140 réponses à ce sujet

[padewan0913]

Whailor wrote...

Semantics. There's nothing evil in the "tool", but how one uses it.

Yeaaaa.... but he seems to hink only in game logic.... :/

SO! I present an in-game quote that says the same...
"Do you blame the sword, or the swordsman?"-Master Ignacio

So do you blame the magic or the mage?

[soteria]

Hmm... replace all the references in this thread to magic with references to guns or knives. Heh.

[IAN9786]

Modifié par IAN9786, 21 février 2010 - 05:36 .

[IAN9786]

I'm gonna RP here. Andraste (spelling) said magic should serve man, not rule over them when she struck down the Tervinter Imperium. Magister Lords of Tervinter have used blood magic at many occasions, and as we all know the TI are evil because they are (in the chantry version) the reason for darkspawn. Even the woman that ordered the death of Andraste (spelling) had been said that she used blood magic. Though the chant of light sad this (and i am in the middle of BM and anti-BM) they have no right to go around saying BM is wrong, for turning their own kind into crazy mindless, mage-hunting, hypocrites by making them drink lyrium is nothing diffrent. The chantry makes templars use magic, though not in the way mages do. And in what way is hunting down, or locking up people in a tower "that looks like a phallus" <_

Modifié par IAN9786, 21 février 2010 - 11:05 .

[IAN9786]

^Oh and btw Morrigan prob saved u with BM allistar

[kasanza]

Blood Magic and Spirit Healers DO GO TOGEATHER. Both are from spirits from the fade. Maybe those spirits have different interest (one is interested in living the lives of material world beings while the other isn't) but both are supposedly the Maker's first children. So really not that big of a deal. Blood Mages don't Have to use others to power their magic, they can use their own blood (that's all my mage ever does to use Blood Wound). And Blood Wound doesn't seem anymore nefarious than a fireball. It really depends on the mage and how they use their magic. Jowan didn't seem evil, he just decided to get on Logain's side rather than the "rebels." I know my Warden wasn't above slaying people he'd never met before (Derelection of Duty quest, anyone?). I didn't blame Jowan or anyone in the game for their decisions. It's a terrible political-play time going on during the Dragon Age. It's just rough.

[IAN9786]

Cybercat999 wrote...

I see none here forcing you to play Blood Mage, Malfurus, so please restrain yourself from trying to force Bioware to make the game the way YOU think it should be made.
I am happy being evil. Bite me.

Agreed:devil:

And BM does have to do with demons. U summon em when u want. And secondly wynne is being kept alive posibly by a demmon so she shouldnt b*** about things like this. And rhirdly Malfurus kiss my blood mage ass cuz if u don't like blood mages and spirit healers being abillities of one same person DONT BE THE SAME SPEC. Y is that so difficult to comprehend

Modifié par IAN9786, 21 février 2010 - 11:09 .

[renokun]

OP needs to stop adopting myopic, simple-minded views on blood magic.



The 3 mages I've played through DA with often die because I sacrificed their last drop of health to cast a final heal or group heal (spirit healer skill too) on Alistair or some other favourite companions so that they can prevail and win the day.



I sacrificed my pc's life to help and save others and his friends, to battle darkspawn and save Ferelden. Now how is that evil??



Blood magic can go with spirit healing, they are all forms of magic. Magic is a tool. It isn't evil, it has no inherent morality. Just like knives, guns or chainsaws, or other weapons and tools.



The Chantry wants everyone to think that blood magic (or magic in general) is evil because they are afraid of it, and because they do not wield that power. It threatens their religion and has the potential to jeopardize their organization. That is why they created the templars to deal with mages, enslaving men with lyrium addiction and depriving them of normal happy lives and the chance to start a family through vows, oaths and the lyrium control.



So who is the evil one now?

[Bardox9]

I think of the BM/SH build as a "Life Mage" for role playing purposes. They can tranform magic into life giving energies and take life to enhance their magics. "I'll heal you today if I can use you as a battery tomorrow" type of thing.

[AtomicWillow]

My second character is a blood mage/spirit healer. It's great for tight situations when I don't have the mana and it would take too long to pop a lyrium potion.



As for the morality issues, I really see none. I don't believe the spirits of the Fade define themselves as good or evil. Remember Valor? He was ready to kill you if you couldn't defeat him for a staff... Yet he would be one of those "good" spirits.

[Nimander]

I agree that Blood Magic is not, at present, inherently 'evil'. It's certainly true that the only way to get it (as the PC) is to do a bad thing. However, there were books in the Mage Tower -- Irving had them -- which implies that you can just pick up a book and learn it. It may or may not have originally come from demons -- I don't recall whether the Codex says it.

However, I can see how most people would think otherwise. Pretty much all Blood Magicians we meet are evil, with the exception of Jowan. Who's ... just kind of stupid. One might suggest that the Dalish Keeper guy was one too (I'm being vague as this is non-spoiler area), but he's not acknowledged as one. Heck, he could be a Blood Mage/Spirit Healer, with what he did.

I *like* that Blood Mages aren't, in the lore, automatically evil. I hope they keep it this way, rather than making a Dark Side-esque thing and making them evil. It's more interesting to me if it's just power, but with its focus it's power that evil dudes like to pursue so a majority of the practitioners are evil.

, too, am hoping for a 'good' blood mage in the game (other than the PC). Maybe someone from Awakening will be one, who knows?

Modifié par Nimander, 09 mars 2010 - 10:11 .

[Haasth]

Sisimka wrote...

You're assuming blood mages are inherently evil...

This. My first mage is quite a 'goodie two shoes', a Blood Mage and a Spirit Healer. I see absolutely no problem with this. Might be worth noting that, at least in my story, he gained his Blood Magic through study and not weird rituals with Demons... So pretty much like Jowan did it, I suppose (At least, that is how I take it Jowan learned it... with those books hidden away now). Other than that, gameplay wise it is a great combination. Possibly one of the better healer combinations you can go for.  And beyond that I just quite like the idea of Blood Magic... frowned upon, not necessarily evil. Will make people think you're evil. Incredibly powerful and full of knowledge. Can be used for various ways - good and evil... Hell, it can extend your lifespan significantly. I'm not passing that up. 

The end justifies the means? 

Modifié par Haasth, 09 mars 2010 - 10:26 .

[Last Darkness]

Evil Healers......one word "Extorsion" in all RPG games I play, particularly MMOs im probably the most selfing, douche bag healer youve ever met. On the flip side im also one of the most skilled and active ones. Ive been know many times to charge for my services and to leave bad groups. As a healer you have alot of power.

[NoAngel89]

the combination goes really well to me, the chantry consider....... its evil, of course the lore of the game, tevinters were an empire of blood mages, and blood mages where the one who started this darkspawn mess, by breaking into the black city, if my lore is right, I can see why you consider them evil. But blood magic, like its name, takes power from blood, sacrificing life/health for your powers, anyway both classes seem to be learned from the fade, from spirits, so from that sense, they're kinda the same. But why I think they work so well is that, when you out of mana, you have your back up juice, your blood to fuel your spells, now honestly, a spirtual healer, can be a heavy class, that relies on mana, so blood mage class is a perfect backup, to give alittle abit extra to oooff to the healer.

[Haasth]

And technically... Wouldn't you be capable of restoring your own wounds? Wounds you have just created to fuel your magic?

[NoAngel89]

padewan0913 wrote...

Whailor wrote...

Semantics. There's nothing evil in the "tool", but how one uses it.

Yeaaaa.... but he seems to hink only in game logic.... :/

SO! I present an in-game quote that says the same...
"Do you blame the sword, or the swordsman?"-Master Ignacio

So do you blame the magic or the mage?

well considering how you learn it, I guess its supposed to be considered evil. Still its useful

[Haasth]

NoAngel89 wrote...

padewan0913 wrote...

Whailor wrote...

Semantics. There's nothing evil in the "tool", but how one uses it.

Yeaaaa.... but he seems to hink only in game logic.... :/

SO! I present an in-game quote that says the same...
"Do you blame the sword, or the swordsman?"-Master Ignacio

So do you blame the magic or the mage?

well considering how you learn it, I guess its supposed to be considered evil. Still its useful

The way you are technically taught it in-game is quite sinister, yes. That said, if you can imagine beyond the boundaries of the game there are various 'not so sinister' or 'neutral' ways to learn Blood Magic. I never make that deal with the demon, and mostly pick up Blood Magic. 

[NoAngel89]

Haasth wrote...

NoAngel89 wrote...

padewan0913 wrote...

Whailor wrote...

Semantics. There's nothing evil in the "tool", but how one uses it.

Yeaaaa.... but he seems to hink only in game logic.... :/

SO! I present an in-game quote that says the same...
"Do you blame the sword, or the swordsman?"-Master Ignacio

So do you blame the magic or the mage?

well considering how you learn it, I guess its supposed to be considered evil. Still its useful

The way you are technically taught it in-game is quite sinister, yes. That said, if you can imagine beyond the boundaries of the game there are various 'not so sinister' or 'neutral' ways to learn Blood Magic. I never make that deal with the demon, and mostly pick up Blood Magic. 

lol I wonder if there are other ways you can learn it, that doesn't reguire a demon

[NoAngel89]

Haasth wrote...

And technically... Wouldn't you be capable of restoring your own wounds? Wounds you have just created to fuel your magic?

uhhh yeah, but I think the reload time, would still let the blood magic drain your health

[NoAngel89]

Haasth wrote...

Sisimka wrote...

You're assuming blood mages are inherently evil...

This. My first mage is quite a 'goodie two shoes', a Blood Mage and a Spirit Healer. I see absolutely no problem with this. Might be worth noting that, at least in my story, he gained his Blood Magic through study and not weird rituals with Demons... So pretty much like Jowan did it, I suppose (At least, that is how I take it Jowan learned it... with those books hidden away now). Other than that, gameplay wise it is a great combination. Possibly one of the better healer combinations you can go for.  And beyond that I just quite like the idea of Blood Magic... frowned upon, not necessarily evil. Will make people think you're evil. Incredibly powerful and full of knowledge. Can be used for various ways - good and evil... Hell, it can extend your lifespan significantly. I'm not passing that up. 

The end justifies the means? 

lol sounds like you have the DLC, is that the only way you learn it?

[Damar Stiehl]

Don't listen to the Chantry propaganda.

The mages of Tevinter fell not because they used blood magic, but because they let the power they attained corrupt them. You cross the line not by casting a blood spell, but by deciding that using your fellow man as a mana battery is perfectly acceptable and normal. Of course, there's the matter of them offending the Maker and corrupting the Golden City, but...

The Maker can be a grand lie, by the way. The great, silent, offended god could be real or it could be just a fabrication (like real-life Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, etc.. Many people believe, but I haven't heard of a single instance of water being turned into wine lately). Andraste was a very inspired leader, perhaps because she was plum-crazy, and the Chantry built upon the foundation she laid down. There just might be absolutely nothing to their propaganda.

[I Valente I]

When you look at it from an objective point of view, it's obvious that blood magic is meant to be evil. I mean, it has all the ingredients of being the magic of choice of some diabolical snidlely whiplash-like mage. Whether or not it actually IS evil, well as stated before, that can be argued to death. In fact, some of these arguments are kind of like saying "Nuclear bombs aren't evil because you don't HAVE to use them to kill anyone." Which is sort of true...but also sort of reaching. Logic can only take you so far.

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

Never whether they go together or not. What's important is any of you actually had Wynne become a Blood Mage? Seriously, guys?

[lqutois]

Like has been said you are missing one of the major points of the game there is NO absolute good or evil just choices and consequences.  Yes the CHANTRY believes that blood magic is inherently evil, but like the modern catholic church the chantry does not at all have the corner on truth.  They are different aspects of fade powers and if you were a student of the fade then it would behoove you to understand both sides of the coin would it not?  This isn't a star wars gave so light and dark sides don't apply (but I've always thought a true student of the force should study both...).  

Also we are grey wardens we do what is nessecary if that means using both of what some people in their ignorance might think of as contridictory powers than so be it!  (Did you pick up the tower dlc?  It had some other great moral chocies that showed how the game was never meant to be simple)

Like REAL LIFE the game isn't black and white but only ligher or darker shades of gray.  ((all bioware games are like this just so you know...is this your first game from them))

[mousestalker]

I've been thinking over this issue off and on for about four months. I think the OP may have a point, but not in the way he meant.



Blood Magic and Spirit Healing do not go well together. The Blood Magic spells all have a reddish brown theme to them (blood, go figure). While the Spirit Healing Spells are all restful blues. Put side by side they really do clash. If you had a house you would not use those shades to decorate it. Similarly, a car with those tones would really look grotesque.



So the OP does have a point.