140 réponses à ce sujet

[Malfurus]

Bioware...I'm slightly disappointed with you. In fact I don't think you gave this much thought and I hope you remedy the problem in the future. Please, for lore sake, for balancing sake, for making sense sake, disallow some specializations and/or spells once others of the contradictory nature are learned. Why would a a Blood Mage, who uses dark and evil magic be allowed to also learn the ways of a Spirit Healer, one that draws power from the benevolent, benevolent being the key word, spirits of the fade? That doesn't add up in my mind. Can you do something about that please? 

[Sisimka]

You're assuming blood mages are inherently evil...

Modifié par Sisimka, 06 janvier 2010 - 10:26 .

[wonko33]

Do you really care that people you don't know, in their living room, are choosing to play their mages that way? Do you really think Bioware should pull their limited resources to "fix" something that in your opinion should not be in the game when you can just choose not to pick these two specializations on the same character? Why would it matter to you that other people would?

[Viglin]

Malfurus wrote...

Bioware...I'm slightly disappointed with you. In fact I don't think you gave this much thought and I hope you remedy the problem in the future. Please, for lore sake, for balancing sake, for making sense sake, disallow some specializations and/or spells once others of the contradictory nature are learned. Why would a a Blood Mage, who uses dark and evil magic be allowed to also learn the ways of a Spirit Healer, one that draws power from the benevolent, benevolent being the key word, spirits of the fade? That doesn't add up in my mind. Can you do something about that please? 

What exactly is evil about Blood Magic....hell, from what lve seen, its kinda lame. Its basically just another power source.

Animating Dead ld have considered evil..and thats a normal spell. Or you know, the spells that cause bodies to explode....hexes....list goes on.

And your "for the sake of balancing"...quite amusing considering the Cleric thread you have running.

[Sarielle]

-nod- Some of a blood mage's power comes from their own blood...sacrificing a little of their life to destroy darkspawn doesn't sound inherently evil to me.

[Schneidend]

Blood magic isn't inherently "dark" or "evil." It merely turns life energy into mana, and allows one to manipulate that life energy in turn. It's just another school of magic that happens to be forbidden because it is potentially dangerous. In the wrong hands, blood magic could conquer an entire nation from the shadows, true, but in the wrong hands a sword can murder innocents and a fireball spell can set an entire town ablaze.

[JackDresden]

blood magic is considered evil by the chantry and involves drawing life force to power your magic and to control the bodies of other through there blood. If any of the spirits of the fade are offended by blood magic is highly unlikley, for a number of reasons.



1. Except for demons who are spirits centred around certain strong human emotions most spirits are fairly unconcerned about mortal affairs, certainly healing spirits aren't followers of the chantry religion.



2. Healing spirits deal with life force as does blood magic, on converts life force to power magic and the other magical (spirit energy) to power life, rather than contradictory you could see those as two sides of the same coin.



3. Healing spirits don't themselves have blood and so are not subject to blood magic so would probably hardly be concerned with it at all.



I understand the old D&D concept of having taking some schools of magic make you oppose others but I don't see how that applies here.



Blood magic could ultimatley be used for positive goals, it's no more evil than the creation or entropic spells in some ways, some would consider immolating a bunch of people evil after all, others would consider raising the corpse of fallen foes to server you evil, or hexing someone e.g. giving them the evil eye.



of course if you consider that blood magic is absolutley eveil and you shouldn't be able to take both because it doesn't fit you view then don't, simple as that and pretend you can't.

[Sarielle]

Right. I wouldn't take it on my mage because Sarielle is by and large a lawful character (to borrow DnD terms); there are few things that would make her deviate from "the rules." But I don't think even she would consider it universally evil.

[Viglin]

Sarielle wrote...

Right. I wouldn't take it on my mage because Sarielle is by and large a lawful character (to borrow DnD terms); there are few things that would make her deviate from "the rules." But I don't think even she would consider it universally evil.

See, player choice. Most "problems" in the game can be fix just by the player making choices...instead of demaning changes like the OP.

[Sloth Of Doom]

I think JackDresden has summed it up fairly well. Just because a rather extremist church (the chantry) sees blood magic as 'evil' doesn't mean that it is considered to be that way everywhere in the world, or that spirits give a crap what the mortal races think is god or evil.



In fact, chantry doctrine states that magic itself is neither good nor evil, but a gift from the Maker that must be used responsibly. It doesn't have a legaleeze paragraph at the back of all the holy texts excluding blood magic. The aversion to blood magic is of human manufactre.

[Zaisha_temp]

Another thing to consider: Blood Magic may be a "demon thing" (that's where the knowledge originates from and where a lot of rhe NPC blood mage stuff focusses on) but I've seen absolutly NO indication that Demons and "normal" spirits are in conflict with eachother. There are even occasions where they can be seen cohabiting quite happily without any conflict.



Short version: "Normal" spirits don't care if you do evil demon stuff.

[HolyRomanCousinConsort]

The old mage lady with the fine rack believes that blood magic is evil due to its ability to control others. I can see why she and her fellow Ferelden would think that, seeing that their country frowns on freedom infringements. Consider their national view of slavery, their society of free holders as well as their monarch that lacks absolute power.

From a player's perspective, I think blood magic is very fun.

Modifié par HolyRomanCousinConsort, 06 janvier 2010 - 10:50 .

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

What disappoints me about blood magic is that there is no repercussions on ANY character for taking it.  You can even make the most ardent anti-blood mage speaker, Wynne, a blood mage and her in game dialogue being all anti-blood mage doesn't change.

[Malfurus]

Viglin wrote...

Malfurus wrote...

Bioware...I'm slightly disappointed with you. In fact I don't think you gave this much thought and I hope you remedy the problem in the future. Please, for lore sake, for balancing sake, for making sense sake, disallow some specializations and/or spells once others of the contradictory nature are learned. Why would a a Blood Mage, who uses dark and evil magic be allowed to also learn the ways of a Spirit Healer, one that draws power from the benevolent, benevolent being the key word, spirits of the fade? That doesn't add up in my mind. Can you do something about that please? 

What exactly is evil about Blood Magic....hell, from what lve seen, its kinda lame. Its basically just another power source.

Animating Dead ld have considered evil..and thats a normal spell. Or you know, the spells that cause bodies to explode....hexes....list goes on.

And your "for the sake of balancing"...quite amusing considering the Cleric thread you have running.

That makes no sense, my Cleric post and this post have nothing in common so how about you lay off ya? Cool. And Blood Magic IS evil. I'm sorry, but being able to control the will of others, or sacrificing a bunch of elf slaves so you can increase your own health...what exactly would you call that if not evil? Or are you going to sit there and justify it? psh. And sure I can choose not pick it and play the game, so would you tell people to not have complained about the dexterity issue with rogues and just not play one? My point is that its something that was overlooked and needs to be fixed in my opinion. I play RPG games for lore sake, and when I think that something is out of place it kinda makes me itch. I'm explaining to you why its evil explain to me how its not? Or do you just like to argue for the sake of arguing? ITS MY OPINION. 

I mean honestly, if you can explain to me how Blood Magic is NOT evil, and that somehow Lore wise you should have the ability be able to be a Spirit Healer and Blood Mage, then maybe you'll sway me into your way of thinking. Otherwise, I stand by what I posted. 

[Malfurus]

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

What disappoints me about blood magic is that there is no repercussions on ANY character for taking it.  You can even make the most ardent anti-blood mage speaker, Wynne, a blood mage and her in game dialogue being all anti-blood mage doesn't change.

Thank you thank you thank you! A great point! 

[Sarielle]

HolyRomanCousinConsort wrote...

The old mage lady with the fine rack ...

I just almost snorted my drink out my nose at work. Thanks.

[Viglin]

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

What disappoints me about blood magic is that there is no repercussions on ANY character for taking it.  You can even make the most ardent anti-blood mage speaker, Wynne, a blood mage and her in game dialogue being all anti-blood mage doesn't change.

Thats poor game design there, where Player Choice is almost forced on you, especially if your a roleplayer.

Id have loved to have her say "Makes Breath noooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!"

[HolyRomanCousinConsort]

Sarielle wrote...

HolyRomanCousinConsort wrote...

The old mage lady with the fine rack ...

I just almost snorted my drink out my nose at work. Thanks.

I had to use a description to avoid giving out spoilers 

[Schneidend]

Blood Magic doesn't have to come from the life energies of unwilling participants. Your allies could willing sacrifice some of their vitality, and of course the blood mage can always give of themselves to power their magic. Is that not the way of the Grey Wardens, to make the ultimate sacrifices for the greater good? How is controlling the mind of an assassin or darkspawn any more "evil" than burning them alive with a cone-shaped gout of flame?

[Sarielle]

Malfurus wrote...

I mean honestly, if you can explain to me how Blood Magic is NOT evil, and that somehow Lore wise you should have the ability be able to be a Spirit Healer and Blood Mage, then maybe you'll sway me into your way of thinking. Otherwise, I stand by what I posted. 

I think someone actually already posted a very good argument about how it's not evil. While I know people are very sensitive about the idea of loss of free will, I would agree the spirits probably don't have the same sort of morality we do and that really it's no less inhumane than building a towering inferno where somebody's standing.

I mean hell. That hurts. Or what about the nightmare spells, those also deal with your will...

No different imo. But this has been said much better than I did in this thread already

[HolyRomanCousinConsort]

It's fun when you use Blood Sacrifice on your Dwarf friend, and it says RESISTED! But you still get healed. That's when my blood mage enters a power trip and starts cackling madly.

[wonko33]

Yes, on the other hand I do agree that there should be more story repercussions about becoming a blood mage. But I still think it is ridiculous to ask bioware to make them mutually exclusive. There are no "magical" restrictions to learning both, depending on your roleplay there might be some philosophical reasons not to, but hey if your character's personality makes these two incompatible don't pick them together.

Modifié par wonko33, 06 janvier 2010 - 11:00 .

[Khayness]

Everything is potentially evil.



Healing my party, going oom, then switching blood magic to save us by blowing stuff up worked fine for me, In RP sense I just wanted more power to help those around me. Everything is potentially good aswell

[JackDresden]

Malfurus wrote...

 And Blood Magic IS evil. I'm sorry, but being able to control the will of others, or sacrificing a bunch of elf slaves so you can increase your own health...what exactly would you call that if not evil? Or are you going to sit there and justify it? psh. And sure I can choose not pick it and play the game, so would you tell people to not have complained about the dexterity issue with rogues and just not play one? My point is that its something that was overlooked and needs to be fixed in my opinion. I play RPG games for lore sake, and when I think that something is out of place it kinda makes me itch. I'm explaining to you why its evil explain to me how its not? Or do you just like to argue for the sake of arguing? ITS MY OPINION. 

I mean honestly, if you can explain to me how Blood Magic is NOT evil, and that somehow Lore wise you should have the ability be able to be a Spirit Healer and Blood Mage, then maybe you'll sway me into your way of thinking. Otherwise, I stand by what I posted. 

Conversly can you explain why a spell that lets you set fire to a room full of people is not evil? Or one that lets me crush some one in a cage of force of make their head explode them raise their corpse to do my will?

You would argue it depends how you use it right? The same can be said for blood magic, I can suck the life from a room full of slaves to power my magic or give some of my own life force to power it. I can use blood control to turn a king into my toy or to make a dark spawn who is about to slaughter a child instead turn and defend them from the other darkspawn lore wise anyway. The fact that many Mages who learn blood magic use it in an evil way doesn't make the power itself evil.

[Viglin]

Malfurus wrote...

Viglin wrote...

Malfurus wrote...

Bioware...I'm slightly disappointed with you. In fact I don't think you gave this much thought and I hope you remedy the problem in the future. Please, for lore sake, for balancing sake, for making sense sake, disallow some specializations and/or spells once others of the contradictory nature are learned. Why would a a Blood Mage, who uses dark and evil magic be allowed to also learn the ways of a Spirit Healer, one that draws power from the benevolent, benevolent being the key word, spirits of the fade? That doesn't add up in my mind. Can you do something about that please? 

What exactly is evil about Blood Magic....hell, from what lve seen, its kinda lame. Its basically just another power source.

Animating Dead ld have considered evil..and thats a normal spell. Or you know, the spells that cause bodies to explode....hexes....list goes on.

And your "for the sake of balancing"...quite amusing considering the Cleric thread you have running.

That makes no sense, my Cleric post and this post have nothing in common so how about you lay off ya? Cool. And Blood Magic IS evil. I'm sorry, but being able to control the will of others, or sacrificing a bunch of elf slaves so you can increase your own health...what exactly would you call that if not evil? Or are you going to sit there and justify it? psh. And sure I can choose not pick it and play the game, so would you tell people to not have complained about the dexterity issue with rogues and just not play one? My point is that its something that was overlooked and needs to be fixed in my opinion. I play RPG games for lore sake, and when I think that something is out of place it kinda makes me itch. I'm explaining to you why its evil explain to me how its not? Or do you just like to argue for the sake of arguing? ITS MY OPINION. 

I mean honestly, if you can explain to me how Blood Magic is NOT evil, and that somehow Lore wise you should have the ability be able to be a Spirit Healer and Blood Mage, then maybe you'll sway me into your way of thinking. Otherwise, I stand by what I posted. 

Can you explain to me why Animating the Dead,causing Bodies to explode, Hexing people...isnt evil?[And Yes, l noticed you skipped that part].

Controlling the will of others..you mean like...hmm Charm Person like spell?
Sarcficing slaves...hell yes thats evil, but thats chosen by that caster...not the magic itself.

Can you show me where using Blood Magic turns you into an uncontrolable evil being....or some simple fool like Jowan?
If a "normal" mage cast a Fireball into a crowd of children..would you say he was evil..or the power source?
Its not the Blood Magic thats evil or good...its the user.

Lore wise..like why their should not be overbalancing Clerics in a world were there is no real gods?
Like that you mean?