140 réponses à ce sujet

[sarx8172]

Wynne actually was supposed to comment on blood magic at one point in the game. If the PC was a Blood Mage after the Circle Tower questline, then she was supposed to confront them about it at the end, and it could have escalated into a fight. It is not in the vanilla game however, due to bugs in the script and all that other good stuff. But it was supposed to be there.



And I always make Wynne a blood mage just for lulz. Although I personally dislike playing Blood Mages, they just seem like way too much hassle for my tastes. I do it for the passive bonuses for taking the specialization.

[DragonShepard138]

It does come in handy to use blood wound and also when mana goes faster than health. Basically it can give you two mana bars in theory. Just early in the game don't use it too often without health potions, and you may want to really watch over your health. Use it wisely and its a powerful tool. I'm proud to be a blood mage with all the evilness muhaahahahah lol .

[TriggerHappy64]

Boredmad wrote...
Outside the original source of Blood Magic being the less savory spirits of the fade how is the school anymore evil than any other. There are spells that alter the enemies mind, drain health, and drain residual life energy within Entropy, magi can animate the dead using spirit, kill with primal and arcane, and even creation has less savory spells. Each and every school of magic can be used for good and evil. Blood Magic is no different it's a tool no different than any other. It isn't inherently evil no more than a sword is inherently evil how it is used is completely up to the user.

You make a good point but once you include the source of the magic, demons, who are decidedly evil in this game, you cannot compare it with a sword or any other type of magic.  As for the OP I really don't give a crap.. people can do what they want.

[Boredmad]

TriggerHappy64 wrote...

You make a good point but once you include the source of the magic, demons, who are decidedly evil in this game, you cannot compare it with a sword or any other type of magic.  As for the OP I really don't give a crap.. people can do what they want.

An in what way does the source matter. This isn't Star Wars and Blood Magic isn't the Dark Side. Like all the other schools Blood Magic is merely a tool to be used as the user sees fit nothing more. Its not like the Blood Mage has a little demon setting on his or her shoulder telling them what to do. At most Blood Magic when it comes to demons is a sort of elaborate trap. Blood Magic is powerful one instant in the game illustrates this quite handily, but another illustrates that normally its useless against demons.

[CybAnt1]

Is the Sacrifice Blood Magic spell evil? That's the one I have the biggest problem with. Blood Wound is just an AoE. Can't see why it's any more "evil" than Death Cloud. As for Blood Control, well, I've given my piece on this before. I don't see what's necessarily MORE "evil" to control someone's mind for a short period of time, as opposed to, oh, I don't know, freezing them into an ice cube and shattering them into dozens of pieces, but again, maybe that's just me.



Sacrifice vampirizes health from one of your companions to give it to you.



Personally, I think if you use it, they should get a 1 point approval drop, at least. Like "well, thanks Warden, for slurping up some of my lifeforce like a slurpee, and screwing me over to save your own life."

[Sabriana]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Is the Sacrifice Blood Magic spell evil? That's the one I have the biggest problem with. Blood Wound is just an AoE. Can't see why it's any more "evil" than Death Cloud. As for Blood Control, well, I've given my piece on this before. I don't see what's necessarily MORE "evil" to control someone's mind for a short period of time, as opposed to, oh, I don't know, freezing them into an ice cube and shattering them into dozens of pieces, but again, maybe that's just me.

Sacrifice vampirizes health from one of your companions to give it to you.

Personally, I think if you use it, they should get a 1 point approval drop, at least. Like "well, thanks Warden, for slurping up some of my lifeforce like a slurpee, and screwing me over to save your own life."

Yes, from all companions, including those the ranger spec can get you. Get the enemies under control, use the ranger's little helper, turn blood magic off, throw a group health. Perfect.

[AsheraII]

Blood magic doesn't bite spirit healer, it's as simple as that. Now if there were a demonology specialization, then things would be more complicated.

[CybAnt1]

The question I'm asking is more philosophical than tactical.



The definition that some use of evil is exploiting others and making them suffer for your own benefit.



Is this not what Sacrifice does? It makes others suffer (they lose health) so that you benefit (you gain their stolen health). Please note a lot of other PoB and Reaver abilities make you sacrifice your OWN health for some other benefit. This one steals from others. (And who are living, not dead, unlike Death Magic or Devour, and who are your friends, allies & companions.)



Would you not concur, given this, that of the three blood magic spells, it's the most "evil"?

[Sabriana]

I find no evil in using the ranger's summoned creature. Especially because my blood mage always follows it up with a healing spell.

[TriggerHappy64]

Boredmad wrote...

TriggerHappy64 wrote...

You make a good point but once you include the source of the magic, demons, who are decidedly evil in this game, you cannot compare it with a sword or any other type of magic.  As for the OP I really don't give a crap.. people can do what they want.

An in what way does the source matter. This isn't Star Wars and Blood Magic isn't the Dark Side. Like all the other schools Blood Magic is merely a tool to be used as the user sees fit nothing more. Its not like the Blood Mage has a little demon setting on his or her shoulder telling them what to do. At most Blood Magic when it comes to demons is a sort of elaborate trap. Blood Magic is powerful one instant in the game illustrates this quite handily, but another illustrates that normally its useless against demons.

Well you're ignoring the lore and the story setting entirely then if that's your viewpoint because it is an RPG afterall.  I don't even understand why you're bringing in a comparison to Star Wars... I never said there was some clear good/evil distinction in the game (well, there is with the darkspawn) and that universe is entirely different.  We're talking about a school of magic and not something that polarizes the entire game universe.

You deciding for yourself that blood magic is just a "tool" doesn't mean that that's how blood magic would be interpreted by the people of Thedas.  Since the story sets up blood magic as a forbidden practice in a world that's already suspicious of magic, it's the shared sentiment of the population that blood magic is an "evil" thing.  And, as we know, many things in that world or any world are interpreted as such according to the opinion of the majority.  After the brutal rule of the Tevinter Imperium using blood magic against the populace, I'm sure many have it firmly entrenched in their minds what awful things that school of magic is capable of.  I mean, from a gaming standpoint, sure it's useful.. you use health instead of mana, but from an RPG perspective.. you're sacrificing people's life force, that or your own, when one could use any number of other spells that just use mana instead.  I don't know about you but I imagine that would be a painful experience.

The main difference between your argument and mine if you read between the lines is that in my opinion, I am being conscious of the game's social views towards that school of magic, while your views are much less attached to the atmosphere and ideas presented by the story.  You may think of blood magic as a means to an end, but then, if the world of Thedas was as dynamic as our own, in the eyes of the majority, your actions would be questionable.

Tl;dr -  You can RPG the game or you can choose not to, each has their own experiences.

Modifié par TriggerHappy64, 05 avril 2010 - 06:00 .

[Boredmad]

TriggerHappy64 wrote...

Well you're ignoring the lore and the story setting entirely then if that's your viewpoint because it is an RPG afterall.  I don't even understand why you're bringing in a comparison to Star Wars... I never said there was some clear good/evil distinction in the game (well, there is with the darkspawn) and that universe is entirely different.  We're talking about a school of magic and not something that polarizes the entire game universe.

You deciding for yourself that blood magic is just a "tool" doesn't mean that that's how blood magic would be interpreted by the people of Thedas.  Since the story sets up blood magic as a forbidden practice in a world that's already suspicious of magic, it's the shared sentiment of the population that blood magic is an "evil" thing.  And, as we know, many things in that world or any world are interpreted as such according to the opinion of the majority.  After the brutal rule of the Tevinter Imperium using blood magic against the populace, I'm sure many have it firmly entrenched in their minds what awful things that school of magic is capable of.  I mean, from a gaming standpoint, sure it's useful.. you use health instead of mana, but from an RPG perspective.. you're sacrificing people's life force, that or your own, when one could use any number of other spells that just use mana instead.  I don't know about you but I imagine that would be a painful experience.

The main difference between your argument and mine if you read between the lines is that in my opinion, I am being conscious of the game's social views towards that school of magic, while your views are much less attached to the atmosphere and ideas presented by the story.  You may think of blood magic as a means to an end, but then, if the world of Thedas was as dynamic as our own, in the eyes of the majority, your actions would be questionable.

Tl;dr -  You can RPG the game or you can choose not to, each has their own experiences.

So since the Chantry and populace thinks Blood Magic is evil, or since its been used for evil you believe the school is evil by default. That’s rather naïve and a not the best of analogues. The Chantry is not the in game group that I’d base morality of the games aspects around. For examples not to give spoilers I’m merely going to reverence in game events.

We’ve seen Blood Magic used in game whether in the main quest or the DLC content and the results of this use of the forbidden school of magic. During the Mage origin there is the earliest example of Blood  Magic being used that one can encounter. Blood Magic in this instance was inspired on the individual based on its power and obvious concept, but the event during the origin where Blood Magic was used was purely for self defense. Another event during the Circle quest later on though the event spirals out of control and ends with near destruction or destruction of the tower depending on your choices this event of the use of Blood Magic was retaliation. The Chantry’s abuse of the magi through there radical believes usually by the hand of the Templers had forced a group of magi to say enough was enough. They turned to Blood Magic as they believed it would best help them win. The Chantry not Blood Magic caused the event to happen. The last event I can remember is in the Solder’s Peak DLC. The use of Blood Magic within the DLC was self preservement; yes terrible things were done using Blood Magic with in DLC, but its not like the other schools aren’t capable of equal evil.

The Chantry has a number of terrible practices especially when it comes to Mages within the world of Dragon Age Origins. First the hunting of apostates, then the general treatment of magi within the circle, and their general attitude toward magic itself. Apostates are all made out to be evil magi out to turn people into toads or carry people off to be stewed within the game. There are individuals like Flemeth that may actually fit this description, but most apostates are merely magi that don’t want to be controlled by the Chantry, and you can’t blame them as the First Enchanter states himself the Chantry would make them all tranquil if they could and call it mercy. If you listen in to Wynne’s conversations with Alistair the Chantry’s abuse of magi and its extent becomes clear. I don’t in any way take the baby stealing, murdering, and psychotically devoted Chantry as a fair source of morality within Dragon Age.

[TriggerHappy64]

Funny, I never mentioned the chantry in my argument so I'm not sure why you're taking this discussion there. There are many organizations who make unethical choices in the world of Dragon Age and I never made any judgments using the Chantry as my moral basis. It's rather naïve to make that assumption.



Your post is quite full of spoilers there too, but I will try to entertain you nonetheless Saying that the chantry is responsible for what happens and not the mages is quite a stretch. While I do not care for how the chantry operates in relation to magic in the world, the effects of blood magic in that instance are the reason those events transpire there. Once again you betray that your argument is "the end justify the means," therefore, as a retaliation to already unethical acts (the Chantry abuse) the mages are therefore justified in using even more unethical practices? You are essentially proposing that an infinite sequence of unethical choices and acts are justified, each in retaliation to the previous act, in order to create some kind of "positive" change, which would, from the nature of the chain of events, never actually transpire. That same logic you are proposing could be applied to the Chantry, who in their view are controlling magic to prevent the corruption that occurred with the Tevinter Imperium. From that point of view, any of their actions should appear to be justified as well as a retaliation against the murdering of innocents by the Tevinter Imperium.



As for the type of magic that blood magic is, I already explained how this is different from other forms of magic. No one is arguing that other types of magic are not equally destructive or capable of evil, but according to the game and the dragon age wikki, blood magic "is so rare in Thedas now that it can now only be learned from contacting a demon, thus risking becoming an abomination." If collaborating with the malicious spirits of the fade to obtain power does not fall under your definition of evil, immoral, unethical or whatever word or basis you so choose, I don't see the point in continuing this conversation as we will just have to agree to disagree.

[Malfurus]

Luc0s wrote...

Maybe I got it all wrong, but people here in this topic seem to forget that Blood Magic isn't something demonic. Teaching Blood Magic wasn't always limited to only demons.

If I'm not mistaken humanity discovered Blood Magic themselves and taught it to other people just like all the other magic schools. However, after Blood Magic became illegal, it has become a forgotten art, and today, the only likely way to learn Blood Magic is from a demon. But that doesn't mean Blood Magic is evil and demonic.

Dude, you're almost close but not all the way man. I may be wrong, but I believe it was the Old Gods who taught Blood Magic to the Tevinter Imperium Mages. 

And guys, YOU may create a character in the game that uses Blood Magic and is Neutral/Good, but in the Game, those who have used it or use it are evil, every single time. I have yet to meet someone who uses it for "good" purposes except the RP Character you may be playing. And its different than "Drain Life" etc, because you're not sacrificing anyone else's blood to do it, you're drawing your power from the Fade, if you use it for good or bad up to you. But with Blood Magic, you WILL have to sacrifice blood and eventually lives, because the more complex and powerful the spell, the mroe blood it requires. And come on, RP senses, do you truly think anyone who dwells in such dark magic to begin with is just gonna be satisfied with simple one person sacrifices? No, they'll get a bunch of Elven slaves like in the Alienage and voila, you've got yourself a dead bunch and a powerful spell. 

Plus, like mentioned before, I don't like how I can make Wynne a blood mage and not have any objections to it. Sure people can say "Well, don't make her a blood mage." But thats not what I'm referring to, I want to see some responses based on my actions etc...you know what I mean?

Modifié par Malfurus, 14 avril 2010 - 08:22 .