1009 réponses à ce sujet

[DirtyPhoenix]

The way I see it, if you wanna be absolutely sure of the result, or don't trust the catalyst, pick refuse. Every coloured choice is as (un)knowable as the other.

[Kabooooom]

pirate1802 wrote...

The way I see it, if you wanna be absolutely sure of the result, or don't trust the catalyst, pick refuse. Every coloured choice is as (un)knowable as the other.

I just hate how trite Refuse feels. I still pick it because I prefer an ending where the galaxy fails and everyone dies, but I just headcanon the Catalyst out of it, unfortunately. Or let myself get shot by Marauder Shields.

[ziloe]

Kabooooom wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

The way I see it, if you wanna be absolutely sure of the result, or don't trust the catalyst, pick refuse. Every coloured choice is as (un)knowable as the other.

I just hate how trite Refuse feels. I still pick it because I prefer an ending where the galaxy fails and everyone dies, but I just headcanon the Catalyst out of it, unfortunately. Or let myself get shot by Marauder Shields.

If that's the case, you'd be better off just turning off the game, after the beautiful cinematic between you and Anderson.

Modifié par ziloe, 24 décembre 2012 - 06:17 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Synthesis is what Saren wanted... and Shepard killed Saren for wanting it...

just sayin' //trollface

[AlanC9]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Synthesis is what Saren wanted... and Shepard killed Saren for wanting it...

just sayin' //trollface

Yep. Shepard was wrong all along.

[Ieldra]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
Synthesis is what Saren wanted... and Shepard killed Saren for wanting it...

just sayin' //trollface

No, Shepard killed Saren for wanting to bring the Reapers back. The idea for "the strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither" is a side issue in that conversation.

[ElSuperGecko]

Synthesis, in a nutshell (courtesy of our buddy Harbinger):

I AM THE HARBINGER OF YOUR PERFECTION.

RELENQUISH YOUR FORM TO US.

YOUR WORLDS WILL BECOME OUR LABORATORIES.

EVOLUTION CANNOT BE STOPPED.

WE ARE YOUR GENETIC DESTINY.

and of course, not forgetting le grande kicker...

THE OUTCOME IS INEVITABLE. THEY WILL SUCCUMB AND ASCEND... OR THEY WILL BE ANNIHILATED.


edit:  Oh, and while I'm at it:  watch this.

See that clip? That vision was a warning. A warning about the Reapers, and a warning about Synthesis.

Now. Let's take another close look. At approximately five seconds in.

See that? That horrible, screaming, stretching, opening fleshy thing with wires in it?

That's a vagina. That's right. That's a vagina in Synthesis.  Merry Christmas.

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 24 décembre 2012 - 10:42 .

[Kataphrut94]

I picked Synthesis once. Everything worked out fine, so I don't know what people are upset about. The idea of trans-synthetic hybrids may not sound like a particularly appealing prospect, but isn't the kind of horrible Borg-style cybernetic assimilation horror that everyone seems to think it is. It's really just giving everyone a few shiny circuit boards and neural implants which screw with the Reapers perceptions and make them think we've solved their stupid problem for them. Since that's apparently enough to make them stop attacking and start helping us clean up the mess they made, who's to complain about it?

Also consider the fact that synthetic implants and similar modifciations are fairly commonplace in the Mass Effect universe and our very own Commander Shepard has synthetic implants which do not interfere with his personality or physical appearance (Renegade facial scarring notwithstanding) and only provide a few handy physical benefits, I think it's safe to say that Synthesis isn't as terrible as people like to think it is. If you're happy with committing genocide or starting up a benevolent dictatorship then more power to you, but the transhumanism option works out just as well in the end.

[jstme]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

I picked Synthesis once. Everything worked out fine, so I don't know what people are upset about. The idea of trans-synthetic hybrids may not sound like a particularly appealing prospect, but isn't the kind of horrible Borg-style cybernetic assimilation horror that everyone seems to think it is. It's really just giving everyone a few shiny circuit boards and neural implants which screw with the Reapers perceptions and make them think we've solved their stupid problem for them. Since that's apparently enough to make them stop attacking and start helping us clean up the mess they made, who's to complain about it?

Also consider the fact that synthetic implants and similar modifciations are fairly commonplace in the Mass Effect universe and our very own Commander Shepard has synthetic implants which do not interfere with his personality or physical appearance (Renegade facial scarring notwithstanding) and only provide a few handy physical benefits, I think it's safe to say that Synthesis isn't as terrible as people like to think it is. If you're happy with committing genocide or starting up a benevolent dictatorship then more power to you, but the transhumanism option works out just as well in the end.

For the gozillionth time,Synthesis is not transhumanism since it effects and alters all (as in - ALL) organic life. From bacteria to Asari. 
And as you mentioned, impants are wide spread in the ME galaxy prior to green wave. Transhumanism (and transkroganism and transhanaris and even transyahgaism with the help of transsalrians) is allready happening.
Synthesis however is forced replacement of ALL organic life with some new hybrid form of existance on the galactical scale. And the only reason for this is that the reaper king just found a new solution and convinced Shepard to take the blame for it.
"It cannot be forced", lol. 

[ElSuperGecko]

jstme wrote...
And the only reason for this is that the reaper king just found a new solution and convinced Shepard to take the blame for it.  "It cannot be forced", lol. 

Yes, indeedy.  "It cannot be forced... so would you kindly go on and force it on everyone/everything for us?  Thank you ever so much."

People seem to forget that Synthesis is not Shepard's idea.  Or Anderson's, or Hackett's, or even TIM's.  It's not a solution proposed by any of your collegues, allies, friends or love interests.

No, it's a solution proposed by the Catalyst itself.  The intelligence that saw fit to exterminate it's own creators, start the cycle of extinction and a being that doesn;t see anything wrong with ruthlessly butchering billions of innocent lives every 50,000 years or so.  An intelligence that apparently feels no emotions or empathy for organic life at all.

We saw first-hand how horrifying the Catalyst's original solution was - it is what we've been fighting to avoid for the last three games, after all.  Why are people suddenly willing to accept that it's new solution will be any better?  And don't give me that "you have changed the variables" crap - the Catalyst still sees nothing wrong with it's previous actions, other than the fact that they failed.

[Kataphrut94]

jstme wrote...

Kataphrut94 wrote...

I picked Synthesis once. Everything worked out fine, so I don't know what people are upset about. The idea of trans-synthetic hybrids may not sound like a particularly appealing prospect, but isn't the kind of horrible Borg-style cybernetic assimilation horror that everyone seems to think it is. It's really just giving everyone a few shiny circuit boards and neural implants which screw with the Reapers perceptions and make them think we've solved their stupid problem for them. Since that's apparently enough to make them stop attacking and start helping us clean up the mess they made, who's to complain about it?

Also consider the fact that synthetic implants and similar modifciations are fairly commonplace in the Mass Effect universe and our very own Commander Shepard has synthetic implants which do not interfere with his personality or physical appearance (Renegade facial scarring notwithstanding) and only provide a few handy physical benefits, I think it's safe to say that Synthesis isn't as terrible as people like to think it is. If you're happy with committing genocide or starting up a benevolent dictatorship then more power to you, but the transhumanism option works out just as well in the end.

For the gozillionth time,Synthesis is not transhumanism since it effects and alters all (as in - ALL) organic life. From bacteria to Asari. 
And as you mentioned, impants are wide spread in the ME galaxy prior to green wave. Transhumanism (and transkroganism and transhanaris and even transyahgaism with the help of transsalrians) is allready happening.
Synthesis however is forced replacement of ALL organic life with some new hybrid form of existance on the galactical scale. And the only reason for this is that the reaper king just found a new solution and convinced Shepard to take the blame for it.
"It cannot be forced", lol. 

Transhumanism was just a poor choice of words on my part. I understand it works on everything.

It also does not "replace" life - the same life still exists and all the intelligent beings in the galaxy retain their minds and emotions and everything else that makes them "them". You phrase "some new hybrid form of existance" like we've created a brace of monsters, but all I've seen is the same people existing exactly as they were before the Crucible fired. The only difference is the Reapers are no longer attacking, the synthetics can feel this emotion known as love and the organics all look the same except for a few facial markings no different to how Renegade Shepard would look if his scars were green.

It's all a bit silly and saccharine, but that's the series for you. I still fail to see how it is an abomination, as the title of the thread would indicate, since these are ultimately positive things and it's a perfectly valid solution given the alternatives are genocide, benevolent despotism and being a self-righteous coward.

[jstme]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

jstme wrote...

Kataphrut94 wrote...

I picked Synthesis once. Everything worked out fine, so I don't know what people are upset about. The idea of trans-synthetic hybrids may not sound like a particularly appealing prospect, but isn't the kind of horrible Borg-style cybernetic assimilation horror that everyone seems to think it is. It's really just giving everyone a few shiny circuit boards and neural implants which screw with the Reapers perceptions and make them think we've solved their stupid problem for them. Since that's apparently enough to make them stop attacking and start helping us clean up the mess they made, who's to complain about it?

Also consider the fact that synthetic implants and similar modifciations are fairly commonplace in the Mass Effect universe and our very own Commander Shepard has synthetic implants which do not interfere with his personality or physical appearance (Renegade facial scarring notwithstanding) and only provide a few handy physical benefits, I think it's safe to say that Synthesis isn't as terrible as people like to think it is. If you're happy with committing genocide or starting up a benevolent dictatorship then more power to you, but the transhumanism option works out just as well in the end.

For the gozillionth time,Synthesis is not transhumanism since it effects and alters all (as in - ALL) organic life. From bacteria to Asari. 
And as you mentioned, impants are wide spread in the ME galaxy prior to green wave. Transhumanism (and transkroganism and transhanaris and even transyahgaism with the help of transsalrians) is allready happening.
Synthesis however is forced replacement of ALL organic life with some new hybrid form of existance on the galactical scale. And the only reason for this is that the reaper king just found a new solution and convinced Shepard to take the blame for it.
"It cannot be forced", lol. 

Transhumanism was just a poor choice of words on my part. I understand it works on everything.

It also does not "replace" life - the same life still exists and all the intelligent beings in the galaxy retain their minds and emotions and everything else that makes them "them". You phrase "some new hybrid form of existance" like we've created a brace of monsters, but all I've seen is the same people existing exactly as they were before the Crucible fired. The only difference is the Reapers are no longer attacking, the synthetics can feel this emotion known as love and the organics all look the same except for a few facial markings no different to how Renegade Shepard would look if his scars were green.

It's all a bit silly and saccharine, but that's the series for you. I still fail to see how it is an abomination, as the title of the thread would indicate, since these are ultimately positive things and it's a perfectly valid solution given the alternatives are genocide, benevolent despotism and being a self-righteous coward.

I am sorry that i am quoting myself (and from this very thread - again, sorry) quoting Catalyst ,but it is needed.
This is what we know about Synthesis:

 "Add your energy to the crucible's. The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework. a new DNA"
 "The energy of the crucible released in this way will alter the matrix of all organic life in the galaxy..... organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology..... "
 "Synthesis is the final evolution of all life"

Add to it tree leaves with "green Shepard's facial markings".
Nothing changed? Exactly the same people only with different DNA and altered matrix of organic life?
I see totally different picture. 

Modifié par jstme, 24 décembre 2012 - 11:42 .

[ioannisdenton]

What did i miss?? been playing batman arkham city. It stomps over mass effect 3.
On topic: Synthesis is a paraphilology.
Synthesis is space magic.
Synthesis is one of the reasons Me3 is a BAD game.
Synthesis destroyed the scifi aspect of ME
Synthesis destroyed the diversity and unity of different species themes
Only good thing Synthesis has is the music which is awesome.
People who like Synthesis have no place in here in these forums; were they playing Mass effect all this time??
Mass effect has been everything else BUT from synthesis.
my 2 cents.

[ioannisdenton]

what the hell is SYNTHETIC DNA??
Someone should get fired. Synthetic DNA is not sci-fi but space-fantasy.
Space fantasy is totally fine but ME decided to become spacefantasy in the last ten minutes!!!!!!

[jstme]

ioannisdenton wrote...

what the hell is SYNTHETIC DNA??
Someone should get fired. Synthetic DNA is not sci-fi but space-fantasy.
Space fantasy is totally fine but ME decided to become spacefantasy in the last ten minutes!!!!!!

Yeah, it was funny line,indeed. But they changed it in the EC. 

[Archonsg]

Ah yes, Synthesis, where a solar flare or EMP detonation will kill every single living being. Even plants. Yes, let's foist this on every single living thing.

[Rifneno]

Wayning_Star wrote...

the obvious points missed is that you cannot actually 'kill' a reaper, only kind of knock them out. If you totally destroy one, you eliminate it's cargo and data stores, that is, those reaped parish, not the reaper, it's within the catalyst. The reapers do only that(bad enough tho) they reap/harvest. But destroying or controlling them is folly. In practical terms, the only way to stop the cycle and end the reaper threat is to assimilate them, via synthesis. That the simplest explanation for it. In synthesis, 'everyone' is over lord, and If everyone is overlord, then there are NO thralls..even the Leviathan are nutralized.

Organic Leviathan started the ME quest, Shep is the human organic to spell out the fini.

There are other forces at work in the MEU, and the crucible and choices menu is the tell. Who designed it and who figured out the choices menu? The mystery of it is still out there.

( the common enemy, if any, is ourselves.. and the canon of ME trilogy.)

LOL. No. Wow. OMG. Even literalists tend to understand that the Reapers are the enemy. You remember them, the nightmares that murder people by the millions? Wiped out thousands and thousands of entire civilizations? That should've been your first clue that they're the bad guys. It's a pretty open and shut case.

I mean, holy ****, are you actually telling me you believe Starbinger's "we kill you to stop you from getting yourself killed by the machines that only seem to turn evil if we take control of them and make them evil"? Do you believe everything that mass murderers tell you? Was Charles Manson just really misunderstood too? An unsung hero?

Baldrick67 wrote...

Of course Synthesis does a huge mindwipe on all the galaxy.

How else can you explain the current cycle races working side by side with the very force that just a few seconds ago wanted to turn them into genetic smoothies.

The reapers killed billions of billions of current cycle people, set worlds on FIRE and now its all just fine and dandy.

No one seems to mourn all the dead people. It's as if the pre synthesis people didn't matter as they weren't really alive.

Legion's loyalty mission really hammers the point home: if you change someone to that degree, you've effectively killed who they were. Pretty much all of the crew tell you this. People like Javik would never be okay with synthesis. Yet they are apparently fine with it in the shown ending. Here's some quotes from ME2 crew about the choice at Heretic Station:

Changing their personality's the same as killing them. Who they are is gone.
Either way, what makes these geth individuals dies.
Either way, the heretics are wiped out. Killed or remade. What's the difference?
There's no moral difference between the two.
If you change who someone is, how they think, you have killed them. They will be something new in the same body.
If you change who the heretics are, you've "killed" them. Killed their perspective.
If you screwed with my head, made me nod and smile at everything... I'd rather you blew my head off. Let me die as me.
They're killed both ways. Take away their fighting spirit, what else matters?

In a way, synthesis kills everyone. Talk about destroy being genocide, but at least it's not omnicide. People who pick it out of some misguided attempt at preserving lives have missed the point. What's that old saying about the worst deeds from the best intentions? Perfect description of synthesis.

[ElSuperGecko]

Rifneno wrote...
In a way, synthesis kills everyone. Talk about destroy being genocide, but at least it's not omnicide. People who pick it out of some misguided attempt at preserving lives have missed the point. What's that old saying about the worst deeds from the best intentions? Perfect description of synthesis.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Synthesis seems like a close approximation of hell to me.  It certainly must look that way from the point of view of the husks in the EC ending videos...

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 24 décembre 2012 - 12:46 .

[JPR1964]

+1 OP

But not exactly for the same reason : I just don't like too much space magic in my space magic...

An AI with so much power with such a dumb solution like the reaper waiting the right person it tried to kill before many times to make synthesis...

Pfewwww...

What a pile of craphorse...

JPR out!

[Ieldra]

jstme wrote...

Kataphrut94 wrote...

I picked Synthesis once. Everything worked out fine, so I don't know what people are upset about. The idea of trans-synthetic hybrids may not sound like a particularly appealing prospect, but isn't the kind of horrible Borg-style cybernetic assimilation horror that everyone seems to think it is. It's really just giving everyone a few shiny circuit boards and neural implants which screw with the Reapers perceptions and make them think we've solved their stupid problem for them. Since that's apparently enough to make them stop attacking and start helping us clean up the mess they made, who's to complain about it?

Also consider the fact that synthetic implants and similar modifciations are fairly commonplace in the Mass Effect universe and our very own Commander Shepard has synthetic implants which do not interfere with his personality or physical appearance (Renegade facial scarring notwithstanding) and only provide a few handy physical benefits, I think it's safe to say that Synthesis isn't as terrible as people like to think it is. If you're happy with committing genocide or starting up a benevolent dictatorship then more power to you, but the transhumanism option works out just as well in the end.

For the gozillionth time,Synthesis is not transhumanism since it effects and alters all (as in - ALL) organic life. From bacteria to Asari. 
And as you mentioned, impants are wide spread in the ME galaxy prior to green wave. Transhumanism (and transkroganism and transhanaris and even transyahgaism with the help of transsalrians) is allready happening.
Synthesis however is forced replacement of ALL organic life with some new hybrid form of existance on the galactical scale. And the only reason for this is that the reaper king just found a new solution and convinced Shepard to take the blame for it.
"It cannot be forced", lol.

Actually, Synthesis *is* centered on the theme of transapience. It was apparent from the start and it's even more obvious if you know the leaked script and the EC. The scenario we got is meant to imply that from now on life will grow naturally into it since it now has biochemistry that facilitates the integration of technology - a function that remains unused in non-technological species.

Could it have been done without that "forced upon everyone"? Of course it could, and I wish it were. What the writers did is force upon it an aspect that makes it morally questionable, just like the death of the synthetics in Destroy. Only while the death of the synthetics is at least thematically compatible (I'll go into that in a separate thread tomorrow), the forced aspect goes against the spirit of transapience as an idea, almost to the degree that it destroys all of its appeal. Well, cut the "almost" for all too many players. 

What I'm doing is use the theme and interpret the implementation to my liking. While others add bad stuff to the endings against the EC epilogue, I've been adding good stuff to the ending against the OE until we got the EC. Too bad the "forced" aspect didn't change, but Synthesis got significantly less nonsensical and less prone to bad interpretations with the EC. For the rest.... in my games it's my ME universe. I can reasonably set any outcome that doesn't contradict what the EC shows me, and I want it to be reasonably good. Why others want things to be bad, that escapes me.

Oh, and the Reaper presence in post-Synthesis civilization is a separate theme. I'm tempted to call it "Anti-Lovecraft". More about that in that later thread.  

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 décembre 2012 - 01:01 .

[Reorte]

pirate1802 wrote...

The way I see it, if you wanna be absolutely sure of the result, or don't trust the catalyst, pick refuse. Every coloured choice is as (un)knowable as the other.

Refuse is definitely bad. The only point in picking one of the options is the question of "Well, it might work, and could it actually make anything worse?" As it turns out the answer is "yes" if you take the very, very long view but since that relies on something so wildly far-fetched that you have to question the sanity of whoever thought of putting it in there it's reasonable enough not to have considered that.

[Rifneno]

Reorte wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

The way I see it, if you wanna be absolutely sure of the result, or don't trust the catalyst, pick refuse. Every coloured choice is as (un)knowable as the other.

Refuse is definitely bad. The only point in picking one of the options is the question of "Well, it might work, and could it actually make anything worse?" As it turns out the answer is "yes" if you take the very, very long view but since that relies on something so wildly far-fetched that you have to question the sanity of whoever thought of putting it in there it's reasonable enough not to have considered that.

Refuse was probably added because so many people complained that they couldn't just tell Starbinger to go embrace eternity with himself.  People wanted the option, a lot, so they gave it to them.  Even if it really, really sucks.

[ElSuperGecko]

Yep, refuse is definitely and immediately bad news, for everyone who trusts and relies on Shepard.

Basically it's allowing the Reapers to go "omnomnomnomnomnom" on this cyclem when the options to stop them are right there in front of you.

[Urdnot_Bucdawg]

I never liked the synthesis ending before. After playing ME1 from the PSN store confirmed my dislike after hearing Saren speaking to Shepard on Virmire and later the Citadel. Synthesis is EXACTLY the reapers ultimate goal fusing organic and machine to a new life form! So, after everything Shepard undergoes, friends lost, umpteen choices made just to give the reapers what they always wanted ?!?!?! After that, Destroy was my ONLY choice for me!

[sunnydxmen]

synthesis rules.