:01 .

[Br0th3rGr1mm]

Since you can activate Momentum at anytime (and it's the real DPS booster in a backstabbing Rogue build), stamina is not that important.

Any Rogue planning to deal damage should rush to get Momentum ASAP and use it as often as possible.  Pump Dex from the start and you can usually get it before reaching Ostagar.

JTBehnke wrote...

The reason I put 22 Strength was so I could equip the Cadash Stompers.
,,,,,,

Helm of Honleath is a better reason....you really want to wear boots that draws enemy attention to you?

Modifié par Br0th3rGr1mm, 07 janvier 2010 - 06:12 .

[rikkles]

Dual-wield daggers with a balanced dex-cun.

Get momentum ASAP, and fill with runes, especially paralysis.

That's all you need to know

[JTBehnke]

Br0th3rGr1mm wrote...

Since you can activate Momentum at anytime (and it's the real DPS booster in a backstabbing Rogue build), stamina is not that important.

Any Rogue planning to deal damage should rush to get Momentum ASAP and use it as often as possible.  Pump Dex from the start and you can usually get it before reaching Ostagar.

JTBehnke wrote...

The reason I put 22 Strength was so I could equip the Cadash Stompers.
,,,,,,

Helm of Honleath is a better reason....you really want to wear boots that draws enemy attention to you?

I was told the Cadash Stompers were pretty good.  By that logic, they're useless, since rogues are really the only ones who wear light armor throughout the game, and they try to minimize threat, and no self-respecting warrior, who depend on generating threat, wears light armor.

And the Helm of Honnleath is a massive helmet, so wouldn't that generate more threat as well, along with carrying more fatigue?

Do runes stack?  I see no point in obtaining more than two paralysis runes, one for each dagger, if the chance to paralyze doesn't stack.  Maybe throwing some slow runes or maybe silverite would be good too.  Paralysis isn't the only rune out there.

Modifié par JTBehnke, 07 janvier 2010 - 06:29 .

[JTBehnke]

Well, I started the character. Jarnsaxa Brosca. So far the lineup looks like this:



Rogue Tree

1-0-0-0

1-0-0-0

1-0-0-0

1-0-0-0



Dual Weapon Tree

1-0-0-0

0-0-0-0

0-0-0-0



And here are my stats...



Strength: 11

Dexterity: 20

Willpower: 12

Magic: 10

Cunning: 20

Constitution: 12



Am I doin' it right?

[Haplose]

JTBehnke wrote...

Br0th3rGr1mm wrote...

Since you can activate Momentum at anytime (and it's the real DPS booster in a backstabbing Rogue build), stamina is not that important.

Any Rogue planning to deal damage should rush to get Momentum ASAP and use it as often as possible.  Pump Dex from the start and you can usually get it before reaching Ostagar.

JTBehnke wrote...

The reason I put 22 Strength was so I could equip the Cadash Stompers.
,,,,,,

Helm of Honleath is a better reason....you really want to wear boots that draws enemy attention to you?

I was told the Cadash Stompers were pretty good.  By that logic, they're useless, since rogues are really the only ones who wear light armor throughout the game, and they try to minimize threat, and no self-respecting warrior, who depend on generating threat, wears light armor.

And the Helm of Honnleath is a massive helmet, so wouldn't that generate more threat as well, along with carrying more fatigue?

Do runes stack?  I see no point in obtaining more than two paralysis runes, one for each dagger, if the chance to paralyze doesn't stack.  Maybe throwing some slow runes or maybe silverite would be good too.  Paralysis isn't the only rune out there.

The Fatigue and Threat from the Helmet alone shouldn't be very noticeable.

Rather then Cadash Stompers, which generate extra Threat, I would wear Bard's Dancing Shoes that reduce treat (and add 6! Defence... was it?).
Before getting Andruil's Blessing I would likely wear a belt that reduces Threat as well.

As for rune choices, I haven't played much
with the Paralysis, so I don't know one way or the other. From what I
heard, the results are not spectacular.
Anyway, if you plan on mostly backstabbing (and as a melee Rogue you should!), the game currently has a feauture/bug that only mainhand runes apply damage/process effects on-hit when backstabbing. So you will want all your damage/Paralysis runes in the main-hand weapon. Offhand should be only used for passives, like Hale (Physical Resist) or Dweomer (Magic Resist) Runes.

Modifié par Haplose, 08 janvier 2010 - 06:44 .